Episode 2.5 - Clone Wars

It seems to be a commonly expressed opinion that the prequel series story is ‘missing’ a story between Episodes 2 and 3. Obviously TCW bridges this gap, which is why it’s so lauded, but I’m curious what an Episode 2.5 would actually look like if a coherent story were taken from TCW or any other source.

I’ve seen EddieDean’s Refocused edit of TCW, which is really great, but I’m hard-pressed to pick a single storyline that would work well if expanded into a full movie. The completely different style of story-telling between an episodic TV show and a feature-length movie make picking a single storyline a bit unwise, not to mention the oft-mentioned strength of TCW being the development of Anakin over time is completely removed.

Personally I would hope that a storyline in 2.5 would have more of Anakin and Obi-Wan working together. It’s a bit disheartening when you think about how few scenes of Anakin and Obi-Wan working together actually exist in both Episodes 2 and 3. By nature of being a main character, Padme would also need to be a part of the storyline.

Thoughts?

Have AOTC be episode I (reworked a bit so it has elements of TPM). ROTS/episode III stay the same minus the opening rescue of Palpatine. Episode II would then just be the Battle of Coruscant extended to a full movie.
That way, no need to have a ‘2.5’ episode, it is still a trilogy, and we get to have a full movie of Obi/Anakin working together that also works as a full Clone Wars movie.
Don’t know how to have Padmé part of that storyline though. Maybe we get some back and forth between the battle above Coruscant and Padmé doing political stuff on Coruscant. Or just have her be with Anakin and Obi-Wan on the rescue mission and have them work as a trio like Luke-Han-Leia.

I can’t help but feel like the Battle of Coruscant isn’t nearly long enough to sustain a whole movie.

I actually haven’t seen the Tartakovsky mini-series 💀 I suppose I should do that!

Wholeheartedly agree that Tartakovsky’s Clone Wars is the perfect 2.5, it fits with the movies better than Lucas and Filoni’s TCW, too, imo - though I recognize and respect what TCW does in terms of just playing with those characters and putting them in stories that maybe shares something interesting about them, with not that much care for an absolutely linear story to go along neatly with the movies.

But yeah, short answer, Tartakovsky micro-series.

Cyborgan Le Fay said:

I can’t help but feel like the Battle of Coruscant isn’t nearly long enough to sustain a whole movie.

I actually haven’t seen the Tartakovsky mini-series 💀 I suppose I should do that!

Yeah you’re probably right ! Maybe it could work if it wasn’t actually the whole movie ? For exemple Palpatine wouldn’t be kidnapped until the second act. That would leave the first act open to something else (maybe Anakin and Obi-Wan on a mission on a different planet), then the second act is the capture of Palpatine followed by the big space battle, and the third act is aboard the Invisible Hand. Something like that. I haven’t really thought this through, but I like the Battle of Coruscant sequence and I thought it was a cool idea to extend it to a whole movie (and it would kill two birds with one stone: having a full Obi/Anakin movie and a full Clone Wars movie).

Anyway, I’ve seen the Tartakovsky series praised so many times I have to watch it someday ! It appeals to me more than TCW in terms of animation, and also because it’s shorter !

Tobar said:

I think Tartakovsky’s mini-series is the perfect 2.5. It covers the start of the war, Anakin’s knighthood, his struggle with the darkside and leads directly into ROTS.

I agree. I was thinking maybe a scene or two from the other CW could be inserted (even though it’s 3D instead of 2D) showing Bail asking for help (“Years ago you served my father in the Clone Wars”

The first set of five minute shorts were OK, but it was just nonstop action. The longer videos were a vast improvement IMO, as they had more of a Star Wars feel to them.

The reason it’s hard to figure out what to put in some hypothetical Episode 2.5 is because the whole Prequel series was poorly structured and it’s hard to figure out climaxes or cliffhangers to bridge the episodes. Ideally, Phantom Menace shouldn’t exist, and instead some kind of “Intro to Clone Wars” plot line should be Episode 1. Episode 2 should depict one or more critical missions during the Clone Wars, and Episode 3 should be either after the Clone Wars or during the end of the wars.

But there’s usually a rhythm or pattern in a Star Wars trilogy. The first episode ends with a triumph for the good guys. The second episode ends in defeat. And the third episode ends with a final triumph. Since the Prequels have to end in disaster, perhaps the Prequels should mirror/inverse that pattern: so we get a defeat, then triumph, then final defeat/disaster. So that pattern would suggest that Episode 2 would depict a major turning point in the Clone Wars where the (ostensibly) “good guys” get a major victory.

I wonder if it would have made more sense to invert the pattern — the first movie is a defeat (leading to the start of the clone wars?), the second movie is a triumph, and the third movie is a tragedy, for obvious reasons.

The real main issue with The Phantom Menace is that it barely advances the story. You can’t have actual romance between Anakin and Padme because the age gap is too big, and Obi-Wan does nothing for most of the movie while Anakin bonds with a guy that gets killed in the end, thus you don’t get to see their friendship. The Clone Wars also have no development because we just see a precedent that isn’t that important.
The next two movies suffer a lot from having pick up the slack. It’s frustrating to watch CW03 and TCW and see all those interesting (and better) stories that were left out of the movies.
My proposal would be to somewhat merge TPM and AotC into a single Episode 1 while placing the beginning of the war to before the movie starts and explaining it in the title card and through exposition (like the OT did).
Episode 2 would start with the Battle of Coruscant and go on with a plot similar to the cartoons, my picks would be the Mandalore arc from TCW and stuff from CW03 for Anakin.
Episode 3 would be like RotS from the point Anakin turns to the Sith extended into a whole movie, but instead of Order 66 we would see the hunt being something that took more time, and Vader participates in it.

i want a clone wars fanedit that as Anakin with Hayden voice through the entire series

MORC said:

The real main issue with The Phantom Menace is that it barely advances the story. You can’t have actual romance between Anakin and Padme because the age gap is too big, and Obi-Wan does nothing for most of the movie while Anakin bonds with a guy that gets killed in the end, thus you don’t get to see their friendship. The Clone Wars also have no development because we just see a precedent that isn’t that important.
The next two movies suffer a lot from having pick up the slack. It’s frustrating to watch CW03 and TCW and see all those interesting (and better) stories that were left out of the movies.
My proposal would be to somewhat merge TPM and AotC into a single Episode 1 while placing the beginning of the war to before the movie starts and explaining it in the title card and through exposition (like the OT did).
Episode 2 would start with the Battle of Coruscant and go on with a plot similar to the cartoons, my picks would be the Mandalore arc from TCW and stuff from CW03 for Anakin.
Episode 3 would be like RotS from the point Anakin turns to the Sith extended into a whole movie, but instead of Order 66 we would see the hunt being something that took more time, and Vader participates in it.

It’s mainly to set up the status quo so that you can see how things change when the clone wars start. But yeah they don’t need a whole movie to do that.

Vladius said:

It’s mainly to set up the status quo so that you can see how things change when the clone wars start. But yeah they don’t need a whole movie to do that.

I think it shows Anakin’s relationship with his mom and the separation from her, Palpatine becoming chancellor, some relationship dynamic set ups. Maybe the plot could’ve been more eventful, but I do think the main stories and character points have weight.

Vladius said:

It’s mainly to set up the status quo so that you can see how things change when the clone wars start. But yeah they don’t need a whole movie to do that.

I can see what Lucas was trying to do, but I still think it was very misguided.

Dagenspear said:

I think it shows Anakin’s relationship with his mom and the separation from her, Palpatine becoming chancellor, some relationship dynamic set ups. Maybe the plot could’ve been more eventful, but I do think the main stories and character points have weight.

Shmi’s role is one thing I felt was interesting in its exploration, Palpatine’s role is messy, and my point about the relationships is precisely how TPM didn’t do enough where it mattered.

Lucas really didn’t pay attention to what people cared about in the OT. And at the end of the day he definitely was just making the story he desired, for better or worse.

MORC said:

Shmi’s role is one thing I felt was interesting in its exploration, Palpatine’s role is messy, and my point about the relationships is precisely how TPM didn’t do enough where it mattered.

Lucas really didn’t pay attention to what people cared about in the OT. And at the end of the day he definitely was just making the story he desired, for better or worse.

I think Palpatine’s role is kinda specific. I think it the point of the relationships overall, and the character structures. Anakin’s enslavement, Obi being by the book, Padme being heroic if not a little naive.

I question why what people cared about in the OT should contradict the story he wants to tell overall?

Dagenspear said:

I question why what people cared about in the OT should contradict the story he wants to tell overall?

Both in matters of specific lore and character details, and overall tone and structure of the movies.

Yoda wasn’t really Obi Wan’s master in the way people thought, the galaxy was full of Jedi not long ago despite Han acting like they were this long dead order, Anakin wasn’t even Owen’s brother, and Anakin was actually a really lame guy. The movies went from simple (and effective) plots and basic world building to stretched out space politics scenes and convoluted conspiracies, and at least for TPM it went all in with childish humor when the original fans had grown up a lot since then.

I could argue some issues started with RotJ, and I personally like many things about the prequels, but that’s besides the point. Of course it’s impossible to please everyone, but I don’t buy the narrative that it was impossible to make a crowd pleasing prequel trilogy. I could spend the whole day talking about everything wrong with TFA, but people enjoyed it at first and there was a reason behind it.

Tobar said:

I think Tartakovsky’s mini-series is the perfect 2.5. It covers the start of the war, Anakin’s knighthood, his struggle with the darkside and leads directly into ROTS.

You took the words out my mouth.

MORC said:

Both in matters of specific lore and character details, and overall tone and structure of the movies.

Yoda wasn’t really Obi Wan’s master in the way people thought, the galaxy was full of Jedi not long ago despite Han acting like they were this long dead order, Anakin wasn’t even Owen’s brother, and Anakin was actually a really lame guy. The movies went from simple (and effective) plots and basic world building to stretched out space politics scenes and convoluted conspiracies, and at least for TPM it went all in with childish humor when the original fans had grown up a lot since then.

Why is Yoda not being his only mentor in the way people thought a story or character problem? It’s suggested he still had trained Obi, so what’s the issue?

Them being long dead for more than what is given I think makes little sense. I think it makes sense to have Vader turn to the dark side at least around the time he has kids, and Luke and Leia are only nearly out of their teens, being twins. And it was established in ANH that Vader helped the empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi. Owen even says that Obi-Wan died about the same time as Luke’s dad did.

Owen not being Anakin’s biological brother I think makes sense for more than a couple of reasons, such as why Vader is never developed to have any reaction/why it’s never brought up that the empire killed his brother/doesn’t care that they killed his brother, why Vader would never show up to Owen’s ever, giving a reason why hiding Luke with Owen and Beru makes some sense I think.

The lame thing… that seems more like a subjective issue I think.

But why is the conspiracies and politics a problem? Why should the PT play by the same type of structure?

And the fans having grown up, what does that change about whether or not Lucas should do it?

I could argue some issues started with RotJ, and I personally like many things about the prequels, but that’s besides the point. Of course it’s impossible to please everyone, but I don’t buy the narrative that it was impossible to make a crowd pleasing prequel trilogy. I could spend the whole day talking about everything wrong with TFA, but people enjoyed it at first and there was a reason behind it.

I think none of the issues you brought up above makes the prequels not crowd pleasing. I’ve seen plenty of people watch these movies apparently for the first time and like them fine for the most part, have criticisms yes, but not hate them.

I never said it was impossible to make a crowd pleasing PT. I think AOTC is generally entertaining as a movie, in spite of my issues with some moments and romance dialogue, and I’ve seen it suggested that ROTS is a very popular movie.

Another vote for Tartakovsky’s mini-series. Even though I didn’t and don’t like the Prequels much this was a lot of fun, and a perfect bridge for those look at events between AOTC and ROTS.

The way the characters were introduced in this was very enjoyable, each having a solid or memorable introduction, especially the villains. And also Yoda and Mace.