sherlockpotter

Jar Jar Bricks said:

omnimuffin said:

Hal 9000 said:

Just sent the auralnauts a cordial message asking if they’d be at all interested.

It seems like if we did redub 3PO, it would open the question of how Kylo knew to go to Endor. Although, honestly… it’s hard to care too much about it anyway. The film doesn’t answer this other than allowing one to guess Kylo also had it translated. It does, however, establish then and there that Kylo “know[s] where she’s going” at least. That would be missing from this cut. It seems like the cost for reinstating it here would be to also reinstate the premature reveal that Chewie is alive.

Another issue is that 3PO translating the inscription doesn’t give the characters any solid information. In the theatrical, it provided important information and the heroes had to have both that knowledge and the blade itself. In this proposed plot revision, they would essentially only learn that they… need to get the blade back. All they’d learn is that Rey needs to tap into darkness somehow. Feels a little muddy.

It does seem like this muddies the movie more than it cleans it up. Personally, I’d just accept the doofy Goonies-style treasure clues as a cheesy but essential element of the movie and leave that portion relatively intact, because much of the movie is structured around them.

No kidding. Nobody says “well now we have to get the dagger back” after 3PO’s message plays (in fact, they seem more happy about the message than anything since Babu celebrates). Furthermore, Finn even questions why Rey is heading off to explore the ship by saying “Chewie is this way.” Never at one point do the characters say “go look for the dagger.” It’s always “We’re coming, Chewie” and “go save your friend”.

It’s honestly quite mind-boggling how much this movie relies on the dagger giving an exact answer.

Does Babu give a frak that the Wayfinder is on Endor? I thought he just cheers because his hack worked.

And all you’d need to do is swap in some new Poe dialogue. From:

Rey: We need the dagger.
Poe: Why?
Rey: A feeling.

To:

Rey: We need the dagger.
Poe: You know where?
Rey: A feeling.

Like I’ve said, I just don’t see how the dagger translation not explicitly telling them what to do is more contrived than an ancient Sith Artifact listing the exact coordinates of the 30-year-old Death Star.

Knight of Kalee said:

sherlockpotter said:

What gets me I think is the sheer laziness of it though. Come up with some unique designs, rather than painting the leftover outfits you pulled out of storage.

TROS took the sequel aesthetic of just revamping classic OT designs and turned it up to eleven.

Honestly, if they had used classic Stormtrooper designs, but painted red, at least that would have been a fun little callback (and would have made more sense with the Palpatine angle). But they couldn’t even be bothered to remake the old designs! They just reused some old First Order armor, so they’re ripping off of their own movie.

EDIT: Sade, personally, I think your fix there looks so much better. Nice!

Yeah, yeah, I get it. Star Wars is no stranger to merchandising. What gets me I think is the sheer laziness of it though. Come up with some unique designs, rather than painting the leftover outfits you pulled out of storage. Like, seeing all of those cool vehicles in the Prequels makes me think “Wow, that would be a fun LEGO set” or whatever. I want an AT-TE or a Hailfire Droid! Seeing the red armor in TROS just makes me think, “Wow, this was really the best the art department could come up with? A half-red helmet? …Neat-o.”

Or maybe if it were more of a blood-red, rather than “plastic fire engine” red? It just looks cheap to me, I’m sorry.

Speaking of the Sith Army-whatever, does anyone else really hate the new red armor variations? The red stormtroopers are pretty bad on their own, but the Sith Technicians, with their goofy, half-red, half-black helmets are just ridiculous to me. It looks so cheap and lame.

The whole thing just screams “merchandise” to me. “Look at all of the new toys we can manufacture! It’s the same model as the First Order troopers, just with some red paint on the helmet! Hey kids, Halloween costumes are ready to go!” It took me right out of the movie when I first saw it, with how obviously it was just a marketing gimmick; I felt like I was watching a toy ad, rather than a film.

I wonder if it would be possible to recolor the armor black? I feel like that would look classier and less like cheap plastic. Where do you even get red dye on Exegol anyway? The entire freaking planet is blue!!

(Oh wait, I’m sorry, I didn’t realize that the red armor is made out of gammaplast, instead of the First Order betaplast armor. I take back everything I said about it looking like cheap knockoffs to sell toys. There’s lore to support it. 🙄)

sade1212 said:

Is it possible to cut every single mention of the “Final Order” in favour of it just being called the fleet/the Sith fleet/Palpatine’s fleet or whatever? The whole First Order + Sith Eternal = Final Order thing just seems unnecessarily complex (especially since the movie never mentions the Sith Eternal by name, nor does it particularly illuminate where all those people dressed in red came from at all)… and more importantly, every time I hear the words ‘Final Order’, my brain begins to vibrate. I normally love that kind of campy cheese, but in a movie already struggling so much to come across as sincere rather than ridiculous, it really doesn’t help.

jadenkorr41 said:

What the galaxy has heard was “the final order begins” as in, in the galaxy’s POV, they dont know the final order is an organization, they think it’s a revolution/time era change.

Wow, this makes so much more sense - having the Final Order refer to the new Imperial Age rather than some dumbass voodoo-Death-Star armada. And I think the only line you’d need to cut would be Poe’s “He calls [the fleet] the ‘Final Order.’”

“The Resistance is dead. The Sith flame will burn. All worlds, surrender or die. [My new magic Sith Fleet] begins.”

Goddamn, I hate this movie lol.

RogueLeader said:

EDIT: I personally think the vision/glimpses would need to be on the more subtle side, if we did it.

Subtlety? In a J.J. Abrams film?

But in all seriousness, I don’t think a subtle vision would jive within an Abrams film. He’s all about that big action, frenetic camera work, and chaotic sequences. And his vision sequences especially are such violent affairs. Look at Kirk’s Mind Meld in Star Trek (2009). Or Rey’s Sith Throne Vision.

I think a great comparison is Rey’s visions in The Force Awakens vs. The Last Jedi. Rian Johnson came up with this quiet, eerie, mysterious sequence dripping with symbolism. J.J.’s scene involves eight scene changes, assassinations, rotating corridors, burning buildings, screaming children being sold into slavery…

Not to say that one is good and one is bad, just that I’d be worried about how well a “subtle” vision would fit with the rest of J.J.’s style.

My thinking on the RogueLeader Dagger plan was that it would sort of be like National Treasure. You know how they found the cypher on the Declaration of Independence, and that cypher told them what to do in order to read the map that was also on the Declaration? But then they lose the Declaration and have to get it back before they can put the pieces together? Kind of like that here. The visible inscription would say “You must [do this] in order to see the Wayfinder’s location,” so then they have to get the Dagger back and do the thing in order to make it work properly.

Now, I’m not saying that National Treasure is the greatest, smartest movie ever made; but I do think that that’s a hell of a lot less stupid and contrived that an Ancient Sith Dagger pointing to this thingy that only happened 30 years ago. (Or worse, that f*cking Ochi carved the location into the Dagger for some stupid-ass reason.)

What I’m thinking is: slow down the shot of Rey approaching the Dagger in Kylo’s quarters - less a hasty walk and more of a solemn approach. When she picks it up, cut to the shot of the Wayfinder in Palp’s closet, flash to a shot of the throne room. Cut back to Rey, looking at the Dagger, as the camera zooms in. Back to vision, see the wreckage of the Death Star II, flash to the Death Star II, maybe as it appeared in ROTJ, cut back to Rey, still zooming in. Show a flash of Exegol, and then flash-forward to Palpatine, resurrected, sucking the lifeforce out of Rey and Kylo and cackling maniacally. Cut back to Rey - the camera has stopped zooming, but it’s a closeup of her face (rather than the medium shot in the theatrical - we can crop in on the 4K source) and have her say “No…” to actually seeing Palpatine resurrected. And, in this final shot of Rey, her eyes will have gone Dark Side yellow. Cut to Rey’s back. Kylo: “Rey…” Rey whips around, distraught, but her eyes back to normal.

I feel like the yellow eyes would help to convey that this time, she’s gone into the Dark Side, and that’s why the Dagger is working now. Cutting back and forth between Death Star stuff and Rey would help focus the scene on Rey, and would help to match the hyper-intensive way J.J. cuts his vision sequences.

Those are just some ideas I’ve been kicking around in my head over the past week or so. Anyone have any thoughts?

EDIT: I also think this makes Kylo knowing about Endor make a lot more sense. It’s much more believable that he was willing to tap into the Dark Side and saw the vision himself, rather than him knowing how to read Ancient Sith or whatever - a language that had been outlawed in the Republic for god-knows how many generations, and a language for which no translations currently exist.

Axlanian, nice job with that Palpatine voice thingy! It’s subtle enough that it’s not too distracting, but you can hear it very clearly if you’re paying attention.

RogueLeader said:

I know originally the suggestion was that the audio would be included with the shot of the Imperial shuttle going through hyperspace, but I think it would also be fitting to show a shot of the Falcon in hyperspace as if it is transmitting the message as it flies around the galaxy, and/or maybe back-to-back establishing shots of random planets, to imply these are some of the places that are receiving the message. It could be a good way to set up planets like Coruscant, Bespin and Naboo revolting at the end of the movie, because they got the message from Lando earlier.

I really like this idea. I’ve been (quietly) opposed to having a shot of Kylo rushing off to Exegol, just because dramatically, I think it works better if he suddenly appears when all hope seems lost; and I wouldn’t want to undermine that by the film telegraphing “Hang on, Rey! Ben is on his way! *heroic trumpet fanfare*” Focusing it on the Falcon makes more sense in my mind. You could even maybe work it into Poe’s little “mission prep” montage as the Resistance is gearing up, a bit after Lando and Chewie enter the Falcon. “This is our last stand, for the galaxy… [We need your help. The rally point coordinates are transmitting…] For Leia…” Blah blah blah.

Nev, it’s looking really fantastic! Two things stand out to me though:

• Looking at the clouds in the new shot, compared to the clouds in Ascendant, I think the new shot needs to be a bit more pinky/orangy? I feel like it’s not a 100% match yet.
• I still personally would opt to keep the original forest flyover shot in the sequence. Like I’ve said before, it’s the shot that feels most connected to the action on the ground, so it’s the shot that truly feels like the bridge into the action. Especially if there aren’t going to be any visible TIEs in the Castle shot, I think there needs to be a visual connection between the ships flying down to the planet, and the ships reaching the forest. (Before we actually land in the forest.)

Also, was someone working on darkening the ground in the theatrical Mustafar footage? Doing a side-by-side of Nev’s new shot and the V1 footage, the difference in color tone is…apparent.

CaptainFaraday said:

In that case, I think it’s worth searching around a bit before locking it off. I’ll see if I can find an excuse to watch the movies and try to pick anything useful out.

Cap, if you find any candidates, I’ll happily give them a go; I did try several options though on my own, and none of them worked. Either they didn’t match her tone, or other words/sounds were blending into the “a” sound, leading to an even choppier final product.

Burbin said:

I was referring more to the timing and the way he stitched the shot to avoid cutting to Rey in the middle of the line, I think it works pretty seamless and flows nicely.

Are you talking about the video cutting from the lightsaber to Rey’s face? I only did that because someone mentioned her lips reading as “all the Jedi,” so I cut the video to avoid that. I agree with you, myself - I like the pacing better without cutting the video, but that’s not a huge issue either way. (I was going to send Hal the audio, and let him decide whether to cut the video around it or not.) Just in terms of the line audio though, do you have any strong opinions of anything that stands out?

DominicCobb said:

Who was it that did the little purple/blue flash in the saber? Is that available to grab?

I want to say it was Burbin…? I could be totally off.

CaptainFaraday said:

sherlockpotter said:

sherlockpotter said:

Hal 9000 said:

Also, sherlockpotter, did you stitch the very end of the “I am all the Sith” shot onto the end of “no match for the power in me”? If so, bravo, because I can’t tell unless I’m reverse engineering it. lol

All credit where it’s due: sade1212 is the one who did the incredible work restructuring Palp’s dialogue; I just stapled my line onto the end.

On that note, how do people think this version sounds? Like Hal said before, this line especially has to be pretty much perfect: https://streamable.com/mdw8w1

Oh, and I also nudged the timing of, and added a wee little exhale after, Rey’s “I…” to fill in the gap a bit (from removing “And-”), but that can go if people don’t like it.

In the interest of making the changes to the finale as perfect as possible, I just want to double check if anyone has any issues with the demo I shared here? If no one mentions anything, I’ll assume it’s good enough and I’ll send the audio to Hal.

Just want to make sure people had the chance to see this and weigh in with any potential criticisms, given how quickly this thread moves!

Is there any other source of “am” that we could use in there? I’ve been trying to figure out what the issue I have with it is, and I’ve finally realised it’s that I hear it as “I… I’m a Jedi,” which feels weird. Unless I’m the only one who hears that, I think it’s worth trying to replace that syllable so it’s clear that it’s “I… am a Jedi.”

sade and I were both struggling to come up with a good source of “am” that sounded natural in the sequence. The cleanest solution I found was to trim some of the “th” sound off of “the Jedi.” Sade, did you come up with anything different?

I think, between sade’s version and mine, we each timed Rey’s “I” a little differently, and I added an extra pant to try and smooth over the gap a bit more. And then for “am a Jedi,” I think sade faded a little more out of the “a,” whereas I tried to leave a little more in.

It really just comes down to which version - and the microscopic variations therein - people think sounds better, which is why I wanted to get one more vote on it. sade definitely did a fantastic job with it; I think it’s honestly really nice that we came up with different options from which to choose!

sherlockpotter said:

Hal 9000 said:

Also, sherlockpotter, did you stitch the very end of the “I am all the Sith” shot onto the end of “no match for the power in me”? If so, bravo, because I can’t tell unless I’m reverse engineering it. lol

All credit where it’s due: sade1212 is the one who did the incredible work restructuring Palp’s dialogue; I just stapled my line onto the end.

On that note, how do people think this version sounds? Like Hal said before, this line especially has to be pretty much perfect: https://streamable.com/mdw8w1

Oh, and I also nudged the timing of, and added a wee little exhale after, Rey’s “I…” to fill in the gap a bit (from removing “And-”), but that can go if people don’t like it.

In the interest of making the changes to the finale as perfect as possible, I just want to double check if anyone has any issues with the demo I shared here? If no one mentions anything, I’ll assume it’s good enough and I’ll send the audio to Hal.

Just want to make sure people had the chance to see this and weigh in with any potential criticisms, given how quickly this thread moves!

Hey hey! Congrats, Hal! You are never allowed to post again.

BrotherOfSasquatch, I appreciate the feedback! I wasn’t sure about Kylo’s response, so it’s good to have a second opinion on that. And I considered that “over-the-top” angle too, believe me. But I figured, all Jedi have been known to sense happenings from across the Galaxy - Luke contacted Leia more than once, Ahsoka heard Anakin’s fall, Yoda sensed Order 66 - so it felt like a slight tweak of something that’s long been established. Besides, it feels less OP than freezing blaster fire midair. (Why didn’t he ever use that power again?)

But the consensus seems to be to stick with the original Palp convo. So I guess we don’t have to worry!

Yeah, Burbin, I suppose I see the use in including it earlier rather than later. But I don’t think any of that is strictly “necessary,” you know? Like, Palpatine not trusting Kylo is made apparent at the end (and, I think, works better if it’s not spoiled beforehand), and Rey not being a Jedi is spelled out elsewhere.

I suppose…the Hux/Pryde scene isn’t entirely garbage on its own, honestly. If it could include just the first half, when they’re talking about how much the Knights of Ren suck, you could probably cut it before you get to the Chewie reveal. You’d just need a line for Hux to replace “we’ve captured a prisoner.” Something like “Kylo Ren can’t be trusted.” (Music sting) And then wipe to the next scene. (Helps to set up the Hux Spy angle too.) Anyone know of any good clips that might be used there?

I knew this would cause a bit of a hurdle and might require too much extra work - it’s just an idea I’ve been workshopping, which…seems like it comes across effectively? That’s good. I appreciate the feedback!

We can always just do what RL suggested, and pad out the original scene with a shot of BB-8 or something. Has anyone made any progress on the dagger recording or dagger vision?

Oh yeah, no, keep that Chewie scene out for sure. I thought maybe we could do the tractor shot, and then a wide shot of the Destroyer, and then wipe back to the trio? Not sure how that would play out in practice.

RogueLeader said:

sherlock, could you see about moving Finn’s line about Endor to the part where Finn and Rey are working on the Falcon? If anything, maybe we could hear the beginning of Finn’s like while the camera is still in the cockpit with Poe and Chewie, like we’re doing a J-cut. The whole line doesn’t have to be used. Just whatever fits and still makes sense.

Hey, remember THIS??? From two months ago??

This is a somewhat radical idea I had, and so I feel the need to walk through my thought process (because god forbid I suggest an idea without bloviating about it for 45 minutes). If it won’t work in Ascendant, I won’t be upset. Mainly, I just want to know – does this even work, in practice? I know what I want the scene to convey; does that come across to everyone else?

What I’m thinking is: move the Kylo/Palpy Force call out of it’s current, V1 spot. (We could add in a shot from the Vehicle Flythroughs of the Star Destroyer, either before or after the Falcon is tractored into the ship, in order to pad that out.) Instead, structure the film like this: Rey escapes from Kylo -> Pryde shoots Hux -> (Another new establishing shot potentially, from the Disney+ footage) -> Reinsert the scene of Kylo -> Wipe to Hyperspace, Rey complains that, like, no one gets her, man.

Then, for that Kylo scene, get rid of the entire ADR conversation with Palps. It’s all useless, repetitive dialogue that really doesn’t progress the story at all, so who cares about that. Then, do some fancy cuts and audio mixing, and have Kylo instead be “hunting” for Rey through the Force.

• It explains how Kylo knew they were going to Endor, which was never explained in the theatrical cut. Just like Jannah, he must have heard Babu Frik’s public broadcast.
• It allows us to have Rey telling the group about Endor in kind of a fun, interesting way; and gives us more time in which to do so.
• It builds on the idea that “[Kylo] and [his] Knights are going hunting for the scavenger,” which…Kylo never really does? He Skypes her a few times, and just somehow manages to find objects relevant to her location each time through pure happenstance (Pig necklace, Vader mask…). For his entire mission to find Rey, he’s always two steps behind her, which makes him completely nonthreatening and unintimidating as a villain; he just relies on luck the entire time. This way, we can explain how he keeps finding her, which retroactively makes him intimidating again. And we can use this scene to justify cutting that stupid f**king necklace tracking scene, because I still think that that’s dumb as all hell. (And that necklace scene hurts the pacing of the film anyway.)

And then I thought…if Kylo is searching all across the Force, this scene actually becomes a goldmine of possibilities; which you can read about below, because this comment is already way too long:

https://streamable.com/hh3e3r

In this example, I’ve basically made it into a three-part sequence. First, I added some Rose and Leia dialogue. I like the idea that Kylo is instinctively drawn to his mother before anyone else; I think that adds more to his internal conflict. I also like including both Rose and Leia more, so that both characters feel like they have a slightly larger presence in the film. Both new clips have been restructured from existing lines, so it’s not 1:1 with other lines the viewer will have heard. With the Leia line I used, it also helps to quickly foreshadow the ending Civilian Fleet thing – rather than having Lando rally all of their forces from across the galaxy off-screen in 15 minutes, Leia will have already sent out the call for help, and then Lando just goes to collect them, basically. (This also allows Leia to do more in the film than, er, “nothing,” which…I dunno, I like that.) Kylo also reacts to hearing his mother with a new line.

After Rose and Leia, I added some combat sounds from various sources, a couple of “Skywalker!” lines provided to me by Hal, and some all-new dialogue that I regrettably recorded myself. The idea here is that as Kylo “scans” for Rey, he picks up on some anti-First Order rebellions happening somewhere. Again, just trying to keep that “galaxy rising up” through line running across the film – first with the opening crawl, then with the new puppet show, then with the Kijimi rebellion that I still want to incorporate, then this, and then finally it all comes to a head with the Civilian Fleet at the end. All across the film, we’re just building more and more – and the stakes are getting higher and higher – before the finale. You know, almost like a “movie”! I edited the audio here to hopefully sound like Kylo is searching through multiple uprisings.

Part 3 is the Finn and Rey conversation, built out of four different dialogue lines, with some gentle re-pitching and noise cancellation filters. Throughout the new sequence, pretty much all audio has different reverb and echo effects applied, with additional layers of sound happening underneath. Music is taken from the FYC album. Hopefully it all comes together!

And overall, by stretching out this scene, it’s another chance for us to slow the pacing a little, while simultaneously building up Kylo as a character, exploring the state of the galaxy, foreshadowing the finale, and progressing Rey’s plot. Blip bloppity bloop.

So yeah, those are my thoughts/hopes for this new sequence. I’d really like it if it could work, so I’m open to suggestions. Visually, does it work? How’s the audio mix? The tempo? There are probably a lot of ways to mix the audio to make the “Force tracking” idea come through. I’m open to considering different audio effects/mixes/volume levels if people have suggestions.

I definitely wouldn’t want to lose the original forest shot, as that one seems to segue the best into the on-the-ground location. I’m not sure how it would work with cutting out the first lava shot; I guess I’d like to see how it feels in motion, just to gauge the pacing.

The shot looks beautiful though, Nev!

RogueLeader said:

I know Hal already mentioned this, but I think it would be good to put some of our brains together and see if we can hammer out the whispering dagger stuff, and decide if we can pull it off or not. I know Sherlock has already made a lot of examples for how many of those scenes can be altered.

Just a refresher, the main changes that needed to be figured out were:

1. Cutting 3PO’s line about knowing exactly where the Wayfinder is. He can just know it was the clue Luke was looking for.
2. Dubbing red-eyed 3PO with a new dagger translation than makes it clear that Rey must tap into the dark side to be “guided” to the Wayfinder. (I think clarity is the key word here. Just a reminder, he can’t mention Endor because the dagger should theoretically find the Wayfinder no matter where it is.) I know Faraday may provide the voice dub for this.
3. I think the interaction on the Destroyer when Poe asks Rey why they need the dagger should be trimmed, since they would clearly still need it based off the new translation.
4. When Rey finds the dagger in Kylo’s quarters, she immediately picks it up, and we get a brief glimpse of the Death Star ruins. (I think priority should making this feel like it could’ve been in the theatrical film. I would suggest editing it like Rey/Kylo’s vision at the beginning of the film, but with literally just one or two shots of the Death Star. Really quick.)
5. When Rey and Finn are back on the Falcon, have Finn say all or part of his line, “The Endor system? Where the last war ended?” Implying that Rey told them what the Wayfinder showed her. (If it has trouble fitting, perhaps we could regrade a shot of BB-8 on the Falcon to imply he is nearby, listening in. This same technique was actually used during Finn and Rey’s conversation on Ochi’s ship.)
6. On Kef-Bir, cough, I mean Endor, cut Jannah saying they received a message from Babu Frik.

Here are my mockups for changes one and six. These are mainly just proof-of-concepts, so if anyone has ideas that they think would work better, feel free! I also have been working on a somewhat radical idea regarding number five, which has required a bit more work than I was anticipating; but I should have something to present tonight or tomorrow.

For some reason, I thought a few people had already started working on potential recordings for number two. Was there any new information on that front? And for three, since that scene is pretty much a oner and any cuts would probably be obvious, could we maybe redub Poe to say something like “How will you find it?” Or maybe “Where?” “[I have] a feeling…”

For four, I think it should be more than just a quick flash; I agree that it should resemble the visions in other points of the film. I’m thinking maybe a shot of the exterior (maybe even taken from ROTJ), the Throne Room (could crop a shot from the 4K source, to remove Rey), the Wayfinder itself in the storage closet, and then maybe a flash of Palpatine at the end, taken from later in the film, just to reiterate that he’s the looming threat here. I think the trickiest part will be matching the audio design of the other visions - maybe Dom could lend his expertise, based on his work on the Mask Vision?

Jar Jar Bricks…worried that the audience wouldn’t understand why Rey was given a vision the second time she picked it up on the Destroyer, but not the first time she did in the Pasaana caves. Because, visually, the movie doesn’t show Rey doing anything different between the two moments she is holding the dagger.

I was thinking perhaps Rey’s eyes could turn yellow at this point, to show her tapping into the Dark Side?

If we decide not to go through with these changes and leave it as V1 basically has it, perhaps we could rejig axlanian’s recent suggestion of adding more Sith voices to the climax, but instead add Sith voices to the whispers Rey follows, but they could actual whisper little things that the audience can understand. Instead of the whispers only being vague jibberish, we could hear some whispers say, “Closer” “This way”, etc… Not only that, but we could throw in some whispers that contribute to that temptation idea. It could all be subtle stuff, but enough to understand that they’re not only leading her to the Wayfinder, but they’re also trying to tell her how she needs power of the dark side.

I’d be down for this. It kind of sounds like the Sith Whispers already, but just a little more explicit. The added whispers could also be really cool when Rey is wandering around Exegol, as they guide her to Palpatine…

With all that being said, maybe it is not worth the amount of work that is required for this change. We might be able to iron out some dumb plot choices, but maybe that effort could be put toward more substantial changes. For example, I would like to see 3PO not get his memory back, so at least some sacrifices in this film have consequences. Then again, maybe it’s time to start closing the door on new ideas.

I’m pretty sure Hal said he’s fine with 3PO getting his memories back. But at this point, the only substantial things that would really be left to do for the Dagger are the new translation recording, and the vision sequence itself.

RogueLeader said:

Regarding the Captain Hux line, the soundtrack already dips pretty suddenly on its own, but it is more noticeable here because I had to cut out “General” from every channel, and I pushed “Hux” back a little because I felt like the lines is more convincing when there is a pause. Because of that, the soundtracks stops sooner than it did before. I might try and play around with it some more. It’s funny how some dialogue is a breeze to remove, and then we run into this mess when we’re just trying to change one word! But we can PM about it until we have something else to show or are stuck.

Would it be possible to loop some audio from the pause after he says “General Hux”? And then just insert “Captain” into the new gap. That would allow the timing of the line delivery to play out pretty much how it did before, I think.

Looking at the sequence again, RL and Nev, would it be possible to have the TIEs flying the other way across the screen - left to right? Most of the stuff on the surface (throughout this whole opening, honestly) with Kylo is done the same way, so I think it would be better if we could maintain a consistent screen direction.

Not that there aren’t already a million instances of screen direction flipping around mid-sequence throughout the film, but still…

RogueLeader said:

CaptainFaraday said:

Puppets: Is the “clunk” sound effect of the puppets going to be added back in? I liked it. Either way, this footage blows my mind every time I see it.

If the puppeteers should also make sound effects is definitely the next question for this thing. Perhaps the clunk could be left in when the AT-AT gets hit? Obviously it isn’t a metal puppet, but if we threw in some other sounds, it might make it more obvious that they’re being made for dramatic effect from beneath the stage or whatever.

Luke could sing the Force Theme as he throws the fireball back! Or is that getting too meta? Lol.

It’s all looking really outstanding, RogueLeader. The only things I might still suggest - in the puppet show, could ThisIsCreation maybe toss the phrase “First Order” into the narration? Just to make it exceptionally clear that it’s them facing-off against Skywalker. (Just for the casual fans, ya know?)

And “Captain Hux” sounds really good so far! I can still hear a very slight lurch between “Captain” and “Hux”; but then, I’m looking for it, so I’d imagine most viewers wouldn’t catch it. Also, the other officers look over at him pretty much right as Kylo says “Captain.” (How do they know who Kylo is talking to before he calls out the name?) I wonder if it might flow a little better if Kylo starts his line just a split-second earlier, so that the others look over at him after Kylo calls him “Captain.” (“Oooh, buddy got demoted?? Haha, what a little squirt.”) And then I would suggest just cutting “Hux” entirely. “I sense unease about my appearance…Captain.” Everyone looks at Hux, Hux starts talking…I think the scene would still be accessible to the audience.

EDIT: I kind of agree with Cap about the new Mustafar shot…it doesn’t feel as dynamic as the surrounding footage. Maybe the shot could be sped up, so that it’s more of a flyover of the castle? Or would that throw off the TIE tracking too much? I need to rewatch Biomes I think…

Hal 9000 said:

In the interest of shuffling this thing a little closer to completion, let me regather some thoughts and ideas that are unresolved.

• Has the “you probably don’t recognize me because of the red eyes” 3PO scene redub been pursued past hashing out potential lines? That little cluster of related changes seems to hinge on whether that 30 seconds gets nailed or not. (Fortunately, those small handful of changes stand or fall together and the rest of the R&D has basically been done by this point so we have both options.)

• Who can remove the milky eyes from that one super short shot of Rey on the Sith throne from the vision? We also talked about adding classic Sith eyes when she appears on the DSII, although I don’t think it’s necessary and would be happy with just axing the milky eyes. (“Oh, no, she’s going to turn 140 like her grandpa or something!”)

• Is ‘Captain’ Hux being worked on? Is it just the one line from Kylo that would need to be changed?

• Sherlockpotter, is the “I am a Jedi” line about where you feel totally happy with it? Please send it to me once it is, preferably as a single-channel so I can mix it in.

• Is the “that’s not even a language” scene finished, or still in progress? Axlanian, please sent me what you end up being happy with and I’ll nail it down.

• Anyone up for carving out a replacement for the Vader Castle shot on Mustafar using the ‘Biomes’ short? While the existing one is still very good in my book, I think about anything anyone can do with that material will be at least as good. Could be as simple as cloning one of the TIE fighters to make it three and use that portion of the shot.

Just to add to this, we were also considering adding the background civil war audio and/or propaganda posters on Kijimi - maybe adding some newly recorded lines for that? - and also the Death Star Lightning shot. For the former, branching off of an earlier suggestion, it might be good to trim Poe’s lines “Everyone’s so afraid. They’ve given up,” so that it doesn’t conflict with the new opening crawl. So instead, the conversation would go:

POE: “I can’t walk out on this war, not until it’s over. Maybe it is. We sent out a call for help on Crait. Nobody came.”

KERI RUSSELL: “No, I don’t believe you believe that. Hey…They win by making you think you’re alone.”

Maybe cut “I don’t believe you believe that” too? I think it still works against “maybe it is”; but I can hear the cries now: “He doesn’t believe that ‘nobody came’ on Crait? He was there! He knows they didn’t!”

For the latter, Dat_SW_Guy was working on it (and may have finished it?), we just don’t have a finished effect rendered yet.

Hal 9000 said:

Also, sherlockpotter, did you stitch the very end of the “I am all the Sith” shot onto the end of “no match for the power in me”? If so, bravo, because I can’t tell unless I’m reverse engineering it. lol

All credit where it’s due: sade1212 is the one who did the incredible work restructuring Palp’s dialogue; I just stapled my line onto the end.

On that note, how do people think this version sounds? Like Hal said before, this line especially has to be pretty much perfect: https://streamable.com/mdw8w1

Oh, and I also nudged the timing of, and added a wee little exhale after, Rey’s “I…” to fill in the gap a bit (from removing “And-”), but that can go if people don’t like it.

Hal, did you already add your Wilhelm Scream into the film somewhere? Because otherwise…

For the puppet show, would adding in some other proper names help clarify things too? “Skywalker,” “Crait,” “First Order”…

And for a Ben final line…I was thinking that too, a while back. I think there’s a danger of adding something that’s really lame and cheesy though. Like, “No one’s ever really gone,” after the Jedi have already appeared to her…feels kinda lame to me. (You’re too late to the party, Ben! Everyone else has already gone home, BEN!)

If we added something else, I would say to keep it simple. “I’m sorry” or “Rey, no…” as he’s going over to her body. Or just a quiet “Thank you” before he dies. Oh! Or what if he calls out to her right before she sees him and gives him the lightsaber? (“Rey…”) Not super deep, perhaps; but conceptually, I think it would flow well.

Or scream “NOOOOOOOO” as he falls into the Infinity Pit.