Star Wars: The Rise Of Skywalker Redux Ideas thread — Page 172

I agree with both Nev and RogueLeader. That clip is on the right track but the exchange is really weird sounding now.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

So Rey currently claims with Finn that she saw both Kylo and herself on the Sith throne in her vision. This is wrong. Only Rey is seen on the throne in both the theatrical release and Ascendant. And the vision in Ascendant, in my interpretation, represents the two dark paths she could end up on (either with Kylo or the Sith).

Luckily this can be corrected by simply removing Finn’s line: “Ren?”

https://youtu.be/9NRD_G2N5lI

It’s obviously a Force vision Rey had off-screen we didn’t see.

RogueLeader said:

Some already made a version of that scene where Rey just says “Me.” All you have to do is to snip “And” from the audio channel it’s on. And you don’t even have to change her mouth movements at all. It just looks like she is opening her mouth to talk.

Do you know where this is available perhaps? For some reason I had a hard time separating them.

I couldn’t find it so I did it myself real quick (maybe I did this on my own originally…)

https://streamable.com/2v2dd0

“And” being cut might be noticeable to some who are aware of the change, but I honestly believe your hypothetical first time viewer, or people who just haven’t seen the movie since release, wouldn’t even notice this change. I moved “Me” up a few frames earlier, and I think the slight shift helps sell it as well.

I like how Finn assumes it’s Ren with such conviction, only to be left not knowing what to say after Rey says it was her. I think this is the simplest way to handle it.

dgraham414 said:

Wow, I really couldn’t tell that “and” was supposed to be there. It just looks like she’s opening her mouth! This is such a great subtle change.

I agree. Even if you weren’t trying to overhaul Kylo’s character it’s a straight-up improvement over the original. Because now it’s like this: even the father-killing bad guy wasn’t “bad” enough to be on the throne. But Rey was. That hits hard.

Too bad Hal isn’t interested.

RogueLeader said:

I couldn’t find it so I did it myself real quick (maybe I did this on my own originally…)

https://streamable.com/2v2dd0

WOW. That is perfect! I’ll definitely have to use something like this in my personal TROS edit.

RogueLeader said:

I couldn’t find it so I did it myself real quick (maybe I did this on my own originally…)

https://streamable.com/2v2dd0

This is such a small change, but it works flawlessly. Love it!

Remember that the final conflict in the film is Rey alone being tempted to take the throne, while Ben has already had his redemption. So her vision of “Kylo and me on the Throne” would’ve already been negated the moment Kylo turns to the light. It makes so much more sense for Rey’s vision to only be about herself on the throne, then by the end it would actually seem like the vision might become reality.

This is an interesting idea. I’ll need to sit with it and think about how it factors in to the characters throughout the film.

I suppose since I’ve already cut the bit where Kylo tells Rey they’ll kill him and take the throne, this works. I guess if you think about it with the hangar line changes it’s kind of like Kylo is basically saying Palpatine doesn’t matter? I’ve suspected before that his line on the DS “the only way you’re getting to Exegol is with me” was a dub to remove an earlier version where Kylo doesn’t want Rey to go to Exegol at all. Hmm, how might that idea be accomplished?

Actually perhaps most important this change probably makes more sense in terms of my new version of Rey’s backstory.

RogueLeader said:

I couldn’t find it so I did it myself real quick (maybe I did this on my own originally…)

https://streamable.com/2v2dd0

“And” being cut might be noticeable to some who are aware of the change, but I honestly believe your hypothetical first time viewer, or people who just haven’t seen the movie since release, wouldn’t even notice this change. I moved “Me” up a few frames earlier, and I think the slight shift helps sell it as well.

I like how Finn assumes it’s Ren with such conviction, only to be left not knowing what to say after Rey says it was her. I think this is the simplest way to handle it.

Yes! This is perfect. I felt this was how it should have been in the theatrical. I hope Hal uses this in his cut.

DominicCobb said:

This is an interesting idea. I’ll need to sit with it and think about how it factors in to the characters throughout the film.

I suppose since I’ve already cut the bit where Kylo tells Rey they’ll kill him and take the throne, this works. I guess if you think about it with the hangar line changes it’s kind of like Kylo is basically saying Palpatine doesn’t matter? I’ve suspected before that his line on the DS “the only way you’re getting to Exegol is with me” was a dub to remove an earlier version where Kylo doesn’t want Rey to go to Exegol at all. Hmm, how might that idea be accomplished?

Actually perhaps most important this change probably makes more sense in terms of my new version of Rey’s backstory.

These kind of logical questions speak to the frustration I’m having while trying to figure out how to make the Force bond duel scene (and the hangar scene) work in a logical way. Tbf, the original film has these problems too I think.

Okay, so Palpatine tells Kylo to kill Rey because he foresaw her killing him and taking the throne. Okay… so, how does Kylo factor into this? Palpatine tells Kylo that if he kills Rey, that he’ll give him the fleet and let him be the new Emperor. So, is he basically trying to tell Kylo that he wants him as his successor, but not Rey? And Kylo believes that?

The movie makes you think Palpatine is telling Kylo he wants her dead because she’s a Jedi, but when Kylo says, “Because he saw what you would become. You don’t just have power. You have his power” that whole speech makes me think he is referring to this dark power inside her, that she will become evil like Palpatine.

Maybe it’s like this: Palpatine wants Kylo to think he wants Rey dead because she will destroy him and his Empire “as a Jedi”. But, Kylo doesn’t want to kill Rey. He wants to show Rey her power and her inner darkness in order to make her join him and destroy Palpatine together. But if Kylo fails to kill Rey and go full dark side, Palpatine wants Rey to actually be his new vessel (assuming if she kills Kylo instead).

This is why Rey says she has a vision of herself and Ren on the throne together (even though we don’t see it). I guess she is afraid she’ll give in to Ren and join the dark side, because she doesn’t know if she’ll be able to stop Palpatine on her own? But, on Ahch-To, after she has defeated Kylo, she is still afraid that her dark throne vision could come true if she goes to confront Palpatine.

Also, I wonder if Rey’s choices are really differentiated enough in a Rey Nobody version like this. Kylo is basically laying out two choices for her: If you go alone, you’ll kill Palpatine and take the throne (joining the Sith/Dark Side) in order to save your friends. OR, you can join me/the Dark Side and we can kill Palpatine together to save your friends. Like, what is the benefit to join Kylo if he just told her she’s gonna kill Palpatine anyway, with or without him? Why does she need Kylo? Kylo hasn’t told her that he will possess her, so either choice she makes, she’ll kill Palpatine and join the dark side. You can argue that joining Kylo is different, but Kylo is basically Sith in all but name, at least to your casual fan. The only difference is Kylo is saying we can do it together.

I wonder if it would make more sense if Kylo told her that she would join Palpatine? That would explain why she would adamantly say, “I’m going to find Palpatine, and destroy him.” And then when she gets there, she is surprised when he says that he wants her to kill him.

Also, isn’t weird that when Rey says that to Finn, Finn says that doesn’t sound like her? Like, isn’t finding Palpatine and destroying him the plan, though? I guess it was how she said it, since it is implying she wants revenge for him killing her parents? So weird. (This is a scene that I think would be improved in a “Rey killed her parents” scenario, because Rey could tell Finn she killed her parents, and Finn could say that doesn’t sound like her. Idk.)

I just don’t think that her wanting to kill Palpatine for revenge works in a scenario where her parents are bad people, or if her parents are not in the story. That’s why I’m trying to work on a version of the Force bond duel scene where the motivation is replaced by visions of Palpatine/the Final Order killing her friends at the battle of Exegol.

It almost makes me wish they had gone with the original plot. Palpatine tells Kylo to bring Rey to him so that they can turn her, and then Rey and Kylo rule as his successors together as a Sith Dyad. But he secretly just wants to drain their Dyad energy. In a potential edit, you could have Palpatine tell Kylo that he will turn Rey by possessing her, but Kylo doesn’t want that to happen, so he is actively trying to prevent her from reaching Exegol. But I’m sure this version of events would have its own problems.

Bringing Palpatine into this film was just a confusing decision.

EDIT: I did watch your work print again recently, Dom, and I do think it does a great job of making the necessary Rey Nobody changes without drastically changing the film.

Hal 9000 said:

I’m grateful for you and others giving this movie that sort of dedicated thought that I just don’t have any space for anymore.

This is why I chime in or work on projects so sporadically. Sometimes I get the itch to work on this, but then I end up being frustrated with it all over again and spend my free time on other things, until I eventually get that itch again and the cycle repeats.

RogueLeader said:

I couldn’t find it so I did it myself real quick (maybe I did this on my own originally…)

https://streamable.com/2v2dd0

“And” being cut might be noticeable to some who are aware of the change, but I honestly believe your hypothetical first time viewer, or people who just haven’t seen the movie since release, wouldn’t even notice this change. I moved “Me” up a few frames earlier, and I think the slight shift helps sell it as well.

I like how Finn assumes it’s Ren with such conviction, only to be left not knowing what to say after Rey says it was her. I think this is the simplest way to handle it.

The only way I knew that this was edited and it originally said “and” is by reading the comments on this thread. Very good job!

I’ll be honest, I actually do think you can make some logical sense of the original film’s take, even if it’s pretty silly.

Palpatine from the start wants Rey to come to Exegol and take over his spirit. He basically lies to Kylo knowing that he’ll reveal to Rey her backstory which will just make her want to come to Exegol more. Meanwhile he figures that Kylo won’t actually kill her, and even if he does he can just take her place. “You have his power” seems to be more neutrally “you have a lot of power” or something. Even in Kylo’s mind, he doesn’t know about the essence transfer, so if Rey is destined to kill Palpatine then he doesn’t see why Palpatine wouldn’t want to stop it.

Things definitely get more complicated when we start changing things, since most of this logic you kind of have to figure out on your own, it’s not explicitly stated to begin with. I’m gonna have to think this through for sure in terms of where Kylo fits. Is he trying to stop her from killing Palpatine, or is he trying to get her to fulfill the vision. I will say in my version he still doesn’t know about the essence transfer. I kind of like the idea though that he might be trying to stop her regardless. Wonder if we could sneak in a line like “Palpatine is a distraction,” something that gets that point across. So his offer is really more about the dyad thing specifically. I wish we had that oracle scene, apparently it told him about the dyad. Tricky stuff here.

I’m not in love with my bad parents but still revenge solution, but personally I’ve yet to be convinced of a better solution. I don’t believe that Rey having bad parents would be enough to stop her from wanting revenge for their deaths. These are still people she’s been emotionally attached to for almost all of her life, and this is the dark side messing with her mind after all too.

The way I see it, the biggest issue with the way you and I have it RL is that Kylo (regardless of whether he knows of the energy transfer) tells her she’ll kill Palpatine and take the throne. She then immediately says she’s going to kill Palpatine. So what’s going on there? Obviously there’s the revenge on the mind potentially, but she should be worried about killing him? It makes sense for later on Ahch-to but…