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i saw EP 3 for the second time today and i noticed somethings about it so ill answer some questions people have had.

the first thing i noticed was the complant about leia remembering her mother. This is simple the mother that she remembered was not padme, she must have remembered oragnas wife. thats doesnt fit why didnt lucas just have padme live and go and stay on alderaan. well its simple if padme had lived she would have wanted to hide, why would she hide by becoming the queen of aldreean. its funny cause in this case its the info in the OT that is contradicting itself cause in the OT shes sayd her mom was really sad and all which makes you think its padme, but if your Darth Vaders wife why would you hide on a major planet. and have your daughter become so important inthe the senate and so on.

Anakins turn was only part way. after watching the movie a second time and listening to the dialouge i think anakin thought that he could kill pali and so he was going to use pali until learned the power to help padme. after that he would have ride the galaxy of the sith, so at first it was an act but after padme died anakin had nothing, so he turned. that also explains why pali told ani that he had killed her. it would have made anikin doubt himself, since ani was a good person he would have thought 'if i could kill the one i love the most i shouldnt take power because i could kill the galaxy'. even after in the OT Vader always seemed like he had honor to him and that he was good even if he was evil and so he didnt seem like he would do that.

pali and darth plegus, i think darth plegus was palis master, and that whole theory of pali creating anakin is bunk because pali says int he movie, we will rediscover that power. so either anakin was created by pleagus or he was really made by the force.
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Intriguing - especially the Emperor's claim that he will 'rediscover' the power to stop people dying - I though that he ALREADY knew how to do this and was using the premise of him and Anakin uniting to bring him to the Dark Side.

I'm off to view Ep3 again...

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I'd be more willing to accept the she's-a-Force-baby-and-can-somehow-have-newborn-infant-memories theory than the she's-just-remembering-her-adoptive-mother theory. There seem to be two sub theories in this theory. The first, which is the most insane, in my opinion, is "She never knew she was adopted." Now, let's say that's true for a second. Now pretend you're Leia, and you think the Organas are your birth-parents. Now, all of a sudden, Luke comes up to you and asks, "Do you remember your mother...your real mother?" Now, maybe it's just me, but if I was her, it would certainly cause me to turn my head if I had no idea I was adopted. But you, Shimraa, seem to be of the camp that believes that she simply got her memories confused, which, I admit, is a much more feasible theory. I just don't think so for two reasons. If she grew up with Mrs. Organa, I would think she would be able to differentiate between them. I know, it's a pretty weak argument, but it's all I have. The other reason, which makes much more sense is, that it's cinema. A story is being told. All things that happen in a story should happen for a reason. This scene is one of the pivotal scenes in Return of the Jedi. I might believe it today, but I really doubt Lucas would put such an emotional build on this segment only to have it be complete bull. It doesn't serve the story. I mean, this is Luke getting the first and only description he had ever heard of his mother. It completely ruins the mood of the scene if we believe, "Haha, Luke. You think that's your mother? Leia's just confused. You'll just carry those images Leia described to you for the rest of your life and never be the wiser." If this was real life, we could accept that, but since it is a movie, the only way someone would do something like that is if it were revealed at some later moment. So, in my mind, it's simply another prequel continuity error.

And, heh, I got so carried away that I almost forgot about this, about your theory of Padme living on, who is to say that she would have hidden on Alderaan? She didn't need to be on Alderaan for Bail to adopt her the way things play out in Sith. I fully agree that Yoda and Obi-Wan would have been in charge of where to place the kids when their mother died. And, regardless, Padme had no hand in the decision for Leia to join the Imperial Senate. Leia was much older at the point and was just becoming the successor for Bail Organa, and because she was trying to work some of her Rebel Alliance influence into the Senate. As for Vader finding out, the movies already answer that question. Vader never knew that Leia was his daugher until he plucked it from Luke's mind on Death Star II. There was no reason for him to even suspect that Leia was his daughter, so she was perfectly safe in Alderaan's royal family.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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if thats true the why does luke have no memory of her, padme did see luke, cause he came out first.

well for leia to have remebered her padme would have had to be on aldreen, otherwise leia wouldnt have been there.
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Like I said, it just seems like a continuity error to me, as I've used that exact same argument against the Force baby position. As you said, it just doesn't make sense that Leia would and Luke wouldn't. But I have read posts here that say that Leia has a Force connection to Padme while Luke has his connection with Vader. Eh... seems like a stretch, but it's a definitely a possibility. Of course, that's assuming I can choose to accept the Force baby theory anyway. ^_~

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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so what should he have done to match it up.
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Originally posted by: Shimraa
if thats true the why does luke have no memory of her, padme did see luke, cause he came out first.

well for leia to have remebered her padme would have had to be on aldreen, otherwise leia wouldnt have been there.


I'm not quite sure what your mean here, Shimraa. Leia, as a newborn babe, would most likely be wherever her mother would be (provided that her mother was alive). So, if Padme survived the childbirth, there's really no reason to think she would have gone to Alderaan to hide out. If she had survived for a little while, she would have been perfectly fine staying at that base she died at, in my opinion. And then, when Padme did die of whatever she would have died of, then Bail could have taken her. On this line of thinking, my opinion is that Yoda would have sensed that Luke would be the one to redeem his father and gotten him out of the way immediately after he was born with Obi-Wan to Tatooine. And that's why Luke would not have remembered his mother.

And, well, what would could have been done to match it up? Hehe, I guess I just answered that question too. To be honest, comparing my scenario with the one Lucas used, his pacing is better, but it just doesn't match up with what he had already established with the original trilogy. I think mine does... or could anyway, while retaining as many elements from Sith as possible.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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your right yours does, but how are you going to get all that info into movie right at the end.

sry and why would yoda think this way, they are twins after all, meaning that the should be equal.

also you pointed out my point about padme going to aldrean, why would she go there and take care of leia.

also do you know how bad it is to seperate a new born baby from there mother, its very risky, one of the reasons infant mortality rates were s high in the middle ages, cause mothers would die in child birth. i dont think yoda woul dhave taken the chance of sperating padme from luke, if he was the new hope.
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Yeah, that's what I meant when I said that a newborn is usually with her mother. I'm just saying that Yoda and the others might have found it too risky to keep Luke there (the twins never really have been considered equal as it was Luke who destroyed the Death Star and Vader), but rather to send him to a far off remote place guarded by Obi-Wan. Had circumstances permitted, then it would have been safer, I agree, to stay with his mother.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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you know it wasnt really that dangerous vader thought she was dead so he wouldnt have gone looking for her. also looking at what happened in the OT you could say there not equal but at the time how would they know.

i know in the EU its often talked about that if leia would only learn to be jedi she would become as great as luke, its just she has no desire to.
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Well, when Luke leaves Dagobah, Ben seems pretty convinced that it's Luke who is the "last hope", even though he had knowledge of both of the twins. Why he thought that can only be attributed to the Force, I suppose. But when Yoda refers to Leia as the "other" hope, it always sounded to me like she was the backup plan. If Luke happened to be killed, then Leia could take over. Because, throughout the OT, no one, not even Yoda, ever really seems to be interested in actually training Leia in the Force. I kinda wish it had come up, though, since the "there is another" revelation really seems to be a letdown since Leia doesn't seem to live up to that cryptic reference in Return of the Jedi.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Shimraa, so what if their twins? First off they are fraternal not identical. Second, while i guess it could (and does) happen, twins dont grow up exactly alike...so even going that the force is 'inherited' and from midichlorians it doenst necessarily follow that they are equal in their force abilities...this is an even stronger arguement without midichlorians.

plus like you said, if Leia has no desire she wont possibly become as powerful. All this taken into account why couldnt Yoda sense more potential in Luke?

as far as seperating them and how hard it would be to take them away from Padme at birth I agree, but that aspect was always present ever since Luke's comment to Leia on Endor, I think most people just overlooked it because we never saw the birth. I think Luke having a connection to his father and Leia having a connection to her mother works. but I still think that Padme should have lived for a period of time.

also, this is a stretch, but since it would be so hard to get Padme to give up both her kids they could have moved just one (let her keep the other, a compromise of sorts) in case Vader found Padme and Leia, Luke would still be safe (but really how safe would/could he be with his uncle if Vader knew about him and went looking? But Anakin also didnt know there were twins, so after he found one he might have stopped looking and the Jedi would still have Luke as an ace up their sleeve. Also, you keep saying that Vader thought Padme was dead, this is true, we know it, but remember its a movie, you see it from the outside...how do Yoda and Ben know that this is what Vader thinks. Also, from this aspect, for all they know Anakin is dead as well. But they dont know what the Emperor knows, and actually either do we, all we know is the Emperor lies to Vader and says that he killed Padme.

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Well, when Luke leaves Dagobah, Ben seems pretty convinced that it's Luke who is the "last hope", even though he had knowledge of both of the twins. Why he thought that can only be attributed to the Force, I suppose. But when Yoda refers to Leia as the "other" hope, it always sounded to me like she was the backup plan. If Luke happened to be killed, then Leia could take over. Because, throughout the OT, no one, not even Yoda, ever really seems to be interested in actually training Leia in the Force. I kinda wish it had come up, though, since the "there is another" revelation really seems to be a letdown since Leia doesn't seem to live up to that cryptic reference in Return of the Jedi.


see thats the whole thing behind my idea that luke and leia being equal or if not close to equal.