What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion. — Page 21

The best duels are ones where the duelists have some major personal history and backstory that led to the duel happening in the first place. That’s why the duels in ESB and ROTJ are always the best. In ESB, you have Luke fighting the man who killed his father (or so he believes), and in ROTJ you have a son fighting his own father. Only the duel in Revenge of the Sith, where you had a former student fighting his former mentor and friend, even had the potential to surpass the Luke/Vader duels. But unfortunately, since the Prequel movies failed to establish a compelling relationship between Anakin and Obi-Wan, the duel itself is just empty and over-compensates with CGI lava effects and John Williams.

I mean, John Williams could score anything and it would be awesome. A movie scene showing somebody doing their taxes set to a John Williams score would be amazing. Let’s call it “Tax Season II: The Accounting Begins”, with music by John Williams.

I think a handful of eruption shots are probably minor compared to the huge amount of liquid lava, floating droids, and collapsing machines in that sequence. Although to be fair some miniatures were also built for real.

Spartacus01 said:

Channel72 said:

ESB, you have Luke fighting the man who killed his father (or so he believes), and in ROTJ you have a son fighting his own father.

However, it should also be pointed out that Luke did not interact with Vader at all in The Empire Strikes Back, nor did Vader have any particularly special relationship with Luke up to that point. The only thing Vader knew about Luke was that he was his son, but the two had no meaningful connection, and prior to that duel, Luke had never even spoken to him. Therefore, all the tension in that duel exists solely because you, the viewer, imagine what the two of them might be feeling in that moment. Which is essentially the same as imagining Anakin and Obi-Wan having more positive interactions off-screen compared to the ones that were actually shown in Attack of the Clones.

Revenge-based motivation doesn’t require so much previously established on-screen interactions. See e.g. stuff like Kill Bill vol 2, the Princess Bride, etc. “You killed my father, prepare to die” is all you really need before the part where “they fight”. (Although, some previous on-screen interaction can certainly only improve things.) Whereas, when you have two former friends (or a student/mentor) and one friend betrays the other, you need some mother fucking fleshed out details and some footage of the “good times” before the part where “they fight”.

Regardless, your criticism of Empire Strikes Back is essentially valid. More prior interactions between Luke and Vader (apart from the Battle of Yavin and Luke fighting Vader’s apparition in the cave) would only help to improve the duel, but it’s not as crucial as in the Kenobi/Anakin case.

Channel72 said:

CGI lava effects

The lava was not created using CGI. Footage was taken from Mount Etna — a real volcano located in Sicily, Italy — and then composited into the background. The only CGI related to the lava involved the instances where it rains down just a few inches away from them. Otherwise, the scenes used real footage of Mount Etna. Furthermore, there are not many alternative ways to simulate such a scenario other than CGI and real imagery pasted in the background, as there are not exactly many practical effects capable of convincingly simulating lava, and it is not like you can start throwing real lava at the actors.

Right. CGI lava effects.

Also, “practical lava effects” wouldn’t really improve anything here anyway. The criticism is about over-indulgence of spectacle to compensate for lack of actual drama, not about practical VFX vs. CGI. The Darth Maul fight in Phantom Menace arguably has the same problem, except instead of excessive CGI lava plumes they used the London Symphony Chorus.

A film should work within itself regardless of what Episode it is or something. ROTS is quite competent at establishing their relationship and what is it that falls apart - ditto for Anakin!s relationship to Padmé. Not a surprise it was reviewed more positively than all other Lucas SW films upon release - with the exception of the original.

Omni said:

A film should work within itself regardless of what Episode it is or something. ROTS is quite competent at establishing their relationship and what is it that falls apart - ditto for Anakin!s relationship to Padmé. Not a surprise it was reviewed more positively than all other Lucas SW films upon release - with the exception of the original.

Well, establishing what “it is” and the audience actually experiencing and feeling it…are two different things. And I wouldn’t say Episode 3 does the job well considering Anakin and Obiwan separate on their own missions for a majority of the film. Obi-Wan isn’t even present during the whole “turn” and major plays that went down on Coruscant. Obi-Wan basically fights him just because he’s on an assigned Jedi mission from Yoda to take out the “other half” of the Sith duo situation. I think it’s a stretch to say ROTS stands on its own. And these movies KNOW they are parts of a trilogy. Return of the Jedi doesn’t really stand on its own.

Can someone explain why everyone thinks Mace is this badass lightsaber duelist. He went out in a very weak way. Blown out a window due to unlimited power. After Anakin chopped his hand off.

JadedSkywalker said:

Can someone explain why everyone thinks Mace is this badass lightsaber duelist. He went out in a very weak way. Blown out a window due to unlimited power. After Anakin chopped his hand off.

To be fair the power was unlimited

SparkySywer said:

JadedSkywalker said:

Can someone explain why everyone thinks Mace is this badass lightsaber duelist. He went out in a very weak way. Blown out a window due to unlimited power. After Anakin chopped his hand off.

To be fair the power was unlimited

Speaking of which someone should do a Wicked Star Wars edit where instead of Palpatine shouting, Unlimited Power, he starts singing Unlimited from Wicked’s Defying Gravity instead. Or am I the only one who’d find this funny?

JadedSkywalker said:

Can someone explain why everyone thinks Mace is this badass lightsaber duelist. He went out in a very weak way. Blown out a window due to unlimited power. After Anakin chopped his hand off.

It’s just a classic case of “telling instead of showing”. We all have this idea in our heads that Mace Windu is supposed to be a “badass lightsaber duelist” because of meta-contextual info like Samuel Jackson’s prior career and his role in things like Pulp Fiction where he’s very intense and says awesome shit. The only actual “showing” of his skills in the Prequels is when he decapitates Jango Fett (which I admit is cool) and when he fights Palpatine and (presumably) wins. But even the Palpatine fight never registered to me as particularly compelling, because the fight choreography between an aging Ian McDiarmid and Samuel Jackson was sort of clunky and relied on strategic editing to make it appear less ridiculous.

All of this is reflective of George Lucas’ overall bad creative choices: a character like Palpatine, who represents a “wicked sorcerer” and “evil mastermind” archetype, should not be doing backflips in a nicely furnished office. He should be sitting behind his desk, adopting a Monty Burns pose, and saying delightfully evil things while dominating everyone with Force powers that don’t require him to get up.

I like to think of Palpatine as the evil Kenobi, I don’t know what George’s plan was, one is the evil father and is the good father. The best aspect of the prequels is the story it tells visually and with music, the dialog and acting are often the things that pull it down. You do have standout moments like the opera scene but they are few and far between.

I also think Ewan did a good job with you were the chosen one speech.

I actually like some of the derided goofier moments in Attack of the Clones, they bring levity and fun to a very wooden movie. And yeah the duel between Dooku and Anakin and Obi-Wan is mostly good. But then you have cartoon Yoda fighting Dooku.

I can just watch the 4K UHD. I’m happy for the prequel fans who want to go see it as a group and have a communal experience.

I don’t go to the movies anymore, and i used to go once a week when i was in High School. The media environment is so different now so many films on streaming, so many quick to physical release after theatrical Blu-Ray and UHD, and so many digital first offerings.

The force awakens is likely to be the last film I saw in cinema multiple times and dropped well over a hundred dollars on in tickets. Covid closed my favorite Cinema. The only other alternative is a dirty theater with cheap uncomfortable seats.

oojason said:

This isn’t too surprising considering they’ve done this for the previous 2 Prequel films
 

Did AotC get a re-release?

Fang Zei said:

oojason said:

This isn’t too surprising considering they’ve done this for the previous 2 Prequel films
 

Did AotC get a re-release?

I don’t remember that one but then TPM got a 25th anniversary one last year just to be confusing. Maybe it’s a pandemic timing thing. Or in the case of this year a cash thing.