What do you think of the Sequel Trilogy? - a general discussion thread — Page 18

I mean Ewan tries to put genuine pathos into you were my brother Anakin I loved you speech, but Hayden Anakin came off as so unlikable it was very unbelievable dialogue. After what he did to Padme I wanted him to burn.

Everyone was laughing at the I saw the security recording’s part earlier in the movie. Which i don’t think George intended. And people were laughing at Yoda and the red guards and Yoda and the cartoonish fight in the senate with them throwing around those floating pods.

The opera scene was effective and everyone was hushed during or on the edge of their seat when they attacked the Jedi Temple.

And most people thought the lightsaber duel was a nailbiter, not me I thought flashy and twirly. It sort of worked the first time I saw it like the opening space battle but on video the more times I watched the film the worse it got.

As for the sequel as much as I despise the Rise of Palpatine I really like the Han Solo force ghost scene even if makes no sense. I like Rey saying I wanted to hold Ben’s hand not Kylo. I like the part where Ben fights the knights of Ren and teams up with Rey to fight the Emperor. I like the whole embracing being a Skywalker.

The weakest part of the film are the Luke scenes which is funny because the strongest part of the Last Jedi are the Luke scenes. Even with all my complaints. In the Rise of Skywalker I feel like Hamill was phoning it in, and didn’t give the performance Rian was able to get out of him. I’m a big MH fan and I watch a lot of his films and tv appearances and I thought the hair was off as well. They wasted him in ROS, and I feel like Trevorrow would have given him something worthy.

It’s always interesting to me when people compare the Sequels and the Prequels. With a surface level look at the fan response and online discourse they seem similar, but when you dig deeper they really did kind of have opposite problems. I think while both are flawed, which is superior really depends on what you value most out of Star Wars as a whole.

For me, I’ve always seen the problems with the Prequels but never had nearly the problem in engaging with their content as I did the Sequels because I had a much easier time ignoring Prequel flaws like the acting, dialogue, and uncanny visuals than I had ignoring Sequel flaws like the plot, world building, and innovation.

I think that’s why the Sequels feel like a poison pill in a way the Prequels didn’t. I almost always watch fan-edits of the Prequel films instead of the theatrical releases because several do such an impressive job mitigating my problems with them, but I’ve yet to find a Sequel fan-edit that addresses my biggest concerns. Expanded material like novels and video games flesh out and create connective tissue in the Prequels in a way that’s much harder with the Sequels because they are eventually going to have to un-do things in order to re-do them…

The Original Trilogy is undoubtedly the heart and soul of the franchise and I think the Prequels benefit greatly because MOST of what they bring to the table is set up by the OT. So it’s a lot easier to trim out or ignore the extras that don’t work because the core (as established in the OT) is solid and a lot of the world building like new planets and droids and ships and such are still fertile grounds for expanded material to weave in.

But when the Sequels are built on the premise of UNDOING the Originals so they can be done again to diminishing effect, there’s no amount of trimming or ignoring that can remedy them for me because the core feels rotten. And when all the iconic designs and worldbuilding are just slightly altered re-interpretations of what already exists, then I’m left with expanded material that has me wondering why we aren’t just using the existing materials that the OT established.

My primary issues stem from how the galaxy is rebroken into Empire vs Rebellion 2.0 and undoing the accomplishments of the OT characters without a convincing enough hook as to how we got there. Then where it deviates it typically comes across less like an exploration of character or themes and more like a shock-value twist to catch the audience offguard than to bolster the existing narrative. Then the new additions to the universe always feel far too close to something that already exists either in-universe or in our universe (tbh never liked the Dickinsion orphans and Canto Bight as a whole).

I will say I have seen those you’ve mentioned and I think they did well with the material they had but the end product still feels unsatisfying to me. I think VII - Starlight may be the one exception, I loved moving the Starkiller base ignition to the end climax and some of the other tweaks that were made, it really helped break up the similarities to A New Hope… But ultimately that movie still just needs the follow ups to tell the story for the world it establishes so if I’m not going to find myself returning to those, it ends up being set up and mystery for nothing.

oojason said:

As previously stated to both you and Avimo, your repeated attempts at interactions to me have been described by others here as ‘stalkerish’, ‘harassing’, and ‘creepy’… and again… I’m inclined to agree.

Yet you both still continue.

So once again… please stop. Avimo too.
 

And then kindly both go back to wherever it is similar like-minded trolls and GL/PT zealots as you and Avimo usually hang out at - and spare the good members of this community any more of your repeated bad-faith circlejerking shitposts and continuing performative trolling.
 

You’re inventing an issue I think. I think I usually reply to what I see and I frequent only a few threads here, but replying to you when I disagree with what you say in those threads is “stalkerish”, “harassing”, and “creepy”? What else is someone supposed to do when they disagree with that they see? What’s the point of discussing if I’m not to do that?

Calling me a zealot, even though I’ve criticized Lucas as well as his writing, while you refer to me being called a stalker for… disagreeing with you and saying so? What have I done that is an offense to you, that’s spoken against you as a person, that’s stalked you, when I only reply to you in a few threads about a limited amount of things?

Oh what’s the point

JadedSkywalker said:

As for the sequel as much as I despise the Rise of Palpatine I really like the Han Solo force ghost scene even if makes no sense. I like Rey saying I wanted to hold Ben’s hand not Kylo. I like the part where Ben fights the knights of Ren and teams up with Rey to fight the Emperor.

Anything with Kylo for me is an automatic nah in quality to me. I like some moments that he’s in and/or with Kylo, but reylo and anything connected to it and Kylo in connection to that I think blows any character writing issue in the PT out of the water for me.

gobzilla said:

It’s always interesting to me when people compare the Sequels and the Prequels. With a surface level look at the fan response and online discourse they seem similar, but when you dig deeper they really did kind of have opposite problems. I think while both are flawed, which is superior really depends on what you value most out of Star Wars as a whole.

For me, I’ve always seen the problems with the Prequels but never had nearly the problem in engaging with their content as I did the Sequels because I had a much easier time ignoring Prequel flaws like the acting, dialogue, and uncanny visuals than I had ignoring Sequel flaws like the plot, world building, and innovation.

I basically think similarly. And I think a lot of people who watch the movies for the first time in recent years may think similarly. I think there are plenty of flaws in details and performances and dialogue in the PT movies, but I don’t think flawed movies, even movies as flawed as AOTC to me, harm the rest of the overall story or characters for me, beyond what I think is lacking exploration of them for me. And usually when someone tries to rewrite the PT I think it usually winds up stripping story, context and weight from the narrative and character weight of the story.

I have issues with the OT as well. It doesn’t make it not engaging for me.

But the ST I think has little to nothing of value to the overall story or character basis within Star Wars’ universe, and runs counter to that, empty movies that are surface level Star Wars and even when I think they try to play at having something to say, to me, it’s most meaningless overall for me. Oh, what, Rey is a nobody, ooh ahh, so, lots of Jedi weren’t special bloodlines in the PT, Obi whooped Vader and wasn’t, so what’s the point beyond subversion overall? Something something war profiteering, is referencing it all you can really do? Kylo is the big bad now, why should I care?

SparkySywer said:

Oh what’s the point

For clarity, I’m replying to this comment that was edited into the one above:

Hey Jason, remember how you spent years using sock accounts to harass and bully people off this website? I didn’t think I’d go up to bat for Dagenspear but maybe have some perspective and chill out? He clearly just quote replies anyone who says anything negative about the prequels. He’s done it to me, he’s done it to literally everyone. It’s a Star Wars forum, it’s going to happen. Who the hell is saying his actions are stalkerish or creepy to you, specifically?

I thank God for the, at least, attempted defense.

Far below that, thanks.

Jesus is Lord! Love and worship God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit!

gobzilla said:

My primary issues stem from how the galaxy is rebroken into Empire vs Rebellion 2.0 and undoing the accomplishments of the OT characters without a convincing enough hook as to how we got there. Then where it deviates it typically comes across less like an exploration of character or themes and more like a shock-value twist to catch the audience offguard than to bolster the existing narrative. Then the new additions to the universe always feel far too close to something that already exists either in-universe or in our universe (tbh never liked the Dickinsion orphans and Canto Bight as a whole).

Fair enough. I think that Luke’s downfall and story could have been bolstered by some exposition about what happened in between episode VI and VIII. As tough as it is for me, I have to accept the sequel trilogy isn’t about Luke. Its about Rey so that is the focus.

What happened to the Jedi temple and Jedi Knights except for that small flashback. What happened to the New Republic, what about the Empire and Imperial Remnant.

My problem with the sequels is they are requels. You have the resistance the rebellion reborn. You have the first order the new Empire.

You have a guy in a mask who wants to be Vader.

And you have Rey repeating Luke’s journey in places, even taking his story purpose and his surname. I get it Disney wanted to reboot the universe and rebuild it to their liking. And they wanted to use the OT as a basis but give shock suspense deaths for the trio. And they wanted to avoid redoing the prequel.
In a way the sequel is a correction and reaction to the prequel. Maybe they went too far in places. It is worthy of debate certainly.

The prequels are also reacting to the OT and referencing them out of sequence, since the OT was made first and many of the alterations don’t mesh with Lucas earlier ideas. His constant retcons.

Instead of a cohesive 1-9 Saga we have 3 very different trilogues made in 3 separate eras. Only two of them are from the creator and author of Star Wars, the final 3 episodes were created by Disney and their creatives.

For me personally only the OT is fundamental, the prequel at best in the places it does not contradict the OT are supplemental, and the Disney trilogy is Infinities. What Marvel used to call what if?

At best I can enjoy the Last Jedi as a standalone and not a sequel to Return of the Jedi. And I have little love for the prequel trilogy or JJ’s movies. I only remember when I saw each prequel what my thoughts at the time where and grudgingly have admiration for Episode I for trying to do something new and falling flat on its face.

And for me the OT is far from perfect I dislike Leia reveal as Luke’s sister In ROTJ, even if it ended up suiting the expanded universe well it didn’t suit the OT well.

Luke and Leia relationship in the sequel is set up well in the novels at least. You have that small spark of Luke saved the rebellion on the salt planet to save her IN TLJ, but then she lies down for no reason in the next movie and dies.

The original trilogy is so wrapped up in nostalgia, for me at least. Its difficult to judge content against that bar. Having said that, however, I do think that Andor, as a modern example, rekindles the feeling that I had for Star Wars when I was younger. Whenever I start to watch the sequels again, I hope for that Andor type of feeling. The sequels really missed in that respect. I enjoyed TFA when it was released as it felt nostalgic. But ultimately it is a rerun of A New Hope. Personally I liked TLJ when it came out, as it felt like a reboot. But the ROS absolutely ruined the whole thing for me. The disconnects between the films, bringing Palpatine back etc… it felt awful and ruined the other two… I wish they could have thought through the entire trilogy and made them consistent, at least with each other!

Dagenspear said:

oojason said:

As previously stated to both you and Avimo, your repeated attempts at interactions to me have been described by others here as ‘stalkerish’, ‘harassing’, and ‘creepy’… and again… I’m inclined to agree.

Yet you both still continue.

So once again… please stop. Avimo too.
 

And then kindly both go back to wherever it is similar like-minded trolls and GL/PT zealots as you and Avimo usually hang out at - and spare the good members of this community any more of your repeated bad-faith circlejerking shitposts and continuing performative trolling.
 

You’re inventing an issue I think. I think I usually reply to what I see and I frequent only a few threads here, but replying to you when I disagree with what you say in those threads is “stalkerish”, “harassing”, and “creepy”? What else is someone supposed to do when they disagree with that they see? What’s the point of discussing if I’m not to do that?

Calling me a zealot, even though I’ve criticized Lucas as well as his writing, while you refer to me being called a stalker for… disagreeing with you and saying so? What have I done that is an offense to you, that’s spoken against you as a person, that’s stalked you, when I only reply to you in a few threads about a limited amount of things?

In addition to that, I don’t recall it ever being “stated to me” that my interactions were that way. There’s no way to search for specific posts that I know of on this website so I don’t see everything. I had no idea this was a thing until now, and I apologize for coming off that way. If I had seen these alleged replies I would’ve obliged much earlier.

I was so put off by SW episode 8 that I never actually watched ep 9. Did I miss out on anything good - anything at all?

After watching 7 and 8 I thought the re-quels most of all just pissed on the OT and its characters.

BonafidePhoenix said:

I was so put off by SW episode 8 that I never actually watched ep 9. Did I miss out on anything good - anything at all?

After watching 7 and 8 I thought the re-quels most of all just pissed on the OT and its characters.

I’d say no.

7 = good

8 and 9 = can we call those star wars movies?

For some reason I actually liked them better than the prequels…🙈

The only one that has merit to me is the Last Jedi and Rian went places I did not like with Luke Skywalker, but challenged you. JJ gave nothing. He did nothing. Luke as a worthless Maguffin empty mystery box.

Killed Han Solo. Made the worst Star Wars out of the now 3 trilogies. The Rise of Skywalker. They Fly Now, Somehow Palpatine returned. It was also his decision to put Luke on the Island in the first place and to not reunite the trio.

Abrams destroyed Star Wars. And he remade Star Wars 1977 as the Force Awakens. At best I liked the concept of Rey in that movie being a scavenger and coming up from nothing, not being a magic mutant bloodline. But then the last one undid that. Oh she is a dyad, she is the new chosen one and the granddaughter of Sidious. Can’t be Rey Nobody. Can’t be a somebody because of merit and struggle, it has to be midichlorians.

Can we have ordinary heroes or does everyone have to be a demi god. Why not come from a hard background and have some grit. Anakin was a slave. Who had to prove himself despite the magic mutant nonsense.

JadedSkywalker said:

The only one that has merit to me is the Last Jedi and Rian went places I did not like with Luke Skywalker, but challenged you. JJ gave nothing. He did nothing. Luke as a worthless Maguffin empty mystery box.

Killed Han Solo. Made the worst Star Wars out of the now 3 trilogies. The Rise of Skywalker. They Fly Now, Somehow Palpatine returned. It was also his decision to put Luke on the Island in the first place and to not reunite the trio.

Abrams destroyed Star Wars. And he remade Star Wars 1977 as the Force Awakens. At best I liked the concept of Rey in that movie being a scavenger and coming up from nothing, not being a magic mutant bloodline. But then the last one undid that. Oh she is a dyad, she is the new chosen one and the granddaughter of Sidious. Can’t be Rey Nobody. Can’t be a somebody because of merit and struggle, it has to be midichlorians.

Can we have ordinary heroes or does everyone have to be a demi god. Why not come from a hard background and have some grit. Anakin was a slave. Who had to prove himself despite the magic mutant nonsense.

Not reuniting the trio was Abrams’s idea, but Luke being in exile on an island was Lucas’s idea and Luke being a bitter old man who abandoned his friends to die was Arndt’s idea

JadedSkywalker said:

The only one that has merit to me is the Last Jedi and Rian went places I did not like with Luke Skywalker, but challenged you.

How did it challenge really?

At the end of the day, for me, both these trilogies kind of measure up the same. Each trilogy only really has one decent or somewhat competent movie. Revenge of the Sith for the prequels and TLJ for the sequels.

KK is back saying no story treatments George told her it was all up there in her head. Comedy. Pure comedy. Two paragraphs she says. No treatment.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/kathleen-kennedy-on-leaving-lucasfilm-1236717903/

That means free reign to do whatever Disney wanted. George can’t have his cake and it too.

It’s like he removed himself of the responsibility and the fans but wants the love, adulation and accolades. Disney can get the criticism.

Look at the malarkey about the prequel being a lost or misunderstood masterpiece. That happened since Disney bought Lucasfilm, born out of fan discontent.

JadedSkywalker said:

KK is back saying no story treatments George told her it was all up there in her head. Comedy. Pure comedy. Two paragraphs she says. No treatment.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/kathleen-kennedy-on-leaving-lucasfilm-1236717903/

That means free reign to do whatever Disney wanted. George can’t have his cake and it too.

It’s like he removed himself of the responsibly and the fans but wants the love, adulation and accolades. Disney can get the criticism.

Look at the malarkey about the prequel being a lost or misunderstood masterpiece. That happened since Disney bought Lucasfilm born out of fan discontent.

What does this change about the PT? How is whether or not Lucas gave her a treatment relevant to those movies, assuming she’s being honest, which your reaction seems to read to me as if you’re taking it as legit?

Why wouldn’t Disney get the criticism for their own works and not Lucas for stuff he didn’t do?

What’s wrong here about some thinking the PT works?

George said there were treatments. The Star Wars Archives the prequels said treatments. KK’s statement just leaves me confused. Because they can’t be saying the same thing.

Or is she parsing words. That so called couple of paragraphs was used by Michael Arndt to outline a George episode 7?

George shows up to the story meeting and realizes they weren’t using his story. It’s talked about in Iger’s book.

It’s all so confusing. I wish we had that making of book from Rinzler and Vaz.