spoRv

Today I was thinkering with the "pyramid" LD capture, and, when I was looking for the files, I encountered an old test script for upscaling, abandoned two years ago. Idea was good, so I managed to improve it - as now I have more knowledge than at that time - and results are quite good.

The idea is simple: take two captures of the same content, one PAL, one NTSC, then merge them to "squeeze" every bit of details from it... everyone knows that a PAL capture has 576 horizontal lines, while NTSC has 480... now, when a movie was transferred to video, usually original resolution was higher than that (not all the times, but often); so, the PAL and NTSC "received" different lines of image... see the next image (obviously intentionally exagerated...):

As you can see, the red, green and blue lines have different thickness in PAL and NTSC; the aim of this technique is to combine those different lines to recreate an image closer to the original one.

To test my theory, I took some high definition images, resized each dimension to 1/3 to simulate NTSC, and to 2/5 to simulate PAL, then I wrote a script to mix and upscale the simulated PAL and NTSC images. Here you are the close-ups of the results; PAL and NTSC are the simulated images upscaled with pointresize, PALup and NTSCup are upscaled using a bicubicresize, to simulate a simple upscaler, PaNup is my script (oh, how much I love acronyms - PaNup=PAL and NTSC upscaled) - no noise reduction is used:

(you can download original, simulated PAL and NTSC, and PaNup images here - 14MB)

Of course, the validity of this tests are questionable, as the PAL and NTSC images are simulated; nevertheless, these give an idea of what could be achieved using "simple and poor" low definition media, like VHS or better laserdisc, and DVD too! Not HDTV, OK, but still quite a good result.

The problem is, in real life, it's close to impossible to find a movie which has a PAL and NTSC version that match each other 100% - usually they use different masters, so cropping and color grading are different... but, in those almost-impossilbe cases where a PAL and a NTSC laserdisc (and VHS) are virtually the same, the ideal condition is to capture the PAL at 768x576 and the NTSC at 640x480 (actual letterbox images at 2.35:1 will be 768x326 and 640x272, at 1.85 will be 768x416 and 640x346); if the capture card could capture at 720x576/480, only the Y axis will benefit - this is also the case of DVD.

Real life test could be found in this thread.

I'm resurrecting my old thread to post some news.

As I've done "The Thing" project lately, and results were not bad, I thought to use the same technique to color grading the "pyramid" captures.

Here you are a screenshot; first "pyramid" as is, second with noise reduction and color matching my [ruLes] project (click for bigger version):

a clip is available HERE

Still not perfect, but waaay better than before, don't you think?

PDB said:

Does anyone have the LD's PCM soundtracks (synced or not synced) for Jaws and Escape from New York? They were mentioned heavily in the remix thread and I wanted to see if anyone had already worked on them. I don't have either of the laserdiscs and would love to hear them.

I have both laserdiscs (Jaws Signature Collection box set, Escape from New York Special Edition) but still not captured them. But be sure I'll do for one of them, for one of my next projects...

@Flexicon9: I answered your question (quoted) in this other thread, that is more appropriated, to not derail too much this very thread - I saw you answered there, so I assume I made the right thing.

@Chewtobacca: I agree with you that results will never be absolutely perfect, even if I and/or many other people will take years and correct it by hand, scene by scene, frame by frame.

What I'd like to achieve is not perfection (well, at the end is what everyone would like, but know that often is not possible), but the best compromise that could be accomplished by a human being in a human time - some spare hours stolen from family/other hobbies/sleep/felines - so, as I declared and you agreeded, the best solution is number 2.

About the techniques to use, I am "agnostic"... RGBMatch could be a good color matching script, but even if it solves the light artifacts present in some scenes using CM, its color matching is far from perfection; ColourLikeFBF is a very good choice in a lot of instances, but has its own problems. too. A mix of them could indeed solve a lot (if not all) of those problems, but at the end the testing is consisting in how much (by eye) colors are closer or not to the DVD, as, in this project, the DVD is the color reference. I would add that "The Matrix" is really difficult to match not only because colors are totally different, but also contrast and brightness...

Yes, the difference from a setting and another (or a different technique) could seems subtle, but I assure you that this is not the case, at least in a lot of scenes, and people will note it - not all, but a good fraction here in this forum - look at what thay said about "The Thing", and I'm afraid they were right, so it is why I'm so *picky* with this project...

So, a little help from some users here will be very welcome, and speed up a lot this project; and think a lot more are waiting "in the closet" - indeed, they are waiting that I delete the temp files used by this project, because they need that HDD space... (^^,)

OK, time to sleep (a bit) now, it's 1:37 a.m. here and an oldie like me should have been in the bed three hours ago...

taken from "The Matrix" thread, I took the liberty of quoting it here as it's more appropriate:

Flexicon9 said:

Hi Andrea... thanks for your efforts on The Matrix.  It looks like your doing a fine job and I would like to second Stamper's request for Mad Max 2 (The Road Warrior) as well, but I wanted to bring one last thing to your attention because it is just coming to light with a new release.  The film I speak of is the 1978 original Halloween from director John Carpenter.  I don't know if you've read any feedback regarding the new 35th anniversary Blu-ray disc that is already shipping but is officially being release next week.  Anyway, years ago cinematographer Dean Cundey approved a THX transfer of the film for the Limited Edition DVD 2-disc set.  It had color-timing supervised by Adam Adams and featured beautiful amber and blue hues that put new life into the film as we know it.  It was somewhat revisionist, but based on what the original intentions might have been with better technology at the time.  That THX DVD transfer has been celebrated by fans since its release in 1999.  In 2007, the first Blu-ray disc for Halloween 1978 was released to mixed reviews.  The clarity and detail were praised, but the colors were way different than the '99 THX DVD.  The strong blue cast of the night-time shots were washed away to a starry white and the amber/orange warmth of Autumn were nowhere to be found.  Not as much anyway.  Amber became more green and the glow lost its luster.  The creepy blue night vanished and it just wasn't the moody horror film we knew from the THX DVD version in '99.  I know you have projects piled up, but please consider one day taking a look at the process of creating a high definition version of Halloween with the THX '99 DVD colors restored.  That would be a miracle.  From what I've read, the new 35th anniversary Blu-ray has washed away even more color than the 2007 Blu-ray release.  Based on what you did with Carpenter's "The Thing" I know you're the man to see about this.  Thanks for thinkin' about it though.

First of all thank you! It's good receive positive feedbacks on one of my projects!

Well, I think it will be better to *actually* watch the new BD version before deciding if it should be regraded or not... what if it has the right color grading? We are all happy, and I have one less project to make! (^^,) Actually, any John Carpenter movie that should be color regraded gain my attention, and "The Thing" is only the first, watch out!

During the last days of testing with "The Matrix", I managed to improve a bit my color matching script, and, following the hints from some members, about the fact that "The Thing [spoRv]" has dull colors in some instances, I re-checked and re-compared the LD and the spoRved version, and I agree with them. I mean, the version I made is [proud mode on] very good [proud mode off], especially in comparison with the BD, but still not as close to LD as I wanted... with the new script, and some adjustment, it seems that I could release a version 2.0 that will be [poser mode on] perfect [poser mode off].

Thanks for the encouragement - MM2 should wait, but not too long... (^^,)

Instead of checking the ColourMatch artifacts (shame on me), I continued to test the new script, to replace the scenes with artifacts... well, here you are the screenshots:

An example of mild artifacts on lights - on DVD, you could see the bulb, on CM the white light is, ehr, not white and full of strange speckles? At least on CMnew speckles are gone, and is whiter than CM...

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Here the artifacts on light are really noticeable on CM, while CMnew are "bearable" (at least, seen in motion are not evident), but colors are not perfect as CM.

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This is one of the few scenes where CM is really ugly; CMnew is bad, but still watchable. I think this could be fixed only using the DVD "as is", or simply using the BD luma and DVD chroma - further tests are needed...

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"The Matrix" is really HARD to regrading... there will be hundred scenes to check, and I spent (and I should spend more in the near future) hours testing to find the best solutions to fix the scenes with artifacts...

Conclusion: I should make a decision, between these solutions;

Solution 1) Use ColourMatchNew for the whole movie - it *should* prevent any bad artifacts, leaving only some "minor" ones, but colors will not be so close to DVD, let's say it will have 80% of the scene with 90% color accuracy, and 20% from 95% to 99%.

Solution 2) Use ColourMatch for the whole movie (that leads color accuracy to 98%/99% for almost all the scenes) AND fix the scenes with artifacts using ColourMatchNew - or DVD (needed for at least a scene, two/three seconds long, maybe others), or using BD luma + DVD chroma (like in the last screenshot), or other method still not tested or discovered...

Obviously, solution 1 is the fastest - if I'll start the conversion right now, it will be ready in two/three days (just the time my poor old PC convert it); is the fastest dirty job, and will be more than good, in comparison with the BD.

...and the wrong one, to me... solution 2 IS the only acceptable one, if I want to reach the best result in reasonable time... I mean, the BEST solution is to take the BD and correct it frame by frame (or scene by scene) by hand, but it will take literally years, and I'm not sure if the final result will be better than solution 2...

So, where is the problem? Just check the whole movie treated with ColourMatch, spot the scenes where there are artifacts, test which technique is better to avoid them, then replace those scenes... well, the process is right, but I have few time now, and testing each scene with different techniques take a looong time... so, here I am to ask for your help!

I'm going to split the movie in four parts, and produce for each a split screen version (DVD with frame number and ColourMatch), compressed with X.264 to stay around 500MB for each part. I need a volunteer (or more than one) that will check the split version, and note the frame numbers of the first and last frame of the scene with artifacts. It will take few hours for each part, and those hours spared will help me to concentrate into testing the best technique to use.

OK, any volunteer that want to spend some hours playing a part of the split screen version of "The Matrix", pause it, go back for few (or many) frames until the beginning of a scene, note the frame number, press play again, and repeat this action a hundred (or more) times? Anyone? (^^,)

Obviously if nobody could help me, I understad, we all have a life anyway... nevertheless, I'll do it anyway by myself, but it will take some days (well, weeks) more... but I'm pretty sure someone will be helpful, so I'm going to upload part 1 right now - I trust the members of this forum!

Thanks in advance for your cooperation!

If someone was worried about this project, I'm here to say that is still alive, just... spleeping a bit... (^^,) vacation went quite OK, not perfect, but at least I had some rest... it's a pity I was 1000 miles away from home, and I spent no time on my beloved projects...

Well, today I've checked the scenes with artifacts, and, as the BD has (a lot of) blooming whites, whenever there is a light in the scene, there is at least a frame with artifacts... this means that I should use another kind of technique not only for the frame, but for the whole scene...

For now, I'm only checking the scenes, and I'm slowly progressing - I'm around 20%, I know, I'm slow, but I'm working on other projects too, I have a life, a family, a job, and a lot of cats to cuddle and care all the time (think of them like a feline version of "The Wild Bunch" and you got the idea...)

Probably I'll finish the job next week, but please don't rely on this at 100%... really probably, not sure... stay tuned nevertheless!

I know, I know, laserdisc PCM soundtracks should be left "as is" (when possible, because they must be converted at least to 48KHz to be BD/DVD/AVCHD compliant), but I did my projects with several soundtracks in different languages, and I guess I could spare a little bit of disc space compressing them, and leave video more space. You know, adding four PCM soundtracks could "eat" something like 9/10GB disc space, and leave only 15GB to video in a BD-25...

As there are wonderful LD AC3 5.1 discrete soundtracks (and they are all 384kbps), I think a PCM 2.0 could be compressed with little or no artifacts at 640kbps (for BD/AVCHD) or 448kbps (for DVD) - or even less. I thought also to use DTS, but to achieve a similar quality I should compress at higher bitrates, and AC3 decoder are a little more spread than DTS ones.

Ideally, it could be converted to DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHD, but I know no software (free and/or open source) that could do that, and these kind of decoders are less spread than AC3 and DTS...

Opinions?

I mean, which LD in particular - LDDB catalog number?

AFAIK, there is no Director's Cut laserdisc, hence it could not be in sync with the D-Theater video (that is the DC, right?). Is it possible to take an LD soundtrack, splice it here and there to match the DC, and take the missing pieces from the DVD/BD to fill the holes, but it will be so time consuming...

I spent an entire day (the so-called "Alien LD AC3 Sunday") to capture the LD, try to sync it to BD, recapture the LD (with right settings this time), try to re-sync it to BD, recapture the LD scenes with missing frames, re-sync those scenes... it worth the work, because at the end the result is an untouched AC3 soundtrack, taken from the 70mm version, and it ROCKS!

If I will do it, I'll prefer to do two versions, one theatrical cut with LD soundtrack(s), and one director's cut, with D-Theater/DVD/BD soundtracks. What do you think?

dvdmike said:

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

dvdmike said:

DoomBot said:

Is there a high bitrate D-theater version out there?

There is 

 

EDIT just looked and it looks like the ENG version has vanished but there is an ITA version

Yep, it's the one I have... video is untouched, it has just the english soundtrack removed, replaced with italian soundtrack instead.

Does the audio track we have (4.0) sync?

Which audio track in particular are you referring to? I'd like to use the D-Theater video for a preservation project, so I'll search for any interesting soundtracks to add to it.

dvdmike said:

DoomBot said:

Is there a high bitrate D-theater version out there?

There is 

 

EDIT just looked and it looks like the ENG version has vanished but there is an ITA version

Yep, it's the one I have... video is untouched, it has just the english soundtrack removed, replaced with italian soundtrack instead.

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Some comparisons on youtube

Jurassic Park:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8nBo4yJUxA

Superman II:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tctD3gLesmo

Evil Dead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeaLiJVvy1c

The Ten Commandments:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8g32OZjKgE

Night of the Living Dead (1990):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6MZnqPnTxU

35US$ shipped to me... what do you think? By the way, is it possible to avoid the MPEG2 encoder, and capture lossless/uncompressed, right?

AntcuFaalb said:

Also, forgot to add: No strings. You can keep the card in exchange for the testing.

Really? Count me in! (^^,) You know, I love testing, and I miss another kind of capture card...

Movie: The Thing

Format: Signature Collection Laserdisc 42654 

Input Soundtrack: PCM 2.0 Dolby Surround 44.1 khz, 16-bit, Bit Perfect 

Output Soundtrack: PCM 2.0 Dolby Surround 48 khz, 16-bit 

Synced To: UK HD-DVD (should be OK for US HD-DVD and BD too)

Ripped/Sync'd by: Jonno

Notes: Original remix, different from latest HD-DVD/BD

(available for download right now, PM me if interested)

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Movie: The Thing

Format: French PAL laserdisc PLFFB 33061

Input Soundtrack: PCM 2.0 Dolby Surround 44.1 khz, 16-bit, non Bit Perfect 

Output Soundtrack: PCM 2.0 Dolby Surround 48 khz, 16-bit 

Synced To: UK HD-DVD (should be OK for US HD-DVD and BD too)

Ripped by: ilovewaterslides / Sync'd by: _,,,^..^,,,_

Notes: French language

To the user who has contacted me lately on PM: as my PM space was full, I deleted some messages, including his ones... so, please contact me again via PM so I could answer to your last message... sorry for the inconvenience! (**-)

I resurrected this very old thread because I found out that all six episodes are over 100GB!

Here are the names of the files I found - not able to download them, though, as the torrents has no seeds and I can't use usenet:

c-sw1h264/Star.Wars.I.The.Phantom.Menace.1080p.h264.dd51.de.en.dc.ts (17.78 Gb)
c-sw2h264/Star.Wars.II.Attack.Of.The.Clones.1080p.h264.dd51.de.en.dc.ts (18.42 Gb)
c-sw3h264/Star.Wars.III.Revenge.Of.The.Sith.1080p.h264.dd51.de.en.dc.ts (17.62 Gb)
c-sw4h264/Star.Wars.IV.A.New.Hope.1080p.h264.dd51.de.en.dc.ts (15.79 Gb)
c-sw5h264/Star.Wars.V.The.Empire.Strikes.Back.1080p.h264.dd51.de.en.dc.ts (16.61 Gb)
c-sw6h264/Star.Wars.VI.The.Return.Of.The.Jedi.1080p.h264.dd51.de.en.dc.ts (17.41 Gb)

maybe someone could still be interested...

I tested the BD-RE onto several BD players, and it worked flawlessy. According to one of my colleagues, that has seen "The Thing", or, better, "La Cosa" many times on TV; "colors are like how I remember them from TV broadcasts of '80s and '90s, and are not so dull as you told me... I like it!"

If someone who could author BD with menus would like to help me, I think "The Thing [spoRv 2.0]" could be done with a little color more, along with animated menus, a remastered HD trailer, and some interesting extras in an additional BD-25.

I released my ANH:SE project - take a look at this post for the differences with GKAR version.

Now I have learnt new technical approaches and could release a better version, but as there is so little interest in it, I don't think I'll make the next two episodes - or, at least, not so soon...

I just finished to burn it - it's my first BD burnt, hurrah! To have this disc into my hands, it's different than have it into the hard disc, is... well, another... "thing"!

Well, I used IMGburn, and it took THREE hours to format the disc (a BD-RE), and THREE hours to burn it... is it normal?!?!?

I tested in my PC and all seems OK; tomorrow I'll test it in some BD players.

I like this thread, and think it should deserve its own database. Here you are my last capture - it will be released soon:

Movie: Alien

Format: Laserdisc 876085

Input Soundtrack: Dolby Digital AC3 5.1 48KHz 16bit, bit perfect

Output Soundtrack: untouched - BD/DVD/AVCHD compliant

Synced To: 2010 Blu-ray Release Region A Theatrical Edition

Ripped/Synced by: _,,,^..^,,,_

Notes: Sound remastered from the 6-track magnetic masters of an early 70mm mix and contain alternative lines of dialog.

AntcuFaalb said:

Also, an easy way to get the device to invert the phase is to turn it off and then on again.

So, if you want to test this...

Do a capture, turn everything off, and then turn everything on again and do another capture.

If that doesn't do it, then turn everything off and try again.

Repeat until you get a capture with inverted phase. It sometimes requires several captures until you get two with a 180-degree phase difference.

Interesting... so, I pass the LD video out to a DVD recorder in, then DVD recorder out to the video capture card in, I have the first capture; then I switch off everything, do a second capture, average the two and obtain a chroma noise free result, right?

How could I check the second capture has inverted phase? I mean, with a test disc it's quite obvious, but with real moving pictures?

I thought to do this: capture the test disc, then capture the LD; switch off everything, capture the test disc, check if the phase is inverted; if so, I continue and capture the LD, if not, I repeat until the phase is inverted. This is the best technique I have in mind... the only downside is I have no PAL test disc, so I can't apply this to PAL LDs... (**/)

dvdmike, here you are... Alien: D-Theater Vs BD Vs LD

D-Theater has the best color grading (IMHO) and also more pictures information on sides in comparison to BD.

Alien:

no, the last image is not inverted... (^^,)

Even if I agree with all of you about the fact that a preservation/restoration etc. should be propagated around the web to keep it alive, we are out of topic now...

I thought we need to distinguish between a mere preservation (capture from analog video, scan from movie, rip from niche digital video) and a preservation with some sort of restoration...

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1b) Fan Enhanced Preservation (provisional name)

The same as fan preservation, but with some sort of enhancement (noise reduction, conversion from letterbox to anamorphic) not as extensive as a restoration.

1c) Fan Restored Preservation (provisional name)

The same as fan preservation, but with extensive enhancement, the same level of a fan restoration - the only difference is the fact that the preservation has not a BROAD digital release (yet)

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I think the reconstruction should be deleted, and instead a fan recreation could be considered a sub set of a restoration.

2b) Fan Recreation

The most meticolous kind of restoration; it attempts to restore a film version closest to its original theatrical release, using various video sources (also different from the film itself like trailers, documentaries, and even other films), applying every kind of restoration work, and more, to obtain the best restoration ever possible. For example, where a restoration will use a one-for-all technique for the whole movie, the reconstruction will use the best technique for each scene or eventually single frames.

3) (deleted)

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I don't know if restored extended edition should have its own subcategory below extended edition, or could be considered as a subcategory of restoration.

***

4b) Fan Restored Extended Edition (provisional name)

The same as fan extended edition, but the restoration is applied to the main features and extended scenes as well.

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It will be better to drop the word bootleg

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7) Workprints

Low quality cams/telecines/VHS captures of alternative workprint versions or lost theatrical cuts.

I have problems sometimes about mux/demux... here is the list of software I usually use to mux and/or demux:

• TSmuxeR
• TSRemux
• GDSmux
• AviDemux

hope one of these will work!