Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo — Page 796

Mrebo said:

I must be blessed to not suffer any white male guilt.

I understand that likely certain of my ancestors are probably responsible for bad things having happened to minorities in this country, but I’m not responsible for that. I take no ownership of it. I understand being in poverty is a hard cycle to escape, and that our culture shows preference to certain types of people over others, but I play no (knowingly) active part in that.

To some degree, I genuinely feel that people need to be responsible for themselves and stop blaming the rest of society. For example, I understand that the colonists that appeared in America back in the day did horrible things to the Native Americans. I understand that much of the Native American population is poor. But at some point I really don’t see the value in the United States government giving reparations to them anymore. I’m fairly certain people in Europe conquered other people in Europe over the centuries, and I doubt many of the conquered over there get reparations for it. I know that sounds callous, but I still feel that way.

TV’s Frink said:

Jay said:

Warbler said:

Jay said:

What does a rude barista or stuttering have to do with politics?

When these sorts of things happen, we normally discuss them in the politics thread. It sorta has to do with with bigotry and discrimination, and that sorta gets into politics.

Fair enough.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/jul/04/terry-gilliam-on-diversity-bbc-monty-python-black-lesbian?CMP=share_btn_tw

I no longer want to be a white male, I don’t want to be blamed for everything wrong in the world: I tell the world now I’m a black lesbian… My name is Loretta and I’m a BLT, a black lesbian in transition.

What a baby.

Speaking at a press conference at the Karlovy Vary film festival, where he was presenting his new film The Man Who Killed Don Quixote, Gilliam said: “It made me cry: the idea that … no longer six white Oxbridge men can make a comedy show. Now we need one of this, one of that, everybody represented… this is bullshit. I no longer want to be a white male, I don’t want to be blamed for everything wrong in the world: I tell the world now I’m a black lesbian… My name is Loretta and I’m a BLT, a black lesbian in transition.”

He added: “[Allen’s] statement made me so angry, all of us so angry. Comedy is not assembled, it’s not like putting together a boy band where you put together one of this, one of that everyone is represented.”

It’s not about picking one of each. It’s about giving all voices a chance to sit at the table. Comedy has been closed off to all but white males the majority of the time for way too long.

I think Gilliam may be voicing his thoughts and concerns in that… Python wouldn’t exist if done today - because the group may have been split up by the Head of BBC Entertainment/Comedy to make it more diverse (from their experience a management-level box-ticker with likely not much interest in comedy itself). Which is problem in itself and he is correct in that context; they were a tight unit who’d grown together - why do have to include someone to tick a box that we don’t know and may not likely ‘get’ us? (maybe at the expense of one of the group, even?) He’s seemingly invoking a bit of Dustin Hoffman’s Tootsie in his claim (for me, anyway).

The problem Gilliam may be not giving much consideration to in that… is at that time when they were starting out… the BBC weren’t doing much comedy for differing cultures at all, and it wasn’t diverse. The Pythons also did a lot of the work themselves, writing, acting, style, content, and had a large say in direction input (for timing, and effect) etc - not a lot of modern comedians seemingly do that - usually they seem to be comedians who may write/act a little.

Thankfully, since then comedy has evolved in who it is trying to appeal to… from having a young black scouser as a main role in Red Dwarf in the 80’s, which appealed and was aimed at younger and more diverse audiences - all the way through to having comedies mainly aimed to appeal for ethnic/cultural audiences. People behind the scenes coming from differing backgrounds, culture and classes - more diverse than ever - writers included, which may have not been the case 40/50 years ago. (it certainly wasn’t the done thing at the BBC; accents were frowned upon, and often you usually had to be from a certain ‘class’ or ‘standard’ to work there in a creative/management role.

TV’s Frink said:

Mrebo said:

I must be blessed to not suffer any white male guilt.

These are the kinds of posts I’m referring to when I say I have no idea what the hell you’re trying to say most of the time, although I usually know that at a minimum I’m going to roll my eyes, if not be outright hostile.

That would be unlike you.

I think the meaning is abundantly obvious. I don’t spend time or energy worrying about diversity. I recognize the historical reality where certain people didn’t have the same opportunities and it’s good to be aware of potential bias. But these quotas enforced by well-meaning mostly white males makes me roll my eyes. I expect that in an increasingly egalitarian society diversity occurs naturally.

chyron8472 said:

Mrebo said:

I must be blessed to not suffer any white male guilt.

I understand that likely certain of my ancestors are probably responsible for bad things having happened to minorities in this country, but I’m not responsible for that. I take no ownership of it. I understand being in poverty is a hard cycle to escape, and that our culture shows preference to certain types of people over others, but I play no (knowingly) active part in that.

To some degree, I genuinely feel that people need to be responsible for themselves and stop blaming the rest of society. For example, I understand that the colonists that appeared in America back in the day did horrible things to the Native Americans. I understand that much of the Native American population is poor. But at some point I really don’t see the value in the United States government giving reparations to them anymore. I’m fairly certain people in Europe conquered other people in Europe over the centuries, and I doubt many of the conquered over there get reparations for it. I know that sounds callous, but I still feel that way.

Well I agree.

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

It’s not about picking one of each. It’s about giving all voices a chance to sit at the table. Comedy has been closed off to all but white males the majority of the time for way too long.

Has it really? I’ve seen shitty, unfunny garbage bullshit “comedy” from people of all genders and races.

“The majority of the time.”

It’s gotten a little better in recent years because there is more opportunity out there (Netflix, for example). But you don’t think the majority of comedy throughout the years has been produced, written, and starred in by white males? Ok.

I actually do think that, but you didn’t say that. Don’t give me shit for being hyperbolic and then say things like “Comedy has been closed off to all but white males the majority of the time,” when for the last half a century, it has been open to women and minorities even if the majority of comedy has still been produced by white men. Richard Pryor, Joan Rivers, Roseanne, Eddie Murphy, Bill Cosby, Cheech & Chong, Chris Rock, Dave Chappelle, Sarah Silverman, Wanda Sykes, and Key & Peele are just some examples of extremely successful and popular comedians over the years.

Another thing I’m getting really tired of is people saying something and then when I object, they change their statement and phrase it in a much more reasonable way and then act as though that is the statement that I objected to. I never once fucking said that the majority of comedy over the years hasn’t been produced, written, or starred in by white guys. It’d be like if I said, “Oh, you don’t acknowledge the work Richard Pryor, Joan Rivers, and people like them? You’re just ignoring their work?”

Mrebo said:

I must be blessed to not suffer any white male guilt.

You’re not blessed. The concept of pervasive white guilt is so overblown. 99% of people with functioning brains don’t feel guilty about their gender or race.

dahmage said:

Mrebo said:

TV’s Frink said:

Mrebo said:

I must be blessed to not suffer any white male guilt.

These are the kinds of posts I’m referring to when I say I have no idea what the hell you’re trying to say most of the time, although I usually know that at a minimum I’m going to roll my eyes, if not be outright hostile.

That would be unlike you.

I think the meaning is abundantly obvious. I don’t spend time or energy worrying about diversity. I recognize the historical reality where certain people didn’t have the same opportunities and it’s good to be aware of potential bias. But these quotas enforced by well-meaning mostly white males makes me roll my eyes. I expect that in an increasingly egalitarian society diversity occurs naturally.

it wasn’t abundantly obvious (hasn’t this forum taught us anything about misunderstandings? hehe).

I am still a bit confused if you are just saying you are glad you are non-white, or you are mocking what you perceive as white-guilt in the rest of us (as if that is the only reason to be inclusive?)

I’m saying I am glad I don’t feel any especial burden. Whether anyone else here does as a result of their being white and male is for them to know. As should be clear I’m all for diversity that should naturally occur.

TV’s Frink said:

Mrebo said:

I expect that in an increasingly egalitarian society diversity occurs naturally.

Let me know when it happens.

I think it’s happening all the time.

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Mrebo said:

I must be blessed to not suffer any white male guilt.

You’re not blessed. The concept of pervasive white guilt is so overblown. 99% of people with functioning brains don’t feel guilty about their gender or race.

However privilege, and the privileged blindness to it, is quite real.

Sure, but I think that poor and working class people of all races need to unite against the most privileged people of all, which are the rich fuckers that run this country.

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

It’s not about picking one of each. It’s about giving all voices a chance to sit at the table. Comedy has been closed off to all but white males the majority of the time for way too long.

Has it really? I’ve seen shitty, unfunny garbage bullshit “comedy” from people of all genders and races.

“The majority of the time.”

It’s gotten a little better in recent years because there is more opportunity out there (Netflix, for example). But you don’t think the majority of comedy throughout the years has been produced, written, and starred in by white males? Ok.

I actually do think that, but you didn’t say that. Don’t give me shit for being hyperbolic and then say things like “Comedy has been closed off to all but white males the majority of the time,” when for the last half a century, it has been open to women and minorities even if the majority of comedy has still been produced by white men. Richard Pryor, Joan Rivers, Roseanne, Eddie Murphy, Bill Cosby, Cheech & Chong, Chris Rock, Dave Chappelle, Sarah Silverman, Wanda Sykes, and Key & Peele are just some examples of extremely successful and popular comedians over the years.

Another thing I’m getting really tired of is people saying something and then when I object, they change their statement and phrase it in a much more reasonable way and then act as though that is the statement that I objected to. I never once fucking said that the majority of comedy over the years hasn’t been produced, written, or starred in by white guys. It’d be like if I said, “Oh, you don’t acknowledge the work Richard Pryor, Joan Rivers, and people like them? You’re just ignoring their work?”

Ok.

That was a totally fucking reasonable and I want credit for it.

moviefreakedmind said:

Mrebo said:

I must be blessed to not suffer any white male guilt.

You’re not blessed. The concept of pervasive white guilt is so overblown. 99% of people with functioning brains don’t feel guilty about their gender or race.

Aw, I thought I was special.

I think you’re right. Somehow though, the idea gets great promotion and a moral cachet it doesn’t deserve.

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Mrebo said:

I must be blessed to not suffer any white male guilt.

You’re not blessed. The concept of pervasive white guilt is so overblown. 99% of people with functioning brains don’t feel guilty about their gender or race.

However privilege, and the privileged blindness to it, is quite real.

Maybe I am special!

(By which I mean “special” in the sarcastic sense.)

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

That was a totally fucking reasonable and I want credit for it.

Ok.

That’s another you do. You’ll accuse someone of being ridiculous or absurd, and then disregard their explanation when they make clear that they aren’t. It pisses me off and it’s a great of why discussion is ultimately a waste of time.

To be fair, I hope Trump nominates a woman to the Supreme Court on Monday. However I think it will be Raymond Kethledge.

Mrebo said:

To be fair, I hope Trump nominates a woman to the Supreme Court on Monday. However I think it will be Raymond Kethledge.

Who cares if the fascist waste of life that he nominates is male or female?

This is another example where arbitrary characteristics like race and gender don’t matter to me. Here’s an extreme example, if your Supreme Court Choices are Ben Carson and Merrick Garland, no sane person would select the former, regardless of how important representation is.

moviefreakedmind said:

Mrebo said:

To be fair, I hope Trump nominates a woman to the Supreme Court on Monday. However I think it will be Raymond Kethledge.

Who cares if the fascist waste of life that he nominates is male or female?

Diverse fascism seem more legit.

Non-sarcastically, it counters the annoying narrative about mostly white male majority vs diverse minority on the Court.

Mrebo said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Mrebo said:

To be fair, I hope Trump nominates a woman to the Supreme Court on Monday. However I think it will be Raymond Kethledge.

Who cares if the fascist waste of life that he nominates is male or female?

Diverse fascism seem more legit.

Non-sarcastically, it counters the annoying narrative about mostly white male majority vs diverse minority on the Court.

That’s the first I’m hearing of that narrative.