I’d consider it fantasy simply because it’s a fairy tale. Change a few things of the setting here and there and boom - fairy tale. There’s a princess, an old wise wizard, the coming of age protagonist, a dark evil knight, a giant fortress… it even starts with “Once upon a time, in a land far away…”!
Amazing Neverar. Very creative, and flawless execution. Gives us a better idea of the whole “awakening” aspect of TFA and how everything came to be. Makes things a bit less abstrac in the right amount. Great job. Keep it up! 😄
Ady, those look beautiful! Damn!
I’ve been following this edit for a long time now, and haven’t really had time to be checking the thread for the latest developments lately, so I’m not only here to compliment you on your absolutely fantastic work Neverar, but also to thank you for updating the OP and making it so comprehensive. This is probably going to be one of the greatest fanedits ever, at least in technical terms. Your passion and devotion to making everything as best as you can is that of few. Thank you for this incredible project and congrats on the general awesomeness!
darthrush did that for his edit, it’s pretty good. There’s also the moment right after Luke leaves the Ewoks and the gang to surrender himself to Vader.
IIRC Ady said that he would look into it but wouldn’t go out of his way to try and change the line.
Ignore the troll.
You, for Disney bashing for no reason.
And for bashing Hayden and Lucas as well.
Thinking back to my first viewing, I’m not sure I’ve ever experienced a sequence that’s put me more on the edge of my seat than this one (nor an audience more rapt). There’s a lot of amazing suspense films out there of course (and many which are obviously superior to this film), but this is the true return of Luke Skywalker. Not only is it something I had anticipated for decades in real life, it’s something that’s built up in both TFA and TLJ, with the latter providing a real emotional heft to the proceedings (in terms of Luke’s character’s journey, and his confrontation with Kylo). To top that all off with a clever and exciting bit of Force wizardry really is the cherry on top of what is surely one of the best sequences in the saga (and probably my favorite of the ST so far).
TPM: Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan are combined into one character: Obi-Wan. OR (and?) make Anakin a young adult and the person whom he’s emotionally attached to is Uncle Owen, for a believable arc.
AotC: Have more Dooku background exposition.
RotS: Luke & Leia aren’t siblings.*
ESB: Have Yoda not say anything about the other.*
RotJ: No DSII - instead, have the action that originally happens there be set in the imperial capital like it’d been planned, and the Endor part of the mission is the gang infiltrating the planet in a spy-like mission to disable some shields and whatnot and blow stuff from the inside-out. No sibling stuff.*
TFA: No SKB - have the film be about the search for Luke, in a race-against-time like fashion.
TLJ: Not sure.
This particular topic could be debated in any of the films threads, but since it covers the ST as a whole, I figured we should make a new thread instead of using older ones or going out of subject in other threads, such as in DrDre’s “TROS Box Office Predictions” thread.
To start things off, I spot many similarities in what’s been done so far, and it’s one of the big turn offs from this Sequel Trilogy (the biggest one is I don’t fully believe Rey’s character and her abilities, but that’s for another thread).
Anyway, as early as opening night of TFA the complaints that it was nothing more than a rehash started. I remember even Harmy, despite having a mostly positive review of the film, stating its plot was very, very similar to Star Wars’. And that’s the one thing I think is objectively true - the plots for both movies are very similar. And when they’re not, the rest, for some reason, is. I’ll get to that. The story of the movies differs quite a bit though, especially given the similarities in the plot.
I think that what gives me (and most) the rehash feeling is that, while in theory the status quo in the galaxy at the beginning of TFA is very different from what was going on at the beginning of SW, when it comes to what happens in the movie, it’s really not that different. In SW we have a big bad Empire, with limitless resources, etc. and a small group of rebels, struggling to fight the huge evil Empire. In TFA, in theory, we have a scattered First Order and a strong, unwilling to act Republic, with a small group of “radicals”, the Resistance. But when it gets down to the film, the FO has limitless resources and unlimited power, the Republic is meaningless and blown to bits without having anything to do, and the Resistance becomes a small band of rebels. So… we do get to the very same point we were in the beginning of SW. That’s not to mention that if not for EU content I never would’ve known of the Republic’s part in all of this and I’d assume, like I did when I first saw the film, that the Resistance was the Rebels and the FO the Empire, and… it made no sense.
TFA is not the only film guilty of resetting the status quo, though. TLJ’s scope is very small, sure, but what happens in the movie is essentially the same thing. In the movie’s environment there’s a limitless-resources group of Imperials pursuing a small band of scattered Rebels, and that’s it. Rey even mentions how “the First Order will take control of all of the major star systems within weeks!” to Luke! So they do end up seeming undefeatable.
Now, if we go deeper than just the setting of the films, there’s the actual plot. TFA’s and SW’s plots are very similar. TFA even manages to have trench runs and a Death Star attack despite the McGuffin question not being about the Starkiller Base at all…
The ending of TFA is, from what I’ve seen, widely regarded as the weakest part of the film because of that, and it’s definitely the most insulting of the similarities. An interesting question is if it would’ve been more original to simply have the ending fully centered around getting to Luke, like SW is about the Death Star, or not, since the way they went basically replayed beat by best something we’d previously seen before. And that’s not to mention how similar the characters are. Sure, they’re following conventional genre tropes, but when the rest of the things are as similar as they are… There’s a lot more to cover, but I’d like to address a bit of TLJ in this first post as well.
With TLJ, things are a bit different. If you think in terms of a mdoern retelling of the OT, as DrDre put it a while ago, TFA left us in the beginning of TESB, with the Empire’s attack about to happen, which is the first thing that happens in TLJ. TLJ takes a lot more freedoms that TFA didn’t, and does create some amazing sequences and masterful moments. But in the end, we arrive at Throne Room 2.0, and this one really is nothing more than a version 2 of a previous sequence. The outcome is different, but it’s still the main character trying to turn the bad guy back to the good side, with a bad guy sitting on a throne. There’s actual repeated dialogue IIRC, and the scene flows so similarly to ROTJ’s scene that this scene was, out of the entirety of both TFA and TLJ, the one scene that made me feel like I was watching a remake, or a reboot of some sort.
Anyway, act 3 of TLJ ends and, well, with it the mini 1.5movie long OT inside the ST. So act 4 of TLJ was interesting because it brought something new to the table, and I honestly can’t wait for TROS and see what’s to come.
I think that the whole “similarity” aspect of the ST hurt the movies quite a bit, in many ways. For example, TLJ feels slow and rushed at the same time, with stuff like Rey literally mailing herself to Kylo and the whole thing being done in half a dozen 5 seconds long shots, while the pace of the film is uneven and… agh, this is another issue again.
Well folks, debate away.
Did I see a mothball fleet of OT star destroyers?
I did too… I also heard Vader breathing right before the final shot. Probably just referring to Anakin’s turn to the dark side but maybe not just that?
I have to say, despite Palpatine looking a little cartoony, I really like this teaser poster.
My feelings as well.
Frasier is involved (easily the best part of that film), seemingly none of the rest of that movie’s creative team is . (save Kennedy, naturally). Interested to see what Favreau and the rest do with it. At the moment, I’ve got high hopes.
This right here is what I tried to say.
Yeah, if the show was set before TESB like TCW is, I think it’d take away from the whole carbon freeze thing. But since it’s set after TESB, I think it works well.
And RO is by far my favorite post-2005 SW related thing, so I’m super excited that the DP is the same and the whole feel is the same. I think RO also drew inspiration from, very specifically, the aesthetic of the first act of the first film. I couldn’t be more excited. I think this is what Lucasfilm should’ve been doing since the Disney acquisition. Lucas already told his story. Of course they’d have to release VII - IX, but IMO they shouldn’t have. They should’ve just focused on telling stories in this endless universe that is the SW galaxy. I haven’t watched Solo, but RO is one of my favorite SW films. And this is looking like is going to be one of my favorite pieces of SW media. Yay!
I think he was too much inside the lines. He’s talking as if he made something completely different and… I don’t think he did. It’s a very good movie, one I enjoy quite a bit - some incredibly well directed sequences and my all time favorite moment in the franchise (Luke vs. FO), but… it’s still a very derivative movie. A lot of the time it felt to me as if I was watching TESB + RotJ + x = TLJ, x being the bit of originality the movie had. To me that was the dynamic between Rey, Kylo and Luke, which is exactly the sort of great expansion from something in the OT (the connection Luke, Vader and Ben had) I was hoping we’d get in the ST. It’s inspired by, but not so much of an almost-copy as some of TFA and some (albeit much less) of TLJ. It’s brilliant. A bit of Canto Bight and the Holdo-Poe dynamic are also original aspects of the movie in my view. So yeah, there is quite a bit of originality, but it’s not enough for him to proudly claim he “step[ped] outside of the bounds of what the original movies did”, or something. Again, it’s a nice movie, and I enjoy it enough, but I don’t think it’s this far out thing a lot of people, including the film’s director, say it is.
Maybe someone could enlighten me? From all of the discussion I’ve seen regarding TLJ, the fact that it’s a very different movie is usually a given, and… I don’t get it.
If you look into it the lore of TFA isn’t all that confusing, there’s the New Republic which is dealing with Imperial Renamnt terrorists, the First Order, who even have their own ripoffs of Palpatine and Vader (one might ponder if their appearance is intentionally similar, to get more people remembering the OT). Leia wants to fight the First Order while the New Republic would prefer to let them be.
The problem is all in the presentation. In the thrill of the action, you don’t think like above. But they could have easily fixed this. Go to the Republic’s capital and listen in on a Senate meeting (like TPM). And properly build up Starkiller (like they did in Ep4 and 6 with the title crawls) instead of just showing up halfway through the movie and taking all the spotlight.
Disclaimer: I’m almost playing devil’s advocate here simply to spark discussion, despite the fact that i thoroughly believe everything I’m saying here. Still, I enjoy both TFA (in particular the first half hour) and especially TLJ quite a bit.
The First Order functions like the Empire did in terms of plot though. They’re the limitless-resources-big-bad guys, and the Resistance is just the Rebellion. This reset in the status quo is the biggest turn off to me in terms of the ST. It’s mostly TFA’s fault, though TLJ is also to blame since it could’ve easily fixed most of these issues, but it instead only amplified them…
If TFA had been about finding Luke from beginning to end, the rehash aspects would be much less prominent. Though like you said SKB takes the spotlight halfway through and essentially functions exactly like SW’s Death Star, making TFA go by the very same story beats SW goes by. Worth mentioning that by that point TFA was derivative enough already (Rey and BB-8 - Luke & the droids, going to the cantina, etc.) though to me, when SKB becomes the major point of the film is where it started getting close to ridiculous.
TLJ is guilty of ripping off OT stuff as well. Compare the way RotJ’s throne room scene is referenced in RotS and TLJ. RotS creates parallels by using similar visuals and angles to strengthen said parallels, and to contrast the decision Anakin takes to the one that Luke takes. It rhymes, and it’s a very nice and intelligent moment in the movie, IMHO. TLJ on the other hand, reutilizes lines of dialogue and the entire sequence of events (when Rey looked out the window I got so upset because it was the very same scene as ROTJ!!) with an outcome so similar that I was stunned at how not-creative the whole scene was, despite the awesome fight scene at the end…
To me, the ST only started its own path the moment the fourth act of TLJ begun. And with that I mean salt planet. The rest was, like DrDre put it, a modern retelling of the OT to capture our nostalgic hearts. TLJ, obviously, with a couple more twists than TFA, but I’m sure it can still be easily classified as a soft reboot.
My last two cents on the “is TFA just SW 2.0?” argument: This video, in which the guy tries to be as unbiased as possible. It’s a good video.
I will say it’s baffling to see people saying that TFA doesn’t have the same plot as SW. The story isn’t exactly the same (even though it’s incredibly similar) but the plot is, pretty much, the very same thing…
Hal 9000 said:
I’ve never watched it this way, but next time I’d like to watch part 1 of the Clone Wars microseries right after Episode II, then part 2 another day right before Episode III. Then Rogue One one night, followed by ANH the next night.
All in the presence of someone who is uninitiated, so I can exercise my vampire nature through watching vicariously.
I’ve done this before, and it’s perfect. CW bridges the gap perfectly in a way that TCW leaves a lot to be desired. I consider most of what happens in TCW a “what if” anyway. It’s really hard for me to buy that Anakin had an apprentice in between AotC and RotS…
Strongly disagree, but the OT-ST parallels have been beaten to death. Still though, TFA and SW have basically the same plot. Different story, but the plot is so similar that if Lucas were to sue claiming it’s a ripoff I’m sure he’d win. Most of TLJ’s plot points have also appeared in TESB or ROTJ as well, so TROS is the one film that finally might bring something new to the table.
Yes, Tartakovsky’s series. It’s widely regarded as a very good series, especially around these parts. I consider it to be much better than the 2008 series, and I think many other users share my opinion.
I really like 2011’s cover art. The discs though… I mean, just why… and how could they go from the beautiful front and back cover art to the awful discs art is beyond me.
+1 for ROTS as best and TPM as worst prequels.
Oh, wait… hahaha, it’s funny how most people not from this forum that I’ve talked to about this seem to agree that ROTS is the best of the bunch and TPM the worst.
I would recommend the following changes:
After Hux says, “We have them tied on the end of a string,” cut to Kylo entering the throne room and Snoke saying “Tied on a string indeed.”
Move the deleted scene of Luke mourning Han’s death to right after he says, “Where’s Han”
Cut the Tie Fighters shooting the bridge and Leia blasting into space and flying back
Cut Finn and Rose’s subplot and Poe and Holdo’s subplot
Reinstate the caretaker scenes and Luke’s third lesson
Replace Holdo with Admiral Ackbar in the hyperspace Kamikaze attack (borrowing shots from Ivan Ortega)
Re-edit Finn’s sacrifice so that an AT-AT shoots down Rose, Finn tries to sacrifice himself, then an AT-AT shoots him down.
wow those changes sound awful
Yeah, he has no control at all now, I don’t think. It doesn’t make sense for Disney to pay 4 billion dollars and not have full control over it. So it’s more of a blessing than permission.
It’s just because he’s always been such an advocate for the SE and the director and writer of the film in question that they went to him. Like, if one were to ask “is George ok with this?” the ‘correct answer’ would be: “even if it technically doesn’t matter, yes, he’s ok with it, we have his blessing”.
But then again, this could be in the other thread.
Fair enough. Thanks for the explanation and clarification.