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The Last Jedi: Legendary (Released) — Page 48

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That’s just it, evidently those lost students have nothing to do with the Knights of Ren according to canon, although I think that was RJ’s intentions with that dialogue. I imagine he’d have had the scene go about as we have it in V5 were the Knights of Ren not introduced as a concept in TFA.

The comic book that shows what happened right after the slaughter appears to retcon this and tuck the inconsistencies away.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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Jar Jar Bricks said:

I’m actually trying to edit the two deleted caretaker scenes into this edit, Muffy. An additional benefit is that Luke’s changed line is reverted back to v4. Just trying to make the audio pops go away currently.

EDIT: Also, I realize Snoke’s line about destroying the whole island is missing in this edit with the idea of the caretakers not existing, but honestly I think that scene works better without that particular line to begin with. It just feels kinda clunky.

I would’nt normally go with an alternate version of a fanditors work but I personally feel that 3rd lesson adds so much more to Lukes mindset plus still having Snoke not targeting the island specificity is a good thing 👍.

Also its nice to have a canon version of Hals quality edit with caretakers as who knows they may be referenced in future Starwars material.

“We Are What They Grow Beyond” - Yoda


My Prefered Saga Viewing Preference:
Ep. III - Revenge of the Sith Special Edition (StankPac Edit) * Rogue One - A Star Wars Story (Hal 9000 Edit)
Ep. IV - A New Hope D+77 (OohTeeDee Edit) * Ep. V - Empire Strikes Back D+80 (OohTeeDee Edit)
Ep. VI - Return of The Jedi OTD83 (OohTeeDee Edit) * Ep. VII - The Force Awakens Restructured (Hal 9000 Edit)
Ep. VIII - The Last Jedi Legendary (Hal 9000 Edit) * Ep. IX - The Rise of Skywalker Ascendant (Hal 9000 Edit)

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Hal 9000 said:

Rey mentions to Luke that the FO will control “all the major systems within weeks.” That’s what I had in mind, anyway.

I like that the movie aknowledges what taking “control of the galaxy” means with that line from Rey, but it never really delves into that, as it’s instead focused on Snoke taking care of the remaining threats before assuming control, so for the crawl I think just saying “control of the galaxy” would be more clear and to the point.

Hal 9000 said:

That’s just it, evidently those lost students have nothing to do with the Knights of Ren according to canon, although I think that was RJ’s intentions with that dialogue. I imagine he’d have had the scene go about as we have it in V5 were the Knights of Ren not introduced as a concept in TFA.

The comic book that shows what happened right after the slaughter appears to retcon this and tuck the inconsistencies away.

The thing is we’re hearing Luke’s perspective of events, who was unconscious while it all happened. He woke up, saw the temple on fire and some of his students dead, so he figured Ben had slaughtered them and left with the others. We know from the rest of the film that Luke’s not a reliable narrator (and that would be doubly true for events he didn’t even witness), that’s the whole point of the flashback scenes so any inconsistency with what “really happened” in some comic isn’t really an issue.

Kylo tells Rey that he “destroyed his temple”, but he never tells his side of what happened with the students, it’s supposed to be left ambiguous and we’re meant to wonder how it all really happened, the fact not all of Luke’s students were “slaughtered” really drives home that we’re not told the whole story. If anything the comic expands on that by revealing the “truth” behind those students that vanished with Ben. Though I don’t really care for the way it was handled, and I also think it’s fair to ignore such ancillary material and headcannon they’re Ren’s Knights or whatever else.

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Oh, I’m not saying it can’t easily make sense that way, just that I sure imagine RJ’s thoughts while writing it were to allow for the “Knights of Ren” Kylo is master of thanks to a line from TFA.

I imagine if TLJ were aware of the eventual canon depiction of the events, it would say, “Ah, well I guess the reason for this turns out differently so forget it.”

My stance on revising fan edits.

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I get that, what I’m saying is there are bigger narrative and thematic implications for that detail in Luke’s story than simply “setting up the origin of the KoR”, whether those students were the KoR or not isn’t really relevant for the story of this movie, but the ambiguity, the moral greyness and the mistery of what happened are. Luke saying “Ben killed everyone” removes that and also hurts Ben/Kylo’s character as a result. You removed Anakin killing children from LoE to help his character, but here the opposite is done by making Luke’s interpretation of events, that Kylo “slaughtered” everyone, seem like the only possible interpretation of what happened.

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Eh, I don’t really see it as much of a statement or alteration of Kylo’s character to go one way or the other on that bit of dialogue. I’m not sure I’ve got much more to say about it, other than that it’s not something I feel super passionate about even though it’s appealing to smooth over the ST’s rocky terrain when possible and unintrusive.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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I like the designs of the Caretakers and think their jokes are funny, but, they completely ruin the otherwise great thematic imagery of Luke literally living in the crumbling ruins of an idea that he spiritually leaves at the end.

“It’s like rhymetry. They poem.” - Leorge Gucas

TROS Novelisation: The Faraday Edit, TLJ: Stoic Edition, ROTS: The Faraday Nudge, ROTS Ultracut: Order 66, Kenobi: Faraday Cut, Godzilla Vs Megalon, Godzilla Vs Gigan, Godzilla: Final Wars, The Light Rises, Faraday Jr.'s Star Wars

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Thing is, they aren’t exactly crumbling. In fact, they’re in remarkably good condition considering the fact that they were likely built thousands of generations ago.

Thus exactly why the Caretakers were invented.

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Sure, but like, all I’m saying is that realistically speaking there would be nothing but some weathered bricks laying around by the time Luke shows up there. Not nearly enough to make the numerous structures we see (and mind you he’d have to do it all by hand without the Force due to his cutting off).

Place probably hasn’t been inhabited for countless generations.

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That is a not-unreasonable take, Jar Jar, but the idea won’t let go of my brain that easily.

You see, the reason why most old castles and ruins on Earth are little more than foundations are because they’ve been robbed out by later inhabitants. If the buildings were merely abandoned they could last for hundreds or thousands of years, as seen with Mayan and Aztec temples. I would imagine that the huts probably would have collapsed over time, but the stones would still be there covered in a growing layer of rain-deposited sediment. If Luke was on the island for a few years it’s easily possible for him to have rebuilt the ones we see in TFA which consist of about two huts and a wall.

All this to say that there’s the potential for an unknown history regarding the island and its unusually pristine structures. Perhaps it was Luke, perhaps it was magic, perhaps it was a race of monastic House Elves which lived on another island and risked attack from violent tribes to keep the relics of a long-forgotten people in working order.

I only wish that the imagination of the viewer would have been given reign over these minor mysteries and reserved explanations for things with true import in the story.

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I remember seeing much more than two buildings. Also, 1000 generations times an average of 100 years is 100,000 years. That’s a lot more than the couple thousand or so years we see for the structures left here on Earth.

Ah well, like you said, this is kind of a moot point.

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The idea that those books would still exist at all is fantastical, and I don’t see how the Caretakers would’ve helped with that.

It’s Star Wars, a world where nothing ever changes unless the camera is currently on it.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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Hal 9000 said:

It’s not something I feel super passionate about even though it’s appealing to smooth over the ST’s rocky terrain when possible and unintrusive.

This doesn’t really smooth over the trilogy, it smooths over TLJ and a series of comics, TROS doesn’t offer an alternative explanation for the KoR’s origins so to someone that only watches the movies there’s no contradiction. They might come off assuming the KoR were once Luke’s students but I don’t see the issue with that, if anything it would help make the KoR feel less bland and pointless in TROS for them. Sure they might go on Wookiepedia, learn of the ‘canon’ explanation and think “well that sucks”, but that’s true of a lot of the ‘canon’ we pick and choose to ignore, such as the caretakers on Ach-to or the Death Star cannons of the Sith Fleet.

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Again, it’s not that it doesn’t make sense, just that it’s cleaner not to open the implication if it wasn’t picked up on later whereas it feels like it was meant to.

I do see your point, and I don’t think there’s an argument to win or lose here.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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That’s fair, I guess the bottom line is that what this change does to TLJ’s narrative bothers me but not you, and the fact it wasn’t expanded upon in TROS bothers you but not me. I mean, there’s so little TROS properly picks up from TLJ and you just have to accept that to enjoy both films, I guess you can argue for “one less thing”, but tbh I appreciate that some things from TLJ, while not “followed up on”, at least where not actively rewritten or undone by TROS. Luke’s confrontation with Ben is something that’s simply not revisited in ep IX, so this change just seems trivial as far as “smoothing over” the trilogy.

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The only moment Kylo and Luke both perceive differently (and both incorrectly) in the flashbacks is basically who turned their lightsaber on first. With this change of only Kylo killing everyone, his reaction to perceiving Luke there as a crazed lunatic trying to murder him is better warranted, almost. Kylo was terrified and alone; perhaps now all of the propaganda Snoke was feeding him just finally rang true for Ben and he had a massive freakout and killed everyone. I still like that better than some random students leaving, I don’t really see the point of even mentioning that detail. Not just because it doesn’t come back to mean anything later, but because it’s better to showcase Kylo did all this by himself. All because of how he saw Luke, and how turned his heart was. At least that’s how I’m seeing it right now, I could change my mind later, maybe.

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I know Rekindled has a No palatine version, does it fit better with a rey nobody trilogy or its ok to go with palatine one in it. Is Legendary fitting to Rey nobody idea

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Legendary borrows some of the more subtle Palpatine things, but nothing explicit. The most explicit is probably hearing palatine laugh as Luke looks into Kylo’s mind during the flashback, but I would’ve interpreted that figuratively had the original been like that.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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bbghost said:

Hal 9000 said:

Also, it would be easy to trim out Rey and Poe’s little meetcute at the end of the movie. They do appear like four feet away from each other at the end of TFA. I can’t remember if this was ever considered.

For my part I always liked this mostly for Poe’s knowing “I know.” I doubt Rey would have introduced herself to him at the end of TFA with what she had going on, but she’s a big deal in the Resistance.

A not insignificant amount of time passes at the end of TFA. She has enough time to put together an entire new custom outfit before she leaves. In that amount of time I don’t think there’s any way that Poe wouldn’t seek out this girl that Finn risked everything for to find and rescue. There’s even a scene where they do meet in the novelization. And Poe is there at the front of the crowd to see Rey off at the end.

So I’m all for cutting their “meeting” at the end of TLJ.

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It appears Mark Hamill has done some audio books. This is good news, because I created Leia’s fantastic voice clone using a similar sample.

Do we have any ideas on something Luke should say?

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Not that I can think of for TLJ. Maaaaybe he could say “lesson three” or something like it for TROS. Even then I’m not sold on the change, so it may not be worth training a whole AI just to try it out.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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Sounds just like Alec Guinness. Would something like, “Luke, take your final step, become one with force, she needs your help” work also or is it too wordy?