Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo — Page 261

In a serious reply to darth_ender, I think my gripe with the Republican Party prior to the rise of Trump was not that Republicans were badly-educated, it was that there was an anti-intellectual bent even among some undeniably well-educated Republicans (there’s always been that element in American politics, it’s moved back and forth between parties, and it’s not exclusively Republican even today). Lack of expertise/knowledge/experience was seen as a net positive. That is simply a problem. It leads to… well, it leads to now.

I miss Bush I, really I do. Not that I really agreed with the man on very much, but he didn’t see ignorance as a virtue, and that’s the basis of a decent political system. I feel similarly about Romney (and it gives me something resembling hope that he outpolled Trump, even if he lost).

EDIT: To be clear, I also have problems with Republicans post-Trump, but I didn’t elaborate on that because I think we’re clearly in agreement.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/ar-BBBaWuJ

So this is a thing.

President Trump revealed highly classified information to the Russian foreign minister and ambassador in a White House meeting last week, according to current and former U.S. officials, who said Trump’s disclosures jeopardized a critical source of intelligence on the Islamic State.

The information the president relayed had been provided by a U.S. partner through an intelligence-sharing arrangement considered so sensitive that details have been withheld from allies and tightly restricted even within the U.S. government, officials said.

The partner had not given the United States permission to share the material with Russia, and officials said Trump’s decision to do so endangers cooperation from an ally that has access to the inner workings of the Islamic State. After Trump’s meeting, senior White House officials took steps to contain the damage, placing calls to the CIA and the National Security Agency.

I don’t even think he’s malicious about it. He’s just a moron who wants to lord things over people.

I’m guessing the number of his supporters that go ballistic and chant “lock him up!” over his mishandling of classified information will be exactly zero.

Weird. I read that post, too.

Sorry, but hey it bears repeating.

Thank god we don’t have Hillary and her emails in there, though! Dang!

darth_ender said:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/05/14/upshot/if-americans-can-find-north-korea-on-a-map-theyre-more-likely-to-prefer-diplomacy.html

I’m no longer a Republican, but still identify as conservative. While there is no doubt that Republicans are generally less educated than Democrats, there seems to be an overly-simplistic assumption on the part of many liberals that Republicans are, by and large, a bunch of dumb hicks. More generally, there is a consensus that, by virtue of having more education, liberals are automatically right about all policies where the two sides of the spectrum differ. I even saw an inspiring comment from a liberal here saying that liberals should not be so condescending to conservatives, yet still acknowledging that liberalism is always right.

The above article actually demonstrates that Republicans are more likely to know where North Korea is and favor less militaristic solutions to the complex situation there. Also associated with these items was higher education. My point to this is that there are intelligent, level-headed people on the Right. Yes, we’ve got a large basket of Trump-voting nutjobs who refuse to see anything he says or does as bad, but we also have people who are well educated and favor diplomacy. Don’t overgeneralize.

I tend to agree with you on the matter of now referring to myself as more of an conservative rather than a republican. But then again I still do have a fair share of ideals/beliefs that wouldn’t be considered conservative since I support the legalization of gay marriage, marijuana, among a few other things. However I am primarily a fiscal conservative.

This is the issue with the two party system. It forces every individual to choose a side when in reality, each of us has our own set of complex ideals, opinions, and morals. We should treat someone as an individual rather than a Democrat or a Republican.

Wrong thread. My apologies.

darthrush said:

This is the issue with the two party system. It forces every individual to choose a side when in reality, each of us has our own set of complex ideals, opinions, and morals. We should treat someone as an individual rather than a Democrat or a Republican.

Completely agree mate.

On a slight tangent, those in power have eroded the power of our vote over the years - in many places around the world. A PR (proportional representation) voting system would sure give each and every voter a more democratic say on who, we the public, elect - and ensure politicians have to campaign for everyone, everywhere - and not just doing it in, and spending money on, ‘swing states’ or ‘heartland areas’.

A ‘third way’ (and 4th, 5th, 6th etc 😃) alternative would likely pop up and have the possibility of each being more prominent - and although the two main parties may not like it - and would likely resist it - it is a more democratic, a fairer, and a system that would likely encourage and appeal to more of the public than the two-party systems in place we have now^.

^ not that PR is an ideal or perfect system - any system will have it’s flaws.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/05/16/trump-acknowledges-facts-shared-with-russian-envoys-during-white-house-meeting/

As the White House denies everything, Trump tweets that he had every right to share whatever he wanted with the Russians.

Jetrell Fo said:

Tyrphanax said:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/ar-BBBaWuJ

So this is a thing.

President Trump revealed highly classified information to the Russian foreign minister and ambassador in a White House meeting last week, according to current and former U.S. officials, who said Trump’s disclosures jeopardized a critical source of intelligence on the Islamic State.

The information the president relayed had been provided by a U.S. partner through an intelligence-sharing arrangement considered so sensitive that details have been withheld from allies and tightly restricted even within the U.S. government, officials said.

The partner had not given the United States permission to share the material with Russia, and officials said Trump’s decision to do so endangers cooperation from an ally that has access to the inner workings of the Islamic State. After Trump’s meeting, senior White House officials took steps to contain the damage, placing calls to the CIA and the National Security Agency.

I don’t even think he’s malicious about it. He’s just a moron who wants to lord things over people.

I’m guessing the number of his supporters that go ballistic and chant “lock him up!” over his mishandling of classified information will be exactly zero.

Considering that nowhere in the article does it actually prove this happened or in the exact way they said it happened I’d be leery no matter which side I supported. I am going to wait and see before passing any judgement because there just aren’t enough facts to make an informed decision either way.

Or, like my article points out, he bragged about it on Twitter. So it definitely happened. “I know so many secrets as President, you wouldn’t believe. You want to know some of them, Mr Ambassador?”