logo Sign In

The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 71

Author
Time

Valheru_84 said:

DrDre said:

Here’s “the guy” again, who’s actually a fantasy writer, with his spoiler review of TLJ:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOdobc7jtQo

This was a good watch, I found his other video “The Last Jedi: A hate letter to Star Wars and it’s fans” to be even better and in just the first 2-3 minutes he pretty much nails the major issue with TLJ (though the whole video is a good watch):

https://youtu.be/vOdobc7jtQo

I’m getting the same video when I click on those 2 links… 😕

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Valheru_84 said:

SilverWook said:

If these guys aren’t all being sucked out into space, then a similar emergency field around a small door isn’t a stretch.

Seriously people, we’re nitpicking movies where you can hear sounds in space.

Honestly don’t know why the Ties were called back, its not like they were getting shot to pieces or anything. They’d taken out the fighter launch bay and they’d just taken out the bridge. A few more volleys of fire and the Resistance mothership would have been done for.

.Val

One of the TIEs accompanying Kylo’s TIE Silencer was blown up seconds before Hux informed Kylo that they couldn’t cover their fighters at that range - the other TIE was destroyed seconds after.

(I think that’s how it went down, mate)

A little patience goes a long way on this old-school Rebel base. If you are having issues finding what you are looking for, these will be of some help…

Welcome to the OriginalTrilogy.com | Introduce yourself in here | Useful info within : About : Help : Site Rules : Fan Project Rules : Announcements
How do I do this?’ on the OriginalTrilogy.com; some info & answers + FAQs - includes info on how to search for projects and threads on the OT•com

A Project Index for Star Wars Preservations (Harmy’s Despecialized & 4K77/80/83 etc) : A Project Index for Star Wars Fan Edits (adywan & Hal 9000 etc)

… and take your time to look around this site before posting - to get a feel for this place. Don’t just lazily make yet another thread asking for projects.

Author
Time

I will say this as a positive about TLJ: At least the capital ships aren’t seemingly useless like in almost every other SW film.

Author
Time

Valheru_84 said:

DominicCobb said:

People realize how easy it is to “fly” in space right? You don’t have to to be Superman or Mary Poppins. It’s space. People realize this, right? Right?

If you’re going to remind people how space actually works then you need to explain how she didn’t die from it’s vacuum, how they opened the door she appeared at without decompressing that entire area and shooting Leia back out into space. Why was Rose’s sister not in a space suit when in the bomber bay that was exposed to space? Why did the bombs drop as if reacting to gravity?

If you’re watching Star Wars for accurate space physics then you’re watching the wrong movie. Might as well edit out all the sounds and explosions from all the other films if that’s the way you feel about it.

The way I look at it, if Dave in 2001 (a human in an ostensibly sci-fi film) can hold his breath in space, then I don’t see why Leia (a force user in a fantasy film) can’t. At the very least, it’s consistent with the only other times we saw this kind of thing in SW (space slug in ESB, window breaking open in ROTS).

These are all obvious plot holes anyway but regardless of the fairly casual approach to space facts in its sci-fi that SW normally takes, these are all stepping far beyond the edge of plausibility and straight into suspension of disbelief zone for anyone with the simplest knowledge of how things work in space.

I just don’t see how you can argue a point (so snidely / sarcastically as well) by calling out the obviousness of how easy it would be to move yourself in space with the force but then ignore the in-your-face issues applying such logic creates for so many other areas of the movie and from someone that says it’s a great movie…

.Val

Plot holes are the lowest form of criticism. One of the worst things about the internet is it thinks you can judge the quality of a movie based on how many plot holes it has (blame Cinemasins, I suppose). That’s wrong.

And this isn’t even a plot hole.

Anyway, my point being, people say “oh, well I guess force users can fly now” when they watch that scene, but that’s not what’s happening at all. The takeaway should be “oh, well I guess force users can hold their breath for a very short period of time in space (but once to safety, the stress of it will render them unconscious),” which personally I don’t find that hard to buy? Am I really crazy for thinking this?

Also, I’m snarky/sarcastic about everything. That’s just who I am.

Author
Time

Anchorhead said:

Hal 9000 said:
… the finished film in isolation would imply to me that he was just not interested in carrying on the themes and setups the previous film gave him to work with.

We’re not the only ones to have an issue with his desire to put the franchise on its ear. There is an interview with Daisy where she says as soon as she read the script she went to Rian and said “we need to have a talk about what’s happening here”.

I wasn’t interested in several parts of JJ’s film, Snoke and Phasma among them. However, Rian just discarding them seems lazy and/or disrespectful to all the work that went into them in TFA; actors, designers, costumers, writers,etc. They were presented as major characters, much to the delight of a huge portion of the fan base. All the fan speculation the past two years was all for nothing.

Rian treated them the way major characters are treated on Game Of Thrones - You found the character and their story interesting? - too bad. That’s the main reason I stopped watching GoT. It became a waste of time. I’m not terribly interested in the ST. But I am glad it’s back in the hands of JJ.

I think the problem here is a misperception. Neither Snoke nor Phasma were a big part in JJ’s film (in fact I’d bet their combined screen time is under 10 minutes). They were only ever important insofar as how they relate to Kylo Ren and Finn’s characters, respectively. I don’t see how RJ betrays that in anyway, all he does is acknowledge that Kylo and Finn have moved beyond them. And killing them isn’t tossing them aside or being respectful to them - honestly both their parts were much more interesting and consequential to the story this time around.

Author
Time

Shopping Maul said:

SilverWook said:

Rescued a princess, helped deliver the DS plans to the rebels. He did blow up the first Death Star. Got a medal for it too. If he never did another thing after that, he would be a legend.

The shield generator mission might have not succeeded without Han being there, or Luke making the Ewoks into allies.

I’m sure 30 years on, the stories about Luke have been retold over and over to the point that they only bear passing resemblance to what actually happened.

Yeah, but I’m talking specifically about ROTJ’s climax. The whole build-up throughout the OT was about Luke being the last hope, the only hope, not abandoning his training, not giving in to the quick and easy path etc etc etc. “Only a fully trained Jedi Knight will conquer Vader and his Emperor”. Even Lucas said that Luke’s actions on Death Star II led to the Emperor’s defeat and saving the universe. But that’s just not true. Luke was irrelevant at that point.

Luke was not strong enough to defeat the Emperor on his own. He knew the only way he could do it was to turn Vader. He was willing to sacrifice his life by laying down his weapon and refusing to kill his father in hopes that he would join him in defeating the Emperor. It worked.

Not sure where the confusion is. Did you want Luke to become a superhero and physically defeat 2 full realized Sith despite receiving minimal training?

The Jedi are all but extinct.......
Author
Time

I think some of the criticism that’s been directed at TLJ should be directed at TFA instead. TFA set up its sequels with having to answer so many questions that should’ve been answered by TFA itself. It worked as a first part in a two parter, and it should’ve been a standalone film to set things up, like Star Wars and even The Phantom Menace were.
One example is Snoke and the First Order. Why not just tell us how he rose to power and how the First Order came to be in TFA? Why leave it to the other movies? But no, screw it. TFA shouldn’t have left a mystery box for the other movies to fill.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Hardcore Legend said:

Shopping Maul said:

SilverWook said:

Rescued a princess, helped deliver the DS plans to the rebels. He did blow up the first Death Star. Got a medal for it too. If he never did another thing after that, he would be a legend.

The shield generator mission might have not succeeded without Han being there, or Luke making the Ewoks into allies.

I’m sure 30 years on, the stories about Luke have been retold over and over to the point that they only bear passing resemblance to what actually happened.

Yeah, but I’m talking specifically about ROTJ’s climax. The whole build-up throughout the OT was about Luke being the last hope, the only hope, not abandoning his training, not giving in to the quick and easy path etc etc etc. “Only a fully trained Jedi Knight will conquer Vader and his Emperor”. Even Lucas said that Luke’s actions on Death Star II led to the Emperor’s defeat and saving the universe. But that’s just not true. Luke was irrelevant at that point.

Luke was not strong enough to defeat the Emperor on his own. He knew the only way he could do it was to turn Vader. He was willing to sacrifice his life by laying down his weapon and refusing to kill his father in hopes that he would join him in defeating the Emperor. It worked.

Not sure where the confusion is. Did you want Luke to become a superhero and physically defeat 2 full realized Sith despite receiving minimal training?

There is nothing to suggest Luke had any desire to defeat the Emperor at all. Quite the contrary, he threw his weapon aside and declared “I am a Jedi, like my father before me”. There’s no way the broken Darth Vader was in any position to help take down the Emperor at this point. Luke’s only concern in this entire process was a) getting out of the way so as not to endanger the Endor mission and b) turning Anakin to the ‘good side’. In fact he spent the entire process making sure he didn’t fight anybody, and only gave in to battling Vader when he was goaded (which apparently is wrong by Jedi standards).

So, just to recap, Luke didn’t want to fight anyone at all (rendering him entirely useless while an actual battle raged outside), was only concerned about Anakin’s spiritual welfare (again not helpful to the rebellion/battle in any way), and his only tangible contribution to this entire scenario was inadvertently (ie not purposefully because he was only concerned with his Dad’s well-being) preventing Palpatine’s possible escape from the exploding Death Star.

Which is fine (and he recruited the Ewoks as a previous poster mentioned) but none of this grants a shred of credence to the 3-film buildup that suggested Luke was the hope of the Galaxy or that Jedi themselves are a remotely good idea in this universe. If Jedi aren’t allowed to fight, turn irreversibly evil at the drop of a hat, and get cosmically forgiven for ghastly war-crimes if they selfishly save their own flesh and blood at the last minute, then I’m not so sure we want Luke to ‘pass on what he has learned’.

Even more ironically, Vader got his cosmic pardon by brutally killing the Emperor! So apparently trying to kill the Emperor because he’s slaughtering thousands of rebels is a path to the Dark Side, but killing the guy in defence of your own son is infinitely more noble and a path to the ‘good side’?

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Collipso said:

I think some of the criticism that’s been directed at TLJ should be directed at TFA instead. TFA set up its sequels with having to answer so many questions that should’ve been answered by TFA itself. It worked as a first part in a two parter, and it should’ve been a standalone film to set things up, like Star Wars and even The Phantom Menace were.
One example is Snoke and the First Order. Why not just tell us how he rose to power and how the First Order came to be in TFA? Why leave it to the other movies? But no, screw it. TFA shouldn’t have left a mystery box for the other movies to fill.

I think the biggest problem is the lack of an overarching set of themes for the ST. It’s obvious these films were created by two different artists with very different agendas. Additionally TLJ 's story is a mishmash of OT story threads and elements, driven by the desire to defy all expectations, rather than to tell it’s own story independent of expectations.

Author
Time

Collipso said:

I think some of the criticism that’s been directed at TLJ should be directed at TFA instead. TFA set up its sequels with having to answer so many questions that should’ve been answered by TFA itself. It worked as a first part in a two parter, and it should’ve been a standalone film to set things up, like Star Wars and even The Phantom Menace were.
One example is Snoke and the First Order. Why not just tell us how he rose to power and how the First Order came to be in TFA? Why leave it to the other movies? But no, screw it. TFA shouldn’t have left a mystery box for the other movies to fill.

Yep. This is what makes otherwise good moments fall flat on their face, like Snoke. Snoke mattered because he apparently came out of nowhere to undo all the accomplishments of the OT. Once you establish how… then kill him.

The blue elephant in the room.

Author
Time

Mielr said:

Valheru_84 said:

DrDre said:

Here’s “the guy” again, who’s actually a fantasy writer, with his spoiler review of TLJ:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOdobc7jtQo

This was a good watch, I found his other video “The Last Jedi: A hate letter to Star Wars and it’s fans” to be even better and in just the first 2-3 minutes he pretty much nails the major issue with TLJ (though the whole video is a good watch):

https://youtu.be/vOdobc7jtQo

I’m getting the same video when I click on those 2 links… 😕

Ah k, must have quoted the wrong link as it was the below that I initially watched and then the one I linked:

https://youtu.be/BYroQCN-MAM

.Val

Author
Time

Shopping Maul said:

Hardcore Legend said:

Shopping Maul said:

SilverWook said:

Rescued a princess, helped deliver the DS plans to the rebels. He did blow up the first Death Star. Got a medal for it too. If he never did another thing after that, he would be a legend.

The shield generator mission might have not succeeded without Han being there, or Luke making the Ewoks into allies.

I’m sure 30 years on, the stories about Luke have been retold over and over to the point that they only bear passing resemblance to what actually happened.

Yeah, but I’m talking specifically about ROTJ’s climax. The whole build-up throughout the OT was about Luke being the last hope, the only hope, not abandoning his training, not giving in to the quick and easy path etc etc etc. “Only a fully trained Jedi Knight will conquer Vader and his Emperor”. Even Lucas said that Luke’s actions on Death Star II led to the Emperor’s defeat and saving the universe. But that’s just not true. Luke was irrelevant at that point.

Luke was not strong enough to defeat the Emperor on his own. He knew the only way he could do it was to turn Vader. He was willing to sacrifice his life by laying down his weapon and refusing to kill his father in hopes that he would join him in defeating the Emperor. It worked.

Not sure where the confusion is. Did you want Luke to become a superhero and physically defeat 2 full realized Sith despite receiving minimal training?

There is nothing to suggest Luke had any desire to defeat the Emperor at all. Quite the contrary, he threw his weapon aside and declared “I am a Jedi, like my father before me”. There’s no way the broken Darth Vader was in any position to help take down the Emperor at this point. Luke’s only concern in this entire process was a) getting out of the way so as not to endanger the Endor mission and b) turning Anakin to the ‘good side’. In fact he spent the entire process making sure he didn’t fight anybody, and only gave in to battling Vader when he was goaded (which apparently is wrong by Jedi standards).

So, just to recap, Luke didn’t want to fight anyone at all (rendering him entirely useless while an actual battle raged outside), was only concerned about Anakin’s spiritual welfare (again not helpful to the rebellion/battle in any way), and his only tangible contribution to this entire scenario was inadvertently (ie not purposefully because he was only concerned with his Dad’s well-being) preventing Palpatine’s possible escape from the exploding Death Star.

Which is fine (and he recruited the Ewoks as a previous poster mentioned) but none of this grants a shred of credence to the 3-film buildup that suggested Luke was the hope of the Galaxy or that Jedi themselves are a remotely good idea in this universe. If Jedi aren’t allowed to fight, turn irreversibly evil at the drop of a hat, and get cosmically forgiven for ghastly war-crimes if they selfishly save their own flesh and blood at the last minute, then I’m not so sure we want Luke to ‘pass on what he has learned’.

Even more ironically, Vader got his cosmic pardon by brutally killing the Emperor! So apparently trying to kill the Emperor because he’s slaughtering thousands of rebels is a path to the Dark Side, but killing the guy in defence of your own son is infinitely more noble and a path to the ‘good side’?

What are you talking about? The line before what you are clinging to is about how he won’t be turned to the dark side.
Furthermore, he wasn’t useless. As he says (again) he was willing to be blown up on DSII to ensure that the Emperor was onboard while the Rebels destroyed it. His part of the mission was the occupy the two most powerful beings in the galaxy.

His destiny as the Jedi saw it was to kill his father and the Emperor.
His destiny as the Sith saw it was to kill his father and join the Emperor by giving into his anger.
Luke chose a 3rd path. Turn his father to the light and defeat the Emperor.
He was willing to die rather than give into either of the two destinies the two sides saw for him. He brought balance to the Force.

Vader didn’t “brutally kill” the Emperor. He heard his son begging for ‘help’ as he was having the life shocked out of him and he threw the Emperor over a railing.

I feel like perhaps we saw two different versions of the film.

The Jedi are all but extinct.......
Author
Time

DominicCobb said:

Valheru_84 said:

DominicCobb said:

People realize how easy it is to “fly” in space right? You don’t have to to be Superman or Mary Poppins. It’s space. People realize this, right? Right?

If you’re going to remind people how space actually works then you need to explain how she didn’t die from it’s vacuum, how they opened the door she appeared at without decompressing that entire area and shooting Leia back out into space. Why was Rose’s sister not in a space suit when in the bomber bay that was exposed to space? Why did the bombs drop as if reacting to gravity?

If you’re watching Star Wars for accurate space physics then you’re watching the wrong movie. Might as well edit out all the sounds and explosions from all the other films if that’s the way you feel about it.

That’s exactly the point I was making.

DominicCobb said:

These are all obvious plot holes anyway but regardless of the fairly casual approach to space facts in its sci-fi that SW normally takes, these are all stepping far beyond the edge of plausibility and straight into suspension of disbelief zone for anyone with the simplest knowledge of how things work in space.

I just don’t see how you can argue a point (so snidely / sarcastically as well) by calling out the obviousness of how easy it would be to move yourself in space with the force but then ignore the in-your-face issues applying such logic creates for so many other areas of the movie and from someone that says it’s a great movie…

.Val

Plot holes are the lowest form of criticism. One of the worst things about the internet is it thinks you can judge the quality of a movie based on how many plot holes it has (blame Cinemasins, I suppose). That’s wrong.

If they’re big and obvious enough they can very well ruin a movie. In this case they don’t directly impact the story and are very minor quibbles alongside the real issues with this movie. I was just pointing out that if you’re going to argue from a point of logic and fact in regards to how things work in space, you have to acknowledge the other things that aren’t correct in the movie which follow the theme of inconsistency and forgetting the rules when it suits.

DominicCobb said:
Also, I’m snarky/sarcastic about everything. That’s just who I am.

Fair enough, don’t be surprised though when people reply in kind or are rightly agitated by your tone if it’s not warranted.

.Val

Author
Time

Valheru_84 said:

DominicCobb said:

Valheru_84 said:

DominicCobb said:

People realize how easy it is to “fly” in space right? You don’t have to to be Superman or Mary Poppins. It’s space. People realize this, right? Right?

If you’re going to remind people how space actually works then you need to explain how she didn’t die from it’s vacuum, how they opened the door she appeared at without decompressing that entire area and shooting Leia back out into space. Why was Rose’s sister not in a space suit when in the bomber bay that was exposed to space? Why did the bombs drop as if reacting to gravity?

If you’re watching Star Wars for accurate space physics then you’re watching the wrong movie. Might as well edit out all the sounds and explosions from all the other films if that’s the way you feel about it.

That’s exactly the point I was making.

DominicCobb said:

These are all obvious plot holes anyway but regardless of the fairly casual approach to space facts in its sci-fi that SW normally takes, these are all stepping far beyond the edge of plausibility and straight into suspension of disbelief zone for anyone with the simplest knowledge of how things work in space.

I just don’t see how you can argue a point (so snidely / sarcastically as well) by calling out the obviousness of how easy it would be to move yourself in space with the force but then ignore the in-your-face issues applying such logic creates for so many other areas of the movie and from someone that says it’s a great movie…

.Val

Plot holes are the lowest form of criticism. One of the worst things about the internet is it thinks you can judge the quality of a movie based on how many plot holes it has (blame Cinemasins, I suppose). That’s wrong.

If they’re big and obvious enough they can very well ruin a movie. In this case they don’t directly impact the story and are very minor quibbles alongside the real issues with this movie. I was just pointing out that if you’re going to argue from a point of logic and fact in regards to how things work in space, you have to acknowledge the other things that aren’t correct in the movie which follow the theme of inconsistency and forgetting the rules when it suits.

You’re point doesn’t make sense? So if Star Wars doesn’t follow all the laws of physics that means there should be gravity in space and that’s why Leia’s moment is unbelievable? The lack of caring for physics only goes one way in storytelling.

It’s one thing when the movie skirts the rules or logic to tell a more interesting story (every movie does it). It’s another thing when a fan makes up a rule (“you can’t fly in space! that’s ridiculous!”) and uses illogic to form a complaint.

DominicCobb said:
Also, I’m snarky/sarcastic about everything. That’s just who I am.

Fair enough, don’t be surprised though when people reply in kind or are rightly agitated by your tone if it’s not warranted.

.Val

Yeah I never said I wasn’t fine with that. Bring on the snark, haters.

Author
Time

DominicCobb said:

Anchorhead said:

Hal 9000 said:
… the finished film in isolation would imply to me that he was just not interested in carrying on the themes and setups the previous film gave him to work with.

We’re not the only ones to have an issue with his desire to put the franchise on its ear. There is an interview with Daisy where she says as soon as she read the script she went to Rian and said “we need to have a talk about what’s happening here”.

I wasn’t interested in several parts of JJ’s film, Snoke and Phasma among them. However, Rian just discarding them seems lazy and/or disrespectful to all the work that went into them in TFA; actors, designers, costumers, writers,etc. They were presented as major characters, much to the delight of a huge portion of the fan base. All the fan speculation the past two years was all for nothing.

Rian treated them the way major characters are treated on Game Of Thrones - You found the character and their story interesting? - too bad. That’s the main reason I stopped watching GoT. It became a waste of time. I’m not terribly interested in the ST. But I am glad it’s back in the hands of JJ.

I think the problem here is a misperception. Neither Snoke nor Phasma were a big part in JJ’s film (in fact I’d bet their combined screen time is under 10 minutes). They were only ever important insofar as how they relate to Kylo Ren and Finn’s characters, respectively. I don’t see how RJ betrays that in anyway, all he does is acknowledge that Kylo and Finn have moved beyond them. And killing them isn’t tossing them aside or being respectful to them - honestly both their parts were much more interesting and consequential to the story this time around.

Snoke didn’t have much screen time but it was made obvious that he plays a massive part in the overarching back story as to the events unfolding in the ST. He’s an integral part to Kylo’s character and made to be a bigger threat than the emperor in TLJ. By killing him off so suddenly without providing any explanation to the no doubt hundreds of various questions people had come up with in the initial viewing and subsequent 2 years wait in between, his threat became a wisp of smoke (Snoke might as well have been as thin as smoke for all the depth he was given in the end) and by extension massively compromised and lessened both Kylo’s threat and his depth of character due to all the possible branches of story between him and Snoke that much got killed off in the process.

Phasma never had any real backstory or purpose in either movie and seemed to simply be there to market a shiny new toy. Her character really was useless to the plot of either movie and I couldn’t care less (unfortunately for the actor involved) that she’s supposedly dead, would have preferred her not to even come back in TLJ.

.Val

Author
Time

Collipso said:

I think some of the criticism that’s been directed at TLJ should be directed at TFA instead. TFA set up its sequels with having to answer so many questions that should’ve been answered by TFA itself. It worked as a first part in a two parter, and it should’ve been a standalone film to set things up, like Star Wars and even The Phantom Menace were.
One example is Snoke and the First Order. Why not just tell us how he rose to power and how the First Order came to be in TFA? Why leave it to the other movies? But no, screw it. TFA shouldn’t have left a mystery box for the other movies to fill.

Sure they could have answered some of these questions in TFA but there was nothing wrong with how they did do it. Trying to blame TFA for TLJ issues is like blaming the OT for the issues the PT creates. As a planned trilogoy, it was Rian Johnson’s responsibility to continue on the themes and story arcs that TFA started but he decided to not only give JJ the middle finger, but the audience as well by subverting every single expectation built in TFA and the years in between and even all the expectations he creates in his own movie. He’s just an outright fuckhead and I hate him for using one of the main saga episodes to make his non-conventional gotcha movie with a Star Wars facade.

.Val

Author
Time

Valheru_84 said:

DominicCobb said:

Anchorhead said:

Hal 9000 said:
… the finished film in isolation would imply to me that he was just not interested in carrying on the themes and setups the previous film gave him to work with.

We’re not the only ones to have an issue with his desire to put the franchise on its ear. There is an interview with Daisy where she says as soon as she read the script she went to Rian and said “we need to have a talk about what’s happening here”.

I wasn’t interested in several parts of JJ’s film, Snoke and Phasma among them. However, Rian just discarding them seems lazy and/or disrespectful to all the work that went into them in TFA; actors, designers, costumers, writers,etc. They were presented as major characters, much to the delight of a huge portion of the fan base. All the fan speculation the past two years was all for nothing.

Rian treated them the way major characters are treated on Game Of Thrones - You found the character and their story interesting? - too bad. That’s the main reason I stopped watching GoT. It became a waste of time. I’m not terribly interested in the ST. But I am glad it’s back in the hands of JJ.

I think the problem here is a misperception. Neither Snoke nor Phasma were a big part in JJ’s film (in fact I’d bet their combined screen time is under 10 minutes). They were only ever important insofar as how they relate to Kylo Ren and Finn’s characters, respectively. I don’t see how RJ betrays that in anyway, all he does is acknowledge that Kylo and Finn have moved beyond them. And killing them isn’t tossing them aside or being respectful to them - honestly both their parts were much more interesting and consequential to the story this time around.

Snoke didn’t have much screen time but it was made obvious that he plays a massive part in the overarching back story as to the events unfolding in the ST.
He’s an integral part to Kylo’s character and made to be a bigger threat than the emperor in TLJ. By killing him off so suddenly without providing any explanation to the no doubt hundreds of various questions people had come up with in the initial viewing and subsequent 2 years wait in between, his threat became a wisp of smoke (Snoke might as well have been as thin as smoke for all the depth he was given in the end)

Why should we care at the end of TLJ if Snoke is a threat? Obviously he isn’t, how could he be, he’s dead.

and by extension massively compromised and lessened both Kylo’s threat and his depth of character due to all the possible branches of story between him and Snoke that much got killed off in the process.

I don’t see how that makes any sense. If you thought he was a bigger threat than the Emperor, and then Kylo killed him, how does that make Kylo less of a threat? It does the literal opposite of that.

I don’t get this “possible branches of story,” it was clear what their relationship was. Snoke turned Kylo to the dark side. Where Snoke came from doesn’t change that fact in any way. What Snoke wanted was for Kylo to be his Vader-like lackey. That was the only future for their story if Snoke lived. Now that he’s dead, Kylo’s story can go anywhere.

Author
Time

DominicCobb said:

Valheru_84 said:
He’s just an outright fuckhead

Okay man, glad to see you’re handling this well.

I’m handling it fine thanks. I just so happen to think RJ has pulled the biggest dick move in SW history (worse than what GL ever did with his SEs and PTs) and I’ll call him out for it.

It seems you can’t follow my train of thought though in being unable to understand what I’m saying so it’s pointless trying to explain it any further as you simply keep not getting it when I do.

.Val

Author
Time

Valheru_84 said:

Phasma never had any real backstory or purpose in either movie and seemed to simply be there to market a shiny new toy. Her character really was useless to the plot of either movie and I couldn’t care less (unfortunately for the actor involved) that she’s supposedly dead, would have preferred her not to even come back in TLJ.

.Val

So was Boba Fett from a certain point of view. 😉

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

Author
Time

SilverWook said:

If these guys aren’t all being sucked out into space, then a similar emergency field around a small door isn’t a stretch.

Seriously people, we’re nitpicking movies where you can hear sounds in space.

They can have shields that allow for open air on the exterior of the Death Star. Its’ that way when the Falcon lands in the first movie too. But in general I agree with your point, the scientific stuff doesn’t need to be nitpicked as long as its not obvious and really dumb. For instance, the asteroids in the asteroid field would never be that close together in real life. And when the Millenium Falcon flips and spins like it does when it turns around on Bespin, all of the occupants would be thrown around and probably incapacitated if not killed.

Author
Time

I don’t know why you guys can’t get along though even if you have different opinions about the movie. It’s better to see civil discussions and disagreements.