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The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 242

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dahmage said:

I just got shipment notification on my Blu-ray, here’s hoping it makes it to my house a day or two before the 27th 😃

Best Buy? I just got mine too.

It seems like people are really embracing the new characters. In fact, the big question people ask me now about Star Wars is, “Are Finn and Poe gay lovers?” And really how the f*ck would I know? My second husband left me for a man, so my gaydar isn’t exactly what you’d call Death Star level quality. ----Carrie Fisher

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 (Edited)

darthrush said:

DrDre said:

oojason said:

darthrush said:

nor this is a brilliant / good / awful / bad judgment of the article - just that it had some intriguing thoughts and takes therein.

That is all.

haaaaa

Aye, not bad for someone with ‘obvious double standards’ for posting an article in which the quality or of it was not mentioned/commented upon at all - and one you seeming haven’t read yet going on ‘From Dre’s cited text, looks like an god awful, elitist article’.

I did read it, and it is an god awful, elitist article. Not for defending TLJ obviously, but for the utter contempt it displays towards a part of the fan base. I didn’t find those very intriguing thoughts and takes, more like insulting to be honest. There have been articles posted here on TLJ, that were harsh on the film (not on the fan base), that have been treated far less kindly than this one.

The double standard is evident.

Like I said, I have run into pricks who treated my opinion with a lot of contempt for liking the movie but it seems that on OT.com that oojason as an moderator constantly jumps in to defend the movie against any critical opinion or crack down on people linking to critical articles/videos. Just in general, it seems that there is a bias and double standard against people who are critical of TLJ. This is coming from someone who loves the movie.

Ha. Not at all. I don’t constantly jump in to defend the movie - as previously said I have issues with the movie - though I enjoyed it overall. There’s also a few good critiques of TLJ in here (video & article links as well as members’ posts)- and I have no issues with them - nor anyone’s opinion of TLJ (trolls and wums apart). I do recall we did ask for the repetition of the political aspects to stop - and I think we asked for some consideration to focusing on what people like about things too - amongst the negative mentions, when the thread seems to take a negative turn for a while - the fiends!
 

I do call out a few clickbait youtube videos with misleading titles or content - or those videos that do contain political content (as requested by Jay that the political content in this thread stop - we’d already been through it, repeatedly, as mentioned above).

For example - on the clikbait side of things… not so long ago Gothamknight posted about this video:-

The Last Jedi - The More Rian Johnson Talks, The Worse He Makes Things’ from ‘Geeks and Gamers’.

I stated I couldn’t get past 25 seconds or something, explained why here and that was that - it wasn’t a ‘don’t watch this video - it has a negative opinion of TLJ’, was it It just wasn’t for me - though doesn’t mean that it’s not for others to enjoy, does it?

I didn’t even point out they are the ones behind this shite youtube cover for clickbait:-

and seemingly love a good mention of a mary sue, sjw and kathleen kennedy for other clickbaity videos etc. You know why? I’m not that arsed about it - it’s not my thing; I don’t like it - fair play if it’s theirs or others - though I am thankful (personally) no-one has posted it here.
 

If you want to go through this thread looking for me apparently bashing youtube videos as some sort of proof I ‘constantly jump[s] in to defend the movie against any critical opinion or crack down on people linking to critical articles/videos’ you go ahead, and I’ll even state why I said what I did about each (If I can remember) - though you’ll have to go find them as I can’t be arsed to - because I’m not arsed about people’s opinions of TLJ, y’see?
 

I’m not even that arsed about that article I linked to earlier today - I posted it as I thought it had some ‘intriguing thoughts and takes’ - and some people may be interested to read it… a bit like how I post art, posters, gifs, covers, articles, news and other links across the boards here.

But instead I’m wasting time pointing stuff like this out to people instead of enjoying my Friday night… ('cos they didn’t like or agree with it - as a whole or anything about it, and that’s my fault for ‘jumping to the defence of TLJ from critical opinion or something’). I can certainly see who so many see this thread as toxic and avoid it like the plague - I only wish I could, though does serve as a welcome reminder to not post in here if I can help it.

A little patience goes a long way on this old-school Rebel base. If you are having issues finding what you are looking for, these will be of some help…

Welcome to the OriginalTrilogy.com | Introduce yourself in here | Useful info within : About : Help : Site Rules : Fan Project Rules : Announcements
How do I do this?’ on the OriginalTrilogy.com; some info & answers + FAQs - includes info on how to search for projects and threads on the OT•com

A Project Index for Star Wars Preservations (Harmy’s Despecialized & 4K77/80/83 etc) : A Project Index for Star Wars Fan Edits (adywan & Hal 9000 etc)

… and take your time to look around this site before posting - to get a feel for this place. Don’t just lazily make yet another thread asking for projects.

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 (Edited)

Creox said:

The informed and rational detractors of the film get washed up in the wave of hysteria you mention in your last sentence. That being said I find it puzzling why someone would spend so much time posting on a film they don’t like. I am talking to people like Dre who is obviously taking the time and feels passionately about his thoughts on the film. He makes good points but is unswayed so…why continue talking about it? IMO he feels (like many do in his position) that we will finally see the light and agree with him. Disney is not going to change their film.

DrDre said:

There are whole sections in this forum devoted to stuff many people don’t like: the Special Editions, and the PT. These films and versions have existed for decades, and people are still discussing them, more often than not in a negative light. So, why should I not be discussing TLJ after just three months?

Remember: the greatest teacher failure is, and in my view TLJ is a failure, and there’s a lot to learn from this particular failure in terms of my own appreciation of the Star Wars universe and works of fiction in general.

Now there would be an interesting exercise: create classifications of those who habitually criticize a story.

  1. There are the types who are sharp, well informed in the subject matter of which they speak, and whose main motivation is typically the education of others.

  2. Analysis is secondary to emotional venting for those fans of past installments who now feel personally offended by more recent developments.

  3. These would be feral beasts who hunted children, had nature not granted them just enough brain tissue to post hateful comments on the internet.

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lovelikewinter said:

dahmage said:

I just got shipment notification on my Blu-ray, here’s hoping it makes it to my house a day or two before the 27th 😃

Best Buy? I just got mine too.

yep. i think TLJ got to my house a day earlier than the official release date, so i do have a small reason to hold out hope that this will as weill.

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DominicCobb said:

Shopping Maul said:

Creox said:

Ms. Thrawn said:

I’m subscribed to a ton of reviewers and critics on YouTube whose opinions tend to vary from one another on a lot of things. But the only name I can think of off the top of my head who gave TLJ a glowing review would be Movie Bob. Doug Walker gave it a mostly positive, if I remember right?

Other than that, my subscription updates and recommendations have been inundated with negative reviews since the movie came out. YouTube has a kind of cynical culture going to it anyway, but I’ve never seen the hate bandwagon toward a work of fiction reach “Look What This Cuh-raaazy SJW Feminist Did On Campus” levels until now. I’m pretty sure there’s what amounts to a zombie horde of angry fans waiting to rip Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson to shreds at the first opportunity, if the comments on a lot of those videos are any hint.

TLJ is just OK in my opinion, and I don’t rush to its defense. That said, if you want to call the backlash against it a little bit ridiculous, then you might have something there.

The informed and rational detractors of the film get washed up in the wave of hysteria you mention in your last sentence. That being said I find it puzzling why someone would spend so much time posting on a film they don’t like. I am talking to people like Dre who is obviously taking the time and feels passionately about his thoughts on the film. He makes good points but is unswayed so…why continue talking about it? IMO he feels (like many do in his position) that we will finally see the light and agree with him. Disney is not going to change their film.

And yes, it makes more sense to me to continue to talk about a film you like then one you dislike simply because most people are not bothered to keep engaged in activities they dislike. If I don’t like a book I stop reading, If I don’t like a song on the radio I switch stations etc. But if I DO like that song I listen to it a lot and tell other people about it.

I can’t speak for anyone else here, but I think at some level I’m hoping to be swayed. As a fan I want to be able to keep enjoying Star Wars. If someone can offer me a better way to view aspects of the film that bug me (Holdo’s withholding information, new canon regarding the Force, Luke’s personality etc) then I’m all for it.

Thing is, those are things that are all explained in the film and have been discussed ad nauseam here. Either you buy it, or you don’t. Sounds like you don’t, and I’m not sure there’s anything that could be added to the last 241 pages that’d sway you one way or the other.

Well ya can’t blame a guy for trying!

No-one has necessarily ‘swayed’ me here - that’s true - although I enjoy the discourse and respect those involved (mostly). Perhaps ‘swayed’ is the wrong word. But one example of what I was talking about is a series of Youtube vids by someone called Mauler (not sure if you’ve seen them). Now this guys rips into TLJ like nothing else, and I think his points are spot on and well thought out and certainly not troll-like. But I don’t agree with all of his points despite my respect for his position and reasons, which gives me scope to see aspects of the movie in a new light and appreciate it a little more.

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flametitan said:

SilverWook said:

It’s not unreasonable that an untrained Force sensitive kid might learn to do a few parlor tricks like pulling a broom to his hand without ever being able to do much more than that. Interestingly enough, it’s those kind of parlor tricks Anakin does around Padme in AOTC, even though he says Obi Wan frowns on such frivolous use of the Force.*

*We later see Obi Wan use the Force to open and close doors mere inches away from his grasp. Which makes him out to be a bit of a hypocrite. 😛

I mean, those could just be the automatic doors you see everywhere, and he’s just like the rest of us. 😛

On Kamino, he clearly does the Force hand wave at them. The shot in ROTS when he’s concealing himself in a compartment on Padme’s ship is the biggest offender.

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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 (Edited)

Shopping Maul said:

Frank your Majesty said:

You’re overthinking this. The point of Broom Boy is to show how the Force is for everyone and that you don’t need to be mentioned in a prophecy or part of a certain family to use it. And in order to establish this in a quick and subtle way, they showed him grabbing the broom. Showing his enhanced reflexes would require a way longer scene, putting too much emphasis on him. And simply mentioning his abilities in dialogue would be lazy and too on the nose.

Of course I’m overthinking this. I’m a Star Wars nerd!

Seriously though, I actually like the sentiment - that the Force is for everybody (as opposed to genetic a la the PT). But it isn’t free. In the OT (and the PT despite Midichlorians) the Force is a discipline. Luke struggled to levitate his lightsaber in the Wampa cave. He was 23 yrs-old and had been aware of his heritage for the past 3 years. He couldn’t raise his X-wing. Yoda could. This was a clear indication of learning, of slow progress, of mastering his self and his fears and his ego in order to reach for such mastery. I just happen to like that idea. If kids can levitate brooms and Rey can lift a mountain without training then Luke clearly sucked as a Jedi, 'cos apparently this stuff ain’t so difficult!

RJ had already made his point about the Force via Luke’s explanation and Rey’s parentage. We didn’t need Broom Boy. I’d have preferred the film end on the Falcon or have Broom Boy simply holding the Resistance badge and looking to the stars.

Luke was also injured, upside down, (blood rush to the head!) and probably already suffering from the cold.
Broom Boy’s™ broom was not stuck in a pile of snow either.

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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If the PT isn’t part of one’s head canon, the view of the Force and the Jedi is so different that the ST can be more unappealing. The whole prophecy/Skywalker dynasty thing from the PT has always been an annoyance. The formal “Sith” thing annoys me too. A lot of this flows out of the EU also which was a very limited part of my diet.

The blue elephant in the room.

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SilverWook said:

flametitan said:

SilverWook said:

It’s not unreasonable that an untrained Force sensitive kid might learn to do a few parlor tricks like pulling a broom to his hand without ever being able to do much more than that. Interestingly enough, it’s those kind of parlor tricks Anakin does around Padme in AOTC, even though he says Obi Wan frowns on such frivolous use of the Force.*

*We later see Obi Wan use the Force to open and close doors mere inches away from his grasp. Which makes him out to be a bit of a hypocrite. 😛

I mean, those could just be the automatic doors you see everywhere, and he’s just like the rest of us. 😛

On Kamino, he clearly does the Force hand wave at them.

My daughters do this all the time.

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TV’s Frink said:

SilverWook said:

flametitan said:

SilverWook said:

It’s not unreasonable that an untrained Force sensitive kid might learn to do a few parlor tricks like pulling a broom to his hand without ever being able to do much more than that. Interestingly enough, it’s those kind of parlor tricks Anakin does around Padme in AOTC, even though he says Obi Wan frowns on such frivolous use of the Force.*

*We later see Obi Wan use the Force to open and close doors mere inches away from his grasp. Which makes him out to be a bit of a hypocrite. 😛

I mean, those could just be the automatic doors you see everywhere, and he’s just like the rest of us. 😛

On Kamino, he clearly does the Force hand wave at them.

My daughters do this all the time.

on Kamino? i doubt that very much.

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dahmage said:

TV’s Frink said:

SilverWook said:

flametitan said:

SilverWook said:

It’s not unreasonable that an untrained Force sensitive kid might learn to do a few parlor tricks like pulling a broom to his hand without ever being able to do much more than that. Interestingly enough, it’s those kind of parlor tricks Anakin does around Padme in AOTC, even though he says Obi Wan frowns on such frivolous use of the Force.*

*We later see Obi Wan use the Force to open and close doors mere inches away from his grasp. Which makes him out to be a bit of a hypocrite. 😛

I mean, those could just be the automatic doors you see everywhere, and he’s just like the rest of us. 😛

On Kamino, he clearly does the Force hand wave at them.

My daughters do this all the time.

on Kamino? i doubt that very much.

You can’t disprove it though.

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TV’s Frink said:

SilverWook said:

flametitan said:

SilverWook said:

It’s not unreasonable that an untrained Force sensitive kid might learn to do a few parlor tricks like pulling a broom to his hand without ever being able to do much more than that. Interestingly enough, it’s those kind of parlor tricks Anakin does around Padme in AOTC, even though he says Obi Wan frowns on such frivolous use of the Force.*

*We later see Obi Wan use the Force to open and close doors mere inches away from his grasp. Which makes him out to be a bit of a hypocrite. 😛

I mean, those could just be the automatic doors you see everywhere, and he’s just like the rest of us. 😛

On Kamino, he clearly does the Force hand wave at them.

My daughters do this all the time.

I do it with my back door light, as the sensor sometimes refuses to detect me when I walk outside. 😛

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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My dad likes to Force open the automatic doors at grocery stores.

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DrDre said:

Creox said:

Ms. Thrawn said:

I’m subscribed to a ton of reviewers and critics on YouTube whose opinions tend to vary from one another on a lot of things. But the only name I can think of off the top of my head who gave TLJ a glowing review would be Movie Bob. Doug Walker gave it a mostly positive, if I remember right?

Other than that, my subscription updates and recommendations have been inundated with negative reviews since the movie came out. YouTube has a kind of cynical culture going to it anyway, but I’ve never seen the hate bandwagon toward a work of fiction reach “Look What This Cuh-raaazy SJW Feminist Did On Campus” levels until now. I’m pretty sure there’s what amounts to a zombie horde of angry fans waiting to rip Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson to shreds at the first opportunity, if the comments on a lot of those videos are any hint.

TLJ is just OK in my opinion, and I don’t rush to its defense. That said, if you want to call the backlash against it a little bit ridiculous, then you might have something there.

The informed and rational detractors of the film get washed up in the wave of hysteria you mention in your last sentence. That being said I find it puzzling why someone would spend so much time posting on a film they don’t like. I am talking to people like Dre who is obviously taking the time and feels passionately about his thoughts on the film. He makes good points but is unswayed so…why continue talking about it? IMO he feels (like many do in his position) that we will finally see the light and agree with him. Disney is not going to change their film.

That is a pretty crass assumption. Why should you not want to discuss something you feel passionate about? Do you think it gives me discomfort? Why do I need to be swayed, and why should I desire others to see the light? Why can’t it just be about exchanging ideas? Should this forum just be an echo chamber for positive opinions?

And yes, it makes more sense to me to continue to talk about a film you like then one you dislike simply because most people are not bothered to keep engaged in activities they dislike. If I don’t like a book I stop reading, If I don’t like a song on the radio I switch stations etc. But if I DO like that song I listen to it a lot and tell other people about it.

There are whole sections in this forum devoted to stuff many people don’t like: the Special Editions, and the PT. These films and versions have existed for decades, and people are still discussing them, more often than not in a negative light. So, why should I not be discussing TLJ after just three months?

Remember: the greatest teacher failure is, and in my view TLJ is a failure, and there’s a lot to learn from this particular failure in terms of my own appreciation of the Star Wars universe and works of fiction in general.

I don’t think it’s crass at all. I get speaking your mind on a flick that bugs you, disappoints you…but to talk about it for months? That I don’t get. How many times do the same talking points have to be brought up before it gets old?

If you feel passionately about this film then I am truly puzzled because your posts are mostly quite critical.

I am more perplexed about your posts then angry…

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DominicCobb said:

Shopping Maul said:

Creox said:

Ms. Thrawn said:

I’m subscribed to a ton of reviewers and critics on YouTube whose opinions tend to vary from one another on a lot of things. But the only name I can think of off the top of my head who gave TLJ a glowing review would be Movie Bob. Doug Walker gave it a mostly positive, if I remember right?

Other than that, my subscription updates and recommendations have been inundated with negative reviews since the movie came out. YouTube has a kind of cynical culture going to it anyway, but I’ve never seen the hate bandwagon toward a work of fiction reach “Look What This Cuh-raaazy SJW Feminist Did On Campus” levels until now. I’m pretty sure there’s what amounts to a zombie horde of angry fans waiting to rip Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson to shreds at the first opportunity, if the comments on a lot of those videos are any hint.

TLJ is just OK in my opinion, and I don’t rush to its defense. That said, if you want to call the backlash against it a little bit ridiculous, then you might have something there.

The informed and rational detractors of the film get washed up in the wave of hysteria you mention in your last sentence. That being said I find it puzzling why someone would spend so much time posting on a film they don’t like. I am talking to people like Dre who is obviously taking the time and feels passionately about his thoughts on the film. He makes good points but is unswayed so…why continue talking about it? IMO he feels (like many do in his position) that we will finally see the light and agree with him. Disney is not going to change their film.

And yes, it makes more sense to me to continue to talk about a film you like then one you dislike simply because most people are not bothered to keep engaged in activities they dislike. If I don’t like a book I stop reading, If I don’t like a song on the radio I switch stations etc. But if I DO like that song I listen to it a lot and tell other people about it.

I can’t speak for anyone else here, but I think at some level I’m hoping to be swayed. As a fan I want to be able to keep enjoying Star Wars. If someone can offer me a better way to view aspects of the film that bug me (Holdo’s withholding information, new canon regarding the Force, Luke’s personality etc) then I’m all for it.

Thing is, those are things that are all explained in the film and have been discussed ad nauseam here. Either you buy it, or you don’t. Sounds like you don’t, and I’m not sure there’s anything that could be added to the last 241 pages that’d sway you one way or the other.

Indeed… I just don’t get why continuing to complain about the same aspects of the film they don’t like is advantageous for them…

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My Last Jedi steelbook will be here monday. I might have to have a mini marathon with TFA this upcoming week.

It seems like people are really embracing the new characters. In fact, the big question people ask me now about Star Wars is, “Are Finn and Poe gay lovers?” And really how the f*ck would I know? My second husband left me for a man, so my gaydar isn’t exactly what you’d call Death Star level quality. ----Carrie Fisher

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Creox said:

DrDre said:

Creox said:

Ms. Thrawn said:

I’m subscribed to a ton of reviewers and critics on YouTube whose opinions tend to vary from one another on a lot of things. But the only name I can think of off the top of my head who gave TLJ a glowing review would be Movie Bob. Doug Walker gave it a mostly positive, if I remember right?

Other than that, my subscription updates and recommendations have been inundated with negative reviews since the movie came out. YouTube has a kind of cynical culture going to it anyway, but I’ve never seen the hate bandwagon toward a work of fiction reach “Look What This Cuh-raaazy SJW Feminist Did On Campus” levels until now. I’m pretty sure there’s what amounts to a zombie horde of angry fans waiting to rip Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson to shreds at the first opportunity, if the comments on a lot of those videos are any hint.

TLJ is just OK in my opinion, and I don’t rush to its defense. That said, if you want to call the backlash against it a little bit ridiculous, then you might have something there.

The informed and rational detractors of the film get washed up in the wave of hysteria you mention in your last sentence. That being said I find it puzzling why someone would spend so much time posting on a film they don’t like. I am talking to people like Dre who is obviously taking the time and feels passionately about his thoughts on the film. He makes good points but is unswayed so…why continue talking about it? IMO he feels (like many do in his position) that we will finally see the light and agree with him. Disney is not going to change their film.

That is a pretty crass assumption. Why should you not want to discuss something you feel passionate about? Do you think it gives me discomfort? Why do I need to be swayed, and why should I desire others to see the light? Why can’t it just be about exchanging ideas? Should this forum just be an echo chamber for positive opinions?

And yes, it makes more sense to me to continue to talk about a film you like then one you dislike simply because most people are not bothered to keep engaged in activities they dislike. If I don’t like a book I stop reading, If I don’t like a song on the radio I switch stations etc. But if I DO like that song I listen to it a lot and tell other people about it.

There are whole sections in this forum devoted to stuff many people don’t like: the Special Editions, and the PT. These films and versions have existed for decades, and people are still discussing them, more often than not in a negative light. So, why should I not be discussing TLJ after just three months?

Remember: the greatest teacher failure is, and in my view TLJ is a failure, and there’s a lot to learn from this particular failure in terms of my own appreciation of the Star Wars universe and works of fiction in general.

I don’t think it’s crass at all. I get speaking your mind on a flick that bugs you, disappoints you…but to talk about it for months? That I don’t get. How many times do the same talking points have to be brought up before it gets old?

If you feel passionately about this film then I am truly puzzled because your posts are mostly quite critical.

I am more perplexed about your posts then angry…

He feels passionately about Star Wars. The Last Jedi is a part of Star Wars. It’s not just a movie he was disappointed in.

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 (Edited)

ChainsawAsh said:

Creox said:

DrDre said:

Creox said:

Ms. Thrawn said:

I’m subscribed to a ton of reviewers and critics on YouTube whose opinions tend to vary from one another on a lot of things. But the only name I can think of off the top of my head who gave TLJ a glowing review would be Movie Bob. Doug Walker gave it a mostly positive, if I remember right?

Other than that, my subscription updates and recommendations have been inundated with negative reviews since the movie came out. YouTube has a kind of cynical culture going to it anyway, but I’ve never seen the hate bandwagon toward a work of fiction reach “Look What This Cuh-raaazy SJW Feminist Did On Campus” levels until now. I’m pretty sure there’s what amounts to a zombie horde of angry fans waiting to rip Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson to shreds at the first opportunity, if the comments on a lot of those videos are any hint.

TLJ is just OK in my opinion, and I don’t rush to its defense. That said, if you want to call the backlash against it a little bit ridiculous, then you might have something there.

The informed and rational detractors of the film get washed up in the wave of hysteria you mention in your last sentence. That being said I find it puzzling why someone would spend so much time posting on a film they don’t like. I am talking to people like Dre who is obviously taking the time and feels passionately about his thoughts on the film. He makes good points but is unswayed so…why continue talking about it? IMO he feels (like many do in his position) that we will finally see the light and agree with him. Disney is not going to change their film.

That is a pretty crass assumption. Why should you not want to discuss something you feel passionate about? Do you think it gives me discomfort? Why do I need to be swayed, and why should I desire others to see the light? Why can’t it just be about exchanging ideas? Should this forum just be an echo chamber for positive opinions?

And yes, it makes more sense to me to continue to talk about a film you like then one you dislike simply because most people are not bothered to keep engaged in activities they dislike. If I don’t like a book I stop reading, If I don’t like a song on the radio I switch stations etc. But if I DO like that song I listen to it a lot and tell other people about it.

There are whole sections in this forum devoted to stuff many people don’t like: the Special Editions, and the PT. These films and versions have existed for decades, and people are still discussing them, more often than not in a negative light. So, why should I not be discussing TLJ after just three months?

Remember: the greatest teacher failure is, and in my view TLJ is a failure, and there’s a lot to learn from this particular failure in terms of my own appreciation of the Star Wars universe and works of fiction in general.

I don’t think it’s crass at all. I get speaking your mind on a flick that bugs you, disappoints you…but to talk about it for months? That I don’t get. How many times do the same talking points have to be brought up before it gets old?

If you feel passionately about this film then I am truly puzzled because your posts are mostly quite critical.

I am more perplexed about your posts then angry…

He feels passionately about Star Wars. The Last Jedi is a part of Star Wars. It’s not just a movie he was disappointed in.

Exactly! Thank you!

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SilverWook said:

Shopping Maul said:

Frank your Majesty said:

You’re overthinking this. The point of Broom Boy is to show how the Force is for everyone and that you don’t need to be mentioned in a prophecy or part of a certain family to use it. And in order to establish this in a quick and subtle way, they showed him grabbing the broom. Showing his enhanced reflexes would require a way longer scene, putting too much emphasis on him. And simply mentioning his abilities in dialogue would be lazy and too on the nose.

Of course I’m overthinking this. I’m a Star Wars nerd!

Seriously though, I actually like the sentiment - that the Force is for everybody (as opposed to genetic a la the PT). But it isn’t free. In the OT (and the PT despite Midichlorians) the Force is a discipline. Luke struggled to levitate his lightsaber in the Wampa cave. He was 23 yrs-old and had been aware of his heritage for the past 3 years. He couldn’t raise his X-wing. Yoda could. This was a clear indication of learning, of slow progress, of mastering his self and his fears and his ego in order to reach for such mastery. I just happen to like that idea. If kids can levitate brooms and Rey can lift a mountain without training then Luke clearly sucked as a Jedi, 'cos apparently this stuff ain’t so difficult!

RJ had already made his point about the Force via Luke’s explanation and Rey’s parentage. We didn’t need Broom Boy. I’d have preferred the film end on the Falcon or have Broom Boy simply holding the Resistance badge and looking to the stars.

Luke was also injured, upside down, (blood rush to the head!) and probably already suffering from the cold.
Broom Boy’s™ broom was not stuck in a pile of snow either.

Yes, but that wasn’t the point of Luke’s scene. It wasn’t a demonstration in ‘levitation under duress’. It was to show that Luke had been expanding upon what he’d learned in the previous film whilst adding to the Force powers lexicon. Given Luke’s progressive struggle with levitation throughout TESB, it naturally follows that this is something of a difficult skill to master. Indeed, Yoda takes Luke on largely on the basis that he’s ‘learned so much’ already. Surely Yoda would’ve said “heh, levitation a five-year old novice could achieve without effort!” if it really was such a casual ability on the Jedi scale.

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But the Force had awoken by the time the boy summoned the broom. Didn’t you feel it?

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Ms. Thrawn said:

But the Force had awoken by the time the boy summoned the broom. Didn’t you feel it?

“…yes” (spoken in deep menacing voice).

Seriously though, I myself (and this is entirely my own bias here) don’t like or embrace the idea of the Force having a will of its own. I don’t even like the ‘balance’ stuff. There was no ‘balance to the Force’ back in '83, or even a Sith ‘rule of 2’ for that matter. The Force was just an energy and certain skilled people got to tap into it, for good or for ill.

When Snoke said “there has been an awakening” I took it as “someone is tapping into it in a way we haven’t seen in a long time” - that being Rey who, to my mind, had huge natural potential and had basically ‘self-trained’ to an extent under the duress of her Jakku lifestyle. Even though Rey is…uh…overpowered…there was still a logic to it that didn’t necessarily point to the Force having its own will or trotting out another ‘chosen one’. I just thought Snoke was feeling the ripple of Rey’s coming into her powers.

I can’t explain Broom Boy. Maybe he was bitten by a radioactive Lightsaber…

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 (Edited)

Even if we count the prequels for fun . . . the impression I got from the original six films is that the Jedi viewed “bring balance to the Force” as “make sure the light side wins”. Whether or not that qualifies as balance is up in the air, but it at least makes sense inside the story. Luke helps turn Vader back into Anakin, who then kills the Emperor.

Then TLJ throws a monkey wrench by implying that the Force tries to balance itself between light and dark. Snoke could’ve just been sharing his weird opinion, but it goes too far in explaining Rey’s aptitude.

As far as the Force having a will? That could very well be but a superstition among Jedi and to a lesser extent Sith (who like to preach about destiny). There are ghosts living in the spiritual realm who have minds of their own, I guess. Maybe “will of the Force” is the majority vote of a ghost committee. 😛

Your interpretation of the awakening is nice and sound. I agree. 😃

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Ms. Thrawn said:

Even if we count the prequels for fun . . . the impression I got from the original six films is that the Jedi viewed “bring balance to the Force” as “make sure the light side wins”. Whether or not that qualifies as balance is up in the air, but it at least makes sense inside the story. Luke helps turn Vader back into Anakin, who then kills the Emperor.

Then TLJ throws a monkey wrench by implying that the Force tries to balance itself between light and dark. Snoke could’ve just been sharing his weird opinion, but it goes too far in explaining Rey’s aptitude.

As far as the Force having a will? That could very well be but a superstition among Jedi and to a lesser extent Sith (who like to preach about destiny). There are ghosts living in the spiritual realm who have minds of their own, I guess. Maybe “will of the Force” is the majority vote of a ghost committee. 😛

Your interpretation of the awakening is nice and sound. I agree. 😃

I don’t recall Snoke’s exact speech about ‘balance’ in TLJ (looking forward to revisiting it all on Bluray next week!) but the idea of the Force automatically balancing itself renders the whole thing rather redundant. Luckily with all the broad strokes painted throughout the saga we can generally take our canon a la carte!

The ghost committee is interesting, although it would have to be comprised only of Qui Gon, Yoda, Obi Wan, and a somewhat red-faced Anakin (not sure anyone else learned netherworld conversion techniques). Perhaps ol’ Plagueis is there too wondering why all these Jedi are standing around smiling!

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ChainsawAsh said:

Creox said:

DrDre said:

Creox said:

Ms. Thrawn said:

I’m subscribed to a ton of reviewers and critics on YouTube whose opinions tend to vary from one another on a lot of things. But the only name I can think of off the top of my head who gave TLJ a glowing review would be Movie Bob. Doug Walker gave it a mostly positive, if I remember right?

Other than that, my subscription updates and recommendations have been inundated with negative reviews since the movie came out. YouTube has a kind of cynical culture going to it anyway, but I’ve never seen the hate bandwagon toward a work of fiction reach “Look What This Cuh-raaazy SJW Feminist Did On Campus” levels until now. I’m pretty sure there’s what amounts to a zombie horde of angry fans waiting to rip Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson to shreds at the first opportunity, if the comments on a lot of those videos are any hint.

TLJ is just OK in my opinion, and I don’t rush to its defense. That said, if you want to call the backlash against it a little bit ridiculous, then you might have something there.

The informed and rational detractors of the film get washed up in the wave of hysteria you mention in your last sentence. That being said I find it puzzling why someone would spend so much time posting on a film they don’t like. I am talking to people like Dre who is obviously taking the time and feels passionately about his thoughts on the film. He makes good points but is unswayed so…why continue talking about it? IMO he feels (like many do in his position) that we will finally see the light and agree with him. Disney is not going to change their film.

That is a pretty crass assumption. Why should you not want to discuss something you feel passionate about? Do you think it gives me discomfort? Why do I need to be swayed, and why should I desire others to see the light? Why can’t it just be about exchanging ideas? Should this forum just be an echo chamber for positive opinions?

And yes, it makes more sense to me to continue to talk about a film you like then one you dislike simply because most people are not bothered to keep engaged in activities they dislike. If I don’t like a book I stop reading, If I don’t like a song on the radio I switch stations etc. But if I DO like that song I listen to it a lot and tell other people about it.

There are whole sections in this forum devoted to stuff many people don’t like: the Special Editions, and the PT. These films and versions have existed for decades, and people are still discussing them, more often than not in a negative light. So, why should I not be discussing TLJ after just three months?

Remember: the greatest teacher failure is, and in my view TLJ is a failure, and there’s a lot to learn from this particular failure in terms of my own appreciation of the Star Wars universe and works of fiction in general.

I don’t think it’s crass at all. I get speaking your mind on a flick that bugs you, disappoints you…but to talk about it for months? That I don’t get. How many times do the same talking points have to be brought up before it gets old?

If you feel passionately about this film then I am truly puzzled because your posts are mostly quite critical.

I am more perplexed about your posts then angry…

He feels passionately about Star Wars. The Last Jedi is a part of Star Wars. It’s not just a movie he was disappointed in.

As do I. I saw SW in a theater in '77 as a 12 year old boy and haven’t looked back since. I have very mixed feelings about the PT as many here do but don’t spend a lot of time debating minutia about them to point out their flaws.

When you are talking about debate among an singular group of people (mostly) as with this forum when does it become obvious that you’re just spinning your wheels and getting nowhere?

Maybe it’s just for the entertainment of debating??