Emre1601

I hope it isn’t a fake. It looks like it could be legit?:
 

Darth Vader’s Redemption - Cinema Reaction (1983)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhHn6oD-B7M - a 2 minute video at the Clavis YouTube channel.

 
“Newly discovered clip of audience reaction to Anakin Skywalker’s redemption. It was filmed for a local news station segment displaying the public of Phoenix’s enthusiasm for the conclusion to the original trilogy.” Posted in July 2022.
 

From a time when “Force Lightning” wasn’t yet a thing.

JackNapier said:

Crosshair deserves better

He really is in a tough place at the moment.

This has been a really good story and also character arc for him, and for us viewers too.

I use ROTJ when writing, but when talking about it I use “Jedi”. Most of the people I talk with about Star Wars know that “Jedi” means ROTJ. Not many of us talk about TLJ, so there is no real misunderstandings there. Though The Last Jedi was the best of the Sequel (and Prequel) films to me.

Omni said:

Emre, are you trolling? G&G’s point seems crystal clear, are you purposefully misunderstanding?

No, of course I am not trolling. It may have been crystal clear to you, but it was obviously not to me. Nor MBS too. MBS in their post above explains this better than I can.

Marooned Biker Scout said:

I love this thread!

+1.

G&G-Fan said:

First of all, I’m not claiming that Kane and General Vader were combined into one character in the early drafts. I’m saying that the Vader we ended up getting post-ESB is basically a combination of those two characters.

Second of all, I think it’s very obvious that Lucas is talking about Kane and not Annikin in that quote. He likely mixed them up. As I already said.

“Lucas misspoke?”, he is “talking about Kane and not Annikin”, and “he said that for convenience because he didn’t want to have to go on and explain who Kane was”?

No. Sorry, that just doesn’t work.

Your premise of “Vader was always gonna be Luke’s father” is based on that Lucas quote. Which seems like Lucas being disingenuous once more, possibly misremembering, or caught out lying again, than what you claim it could be. His quote certainly does not hold up well to scrutiny at all, does it?

Plus, it is more like a combination of the 4 characters I listed, not two characters as you state: which I why I suggested you reading the early scripts, the 2014 comic, and also “The Secret History Of Star Wars” book.

I’ll leave it there as your premise of is short on credibility and evidence, and has some stretches and mental gymnastics going on. And I do feel like I am repeating myself. But as I said earlier, everyone is free to believe what they wish.

And if nothing else, on the evidence we have, I’m more convinced than ever after looking this stuff up over time: the scripts, TSHoSW book, Rinzler’s books, this thread, and even Lucasfilm claims: that Vader was never even thought of as being Luke’s father at all, until the time of that 2nd draft of Empire in April 1978.

G&G-Fan said:

What I said was really simple. The Darth Vader we know and love today is basically Kane Starkiller and General Vader combined into one character. Kane was a rogue Jedi cyborg and Annikin Starkiller’s father (who became Luke). Darth Vader in the original drafts was simply a general for the empire. The final incarnation of Darth Vader is second in command of the emperor, a cyborg and Luke Skywalker’s father.

So yes, from a certain point of view, Vader was always gonna be Luke’s father. Or at least, there was always an element of “rogue cyborg Jedi is the protagonists dad”.

I’m assuming when Lucas said it was about Annikin and his kids, he probably either misspoke, mixed up the characters, or he said that for convenience because he didn’t want to have to go on and explain who Kane was.

George in the interview you reference says:

“the very very first script it was about, um, Annikin Starkiller and his two kids. And, er, he was a rogue Jedi, and, um, there were remnants of that that sort of found its way into the final Star Wars.”

As demonstrated in my previous post, this is obviously not so: Annikin is not a rogue Jedi at all in the “very very first script” (the 1974 rough draft). Neither is he rogue, nor a Jedi, but he is the son of a Jedi. Nor does Annikin have kids.

So it is far from your claim, based on George’s quote above, that:

“Vader was always gonna be Luke’s father. It was just discarded but then we ended up getting something that more resembled the original idea.”

It never was “the original idea” that Vader was Luke’s father. “The original idea” had Vader, Valorum, Kane, Annikin, among many others. They are 4 completely separate characters, as they appear in “the very very first script” I linked to.

In my previous post I do list these 4 completely separate characters and their attributes in the early scripts that the Vader character merges with and becomes over time. But is it not simply two characters you refer to combining into one character. And it certainly did not happen in the “very very first script”.

Can you provide a link to this “very very first script” that George is talking about? Are you referring to the 1974 rough draft, which has the 4 completely separate characters, as I describe above, and in the previous post?

G&G-Fan said:

Regarding the thing about Vader always being Luke’s father, I found some info about why Lucas might have said this.

Originally, in the very early drafts, there were two characters. Kane Starkiller/Akira Valor/The Starkiller, a half-machine/half-man and Jedi-in-hiding, who is the father of the main character Annikin Starkiller (who’d later go on to be Luke Skywalker). And Darth Vader, a general for the Empire. The two characters became combined into one.

George Lucas said:

“Well, to be very honest with you, when I wrote the very very first script it was about Annikin Starkiller and his two kids. And, uh, he was a rogue Jedi, and there were remnants of that [draft] that found its way into the final Star Wars.”
-MovieFone Unscripted, 2005

So from a certain point of view, Vader was always gonna be Luke’s father. It was just discarded but then we ended up getting something that more resembled the original idea.

 
“Vader was always gonna be Luke’s father”?

You mean this guy, General Vader:

was always gonna be the father of this guy (Luke)?

I think the headcannon thread is here, and the time travel thread, here 😃

Sorry, my attempt at a joke. On a serious note I don’t quite understand what you wrote. If you mean that from watching the Moviefone video (link below), you now think because George said:

“the very very first script it was about, um, Annikin Starkiller and his two kids. And, er, he was a rogue Jedi, and, um, there were remnants of that that sort of found its way into the final Star Wars.”:

You state that:

“So from a certain point of view, Vader was always gonna be Luke’s father. It was just discarded but then we ended up getting something that more resembled the original idea”.

If this is what you meant, then it is indeed from a certain point of view, though probably just yours? It seems quite a stretch, some mental gymnastics occurring, or maybe just some headcannon, to me. No offence, you believe whatever it is that you want to believe. But I am not sure many others will agree with your certain point of view, based on your post above.

George is being disingenuous (to use a term from the OP of this thread) again here in this interview, because Annikin was not a rogue Jedi in “the very very first script”. We know this since in the “very very first script” Annikin is the son of the Jedi Kane Starkiller, who Kane takes to General Luke Skywalker to hopefully become Luke’s Padawan Learner and to eventually finish Annikin’s Jedi training. Nor was the “very very first script” about Annikin and his two kids. As already mentioned, Annikin was the son of Kane Starkiller - it was Kane who happened to have two kids. Annikin himself had no kids:

The full script can be read here: The Star Wars – Rough Draft - at the Starkiller: The Jedi Bendu Script Site (at StarWarz.com)

Unless you or George are referencing a different script in the interview? Can you provide a link to this script that George is describing?

The Q&A interview you quote can be seen in full here: “Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith’ | Unscripted | Hayden Christensen, George Lucas” 2005 video, at the Moviefone YouTube channel. The question is at 37 seconds into the video. The transcript from the relevant section of the video in full:
 

Question from Hayden Christensen:
“At what point in planning Star Wars did you decide that Darth Vader was going to be the central character?”

Answer from George Lucas:
"Well, to be very honest with you when I wrote the very very first script it was about, um, Annikin Starkiller and his two kids. And, er, he was a rogue Jedi, and, um, there were remnants of that that sort of found its way into the final Star Wars. So I would say right from the very beginning Darth Vader was a central character.”

 
I found it more interesting that George does not say that Vader was the central character in the video, or claim that the Saga was always the ‘Tragedy of Darth Vader’. Just that right from the beginning that Darth Vader was a central character. But, back on topic:

The character General Vader in the “very early drafts” was not the father of Luke. Nor was he the father of Annikin, or Kane, nor the father of any other kids. At this time Vader was ‘just’ a general for the Empire. He was not a Jedi or a Sith. He did not have any force abilities.

At some point later it seems the General Vader character was merged with this Prince Valorum character. Valorum was indeed a Sith Knight, who does use the Force, and wears a mask.

It is also feasible that at some time later some characteristics from the Jedi Kane Starkiller character, a man who slowly had become more machine than man, due to injuries from fighting over the many years, who was incidentally also the father of Annikin, also merged with the evolving character of Vader.

Then, at some point later, Vader possibly also merges (mainly the name Annikin) with Kane Starkiller’s son.

Though all four of these characters, with their various traits and attributes, merging together or being swapped out, and evolving over time (and maybe with others too?) all throughout the synopsis and early drafts of Star Wars… still does not equate to “Vader was always gonna be Luke’s father”. If anything, it further highlights this was not the case, and never was, until George Lucas wrote that 2nd draft of Empire Strikes Back in April of 1978.
 

The above text is abridged from the The Origin of Darth Vader: The Name article at the “Force Material” website. With images of the four characters drawn for “The Star Wars” comics in 2014 (based on Lucas’ 1974 rough draft).
 
 

For anyone unfamiliar when it was that George Lucas retconned Luke’s father to be Darth Vader, and hasn’t yet read the OP’s Category No 5 (this and the images above are also for me to remind myself about the evolution of Vader):

 
The first mention of Vader being Luke’s father (or being anyone else’s father), and also the first mention of Annikin/Anakin became Vader is in the 2nd draft for Empire Strikes Back, in April 1978. Even the 1st draft for Empire, written by Leigh Brackett in February 1978, it is still written as Luke’s father and Vader being two completely separate characters. This 1st draft script also has Luke’s father appearing to Luke as a force ghost and warning him of the danger posed by Vader, along with the mention of Luke’s sister, Nellith:

The Empire Strikes Back – First Draft by Leigh Brackett can be found at the Starkiller: The Jedi Bendu Script Site (at StarWarz.com)
 

Lucas is also on record in Rinzler’s Making Of book: “The thing about Vader wasn’t developed until the 4th draft [of Star Wars], when I was sorting out Vader’s real character and who he was”. Yet even here Vader and Annikin are still two completely separate characters:

 
Even in this 4th draft of Star Wars, the backstory has Vader written a disciple of Ben Kenobi, who betrayed the Jedi, and stole a kyber crystal from Ben, to become a Sith Lord. Annikin, Luke’s father, died at the Battle of Condawn, slain by Vader. Kenobi then defeats Vader, nearly killing him, and leaving Vader in need of the mask to breathe:

 
Evan over a year later, in the August 1977 Rolling Stone interview with George Lucas:

 
Lucasfilm management and employees also now state that Vader was not Luke’s father until the 2nd draft of Empire Strikes Back:

Phil Szostak, the Lucasfilm Creative Art Manager & author, in his 2019 “Star Wars Mythbusting” twitter thread:

https://twitter.com/PhilSzostak/status/1157776519923552256 (when debunking George’s “Darth Vader = Dark Father” claim)

‘Darth Vader is not Luke Skywalker’s father until the April 1, 1978 second draft of Empire Strikes Back.’:

There is a little more on the above in my recent post here: Has anyone read the book ‘The Secret History of Star Wars’ by Michael Kaminski?

 
Why not give The Star Wars comic from 2014 a read, and those early scripts for both Star Wars and Empire. I found them to be both interesting writing and stories in their own right. A “What If?” alternative universe type of thing.

Maybe give “The Secret History of Star Wars” book a read too. It has a lot of cited information on early Star Wars, including the evolution of how Vader came to be.

Out of curiosity, why did you delete this part of your post here after a month?:

“You guys on here are only angry and upset about George changing and retconning Star Wars history because he won’t release the OOT”

^ I am paraphrasing that above, as I do not remember the exact words you used.

If you still genuinely think this, I would urge you to look through the history of this forum, read the old posts from the time, or the general round up in the ‘Other websites / communities supposed issues with the OT•com, the Original Trilogy, or the unaltered theatrical cuts.’ section of An Index & Help Thread for Original Trilogy Discussion. It may help you learn more about the history of this forum, and why people on here appear to have always thought highlighting George Lucas altering Star Wars history is important. Some even wrote books and helped make or contribute to documentaries on it.

Star Wars: Jedi Temple Challenge - Trailer

Join Jedi Master Kelleran Beq, wise-cracking protocol droid AD-3, and astromech LX-R5 in Star Wars: Jedi Temple Challenge, as they guide Padawans in their quest to become Jedi Knights!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynDMTiamRRY - a 90 second video at the official Star Wars Kids YouTube channel.
 

All 10 episodes of Jedi Temple Challenge are free to watch at the official Star Wars Kids YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXsbMnnbPpLWQpPmTMhp8AqoT_I6Y6khP
 

Wookieepedia page for Jedi Master Kelleran Beq (played by Ahmed Best): https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Kelleran_Beq

Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith (2005) Teaser

“Torn between loyalty to his mentor, Obi-Wan Kenobi, and the seductive powers of the Sith, Anakin Skywalker ultimately turns his back on the Jedi, thus completing his journey to the dark side and his transformation into Darth Vader.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndbPa_b98Ho - a 102 second video at the Movie Trailer Locker YouTube channel.

Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith - Trailer

Years after the onset of the Clone Wars, the noble Jedi Knights lead a massive clone army into a galaxy-wide battle against the Separatists. When the sinister Sith unveil a thousand-year-old plot to rule the galaxy, the Republic crumbles and from its ashes rises the evil Galactic Empire. Jedi hero Anakin Skywalker is seduced by the dark side of the Force to become the Emperor’s new apprentice – Darth Vader. The Jedi are decimated, as Obi-Wan Kenobi and Jedi Master Yoda are forced into hiding. The only hope for the galaxy are Anakin’s own offspring – the twin children born in secrecy who will grow up to become heroes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UnjrG_N8hU - a 2m 30s video at the official Star Wars YouTube channel.

“Star Wars: Episode II - Attack Of The Clones (2002)” Teaser Trailer

Original teaser trailer for the 2002 film “Star Wars: Episode II - Attack Of The Clones.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA6q3vHC5L4 - a 70 second video at the Forever Cinematic Trailers YouTube channel

Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones - Trailer

Ten years after the invasion of Naboo, the galaxy is on the brink of civil war. Under the leadership of a renegade Jedi named Count Dooku, thousands of solar systems threaten to break away from the Galactic Republic. When an assassination attempt is made on Senator Padmé Amidala, the former Queen of Naboo, twenty-year-old Jedi apprentice Anakin Skywalker is assigned to protect her. In the course of his mission, Anakin discovers his love for Padmé as well as his own darker side. Soon, Anakin, Padmé, and Obi-Wan Kenobi are drawn into the heart of the Separatist movement and the beginning of the Clone Wars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYbW1F_c9eM - a 2m 30s video at the official Star Wars YouTube channel.

The 2015 Digital Collection (April 2015) - Prequel Trilogy trailers:
 

The Phantom Menace - Star Wars: The Digital Movie Collection

For the first time ever on digital, experience the heroic action and unforgettable adventures of Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlF4VwaKMxM - 70 second video at the official Star Wars YouTube channel.

Attack of the Clones - Star Wars: The Digital Movie Collection

For the first time ever on digital, watch the seeds of Anakin Skywalker’s transformation take root in Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DACKXQTaRQ - 71 second video at the official Star Wars YouTube channel.

Revenge of the Sith - Star Wars: The Digital Movie Collection

For the first time ever on digital, discover the true power of the dark side in Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ1kR64uaRI - 72 second video at the official Star Wars YouTube channel.

Borrowing Blockbusters: The Best, Worst and Weirdest Star Wars Knock Offs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aeyUWLPLAs - 57 minute video from The Bad Movie Bible

“Andor won the Critics Choice Super Award for Best Sci-fi Series!” 😃

https://twitter.com/newsandor/status/1636424023906107410

Season 2 timeline:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/vruzms/andor_official_timeline

Those Lightsider interviews with Tom Veitch are interesting to read. The 1996 interview where he talks about the Lightsider game, especially:
 

Question: “Can you tell us anything about the Lightsider project? What is it?”

Veitch: "Lightsider is a short novel I wrote, that was originally supposed to be a Star Wars novel illustrated by Dave Dorman. In the process of writing this book I invented a game that Jedi play, using the Force, called “Lightsider”. The game turned out to be quite good, I think. After I had finished creating it, I realized that it would make an excellent computer game, sort of like Myst, but different in many significant ways. In fact I may have invented a new genre of computer games. So as we were negotiating a contract I asked Lucasfilm if they could put in a clause which would allow me a royalty of some kind if they ever decided to make a computer game out of Lightsider.

Well…it turned out I pushed their button on that one. They told me it would be impossible to agree to such a royalty, and that I was way out of line asking for one! They said they don’t do business that way – they acquire all rights when you do a project for them, and you are paid only for the original project. So I elected not to sell them Lightsider, because the gaming concept was just too strong. I am in the process of marketing it elsewhere right now. The curious thing, from my point of view, was the vehemence of their reaction to my request. They could have just said “no”, and that’s that. But it was as if I had poked a scorpion with a stick or something.

Ahh…but life is sweet, and it goes on forever. The power of the Force is great, my friends. Do not fear the Emperor. Do not tremble before the minions of the dark side. Realize the Lightside of the Force, live in the Force, and the Force will be your support and your strength, even in the face of great adversity. 😉 May the Force be with you!"
 

Has anything about the Lightsider game itself surfaced recently? https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Lightsider

Or is there anywhere that has more detailed information on the game?

Ah! Excellent news.

Then we may get edited down Andor videos on the official channels sometime soon after? It is baffling why they do not livestream more shows, or show them days or weeks after. Even people who go to Celebration may want to see these panels again in the comfort of their own home afterwards.

There is also more Return of The Jedi panels added to the Celebration website as well. There was only 1 ROTJ panel and a screening of it before, now there are 5 panels listed for it. 😃

It is good to see more Andor panels added too!

They have added more panels now for Return Of The Jedi on the https://www.starwarscelebration.com/en-us/panels.html website.

There was only 1 panel on the website before. Now there are 5 panels:

40 Years of Return of the Jedi
The Science of Return of the Jedi
40 Years Later: Exploring the History Behind “Blue Harvest"
Start Your Engines (Lambda class shuttle)
Planet Leia
 

The same for Andor. Only 2 panels were on the website before. Now there are 4 panels:

The Making of Andor Season One
Behind the Magic: The Visual Effects of Andor
Andor, the Empire and a History of Resistance
The importance of Latinx representation in Star Wars

“Nice moves, old man - pretty impressive” is from The Lost Cut of Star Wars, or deleted scenes, isn’t it?

https://cantinacustoms.tripod.com/id27.htm has some great images from those early scenes.

It has Han sat down with Jenny when Ben and Luke wander over. I always thought we needed to see more of Jenny in the film!:

Both these YouTube videos have the “Nice moves, old man - pretty impressive” line too:

“Star Wars Lost Cut: Cantina Scene Re-Assembled” - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8sD6-u7g2Y (7 minutes)

“Star Wars Cantina Scene Lost Cut With Added Music Sounds And Deleted Footage” - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Brg4SytzT2U (8 minutes)

and someone from here did a great job with:

“Star Wars: The Lost Cut - Explained” - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRmCUjvZti0 (30 minute video)
 

Others here know a lot more than me on it so should be able to you.

Channel72 said:

snip

Great post.

I’m giving it another read through soon. I’d mainly forgot about Kaminski’s great work on unearthing and ordering the backstories for his early drafts of Star Wars and Empire. The backstories that became The Prequels when Lucas decided he needed more money in the early 1990’s. I wish we’d have got to see more of those early backstories onscreen as the Prequels, instead of what we actually got from 1999-2005. Or even a comic release for those backstories with Ben, Annikin, and Vader; 3 separate characters, like we got with “The Star Wars” comics release in 2014, based on George’s 1974 draft script. Maybe even a fan version comic like the one for Trevorrow & Connolly’s Episode IX film script: ‘Duel of the Fates’?

It would be really good to see a “Star Wars II by Leigh Brackett” version comic; either official or fan made.

I do like that some people at Lucasfilm are willing to to acknowledge that part of early Star Wars history, even if it contradicts George’s claims. This probably happens more since since Kaminski TSHoSW book and Rinzler’s Making Of books have been released, and more facts and evidence have become more well known. The images below are from Rinzler’s Making Of books.

https://twitter.com/PhilSzostak/status/1161026961444990976 / https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1157776507533582336.html:
 

‘In the August 1975 third draft of “The Star Wars”, Kenobi explains to Luke Starkiller that his father Annikin was killed at the “Battle of Condawn”.’:

‘The backstory to Lucas’ January 1976 fourth draft is “about Ben & Luke’s father & Vader, when they are young Jedi Knights”.’:

‘In August 1977, after the release of Star Wars, Lucas stated that Vader massacred the Jedi but Kenobi and Luke’s father Annikin survived.’:

‘Darth Vader wasn’t Luke’s father until the second draft of Empire Strikes Back in April 1978.’:

Using the same two images as above from Rinzler’s “Making Of” book, here is another take from Phil Szostak, the Lucasfilm Creative Art Manager & author, 2019 “Star Wars Mythbusting” twitter thread:

https://twitter.com/PhilSzostak/status/1157776519923552256 (when debunking George’s “Darth Vader = Dark Father” claim)

‘Darth Vader is not Luke Skywalker’s father until the April 1, 1978 second draft of Empire Strikes Back.’:

There are some illuminating articles on this at Michael Kaminski’s website for his The Secret History Of Star Wars book:

Thoughts on J.W. Rinzler’s The Making of Star Wars

The Turn: A History of the Evolution of Anakin’s Downfall

The Birth of Father Skywalker

Beyond George Lucas: Writers of the Star Wars Saga - in the “Leigh Brackett” section.

The “Marcia Lucas” section of the above article, and the full article at TSHoSW website on her is also very interesting.

I think Kaminski mentioned the old Starlog interview with George From July 1981 too in TSHoSW? I will look it up soon:

In case the above image does not show properly:

Kerri O’ Quinn: “Is there going to be character continuity among all three trilogies?”

George Lucas: “No—possibly the robots, but there weren’t originally designed to go through the whole…nobody was designed to go through all three. I’d like to see the robots go through them, but I don’t know whether they will.”

Kerri O’ Quinn: “What will provide the continuity then?”

George Lucas: "Well, the next trilogy—the first one—since it’s about Ben Kenobi as a young man, is the same character, just a different actor. And it’s the same thing with all the characters. Luke ends up in the third film of the first trilogy just three-and-a-half years old. There is continuity with the characters in other words, but not with the actors—and the look of the films will be different.”

“Forgotten Films - The Original Draft of The Empire Strikes Back”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTE1RoebkKA - a 2 minute YouTube video from Den Of Geek

adywan said:

I wonder why we haven’t had a “Disney Gallery” for Andor yet? With Mando & BOBF we have had these a few weeks after the last episode aired, but no sign of one for Andor. There’s already a BTS for Willow which aired its last episode long after Andor.

Poor, isn’t it? It is like Lucasfilm do not want to plug, promote or even talk about their own show.

No “Disney Gallery: Andor” or similar “Behind The Scenes” special, as there has been for the other series.
Nothing on the official Andor twitter for over 2 months.
Nothing on the official Star Wars YouTube channel for Andor for over 3 months.
No videos at all on Andor on the ILMVFX YouTube Channel - no “Behind The Scenes”, or “Inside ILM”, or “Virtual Production” videos.
No Andor books; such as an “Art Of Andor”, “Making of Andor”, or “Visual Guide” for Andor.
There is one panel on Andor at Celebration 2023, for an hour, but nothing else I could find.

I find it underwhelming. Lazy and unengaging too, considering both the fans’ and critics’ positive reactions and praise for Andor.

“Disney Gallery” is a formulaic show, and Disney+ and Lucasfilm have done a number of previous “Gallery” or “BTS” shows, so it shouldn’t be too difficult or time consuming to put a show together for Andor.

A Visual Guide book for “Dawn Of The Rebellion” has been announced, featuring “content from the movies, Obi-Wan Kenobi, and Andor” - https://twitter.com/swbooks/status/1634091342337908736?.

From https://twitter.com/eleventhirtyate/status/1633939968316911616 with their fun take on the book announcement. I think Pablo Hidalgo tweeted something on that thread or image, but he has probably deleted it since.

Marooned Biker Scout said:

There was also a character named Veitch in the recent episode of Bad Batch, probably a nice nod to Tom?

In 2x12 “The Outpost” episode? Yes, they called one of the clone troopers “Veetch” and then blew him a minute later! I’m not sure if that was a nice nod, or a swipe at Tom Veitch?

It was one of the very best episodes of The Bad Batch, and one of the better pieces of Star Wars overall, so maybe I should give them the benefit of the doubt.

Channel72 said:

NeverarGreat said:

And all this is ignoring the argument for historical preservation and simple decency in preserving the work of those who originally made the films, such as the craftspeople who did the matte paintings and model work that has been simply erased.

Just out of curiosity, do you recall off hand what matte paintings or model work was erased? I thought I was pretty familiar with the Special Edition changes, but I can’t recall off hand any actual models or matte paintings that were erased. I thought the Special Editions mostly just added things, like adding additional frames (e.g. arrival at Mos Eisley) or inserting things into existing frames. I know they removed some frames of Stormtroopers getting shot, which sucks, along with various other tweaks ranging from irrelevant to dramatically harmful, but IIRC most (or all?) of the original matte paintings are still there (like the Death Star hangar bay, Yavin IV temples, etc.)

doubleofive and oojason did some threads on this. From the OT Discussion Index:

• Original Trilogy Film Crew & People Behind The Scenes: Profiles, Info & Links… (2019 thread)

• The Lost Art of Star Wars - article by doubleofive. A gallery of shots where the original work for the theatrical version of the OT… is just gone. Some of it award-winning, some if it using technology they were sometimes inventing to complete, and all of it… film history.

• List of Academy Awards for The Original Trilogy - article by doubleofive. Includes content replaced in the various Special Editions.

• Award winning artist Harrison Ellenshaw gave a presentation at The Academy in 2019 on his matte paintings for the Star Wars Original Trilogy… but had to use footage from the Special Edition versions… where his work had actually been replaced over the years. (He appears at 76 minutes into the ‘Galactic Innovations’ video - though the whole 2+ hour video is well worth a watch.)

 
and for shots and scenes being replaced:

‘Complete Comparison of Special Edition Visual Changes’ thread, by doubleofive

(^ in the 1st post of the above linked thread there is a list of many differing sources which cover the changes made to the films)

I saw Tobar’s post above and had a look doubleofive’s twitter account; where SWVC has a thread on Jon Favreau’s comments:

https://twitter.com/StarWarsVisComp/status/1634198599465684994

In there is this “before/after being asked about the theatrical versions being released” photo:

I just found the photo funny 😃
 

I think Favreau is wrong to narrow fandom like he did in the video. Lucasfilm love to use their old saying of “Star Wars is for everyone”, except when it suits them otherwise. Thousands of people have come here for Despecialized, 4K77/80/83, and earlier OT preservation projects, and probably hundreds of thousands of people on torrents, P2P, usenet and “dodgy” sharing websites over time? And dickheads selling them on ebay, cons and markets?

But that Jon Favreau says his Mandalorian show is for everyone? This is either some good skilled PR, or nicely shifting the conversation back to The Mandalorian in the video. That, or he has a big opinion of his show in comparison to the OT.

If the news is correct and Disney needs the money they could easily bring some in, and also some goodwill from a fractured fandom, by releasing the theatrical OT films on the big screen again. Like they did in 1997 for the Special Editions, for old and new fans alike, and even just film buffs. Then release them on physical media a year or so after for anyone that wants them. And then put them on Disney+ later as an attractive alternative for extra subscribers?

But no. It is just us old guys that would like to see the theatrical versions of the OT again. Isn’t that right, Jon? Ha!

A fun read, thanks dgraham414. It has me pumped for my coming early EU re-read.

https://twitter.com/DarthInternous/status/1633934980559650816 - due out in September
 

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/714036/from-a-certain-point-of-view-return-of-the-jedi-star-wars-by-olivie-blake-saladin-ahmed-charlie-jane-anders-fran-wilde-mary-kenney-mike-chen-and-more/

"On May 25, 1983, Star Wars cemented its legacy as the greatest movie franchise of all time with the release of Return of the Jedi. In honor of the fortieth anniversary, forty storytellers re-create an iconic scene from Return of the Jedi through the eyes of a supporting character, from heroes and villains, to droids and creatures.

From a Certain Point of View features contributions by bestselling authors and trendsetting artists:

• Olivie Blake provides a chilling glimpse into the mind of Emperor Palpatine.
• Saladin Ahmed recounts the tragic history of the rancor trainer.
• Charlie Jane Anders explores the life and times of the Sarlacc.
• Fran Wilde reveals Mon Mothma’s secret mission to save the Rebel Alliance.
• Mary Kenney chronicles Wicket the Ewok’s quest for one quiet day on the forest moon of Endor.
• Anakin Skywalker becomes one with the Force in a gripping tale by Mike Chen"

This book on Return Of The Jedi also caught my eye. From the man who did the OT Filmumentaries and also the author of “Empire Strikes Back - The Unauthorized Timeline” book: https://twitter.com/tesbtimeline/status/1634031488684679168 & www.jeditimeline.com

Jon Favreau was doing a press tour for season 3 of The Mandalorian, and was asked about the original theatrical version of the Original Trilogy:
 

Moovy TV: “I know this is a bit of a ‘hot potato subject’, but don’t you have enough clout at Lucasfilm now to get the original theatrical editions re-released? I want to see Sebastian Shaw’s ghost in high definition!”

Jon Favreau: “Do you think anybody but us, the people who grew up with it, anybody would care? Because I know to younger people, that’s what I figured out, that the younger people have a whole different perception of what Star Wars is, each generation. For the millennials, it’s the Prequels. Zoomers, sometimes it’s The Clone Wars. I’ve seen people come up to Dave Filoni and that’s their entree into it.”

Favreau then brought the conversation back to The Mandalorian.
 

The video of the conversation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffbgwHqbdJ0 (1+ minute long)
 

What a disappointing response from him. I also found it a little narrow minded. That people from different generations do not want to watch releases from a different era? To not want to watch what their parents saw. Or to see what the original films were like? The version that won so many awards and changed special effects in films. Film history preserved?

And why shouldn’t older fans wanting to see that original version in HD or 4K be enough of a reason? Why not have the choice for fans to be able to watch all the different versions? Ugh.