sherlockpotter

Burbin said:

I just don’t understand why the dialogue needs to be gutted though, in my opinion it’s much better the way it is originally. I don’t think it works to splice the Crait line before “maybe it is”, it breaks the flow of the conversation, and I don’t get why you’d remove “Everyone’s so afraid. They’ve given up”. This doesn’t contradict Poe’s development from TLJ, and is integral to his arc: Poe still believes the Resistance is the spark, but he laments so many people haven’t joined the Resistance because they’re afraid/given up. When Zorii says “there’s more of us” she’s telling him there are more good people in the galaxy, good people who’d be willing to fight. This is something he still believes (which is why she tells him “I don’t believe you believe that”), he just has moments of doubt, such as this, the scene on Leia’s death bed, and the ‘lowest point’ of the battle on Exegol.

It’s not a conflict with his character arc - it’s a conflict with the mechanics of the story.

The main reason I went about altering the dialogue was because it contradicts the new through line that was added in Ascendant, of the galaxy rising up. Right in the new opening crawl - “Flames of rebellion burn across the galaxy”… it creates a conflict if we say that the galaxy is rebelling, and then Poe claims that “Maybe it is over. Everyone is so afraid. They’ve given up.”

So yeah, Poe’s hopelessness works in the theatrical version, where the galaxy has given up (until Lando gives everyone an off screen pep talk); but if we want to establish that the galaxy has been working on this since Crait, Poe claiming that the galaxy is “afraid” and “has given up” comes across as incongruous. The restructured dialogue effectively conveys the same ideas of Poe’s hopelessness as it did originally, just without that contradictory aspect.

Poe’s arc in this movie goes hand in hand with it’s main theme: he goes from believing the Resistance has to fight alone, to putting his faith in the people, The people who come together and (in this version) Rise in the name of Skywalker. He basically goes from only focusing on the spark, to actually letting it light the fire that brings the First Order down. Poe’s conversation with Zorii is a key moment for the story and his character arc, and is one of the few legit callbacks to TLJ. I don’t think it’s a disposable, meaningless moment… and I don’t think it should be tampered with.

The way I edited it - or at least, the way I envisioned it 😉 - it would only serve to enhance everything you’re saying about Poe and his journey. The difference is that rather than “nothing character #156, introduced two minutes earlier” Zorii telling Poe "Ehh…I’m sure there are other people somewhere! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ", it becomes an actual moment - a scene for Poe to see for himself (and for the audience to see) that the galaxy hasn’t given up on their cause. He helped inspire the galaxy by his actions on Crait, and now the galaxy is able to inspire him in return. It’s tangible, and concrete; it’s much, much more than Keri Russell saying “Cheer up there, bucko!” as her seventh line of dialogue.

We can add signs of rebellion on Kijimi without interfering with this, in fact it could heighten the fact Poe is so focused on the struggles of the Resistance he’s (partially) blind to signs of the external growing uprising.

That was my thought too, on why I thought the graffiti would still work - Poe just has his head down, so to speak, and doesn’t notice it.

Ed Slushie said:

I think it makes more sense if Exegol was the place they went after Moraband fell, because we’ve already seen Moraband and there’s less reason for the characters to need to look for it. Especially since the character who initially says “Exegol does not appear on any star chart” is R2-D2, the one character who should know exactly where Moraband is, since he’s already been there.

Hmm, yeah, that’s true. Good catch. Maybe I’ll just try and change 3PO’s definition of Exegol then. Something like “Legend describes it as a lost temple to the Sith,” instead of “Legend describes it as the hidden world of the Sith.”

Rewatching Clone Wars recently, I’d love if it were possible to refer to Exegol as “Moraband” throughout the film, just to keep “the ancient Sith home world” in line with prior canon. But I feel like the name “Exegol” is said too many times and by too many people to make redubbing feasible. Thoughts?

My original worry with some of the graffiti was that it was going to be too subtle for casual audience members to catch; but I think it would actually work perfectly if we can iron out the rest of the audio for this sequence. More observant viewers would be able to see that Kijimi was inspired by Luke by looking at the graffiti, and that then quietly foreshadows the moment with Poe later where it comes to the forefront; but the point of all of our additions is still made clear for those yuppies who won’t pick up on little clues like that. Kind of an /r/MovieDetails moment.

Chase Adams said:

Inspired by Sherlock’s clip, I decided to put some time aside to actually contribute something for the first time in ages.

Here’s my take on Kijimi in chaos and a new idea on how to set up the conversation Poe has with Zorii.

https://streamable.com/dw0x39

That works really well, Chase; and I love the audio work too! Beautiful job!

Jar Jar Bricks said:

I seem to remember footage of First Order troopers on Kijimi from the documentary that could be used so we wouldn’t be removing a transition from somewhere else. Other than that, I definitely like it.

I don’t remember that footage. Would we be able to add it in later? My one worry with this would be replacing the footage in the original spot later on; so this might be a workaround.

I really appreciate all of the kind words, everyone! Thank you! To address a few of the comments all at once:

The background/fighting audio is definitely not finished yet. I’m planning on adding more texture to it, more reverb, some explosions (good idea, Chase!), etc. And I definitely need to figure out how to make everything sound more distant. krausfadr and Nev, I’ll try out those suggestions, thanks! I may try to play with the EQ a bit too; it’s my first time doing an effect like this, so I’m all ears for other tips!

I can try to get “You don’t believe that” to work. Like I said above though, it’s been a surprisingly difficult edit to make, so we’ll see what happens.

Cap, if you (or others) are willing to record some distant shouts for us, I’m sure that would be useful! We should talk to axlanian too about what exactly those would be - that could be really helpful for some of the audio mixing he was working on as well.

Finally, regarding the use of “For Skywalker” before the ending… Personally, I like the idea that this is the rallying cry behind which the galaxy has united (Star Wars’ version of “Remember the Alamo”); so in that respect, I like peppering it in every once and a while. It feels like a natural way of building the world, as well as foreshadowing/building to the ending of the story. That said, if people would prefer to make the line kind of a surprise for the finale, that’s valid too. We’d probably need a new line to replace it here though.

Less important, but it really is weird how depressed and prone to giving up Poe is in this movie, considering his story in TLJ was about being too bold and reckless. I don’t know if it’s possible/worth it to change it in any reasonable capacity, but still…weird. Like I said, it’s not a character arc - it’s a character cosine.

Burbin said:

Hate to be the sourpuss over so many of these proposed changes, I just think the original scene/dialogue is fine as is.

Changing Zorii’s line to “I don’t believe that (the war is over)” suggests she has a stake/opinion on the ongoing war. Along with the rest of the dialogue changes it makes it seem like she’s basically admiting to Poe that she’s part of the Kijimi rebellion, right after saying she’s planning to abandon it all and flee, alining with Poe’s sentiments that everyone’s giving up. It’s just an odd contrast. I feel the Kijimi rebellion stuff should be kept as subtle background since we’re so limited on what can actually be shown, bringing it to the forefront just exposes the limitations of being a fanedit.

That’s fair, I get where you’re coming from. To me, “I don’t believe you believe that” just sounds very clunky and unnatural, which is why I wanted to change it. Ideally, she’d say “You don’t believe that,” but as MR pointed out the other day, that’s a surprisingly tricky splice to make.

My intention was to convey that Zorii is telling Poe, “I don’t believe that people are giving up. Listen, you idiot; you can hear them fighting for your cause.” Personally, I don’t take that to mean she’s also fighting for the Republic. Just that other people are. In this new version we’re working on, she’d be surrounded by Republic supporters, whether or not she herself is one. And also, whether “she doesn’t believe that,” or “she doesn’t believe that he believes that,” she still tells him in the next line that “You’re not alone,” so she’s already telegraphing sympathy for his cause…It’s just a tricky semantics situation all around.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Burbin said:

Hate to be the sourpuss over so many of these proposed changes, I just think the original scene/dialogue is fine as is.

Changing Zorii’s line to “I don’t believe that (the war is over)” suggests she has a stake/opinion on the ongoing war. Along with the rest of the dialogue changes it makes it seem like she’s basically admiting to Poe that she’s part of the Kijimi rebellion, right after saying she’s planning to abandon it all and flee, alining with Poe’s sentiments that everyone’s giving up. It’s just an odd contrast. I feel the Kijimi rebellion stuff should be kept as subtle background since we’re so limited on what can actually be shown, bringing it to the forefront just exposes the limitations of being a fanedit.

Mostly agree with this. Beforehand she goes on about how she “can’t stand the cries anymore” and wants to go on her own adventures, so those ideas are partially conflicting. That’s why it’s supposed to be a surprise when she shows up on Exegol later on.

Oh god…Christ, I forgot about this line. Screw this movie, haha. That’s a good catch, Jar Jar; thank you. That’s another line that doesn’t quite jive with the “Kijimi in rebellion” angle, so we’ll have to fix that. Could we cut that line entirely? “First Order took most of the kids a long time ago… I’ve saved up enough to get out. I’m going to the colonies.” That should effectively explain that she’s done with this planet, right? Or would we have to change it to something like “This isn’t my fight. I’ve saved up enough to get out”?

But yeah, since “the cries” are now the calls to rebellion, she comes across as an old geezer wanting the neighborhood kids to get off her yard. “You youngsters! Back in my day, when an evil regime oppressed us, we stood there and took it! Bah.”

Thank you, all! If anyone has tips for making the dialogue sound more distant, that would definitely help. I was also thinking, I’d probably want some generic, indistinguishable chatter/shouts underneath before the final words come through clearly.

As for other things to say, maybe something like, “Remember the Alamo Crait!” Or “Remember Skywalker!” Or “For the Republic!” Something like that, perhaps?

I was also thinking, if “listen” doesn’t work out, maybe just cut that and the “Hey”?

“I don’t believe that”

Pause to listen.

From the distance: “For Skywalker!”

Would that work?

I’ve been tinkering with that Poe/Zorii scene. Unfortunately, after getting my hands dirty with it, I think Cap was right about this one and I was wrong. The way Oscar delivers the Crait line, I have to agree that it feels awkward to try and segue from that to Keri Russell’s line. So here’s my rough suggestion. I may be overthinking this, and I almost definitely overengineered it. But that’s okay.

Changes:

• Swapped Poe’s line “Maybe it is” to later. Replaced it with a Poe sigh, from Disney Infinity, as a segue into the Crait discussion.
• Added “over” to “Maybe it is [over].”
• Cut some footage to remove “Everybody’s given up.”
• Changed Zorii’s line from “I don’t believe you believe that,” to “I don’t believe that,” mainly to make the line less clunky.
• Added Zorii saying “Just listen…” (Ideally, I’d want to find a better instance of Keri Russell saying this, so please let me know if you can think of any.)
• Added some “For Skywalker!”s. Looped some footage to linger on this moment a little longer, and allow it to resonate.
• It felt a little empty to me here, so I popped in some Force Theme.
• Removed Zorii saying “Remember?” I can only assume that this was a (very weak) reference to some past adventure she had with Poe; but that’s…kind of weird, right? Wouldn’t Poe have already learned not to give up, if he’s already gone through all of this? (Poe’s is less a character arc, and more a character trigonometric function.)
• Slid Zorii’s dialogue around a bit in the scene for pacing purposes (and to synchronize head bobs).
• Swapped around a couple shots of Poe, so that he nods after “There’s more of us.” (This also allows the final shot of the scene to hold a little longer, so I think it feels less rushed when we cut to the next scene.)
• Added combat sounds in the background throughout the conversation, but brought up the volume levels slightly when Zorii tells Poe to listen to it. (For a final mix, I’d want to confer with axlanian and get a sense of how he’s working on the combat audio for Kijimi.)

Also, I was thinking, perhaps it would be better to just have generic “rebellion” sounds when the gang lands on Kijimi, without any calls to Skywalker – they can hear that the Kijimi-imians are fighting the First Order, but don’t know why. Maybe Poe’s used to people fighting here? It is gang turf, after all. It’s only when Poe, at his lowest, hears the calls “For Skywalker!” that he realizes they’ve been fighting for something greater. That the Resistance has indeed brought hope. That perhaps, the war isn’t completely lost after all. (Perhaps, should he call on them later, his allies might even show up…?)

I don’t think this would affect any potential graffiti we’d add. Maybe the gang is still bummed that Chewie violently exploded, so they’re a little distracted and not paying attention to the details around them.

https://streamable.com/0lwmhz

Hal 9000 said:

I don’t really feel the need to add anything to the scene, but it’d be good to get some quotes of “Rey,” “no,” and things like that to play with.

I’d be most interested in the dyad line. Maybe request the complete sentence as well as various pieces of it.
“What Palpatine doesn’t know if we’ve become a dyad in the Force. Two that are one.”

“We’ve become a dyad in the Force.”

“We’ve become a dyad.”

“We’ve become…”

“Become a dyad…”

Etc. Just to have slight variation of the AI delivery.

Wait, is this a Ben Solo AI, or a Kylo Ren AI? The latter would definitely help redo the hanger and bedroom scenes (especially for Rey Nobody), but I thought it was only the former?

Master Lawdog said:

Honestly, I don’t even know how, “No one’s ever really gone” would fit into the movie. Besides, I kinda think it would be gimmicky for Ben to say that to Rey after Luke says it to Leia in The Last Jedi. It worked with Leia saying “Never be afraid of who you are,” only for Rey’s Dark Side self to say that herself because the line was being repeated to the same character.

I think having Ben say things like, “Rey,” “I’m sorry,” “Please forgive me” under his breath when holding her could work.

I agree - I also think “No one’s ever really gone” would feel gimmicky. And I think it would undercut the new addition of Ghost Ben at the end, if we’ve already heard from him after he disappeared.

I like the idea of him repenting, honestly. Accepting blame. Maybe something like “This is my fault” as he’s holding her? Or maybe “Don’t die,” or “Don’t go”?

I also was considering having him call out to her “Rey…” before she “sees” him on Exegol. Or maybe he could say something when the Knights of Ren approach him? I dunno. We went from so few possibilities to potentially unlimited!

God, maybe he could even say a soft “No, Chewie…” when he thinks Rey blows him up in the desert. Remind him of his childhood, and give him a few more layers in the process. I’m spit-balling here!

Oh, and MR, I also think that shot looks really good! Did you have that misty effect the last time you shared that shot? It works brilliantly, imo.

CaptainFaraday said:

sherlockpotter said:

I was rewatching some scenes from V1 - on the topic of trimming some of Poe’s dialogue with Zorii, I was thinking it might be a really nice, subtle change if the conversation went like this:

POE: I can’t walk out on this war. Not till it’s over… Maybe it is. We sent out a call for help at the Battle of Crait. Nobody came. Everyone’s so afraid. They’ve given up.

ZORII: I don’t believe you believe that. Hey. Listen. [Loop some footage, and bring up the volume level on the background noise, where we can hear some people in the distance calling out “For Skywalker!” with some blaster fire.] They win by making you think you’re alone. Remember? There’s more of us.

I kind of think it would be better to cut “Remember” too, just because it seems like a really awkward callback to some past adventure that we never learn about. (And I’d almost want to scrap the whole “making you think you’re alone” bit too, but we need it to set up Poe’s speech at the briefing later.)

It feels like a gentle way of bringing that “For Skywalker” motif to the forefront for a moment, while also working perfectly with what Poe and Zorii are discussing. We’d just need some dialogue of Keri Russell saying “listen…” and then apply the ol’ “mask filters” to that. Anyone remember a movie or show where she says that?

To be clear, this would go alongside RL’s “Kijimi in rebellion” concept. That audio (that axlanian was looking into) would be what Zorii and Poe would be hearing.

I like the concept, but the conversational logic is a bit wonky if her response to “nobody came to the Battle of Crait” is “you don’t believe that.” Could it be possible to reverse the order of Poe’s lines by cutting to a reverse shot of Zorii to hide the edit? That way, you get “maybe the war is over” followed by “I don’t believe you believe that,” which makes more sense, and I think works nicely if that’s the pause punctuated by the “for Skywalker!” shouts in the distance.

To be fair, I think the whole conversation is really awkward and poorly written. Like the rest of the movie.

How would you structure the dialogue then, though? Zorii says “Come with me,” Poe says, “Nobody came to the Battle of Crait. I can’t give up on this war until it’s over. Maybe it is.” I think that makes less sense as a response, honestly.

The way I see it, it’s not two independent clauses, so Zorii wouldn’t literally be saying “You don’t believe that [no one came to Crait].” I don’t think it’s too awkward to structure it as, “POE: I can’t walk out on this war. Not till it’s over… Maybe it is. [After all,] we sent out a call for help at the Battle of Crait. Nobody came.” The Crait bit is an explanation for his belief that “maybe the war is over”; it’s not a separate, tangential belief unto itself.

“I believe the war is over because everyone abandoned us on Crait.” “No, you don’t believe that.” I think it’s…serviceable. I think this whole conversation is “serviceable.”

At the very least, I think it flows better structurally than Merry’s “Dark science, cloning, secrets only the Sith knew…?” lol

I was rewatching some scenes from V1 - on the topic of trimming some of Poe’s dialogue with Zorii, I was thinking it might be a really nice, subtle change if the conversation went like this:

POE: I can’t walk out on this war. Not till it’s over… Maybe it is. We sent out a call for help at the Battle of Crait. Nobody came. Everyone’s so afraid. They’ve given up.

ZORII: I don’t believe you believe that. Hey. Listen. [Loop some footage, and bring up the volume level on the background noise, where we can hear some people in the distance calling out “For Skywalker!” with some blaster fire.] They win by making you think you’re alone. Remember? There’s more of us.

I kind of think it would be better to cut “Remember” too, just because it seems like a really awkward callback to some past adventure that we never learn about. (And I’d almost want to scrap the whole “making you think you’re alone” bit too, but we need it to set up Poe’s speech at the briefing later.)

It feels like a gentle way of bringing that “For Skywalker” motif to the forefront for a moment, while also working perfectly with what Poe and Zorii are discussing. We’d just need some dialogue of Keri Russell saying “listen…” and then apply the ol’ “mask filters” to that. Anyone remember a movie or show where she says that?

To be clear, this would go alongside RL’s “Kijimi in rebellion” concept. That audio (that axlanian was looking into) would be what Zorii and Poe would be hearing.

Master Lawdog said:

I think I found someone who can help us out with Luke’s new line, “Leia told me that she had sensed the birth of her son at the end of her Jedi path.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaWPpVxiZD8

Daaaaang. New Ben lines, Luke lines, Leia lines…I have so many I wanted to try adding. This honestly would be a game changer.

I mean, I’ve been going through looking for good Poe substitutions regarding the dagger on the ship. To think you could just type out a script and be done with it.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Have to agree with Sherlock for once.

axlanian, I’ll upload those sound effects when I get home tonight.

Except, isn’t the whole point of Rogue One that the people who got the plans aren’t really “special”? They’re not Jedi, or famous figures. They go on a secret mission, and they all die at the end, without anyone learning who they are. They’re just a bunch of regular folks who took a stand and achieved something incredible.

Rogue One is all about how the non-famous, forgotten people in history can still make a difference. The whole point of the movie is lost if Jyn Erso & Co. become legendary figures themselves, imo.

axlanian said:

My intense (but might not work out) idea for this scene was too add a whole new soundscape. I really want to have a scene that shows civil unrest under FO rule, so it’s not quite as out-of-nowhere when the wind Galaxy rises up at the end of the movie.

I wad thinking of making it sound like a riot is going on farther back in the city, with these troopers split between trying to keep everyone else detained in their homes, and marching towards an area they’re being deployed to. Any graffiti would be great to show that Kijimi is a protest hotspot, but could anyone here add flashes of laser fire to the establishing shot as the Trio’s ship flies in?

There are already a good amount of noises in the scene, I’d mainly add voices and distant blaster fire. It should sound like they landed far away from the action.

Honestly I really don’t know if this will work, but I’d like to give it a shot first, and then if it’s a non-starter we can try simply replacing trooper dialogue instead. Does this sound like a good idea to anyone?

This was pretty much exactly how I pictured the scene in my mind too! I was actually using my “Force Hunting” mockup as a way of testing building up a battle soundscape. If you’d like, I could send over some of the sound effects I gathered for it - it’s a lot of audio from the different Battlefront games, mainly.

Hal 9000 said:

Some great ideas! I’d be cautious of aping movie posters, as I can imagine gently rolling my eyes if I’d seen it in the theatrical.

Makes me think of something. One thing that did cause me to gently roll my eyes but not quite make a quip to my brother in the theater was the trooper in the distance on Kijimi saying something like “the door is locked, move onto the next one.”

I mean… mumble, grumble.

Hmm… Axlanian, any thoughts about augmenting that trooper line too? How about a sly allusion to the ‘77 mono mix with,”It’s secure, move onto the next one.” Or “It’s secure, next residence.”

Now that’s gotta be an allusion to the original film, right?

But you’re right, Hal. Probably best to cut and/or replace a lot of that background chatter, just to get the right tone across. Here’s what it is in the theatrical (and most of it is off-screen anyway):

• Open up. You’re wanted for questioning. (This line doesn’t really fit the new context.)
• Check this side of the street. (That seems fine.)
• Alright, we’ll check it out. (Fine.)
• Door is locked. Move on to the next one. (Stupid)
• Give me regular reports, please. (Should be replaced)
• You, up against the wall. Show me your identification. Where’s your identification? (Ehhhhhh…)

Maybe we could make or find recordings to the effect of:

• They’re gathering in the north quarter. Send reinforcements!
• Open up! Come out with your hands up!
• They’ve found a weapons cache, stay alert.
• Send your squadron to Sector 248.

But then again, I don’t think this would all have to be Stormtrooper dialogue anymore. Probably more like a mix of stormtrooper orders, rebel rallying cries, and battle sounds.

I disagree that changing the Death Star labels was a valuable special edition change. To me, these characters are already “humans,” speaking “English.” (I don’t care what either is called in lore; that doesn’t matter.) If seeing specific written letters is what shatters your immersion after that…well, that’s how you see it, I guess. And like Knight of Kalee pointed out, Latin characters are canon anyway, so who cares?

But anyway, I genuinely think these art pieces look fantastic - well done, all of you! I just worry that they’ll go by too quickly, or be too obscured in the background, to be able to easily see what they represent. We know what their significance is - will a theoretical first time viewer?

I guess we’ll just have to see how it plays when it’s all put together!

I’m interested in seeing how it would look without English; I’m just saying - I think we need to consider what’s best for a first-time viewer, rather than what we might “personally,” aesthetically, prefer. The most important thing is that the message comes through to the audience, and I can’t imagine many folks out there know how to read Aurebesh.

And Jar Jar, English was in the very first Star Wars movie, as I pointed out in my clip above. So it’s definitely a canon language. (And again, I think clarity is the most important aspect here; there’s no point of adding all of this if it’s unintelligible to the audience. That would look like a fan edit.)

axlanian said:

The graffiti messages should be in Aurebesh, right?

Maybe a little Aurebesh for the aesthetic, but I think most of the text should be in English. We can’t really focus on the artwork at all (…can we?), so I think we need to go with whatever’s most apparent and accessible to a casual viewer. If people see a bunch of hieroglyphs, it won’t convey anything; if people see messages they can actually read, the intent will be clear.

Obviously, the pictures and symbolism will help, but are people going to notice that and understand the significance of it with a quick glance in the background? I don’t think they would. “SKYWALKER LIVES!” That would catch their eye, and make everything that much more apparent.

Besides, Star Wars had a bunch of English before the Special Editions came along, so we’re not breaking lore or anything…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvbrVFP_f0w&t=3m28s

The graffiti I think would be when they’re talking to Zorii and/or sneaking off to Babu’s, on the walls behind them.

That’s a cool idea, DarthMeme! We could also have things like anti-First Order propaganda (severed stormtrooper heads, or the FO logo with an “X” through it?), or maybe messages like “Skywalker lives!” or something.

I dunno, I’m just spitballing.

Reposting RogueLeader’s original comment from way back when, for context’s sake. Some of this has already been implemented in V1 (e.g. removing mention of 3PO’s memory backups), and some of it isn’t wholly relevant to this current discussion, so I’ve bolded the parts that are:

RogueLeader said:

Here are some of the ideas I had written down.

Some thoughts on the Kijimi sequence: Kijimi in Revolt, 3PO’s Irreversible Sacrifice, and Poe’s Past.

• Add details to Kijimi to establish that it is revolting.
• Add graffiti to one of the walls of the Kijimi streets. Rebel symbol, crossed-out stormtrooper helmet, or Luke posing like the original Star Wars poster, with lightsaber overhead.
• While they’re sneaking around, add civilian protest shouts in the distance, maybe something like, “For Skywalker!” Maybe then we could hear blaster shots or an explosion.
• When Zori says, “I’m still digging myself out of the whole you put me in when you left to join the Resistance”, cut “-to join the Resistance”, or “-when you left to join the Resistance”. This gives us more ambiguity so people can interpret the situation in different ways. 1) The canon explanation, where Poe left to join the New Republic, which he was a part of before he joined the Resistance. 2) Maybe Poe only worked as a spice runner undercover as a Republic operative, and messed up their operations during his mission.
• Or, have Zori say, “I’m still digging myself out of the whole you put me in when I left the Resistance”, which would help explain why Zori knows the “more of us” phrase that Lando uses later, implying it is some kind of Rebel phrase, and why she flies a Y-Wing at the battle of Exegol. It would also nicely parallel Finn bringing in ex-stormtroopers into the fight. Doesn’t explain why Poe used to be a spice runner, but those references could potentially be cut.
• When Rey whips out her lightsaber, add offscreen dialogue of Zori’s awestruck crew saying, “Jedi!”, or “The Jedi!” Maybe Zori and her crew just thought she was a “scavenger” at first. But when they realize she’s a Jedi, Zori becomes more willing to work with them. It gives more of a reason as to why she thinks Rey is “okay”, and why she goes from pointing a gun at Poe’s head, to helping him, in 30 seconds flat.
• If C3PO’s memory is permanently deleted, cut Finn asking if R2 backs up 3PO’s memory, and 3PO’s response, but replace 3PO’s line, “Artoo’s storage unit is notoriously unreliable” with a different line so we can keep the shot of Rey contemplating. Maybe we can push C3PO’s line, “There must be some other way” to that shot, and completely cut the shot where Finn asks about R2 backing up his memory.
• Cut 3PO saying, “I just had an idea of something else-“ before Babu turns him off. It kind of takes away a little bit from 3PO making this sacrifice. So maybe 3PO could say something like, “Tell R2 I-“ or “I have a bad feeling about-“
• Cut Poe’s line’s about no one coming at the Battle of Crait, and everyone giving up. Maybe he could just say, “I can’t turn my back on this war. Not till it’s over. Maybe it is. Everyone’s so afraid(?). They’ve given up(?).” This might take some work to get the shots and music to still flow appropriately. I’m thinking cut everything after “Maybe it is” and put that line over the shot of Zori say, “No, I don’t believe you believe that”, but either cut “No” or change her line to just “You don’t believe that.”

Making the Dagger an Ancient Artifact

• In order to make the dagger distinctly ancient, redub Red-Eyed 3PO to give a new translation of the dagger. Instead of giving the exact coordinates, the new translation instructs the wielder to hold the dagger and embrace the darkness it holds. If they accept this “test”, the dagger will show them the way.
• Cut Finn saying, “The Endor system? Isn’t that where the last war ended?” This will be pushed to later. They don’t have time to react to the translation, because the First Order shows up.
• After Rey senses the dagger on the ship, cut Poe asking why they need it, and Rey saying, “A feeling.” The new translation makes it clear that they need the dagger to find the Wayfinder.
• When Rey picks up the dagger and stares at it, she begins hearing whispers/screams and eventually sees a quick glimpse of the Death Star ruins. Kylo Ren interrupts her right after this moment. (This would tie in well to the whispers guiding her to vault on the Death Star, as Ascendant currently has it.)
• At the beginning of the scene with Rey and Finn fixing the Falcon, add a part of Finn’s earlier line, “The Endor system? Where the last war ended?” (Either sentence, both likely won’t fit). Rey continues “All that matters is finding the Wayfinder. Finding Exegol.” Adding the line here helps clarify that Rey told them about her vision of the Death Star after they regrouped, and now they are heading there.

Ha, yeah, look at me - I clearly didn’t realize there was any difference. And even if someone tried to complain, you could just say that the other troopers were some different rank or class of soldier. I say go for it - that sounds like a really awesome idea, and I’d love to see it in action!

Jar Jar Bricks said:

sherlockpotter said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

omnimuffin said:

Hal 9000 said:

Just sent the auralnauts a cordial message asking if they’d be at all interested.

It seems like if we did redub 3PO, it would open the question of how Kylo knew to go to Endor. Although, honestly… it’s hard to care too much about it anyway. The film doesn’t answer this other than allowing one to guess Kylo also had it translated. It does, however, establish then and there that Kylo “know[s] where she’s going” at least. That would be missing from this cut. It seems like the cost for reinstating it here would be to also reinstate the premature reveal that Chewie is alive.

Another issue is that 3PO translating the inscription doesn’t give the characters any solid information. In the theatrical, it provided important information and the heroes had to have both that knowledge and the blade itself. In this proposed plot revision, they would essentially only learn that they… need to get the blade back. All they’d learn is that Rey needs to tap into darkness somehow. Feels a little muddy.

It does seem like this muddies the movie more than it cleans it up. Personally, I’d just accept the doofy Goonies-style treasure clues as a cheesy but essential element of the movie and leave that portion relatively intact, because much of the movie is structured around them.

No kidding. Nobody says “well now we have to get the dagger back” after 3PO’s message plays (in fact, they seem more happy about the message than anything since Babu celebrates). Furthermore, Finn even questions why Rey is heading off to explore the ship by saying “Chewie is this way.” Never at one point do the characters say “go look for the dagger.” It’s always “We’re coming, Chewie” and “go save your friend”.

It’s honestly quite mind-boggling how much this movie relies on the dagger giving an exact answer.

Does Babu give a frak that the Wayfinder is on Endor? I thought he just cheers because his hack worked.

And all you’d need to do is swap in some new Poe dialogue. From:

Rey: We need the dagger.
Poe: Why?
Rey: A feeling.

To:

Rey: We need the dagger.
Poe: You know where?
Rey: A feeling.

Like I’ve said, I just don’t see how the dagger translation not explicitly telling them what to do is more contrived than an ancient Sith Artifact listing the exact coordinates of the 30-year-old Death Star.

I just think it’s a whole lot of trouble and removal of stuff for absolutely nothing of value in return. Clearly I’m not bothered as much by all the intricacies of the dagger.
…
I’m willing to head cannon an easy answer as for why that is on there.

I mean, I wouldn’t call character building, thematic subtext, or lore clarifications “absolutely nothing of value in return”; so different strokes, I suppose. We’d lose…not having 3PO hand them the answer on a silver platter? Truly ruinous.

The thing is, a lot of people are bothered by the many, many contrivances of the Dagger, even if you’re not. I mean, if you have to delve into head canon to make sense of the plot at its most basic level, I’d say that’s a pretty serious failing of the film. I’ll understand if the dagger change can’t work, of course; but I’m still interesting in trying.