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Religion — Page 124

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flametitan said:

suspiciouscoffee said:

I don’t see religion as an overall net positive or negative. It simply is, for better or worse.

That’s pretty much how I feel, too. Thoughts and feelings regarding religion and the church tend to be more individualistic, rather than seeing it as a monolithic entity. I’ve met chill religious folk, and I’ve met radicals. Heck, I’ve met both groups from within the same sect.

It’s true. All of it.

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Here is a positive. I know a couple of people in my church who just lost their son. (I’ve talked about it in the emotional support thread) He had Morquio’s Syndrome. For the 45 years he was alive it slowly ravaged his body. He and his parents had all sorts of difficulties, especially in the last few years of his life. When he died, of course his parents were devastated. Yet they were also filled with hope and joy and had comfort. Why? Because they believe their son is in heaven with the Lord and has new body and is free of all the devastation caused by his Morquio’s. Their son had hope throughout his life because he believed that eventually he would go to be with the Lord and have a new body. I’d call that a positive.

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Warbler said:

Here is a positive. I know a couple of people in my church who just lost their son. (I’ve talked about it in the emotional support thread) He had Morquio’s Syndrome. For the 45 years he was alive it slowly ravaged his body. He and his parents had all sorts of difficulties, especially in the last few years of his life. When he died, of course his parents were devastated. Yet they were also filled with hope and joy and had comfort. Why? Because they believe their son is in heaven with the Lord and has new body and is free of all the devastation caused by his Morquio’s. Their son had hope throughout his life because he believed that eventually he would go to be with the Lord and have a new body. I’d call that a positive.

A net positive’s what’s under discussion here. No one* has denied the positive effect religion can have on the individual/family/etc. (as someone who considers himself religious, I sure wasn’t).

*Mfm possibly excluded.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

Warbler said:

Here is a positive. I know a couple of people in my church who just lost their son. (I’ve talked about it in the emotional support thread) He had Morquio’s Syndrome. For the 45 years he was alive it slowly ravaged his body. He and his parents had all sorts of difficulties, especially in the last few years of his life. When he died, of course his parents were devastated. Yet they were also filled with hope and joy and had comfort. Why? Because they believe their son is in heaven with the Lord and has new body and is free of all the devastation caused by his Morquio’s. Their son had hope throughout his life because he believed that eventually he would go to be with the Lord and have a new body. I’d call that a positive.

A net positive’s what’s under discussion here. No one* has denied the positive effect religion can have on the individual/family/etc. (as someone who considers himself religious, I sure wasn’t).

*Mfm possibly excluded.

I knoq what you were talking about, I just thought I’d give a positive.

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Some day I’ll post the amazing story of my most-religious-ever best friend from high school. Sealed the deal for me, as to why I’ll never become a Christian. It’s a lengthy story so it will take at least an hour of free time to get it all down.

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars

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Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

Some day I’ll post the amazing story of my most-religious-ever best friend from high school. Sealed the deal for me, as to why I’ll never become a Christian. It’s a lengthy story so it will take at least an hour of free time to get it all down.

That bad, huh? I feel you. Most of the religious people I know are chill, but the few bad apples I’ve met really sour the mood on it.

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I don’t think that the positives from believing in something without evidence are worth it.

The Person in Question

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flametitan said:

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

Some day I’ll post the amazing story of my most-religious-ever best friend from high school. Sealed the deal for me, as to why I’ll never become a Christian. It’s a lengthy story so it will take at least an hour of free time to get it all down.

That bad, huh? I feel you. Most of the religious people I know are chill, but the few bad apples I’ve met really sour the mood on it.

No, it’s nothing like that. He’s always been a great guy, still is.

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars

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Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

Some day I’ll post the amazing story of my most-religious-ever best friend from high school. Sealed the deal for me, as to why I’ll never become a Christian. It’s a lengthy story so it will take at least an hour of free time to get it all down.

I’d be interested in reading it.

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Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

flametitan said:

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

Some day I’ll post the amazing story of my most-religious-ever best friend from high school. Sealed the deal for me, as to why I’ll never become a Christian. It’s a lengthy story so it will take at least an hour of free time to get it all down.

That bad, huh? I feel you. Most of the religious people I know are chill, but the few bad apples I’ve met really sour the mood on it.

No, it’s nothing like that. He’s always been a great guy, still is.

That makes me even more interested to read it.

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moviefreakedmind said:

I don’t think that the positives from believing in something without evidence are worth it.

I have found soft evidence for the divine in bouts of synchronicity, in the depth of thought in spirituality and philosophy, and in the universal aspects of morality. I don’t expect my subjective experiences/analyses to win over anyone beyond myself — especially not the committed empiricist — but it’s enough for me to make a leap to faith.

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moviefreakedmind said:

I want to bring something up from a long time ago, when Catbus (who I usually agree with) said that religion was ultimately a net positive. Well, I hope you can look at this discussion and realize that if you’re one of the people that the religion deems an abomination, then religion is far from a net positive. Unless you say religion is good in spite of its negative effect on them. This lie that LGBT people are mentally ill is just one of the many reasons why everybody should condemn this kind of religiosity.

Two things:

When did I ever say that anyone was an abomination? I’ve never believed that anyone was anything less than a person made in the image of God and deserving of love.

Also, I didn’t say “LGBT people are mentally ill.” I said that gender dysphoria is a mental illness. I said nothing about homosexuality or bisexuality.

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flametitan said:

RicOlie_2 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Another example of Christian opposition to freedom:

https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2018/09/anti-lgbtq-protesters-swarmed-library-protest-drag-queen-story-hour/

If you call the normalization of mental illnesses freedom, then sure. Gender dysphoria is contagious among certain segments of the population, so I have a hard time believing that it’s normal and healthy to believe you’re in the wrong body. What happened to telling people to be happy with their body and the way they are?

Oh, buddy… Are you sure you want to have this conversation with me? We’re going to have this conversation. ROGD is a sham based upon a faulty study that was quickly rescinded. In particular, it only ever surveyed the parents of the teens, who have met on a “support forum.” In this context, of course it seemed sudden; teens are notorious for hiding things from their parents, especially if they believe the parents would be unnaccepting of it.

If you asked the teens themselves, they’re going to give you a far different answer. Probably something along the lines of, “It felt like something was off about me for the longest time, but it wasn’t until I met other people like me that I began to piece it all together and accept it.” It’s not that these teens are “catching the Trans,” it’s that they’re starting to meet others and not feel so alone about it.

OK, interesting. There was something in the article I linked to about some of the girls who identified as guys reverting back to identifying as girls after a year or so. I didn’t see an explanation for that in the article you’re linking to (not saying there isn’t one, just that I’m still kind of curious about it).

JEDIT: Oh, and I missed that you typed that out in response to people protesting drag queens. Drag. Queens. Believe it or not, Drag performers are not trans people. Well, not inherently. There are definitely trans people who either enjoy drag, or use it to explore their own feelings of themselves. However, just as many, if not more drag performers are cisgender, and just use drag as a performative art.

Well duh, they’re not necessarily trans people. I may misunderstand their intention, however. I thought the purpose was generally to support people who identify as transgender.

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RicOlie_2 said:

flametitan said:

RicOlie_2 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Another example of Christian opposition to freedom:

https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2018/09/anti-lgbtq-protesters-swarmed-library-protest-drag-queen-story-hour/

If you call the normalization of mental illnesses freedom, then sure. Gender dysphoria is contagious among certain segments of the population, so I have a hard time believing that it’s normal and healthy to believe you’re in the wrong body. What happened to telling people to be happy with their body and the way they are?

Oh, buddy… Are you sure you want to have this conversation with me? We’re going to have this conversation. ROGD is a sham based upon a faulty study that was quickly rescinded. In particular, it only ever surveyed the parents of the teens, who have met on a “support forum.” In this context, of course it seemed sudden; teens are notorious for hiding things from their parents, especially if they believe the parents would be unnaccepting of it.

If you asked the teens themselves, they’re going to give you a far different answer. Probably something along the lines of, “It felt like something was off about me for the longest time, but it wasn’t until I met other people like me that I began to piece it all together and accept it.” It’s not that these teens are “catching the Trans,” it’s that they’re starting to meet others and not feel so alone about it.

OK, interesting. There was something in the article I linked to about some of the girls who identified as guys reverting back to identifying as girls after a year or so. I didn’t see an explanation for that in the article you’re linking to (not saying there isn’t one, just that I’m still kind of curious about it).

JEDIT: Oh, and I missed that you typed that out in response to people protesting drag queens. Drag. Queens. Believe it or not, Drag performers are not trans people. Well, not inherently. There are definitely trans people who either enjoy drag, or use it to explore their own feelings of themselves. However, just as many, if not more drag performers are cisgender, and just use drag as a performative art.

Desistance/detransition is a separate subject, though not entirely unrelated. Detransitioners (people who began transition but then stopped) are rare. However, most of the ones I’m familiar with all support transition, and access to transition care.

Also, note how these stories tend to focus on transmasculine individuals. Transfeminine individuals are conveniently overlooked, despite normally dominating the media discussing trans individuals. Focusing on the AFAB detransitioners supports the narratives of the bigoted, as their reasons for originally desiring transition (sexual trauma or misogyny) play right into the bigot narrative of why trans men exist.
By contrast, when trans women detransition (and they’re more likely to detransistion than transmasculine individuals), it’s usually because they get treated with suspicion and bigotry, compounded with the fear they won’t ever pass and always be seen as visibly trans. More often than not, they’ll also retransition at some point. A mighty inconvenient truth for the people who want to gatekeep transition care.

Desistors, (people who stopped IDing as trans before transition) Some might just be cis (and/or gender nonconforming), but there’s also the chance that they desisted because of the barriers that go into transition. Remember, as a child or teen, the hurdles that get between them and transition is terrifying. Likewise, repression is a common coping tactic among trans people early on, even if they have a supportive family or friend circle. It is especially more likely if you suspect or know that they aren’t supportive.

Well duh, they’re not necessarily trans people. I may misunderstand their intention, however. I thought the purpose was generally to support people who identify as transgender.

  1. The people protesting it in the article don’t seem to realize there’s a difference. More often than not, it tends to work in my favour to assume people don’t get the difference, as well.

  2. Drag is usually not trans support. Heck, Ru Paul, one of the more famous drag queens, is frequently decried for his transphobia. Likewise, terminology that drag performers may use to refer to themselves would be insulting to refer to Trans people as.

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I mean this in the best possible way, but I feel like I just read a chapter of Trans Topics for Cis Dummies. That was a really informative, helpful post, whether you’re really part of this particular discussion or not. Thanks, flametitan!

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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DuracellEnergizer said:

CatBus said:

Trans Topics for Cis Dummies

This needs to be a thread. I’d like to learn more of the trans perspective.

I’ve been meaning to start one for a while, actually, but life has a way of keeping me from doing so.

I’ll get it done when I get back from my prescription pick up.

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flametitan said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

CatBus said:

Trans Topics for Cis Dummies

This needs to be a thread. I’d like to learn more of the trans perspective.

I’ve been meaning to start one for a while, actually, but life has a way of keeping me from doing so.

I’ll get it done when I get back from my prescription pick up.

That would be great.

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‘Museum of the Bible says five of its Dead Sea Scrolls fragments are forgeries’…

Artefacts will no longer be on display after researchers said they show ‘characteristics inconsistent with ancient origin’

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/22/museum-of-the-bible-dead-sea-scrolls-fragments-forgeries-fake
 

A little patience goes a long way on this old-school Rebel base. If you are having issues finding what you are looking for, these will be of some help…

Welcome to the OriginalTrilogy.com | Introduce yourself in here | Useful info within : About : Help : Site Rules : Fan Project Rules : Announcements
How do I do this?’ on the OriginalTrilogy.com; some info & answers + FAQs - includes info on how to search for projects and threads on the OT•com

A Project Index for Star Wars Preservations (Harmy’s Despecialized & 4K77/80/83 etc) : A Project Index for Star Wars Fan Edits (adywan & Hal 9000 etc)

… and take your time to look around this site before posting - to get a feel for this place. Don’t just lazily make yet another thread asking for projects.

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oojason said:

‘Museum of the Bible says five of its Dead Sea Scrolls fragments are forgeries’…

Artefacts will no longer be on display after researchers said they show ‘characteristics inconsistent with ancient origin’

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/22/museum-of-the-bible-dead-sea-scrolls-fragments-forgeries-fake
 

My relatives, evangelical Christians, visited that museum last month. They were very excited to go but were dissapointed. Not terribly interesting or much to see, I’m told. This news makes it even more sad.

The blue elephant in the room.