Sign In

Omni

User Group
Members
Join date
2-May-2019
Last activity
21-Aug-2019
Posts
92

Post History

Post
#1283410
Topic
General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread
Time

Every time I show the original film to any of my friends the reaction is the same: “pretty cool, but slow and several effects look dated”.

canofhumdingers said:

Shopping Maul said:

ZkinandBonez said:

Shopping Maul said:

I remember when ANH was perceived as a SPFX milestone with breakneck pacing. Of course these days, especially to kids, it seems cheap and slow paced.

Really? It didn’t bother me or any of my friends when we were kids during the release of the PT movies. There were plenty of modern films to compete with, yet as far as we were concerned the OT was as good as it gets. (Ditto on the orig. Indy movies.)

I’m not saying everyone was/is bothered by it, but the perception obviously changed as the films and the technology evolved. In its day Star Wars felt the way something like Infinity War might feel today - just huge and fast and mind blowing. Now of course it seems so much simpler.

My two boys (ages 3 and 5) thought Star Wars was pretty huge and fast and mind blowing when I showed them 4K77 in February. Certainly quite far from simple.

Maybe it’s because at such an early age they’d seen nothing as mind blowing as Star Wars yet?

Post
#1283365
Topic
The Marvel Cinematic Universe
Time

Took me a while to find this thread, but really good post by both of you.

DominicCobb said:

OutboundFlight said:

Continuing a conversation in the Lucasfilm’s future thread
Dom, I disagree that Endgame is made of fan service. Granted there is a fair number, in particular, the plan to win sorta makes fan service to the past impossible. Nevertheless, look at what happens to the characters .

“What happens to the characters” is not just what constitutes fan service, in my mind. Yes the plan to win makes fan service impossible to avoid, and I don’t necessarily have a problem with that. But so much time is spent on time travel shenanigans and winks and nods without accomplishing much. One of the most pointless parts is when Cap and Tony go back further to the seventies. Basically its an extended gag, as well as a moment for Tony’s character. Except his character progresses in no way during this sequence, and nothing about it affects his conclusion (beyond the base level 'getting closure with his dad). For Cap, we get set up for his character’s conclusion, but it’s basically just a plot-based set up (this is what gives him the idea) rather than a character one (why does he choose this?).

I couldn’t disagree more that the 70s part of the film was just an extended gag. To me, hearing from his dad that he’d sacrifice everything for his kid was the ultimate thing that made Tony totally willing to sacrifice himself for Pepper and Morgan as his ultimate selfless act - he’d do anything for those 2 to live a happy life, even if it meant laying down his life and trumping every chance he had of living with the 2 loves of his life. I can totally empathize with him not wanting to do that, but I can totally see why hearing his father, a man he saw as barely more than a cold and calculist guy, saying he’d do anything for his kid, would ultimately push him over to this next step. I think that’s why we went back to the 70s. For Cap it was nice foreshadowing, because maybe casual audience members forgot about Peggy.

–Hawkeye goes on a murderous rampage, breaking their morals to try to cope with loss. They do this for an extended period and exit the movie happy but also with sins they hadn’t had before.

In terms of screen time, I’m not sure “extended period” is the right descriptor. As well, we have to understand that Hawkeye is not on the same level of belovedness as the other characters. It’s not exactly a comparable anti-fan service situation to, say, Luke in TLJ, because also Hawkeye’s turn is bad ass (even if it’s bad), and it’s at least partly a nod to the comics (Ronin). The other thing you have to consider, is the fact that basically none of the Avengers have a problem with his bloodthirst, and it ends up not being mentioned at all except on Vormir as a means to make you think that he might sacrifice himself instead of BW (otherwise the choice would have been obvious).

Yes, I feel I don’t need to add anything or counterpoint anything here. Nod to the comics + making us believe in his potential sacrifice.

–Thor sinks into some serious depression which takes a huge toll on them emotionally and physically. Where before this hero was the most “heroic” in Infinity War, but in Endgame they must entirely restart their hero’s journey.

Yeah Thor gets his big fan servicey moments in IW so they didn’t feel bad making him more comic relief in this one, especially since this isn’t a conclusion for him and a lot of his character growth is kicked down the road for the next movie he’ll be in.

I loved Thor in the film, and as OutboundFlight put it, his ‘rise from nothing’ character arc. The reset in his hero’s journey, from a certain point of view. And also the fact that most of the film’s themes are communicated through his mother’s conversation with him, despite the fact that his side mission was the comic relief one. Perfect balance throughout the whole sequence, IMO.

–Thanos, who has been seriously hyped up, is anticlimactically killed off in favor of a more compelling plot.

I loved that part. Then they went and brought him back, and made him half as interesting - he was a compelling villain who posed an interesting and challenging philosophical conflict for the heroes, but ultimately the stakes in the final battle end up just being “save the Earth.”

Agreed here.

–Iron Man, whom we may expect will get a “rise from nothing” character arc (that was surprisingly given to #2) becomes finally happy after the opening act. This is the sort of thing you would expect their character to end on… but instead, that character leaves their happy family to do the right thing and dies. They had everything and they lost it to save the world.

A heroic sacrifice falls squarely into the bounds of fan service if you ask me, especially when he’s literally given an “it’s okay” from his wife so leaving his family behind doesn’t seem all that tragic.

Tony’s death really bothers me if I’m being honest. It’s good that we’re talking about TLJ as well because I found Luke’s death to be a great point of comparison. Their deaths are essentially the same right? They pull one last powerful trick to save the day, but it costs them their lives. Here’s the big difference. We know that both Tony and Luke are the types of guys who’d sacrifice themselves to save someone else. That’s not anything new, we’ve seen that before (Avengers 1 and ROTJ). So how do you make this feel like a poignant and satisfying conclusion to their story? You add a complication. At the start of TLJ, Luke is done being a Jedi, has cut himself off from the Force, and refuses to help. In Endgame, they actually do give Tony the complication - he has a family now, a reason to not sacrifice himself. But whereas every single scene Luke has in TLJ is building up to the moment where he makes the choice to save the Resistance, in Endgame, all we get are couple short scenes at the end of the first act where Tony decides merely to risk his life and the life of his family. Him coming to the decision to actually sacrifice himself and leave his family behind isn’t dramatized anywhere in the film.

I believe I tried to counterpoint this earlier in this post but I’ll try again, going a bit more in-depth. Tony at the start of the film was given everything, as opposed to the rest of the world. In a way he had gone back to being very selfish, with a barrier probably more difficult to break (or at least as difficult) as the one Luke had in TLJ. Still, selfless Tony is still inside him and he eventually figures it all out and even volunteers to help, already a heck of a risk and a reflection that his old selfless character hadn’t gone completely even if he now had something much bigger than he ever had before. So he still wasn’t ready to go all the way through, until the travel back to the 70s. The way I interpreted it was that the talk Tony had with his father is ultimately what pushed him over the edge and that’s why that sequence is so important. So all throughout the film Tony’s character progresses from selfish to selfless, one more time, and finally, closure.

The other thing that bothers me is the manner of their death. I will say when I first saw TLJ, Luke’s death left me a little cold, just because it wasn’t clear until that moment that this would kill him. But the thing that’s makes it okay is that this isn’t just Luke sacrificing himself, it’s him becoming one with the Force (the thing that’s he’s shut out for so long), which is nicely symbolic of his final trick securing his legacy as one of the greatest Jedi ever - he dies but he still lives on, in more ways than one.

For Tony, the cause of death is Infinity Gauntlet poisoning, which, unlike TLJ, is set up. But I personally find it a rather bland choice by the filmmakers. The Infinity Gauntlet gives its wielder an absolutely incredible amount of power, power no one person should have. Thanos fancies himself some sort of god, and believes he has a right to this power. But the power of the Gauntlet is only considered dangerous on a physical level in Endgame. First they have Hulk do it because he can withstand the gamma, and it feels like a nice moment for him because he’s struggled with gamma for so long. But that’s merely an external conflict. There’s a potential here for some challenging inner turmoil. What if Bruce didn’t think he could handle the responsibly and he had to grow towards it? On the flip side, for Tony, he’s being trying and failing for so long now to put “a suit of armor around the world.” The Gauntlet would give him the ability to finally succeed at this mission. But of course it’s always been a dangerous mission, and one that’s tapped into dark aspects of Tony’s personality. Having all the stones could have provided Tony with the ultimate internal conflict, and deciding to do the right thing and give them up would have been (in my opinion) the perfect climactic decision for his character to make. But maybe that’s just me.

“deciding to do the right thing and give them up would hae been (in my opinion) the perfect climatic decision for his character to make.”

Well, he had overcome those demons a while ago, hadn’t he? Sure at the beginning when he was thin and probably suffering with PTSD not to mention depression he brought it back up, but I don’t think he meant it at all, and when he’s healthy and happy and OK again he never once mentions anything of the sort. I can see what you’re saying and yes that would’ve been pretty cool, but at the moment of his sacrifice he was at absolute peace and had already overcome every internal obstacle and conflict that had been posed to him throughout all films.

I can totally see what you’re saying and I get it and would’ve been really smart and cool, but I’m very satisfied with what actually was in the movie. I feel like that was Age of Ultron’s conflict, and that only came back in his weakest inner moment - right after getting beat up pretty bad and almost dying in space. Once again, at the time of his sacrifice, he was at absolute peace and at his strongest inside.

Granted two of the six avengers manage to get the happy ending they deserved and one gets to have a glorious moment out. But the other three and our purple friend are intentionally broken and rebuilt for the movie. But the fans still enjoyed the movie- suggesting “subverting expectations” can be done in a way that both surprises and pleases the fans. As I am sure many who enjoyed TLJ already knew.

I’ll save my problems with how the other three are handled for another day. I’ll just end with this: I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with fan service, and I think there’s certainly some entertainment value to be had from it, which is not nothing. My problem is only when the fan service gets in the way of the story; in Endgame, I’d say specifically where I take issue is the extended time travel shenanigans, which puts a few (not all) of the character arcs on the back burner for the purpose of a good time, and especially the final battle, which is basically pure spectacle that overshadows any potential for inner character conflict or deeper philosophical/thematic conflict and comes down to a very base level all of us vs. all of them, with the stakes being merely ‘win or lose.’

While I agree with you here, I think the way the Russos executed it was good enough to make me buy that all the inner and philosophical/thematic conflict had been resolved by then.

Post
#1283202
Topic
Star Wars Episode II: The Approaching Storm (Finished!)
Time

Yes, right after the chase scene we still see Obi-Wan with Anakin’s lightsaber. While it’s very brief, I think some people will notice. So if V6 eventually does happen, if the lightsaber could be painted out from Obi-Wan’s hand, that’d be great.

Another small thing I feel I should point out in the wake of V6 talks and whatnot, is to ask if the audio transition from the first Anakin/Padmé kiss to Kamino could be smoothed out a bit more. Maybe extend the shot a little bit so that the music can come to its original, more natural abrupt ending?

No big deal for either of these, but it’d be cool if those two small things could be improved nonetheless.

Post
#1283201
Topic
Lucasfilm's movie plans post Ep. IX
Time

DominicCobb said:

NeverarGreat said:

DominicCobb said:

OutboundFlight said:

Cthulhunicron said:

Buzzfeed just reported that a script has been completed for a KOTOR movie.

Don’t trust Buzzfeed.

DominicCobb said:

OutboundFlight said:

Omni said:

OutboundFlight said:

How so?

I think there’d be too many expectations from a lot of people that’d potentially ruin the films whichever way they go.

I’d be all in for more personal stories set during the Clone War, I think it’d really do wonders for that time period. We get some of it from the TV shows, but nothing actually good.

But yeah if they want to stay away from the main saga at all costs I think the old republic era is definitely the most logical pick. I really don’t want it to be a Jedi story though, I think it’d be cool to see more Rogue One-like films.

You say there’d be too many expectations, but the Clone Wars has an even greater chance of “offending” people as it is directly connected to the films. And while I love the era there are many OT fans who don’t want to return to the PT, and I respect that… TOR is a fresh start for everyone.

I think about it like the MCU. You have a ton of comics/books/games on the era, and the producers are now free to tell their own story. Most complaints regarding the ST from fans has been towards inconsistent writing (agree or disagree). But by adapting characters you would be more in an MCU position.

Man, the MCU is a lot of things but I don’t think I would ever say that it has “consistent writing.” The less SW can be like the MCU the better honestly (and I love the MCU).

Well, one thing you have to admit is how happy and united the fandom is. A consistent vision is my stab at the answer to that. While any piece of new SW material will divide people. I was convinced Endgame would divide people for providing a definitive ending… but that’s not the case.

I couldn’t care less whether the fandom is divided or not. I care about the quality of the movie. People love Endgame but that’s because they created the film in such a way that their main goal was fan service/not making fans mad. I think that’s a poor way to approach a film when it’s at the expense of the story (which I’d argue is the case with that film). But anyway, fans don’t care and eat it up. That’s why it’s well received, not because the MCU has a “consistent vision” which is a claim that has no basis in reality.

The big reason Endgame worked for me is that most of the characters got resonant, consistent conclusions to their arcs. I guess that could be called fanservice, since it’s something that fans of the characters wanted to see. This is in Stark contrast to, for example, the final season of Game of Thrones. Since the showrunners were supposedly working off of the author’s own notes I can only assume that the story beats were what Martin intended when he handed them off, but the rushed execution resulted in character arcs which became incoherent or dropped entirely by the end of the show. It’s the case of story over character, and it is much worse than the Endgame approach of character over story. I think the ST so far also has this problem (with TLJ being the worst offender so far) to the point that almost every major character is uncoupled from their defining flaw or trauma when it is convenient to the story.

When I say Endgame priotized fan service over story, understand that I consider character to be at least half of what makes a story. I would actually say Thrones is a perfect comparison to Endgame, where the conclusions make sense for the characters in a broad sense but none of the legwork is put in to make them feel earned or satisfying. The only glaring difference being that the MCU has never been all that invested in consistent and clear character development, whereas Thrones has always been very granular and gradual in that regard so descending into mostly spectacle only ends up feeling wrong for one of them (the other difference being that the MCU conclusions are crowd pleasing).

I’d say they both make TLJ seem like a masterpiece of character work in comparison (which is not necessarily something I would call it). TLJ is the only of the three that actually seems to take any interest in putting time into coherent character progression.

Agreed. TLJ’s fatal flaw to me is that I can’t, no matter how hard I try, get behind Rey. It’s of course due to her very unearned and unbelieavable force powers, IMO. It’s the only major problem I have with the movie - which I’ve come to the conclusion is the consequence of two things: the lack of a time gap between the TLJ and TFA (RIP suspension of disbelief that’d always been there for the saga to make us believe in off-screen progress throughout the years) and TFA’s portrayal of her. Sure TLJ took it even further, but it all started in TFA.

Still, her character progresses. One thing I’d understand people criticizing TLJ on is that it re-utilizes some of the very same arcs from TFA. Rey’s works very well, especially due to so little time having passed between the two films and the expansion on the ‘belonging’ aspect of her character. Finn’s character arc, for me, works well too. In TFA, he grew from running away to fighting for something bigger than himself - his friends. In TLJ, he goes from fighting for something bigger than himself but still something that mattered ‘only’ to him to fighting for something bigger than every one person can be - a cause. Poe’s arc in this movie is wonderful, and it’s the only part of the film where I don’t understand so many anger towards. I mean sure you can pick it apart, and criticize military strategy or whatever, but… ah whatever. Rose had a very nice character arc as well, going from the naive girl that believes in the black and white world to someone that finally sees grey and the reality and sadness of war, understands the cost and yet still believes in good. Unfortunately her character is part of a scene I dislike very much (“Not fighting what we hate - saving what we love”.) due to me believing Finn would’ve been able to take down the cannon while sacrificing himself and fulfilling his character arc, but oh well. He does have to be alive for the sequel, I guess.

Luke’s character arc in the film is definitely the cherry on top. I’m not really a fan of how it was set up, and I don’t fully buy what happened between him and Ben, but Hamill’s acting sells it enough for me to be able to fully enjoy the deconstruction of his character to his very core and the arc’s eventual fulfillment, in the most beautiful shot of the film.

Despite TLJ being far from a favorite of mine, I do not see where in the film do any characters “lack their defining flaw because plot”. I’d love to hear you expand on that, NeverarGreat. I don’t watch GOT so I can’t talk about that, but I saw Endgame as the ‘perfect’ ending to every one of the characters, Tony being the highlight due to being the best developed MCU character by a country mile. Cap also had a great sendoff and I quite liked Thor in the film, except for how some of the humor around him worked and all that. The other characters aren’t really worth mentioning I don’t think, because nothing really big happens to them. Maybe Black Widow but she didn’t really change that much in spite of everything that happened.

Edit: I probably derailed the thread pretty bad. Sorry OP and mods.

Post
#1283184
Topic
Star Wars Episode III: Labyrinth Of Evil (Finished!)
Time

Octorox said:

There’s also the l8wrtr order:

[Anakin and Obi-Wan make up and Obi-Wan boards the Star Destroyer] > [Anakin and Padmé in apartment] > [Obi-Wan banters with Cody and takes off in his Fighter] > [Sunset Palpatine office scene] > [Obi-Wan arrives on Utapau]

It sounds like it would be jarring but it actually works quite well in his edit.

+1 for this. It’s at least worth a shot, IMO.

Post
#1283095
Topic
STAR WARS: EP VI -RETURN OF THE JEDI &quot;REVISITED EDITION&quot;<strong>ADYWAN</strong> - <strong>NOW IN PRODUCTION</strong>
Time

Telion said:

coupled with the blue/cyan tint present in all the special edition blu-rays

This isn’t completely true. Return of the Jedi’s blu-ray has actually much less blue than the original version did in several scenes, but in most shots yes, there’s a blue tint over the film.

Post
#1283094
Topic
General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread
Time

This is kind of crazy to me. There are so many fair points to complain and discuss about on TLJ and people choose to stress over bombs? It’s not even a good nitpick. It’s so, for the lack of a better word, and apologies in advance if offending anyone, stupid. I don’t know what went through those people’s heads when watching the movie but I’m glad it didn’t happen in mine.

Post
#1282800
Topic
Lucasfilm's movie plans post Ep. IX
Time

Jesta’ said:

adywan said:

Jesta’ said:

How would you people feel if Disney released the OOT in glorious 4K and then Lucas bought back the franchise and made a proper Sequel Trilogy?

There already is a proper sequel trilogy.

Sort of. Star Wars isn’t really Star Wars without George at the helm IMHO

That’s an interesting discussion. I kimd of agree, but for example:

I notice Harley Quinn is your avatar here. I take it you’re a Batman fan, right? So, is Batman really Batman without Bob Kane and Bill Finger? Is Paul Dini eligible to write Batman stories and whatnot? So Rian Johnson should be eligible to write a Star Wars film, no?

Post
#1282300
Topic
The Phantom Menace - Theatrical version scanned in 4K
Time

Very well, thanks for the reply and for all the effort. In case of financial trouble I (and other members, certainly) volunteer to help cover the costs. $10k is quite a bit of money.

And from my understanding, Team Negative1 has no TPM prints, so… with several Star Wars and other media projects being worked on right now by the team, I doubt 4K99 is a priority.

Post
#1281789
Topic
Star Wars Episode III: Labyrinth Of Evil (Finished!)
Time

Hal 9000 said:

Here’s a new version of this scene, with the music in much better shape. I used left and right channels to fill in the center whenever there is no dialogue or non-traffic foley, in order to only have one innocuous crossfade of the musical score. Sounds much better.

https://vimeo.com/336494390
password: fanedit

By the way, concerning this scene, something that’s always distracted me is how in the last shot the water fountain’s noise suddenly comes in really loud, despite not being there for every other shot in the scene. I wonder if it annoys anyone else? And if so, if it’s fixable/worth the effort?

Post
#1281782
Topic
Lucasfilm's movie plans post Ep. IX
Time

OutboundFlight said:

How so?

I think there’d be too many expectations from a lot of people that’d potentially ruin the films whichever way they go.

I’d be all in for more personal stories set during the Clone War, I think it’d really do womders for that time period. We get some of it from the TV shows, but nothing actually good.

But yeah if they want to stay away from the main saga at all costs I think the old republic era is definitely the most logical pick. I really don’t want it to be a Jedi story though, I think it’d be cool to see more Rogue One-like films.

Post
#1281645
Topic
Star Wars Episode III: Labyrinth Of Evil (Finished!)
Time

Hal 9000 said:

About “General Skywalker.” That title is nowhere in the films and, while it’s plausible, I just don’t see benefit in tossing it in there. It’s appropriate for Anakin to be something of “the learner” and Anakin moves along in this film as someone deeply accustomed to be something of a slave. He and Obi-Wan are both knights, but he’s certainly newer at it.
Anakin having a padawan of his own prior to Episode III never felt right to me, personally.

100% with you here. I love The Clone Wars but it never felt like a bridge between AotC and RotS to me. I’ve always imagined that it’s its own thing, in sort of a parallel universe. Clone Wars (2003), on the other hand… but enough derailing the thread.

Hal 9000 said:

I’m afraid I am not having any luck with removing Palpatine’s lines about the Jedi killing “all the senators” and Anakin believing the Jedi will move against the Senate. The rear channels are free of dialogue… some of the time, but not during a critical shot. The music playing at that point does not appear on the soundtrack, either. I can’t do anything further than I already have with that conversation without making a big mess out of the music. Hopefully in this version we can somewhat believe that Anakin is choosing to believe these things about the Jedi.

Do you consider using stuff from “The Ultimate Edition” of the soundtrack which can be found on YouTube? You may be able to find the isolated music for the scene you’re looking for there.