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Taking a stand against toxic fandom (and other ) — Page 5

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DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

here’s the tweet btw, not a screenshot: https://twitter.com/DeeGoots/status/944080112869183489

Pretty easy to find her explanation of what it was all about if you’re looking through her timeline
https://twitter.com/DeeGoots/status/1017108818658930688?s=20

Don’t know why some fans are so desperate to cherrypick and take out of context and act like they’re being persecuted.

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SilverWook said:

DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

here’s the tweet btw, not a screenshot: https://twitter.com/DeeGoots/status/944080112869183489

Pretty easy to find her explanation of what it was all about if you’re looking through her timeline
https://twitter.com/DeeGoots/status/1017108818658930688?s=20

Don’t know why some fans are so desperate to cherrypick and take out of context and act like they’re being persecuted.

Pretty much.

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DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

here’s the tweet btw, not a screenshot: https://twitter.com/DeeGoots/status/944080112869183489

Pretty easy to find her explanation of what it was all about if you’re looking through her timeline
https://twitter.com/DeeGoots/status/1017108818658930688?s=20

Don’t know why some fans are so desperate to cherrypick and take out of context and act like they’re being persecuted.

It’s a group kneejerk reaction to a group character assassination.

How many of these fans do you think have been accused of being sexist because they don’t like TLJ? We’ve seen it right here on this forum; negative criticisms of TLJ and its characters are brushed aside because the critics are possibly suffering from some latent or subconscious sexist tendencies. It’s condescending and unfounded.

As a result, anyone who appears to be mocking fans is going to have a rough time on social media, deserved or not. If you choose to publicly represent yourself as an employee of the content owner and post anything that can be perceived as mocking the fanbase, best have your guard up.

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MTFBWY…A

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The amount of people painting critics with a broad “sexist” brush is at least as overstated as the amount of critics who are sexist.

And that’s all I’ll say about that because I’m almost certain we’ve had this exact discussion a few weeks ago and I don’t want to repeat it blow by blow.

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DominicCobb said:

The amount of people painting critics with a broad “sexist” brush is at least as overstated as the amount of critics who are sexist.

You could well be right. The problem is that once the sentiment is out there, others start to believe it. And the media is running with the notion because it gets clicks.

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MTFBWY…A

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screams in the void said:

Jay said:

DominicCobb said:

Jay said:

DominicCobb said:

Jay said:

DominicCobb said:

Any comparisons to Gamergate are accurate insofar as the harrasers are concerned (though I haven’t seen these comparisons from LFL employees).

https://twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/1016392684242550784

GamerGate: another great example of using a minority of harassers to paint an entire community with that wide brush and obscure the original criticisms.

Okay, well was I wrong? I’m not seeing the part in that tweet where he says that anyone who hates his movie is a Gamergate level harraser. He’s pretty spot on in the comparison.

Did you read the preceding tweet that he was responding to? It was about ComicsGate, another supposedly hate-driven campaign that’s being used to paint many comics fans with the same brush as GamerGate, with the usual shitstirring by the usual frauds looking for attention/money like Quinn and Sarkeesian.

Maybe he’s not doing it intentionally, but by drawing the comparisons to what’s going on with Star Wars, I find it hard to believe he doesn’t know who and what he’s inviting into the discussion.

You of course have a typically cynical take on these “gates” that I have no desire to get into you with. Putting that aside, whatever you think of the people bring attacked, there is no reason whatsoever to violently harass. And it’s beyond absurd to suggest that one shouldn’t call out violent harassment just for fear that someone else entirely might come in and paint all criticism with a broad brush. I’m sorry I have more sympathy with those getting death threats than those merely getting supposedly generalized. I don’t know why Rian should have to top toe and ignore the issue completely just because of how other people may or may not respond.

Of course no one should violently harass someone else. Duh.

My point is that the result so far in these “gate” stories is that the harassment becomes the story, the broader fanbase is guilty by association (“toxic fandom”), and the original story that kicked everything off is conveniently forgotten or labeled as conspiracy, while the participants supposedly on the side of social justice go on to build massive social media followings and make money from the whole affair.

Rian can bash harassers all he wants, but drawing comparisons to GamerGate and ComicsGate is going to result in the same shitty mess. I don’t want a JediGate.

The original story that compelled me to kick this thread off was the treatment of Kelly Marie Tran , and lets not hurl insults at people such as “duh” and "panties in a bunch " aye ? seems unbecoming of a moderator imho.

It’s doubly unbecoming of the site owner imo.

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Jay said:

DominicCobb said:

The amount of people painting critics with a broad “sexist” brush is at least as overstated as the amount of critics who are sexist.

You could well be right. The problem is that once the sentiment is out there, others start to believe it. And the media is running with the notion because it gets clicks.

Which notion? That all critics are sexist or that all people criticizing sexists are calling all critics sexist?

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DominicCobb said:

Jay said:

DominicCobb said:

The amount of people painting critics with a broad “sexist” brush is at least as overstated as the amount of critics who are sexist.

You could well be right. The problem is that once the sentiment is out there, others start to believe it. And the media is running with the notion because it gets clicks.

Which notion? That all critics are sexist or that all people criticizing sexists are calling all critics sexist?

That critics are “toxic”, with the true origin of their negative feelings being sexism or racism.

DominicCobb said:

Jay said:

screams in the void said:

true , from a certain point of view …https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ao_3jjj_FM

Rumors spread by YouTubers watched only by hardcore fans aren’t the same as Vox/Polygon/etc. articles about the toxic fanbase that get picked up by mainstream media outlets.

Are those articles actually calling the whole fanbase toxic though? Haven’t read.

To their credit, some have used language to draw a line between harassment and genuine critique, but not all.

I’m not concerned only about TLJ critics being misrepresented. No average human will read topics like these and derive any sort of subtlety from the arguments presented. Everyone who calls themselves a Star Wars fan could end up having to defend themselves against this “toxic” label.

https://www.themarysue.com/star-wars-fandom-toxicity/

(Before anyone freaks out over the name, that’s a feminist web site. Take it up with them.)

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MTFBWY…A

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The truth is that the fandom has gotten toxic. Even beyond the bigotry stuff, the discourse in general recently has been far too heated.

In my mind the only way to push back isn’t to get angry when people rightfully point out toxicity, it is to try to make it clear that toxicity should have no place in the fanbase. Star Wars has more fans than possibly any other piece of media. It shouldn’t be hard for all the reasonable ones to push back against the harrasers and elevate the discourse and remember at the end of the day that these are just movies, and not worth getting so angry over (something that goes both ways). Passion is fine, but the outrage on either side could probably stand to take a break for a bit.

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The original story that compelled me to kick this thread off was the treatment of Kelly Marie Tran , and lets not hurl insults at people such as “duh” and "panties in a bunch " aye ? seems unbecoming of a moderator imho.

Here’s a broad-brush-hot-take: “Panties in a bunch” is a pretty accurate description of the Star Wars fandom.

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 (Edited)

pleasehello said:

The original story that compelled me to kick this thread off was the treatment of Kelly Marie Tran , and lets not hurl insults at people such as “duh” and "panties in a bunch " aye ? seems unbecoming of a moderator imho.

Here’s a broad-brush-hot-take: “Panties in a bunch” is a pretty accurate description of the Star Wars fandom.

To be fair, I’d say about 75-80% of the Star Wars fandom is pretty reasonable and accepting of differing opinions. It’s the remaining 20% or so that does nothing but complain.

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DominicCobb said:

The truth is that the fandom has gotten toxic. Even beyond the bigotry stuff, the discourse in general recently has been far too heated.

In my mind the only way to push back isn’t to get angry when people rightfully point out toxicity, it is to try to make it clear that toxicity should have no place in the fanbase. Star Wars has more fans than possibly any other piece of media. It shouldn’t be hard for all the reasonable ones to push back against the harrasers and elevate the discourse and remember at the end of the day that these are just movies, and not worth getting so angry over (something that goes both ways). Passion is fine, but the outrage on either side could probably stand to take a break for a bit.

I agree. It’s not as simple as being toxic, and non-toxic imo. These extremes are part of a larger group dynamic, which applies to critics and fans alike. Ideally we would all like to have respectful discourse, but the moment emotions run high, things can spin quickly out of control. Personally I see the group mentality where a minority is excluded from the discussion, ignored, or mocked for their opinion as a mild form of toxicity. Similarly, not being part of the majority can devolve to a form of jealosy, where those part of the majority are accused by a minority of a sheep mentality, or being apologists. These are forms of intolerance, that can easily devolve to full blown toxicity.

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DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

The truth is that the fandom has gotten toxic. Even beyond the bigotry stuff, the discourse in general recently has been far too heated.

In my mind the only way to push back isn’t to get angry when people rightfully point out toxicity, it is to try to make it clear that toxicity should have no place in the fanbase. Star Wars has more fans than possibly any other piece of media. It shouldn’t be hard for all the reasonable ones to push back against the harrasers and elevate the discourse and remember at the end of the day that these are just movies, and not worth getting so angry over (something that goes both ways). Passion is fine, but the outrage on either side could probably stand to take a break for a bit.

I agree. It’s not as simple as being toxic, and non-toxic imo. These extremes are part of a larger group dynamic, which applies to critics and fans alike. Ideally we would all like to have respectful discourse, but the moment emotions run high, things can spin quickly out of control. Personally I see the group mentality where a minority is excluded from the discussion, ignored, or mocked for their opinion as a mild form of toxicity. Similarly, not being part of the majority can devolve to a form of jealosy, where those part of the majority are accused by a minority of a sheep mentality, or being apologists. These are forms of intolerance, that can easily devolve to full blown toxicity.

good points.

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^ Great to see that - and also Ashley Eckstein also addressing it too.

(and fair play to AE for taking the chance back when she did to give female fans a choice/platform to buy clothing from - for far too long there were only male size clothing available, or a very limited choice of female sizes.)

A little patience goes a long way on this old-school Rebel base. If you are having issues finding what you are looking for, these will be of some help…

Welcome to the OriginalTrilogy.com | Introduce yourself in here | Useful info within : About : Help : Site Rules : Fan Project Rules : Announcements
How do I do this?’ on the OriginalTrilogy.com; some info & answers + FAQs - includes info on how to search for projects and threads on the OT•com

A Project Index for Star Wars Preservations (Harmy’s Despecialized & 4K77/80/83 etc) : A Project Index for Star Wars Fan Edits (adywan & Hal 9000 etc)

… and take your time to look around this site before posting - to get a feel for this place. Don’t just lazily make yet another thread asking for projects.

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Kellythatsit said:

These people deserve to be called out as the abhorrent jerks they are. Seriously, this is a series of fictional films! People are sending death threats and behaving like absolute nobs just because someone made a star war they didn’t like, or wrote a story they felt was boring, or were a bit confused by all the long words they used.

It’s time these “fans” chilled the **** out and realised their sense of entitlement doesn’t give them the right to troll and abuse people whose only “crime” was to try to make something others would enjoy. It sickens me to see Daisy Ridley and Kelly Marie Tran forced to close down their Instagram accounts because idiots think it’s their right to post hateful dribble at them when they post a photo, just because they were in Star Wars.

Meanwhile shows like RFR and Geeks and Gamers pander their self important drivel to these dregs of the community in a wholly transparent attempt to get more subscriptions and likes.

Well said mate

A little patience goes a long way on this old-school Rebel base. If you are having issues finding what you are looking for, these will be of some help…

Welcome to the OriginalTrilogy.com | Introduce yourself in here | Useful info within : About : Help : Site Rules : Fan Project Rules : Announcements
How do I do this?’ on the OriginalTrilogy.com; some info & answers + FAQs - includes info on how to search for projects and threads on the OT•com

A Project Index for Star Wars Preservations (Harmy’s Despecialized & 4K77/80/83 etc) : A Project Index for Star Wars Fan Edits (adywan & Hal 9000 etc)

… and take your time to look around this site before posting - to get a feel for this place. Don’t just lazily make yet another thread asking for projects.

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 (Edited)

oojason said:

Kellythatsit said:

These people deserve to be called out as the abhorrent jerks they are. Seriously, this is a series of fictional films! People are sending death threats and behaving like absolute nobs just because someone made a star war they didn’t like, or wrote a story they felt was boring, or were a bit confused by all the long words they used.

It’s time these “fans” chilled the **** out and realised their sense of entitlement doesn’t give them the right to troll and abuse people whose only “crime” was to try to make something others would enjoy. It sickens me to see Daisy Ridley and Kelly Marie Tran forced to close down their Instagram accounts because idiots think it’s their right to post hateful dribble at them when they post a photo, just because they were in Star Wars.

Meanwhile shows like RFR and Geeks and Gamers pander their self important drivel to these dregs of the community in a wholly transparent attempt to get more subscriptions and likes.

Well said mate

I disagree with the latter part. Once you start conflating critical platforms such as RFR and Geeks and Gamers with toxic fandom and the like, you’re on a very slippery slope. Similar tactics were used against many liberals in the cold war. Suddenly, everyone who’s on the opposite side is at best potentially a commie/toxic, or at worst guilty by association.

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Suddenly, everyone who’s on the opposite side is at best potentially a commie/toxic, or at worst guilty by association.

That’s always been a fear of mine.