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The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released) — Page 451

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CaptainFaraday said:

Here’s what RogueLeader and I have got for Sith-3PO’s translation of the dagger:

We whisper to a darkened heart
Unveil the way with secret art
For faithful Sith whose hatred swells
Wayfinder, only this blade tells

I think the first line is a perfect opening line, anyone paying attention would immediatley connect it to the whispers Rey heard in the cave. However maybe it could be “we only whisper to a darkened heart” to really drive that point home.

I also think the inscription should say ‘Wayfinder’ somewhere, it not only makes things simpler to follow, but it also would warrant 3PO’s reaction to finding the blade, he knows for sure “it’s the clue Master Luke was looking for”, a clue to find the Wayfinder. Though now it doesn’t say exactly where it is, it shouldn’t be too cryptic.

Lando specifically says that Ochi “was carrying a clue that could lead to a Wayfinder”, so I think the dagger should be tied to the Wayfinder. As long as it doesn’t mention Endor and there’s no thingy that lines up with the DSII wreckage it could still be seen as an old Sith artifact. Both the dagger and the Wayfinders could be ancient, or at least far older than 30 some years. Lando says only two were made, but doesn’t say when, perhaps they’ve been carried down through Sith generations, wich would tie to the rule of two and the fact Vader had one and Sidious the other.

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Started compositing Vader Castle shot for my personnel version today, just tweaking the lighting and mist levels to match the film right, I’ll probably leave a download link somewhere on here when It’s finished if anyone on here still wants it.

WIP: https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/msh6oBBAoHku6nWnYjVdLkownes-kgRKgJNeO2otDWw/https/media.discordapp.net/attachments/501825149469851659/828019953726128138/Screenshot_2021-04-03_at_22.33.48.png

Filmic Crossroads, Daniel L. Isidore

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Cinefy said:

Started compositing Vader Castle shot for my personnel version today, just tweaking the lighting and mist levels to match the film right, I’ll probably leave a download link somewhere on here when It’s finished if anyone on here still wants it.

WIP: https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/msh6oBBAoHku6nWnYjVdLkownes-kgRKgJNeO2otDWw/https/media.discordapp.net/attachments/501825149469851659/828019953726128138/Screenshot_2021-04-03_at_22.33.48.png

Beautiful work dude.

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Damn thats some impressive work there. Excited to see your final product.

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Burbin said:

CaptainFaraday said:

Here’s what RogueLeader and I have got for Sith-3PO’s translation of the dagger:

We whisper to a darkened heart
Unveil the way with secret art
For faithful Sith whose hatred swells
Wayfinder, only this blade tells

I think the first line is a perfect opening line, anyone paying attention would immediatley connect it to the whispers Rey heard in the cave. However maybe it could be “we only whisper to a darkened heart” to really drive that point home.

I also think the inscription should say ‘Wayfinder’ somewhere, it not only makes things simpler to follow, but it also would warrant 3PO’s reaction to finding the blade, he knows for sure “it’s the clue Master Luke was looking for”, a clue to find the Wayfinder. Though now it doesn’t say exactly where it is, it shouldn’t be too cryptic.

Lando specifically says that Ochi “was carrying a clue that could lead to a Wayfinder”, so I think the dagger should be tied to the Wayfinder. As long as it doesn’t mention Endor and there’s no thingy that lines up with the DSII wreckage it could still be seen as an old Sith artifact. Both the dagger and the Wayfinders could be ancient, or at least far older than 30 some years. Lando says only two were made, but doesn’t say when, perhaps they’ve been carried down through Sith generations, wich would tie to the rule of two and the fact Vader had one and Sidious the other.

Well, the Wayfinder is mentioned by name in the final line. Originally, the third line described Kef Bir (“Beneath the depths of misty fells”), but we decided to change it because the dagger is supposed to point the way to the Wayfinder regardless of where it is, so having a description of its current physical location inscribed on the blade would contradict that.

Cinefy said:

Started compositing Vader Castle shot for my personnel version today, just tweaking the lighting and mist levels to match the film right, I’ll probably leave a download link somewhere on here when It’s finished if anyone on here still wants it.

WIP: https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/msh6oBBAoHku6nWnYjVdLkownes-kgRKgJNeO2otDWw/https/media.discordapp.net/attachments/501825149469851659/828019953726128138/Screenshot_2021-04-03_at_22.33.48.png

Looking good so far!

“It’s like rhymetry. They poem.” - Leorge Gucas

TROS Novelisation: The Faraday Edit, TLJ: Stoic Edition, ROTS: The Faraday Nudge, ROTS Ultracut: Order 66, Kenobi: Faraday Cut, Godzilla Vs Megalon, Godzilla Vs Gigan, Godzilla: Final Wars, The Light Rises, Faraday Jr.'s Star Wars

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Cinefy, I’m really loving your work with the Mustafar shot so far, but I’m curious if you designed the organism concept image you shared.

I still think something like this would be best option for Mustafar / Vader’s castle shot, I must just gonna give it a shot when I get the time.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/501825149469851659/795325996211372073/20210103_172116.jpg

I personally prefer the way this concept looks over your newest version. I know it is still a work in progress, but the the branches, the sky, the angle of the castle, it’s really spooky. You may have no done that original concept, though.

I have some more thoughts on the dagger, but I think I might let them digest for a little bit longer.

As far as the puppet show stuff goes, a design has been decided upon for the Luke and AT-AT puppets, materials have been purchased, and I’ve made a list of the actions I’ll have them perform on camera. Just need to put them together, which won’t take long once get the designs on paper. CaptainFaraday came up with the designs, which I loved. That process will get started shortly.

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What he shared looks like a pre-render to me. I’m pretty sure it will look better with the fog and light light levels adjusted. Maybe the sky could even see an upgrade.

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CaptainFaraday said:

Well, the Wayfinder is mentioned by name in the final line. Originally, the third line described Kef Bir (“Beneath the depths of misty fells”), but we decided to change it because the dagger is supposed to point the way to the Wayfinder regardless of where it is, so having a description of its current physical location inscribed on the blade would contradict that.

Oh yeah, I was agreeing with your inclusion of the word ‘Wayfinder’, since others were suggesting it shouldn’t be a part of it.

Here’s my shot at what the inscription could be:

This blade only whispers to a darkened heart
It will guide to the place where the Wayfinder dwells
Reveal your hatred, reveal your might
To those that it chooses, only this blade tells

The phrase “only this blade tells” refers to the whispers in the third person (instead of “only we tell”), so maybe the rest of the inscription should too. For the second line I think the dagger’s new role should be abundantly clear, for both Rey’s new vision guiding her to Endor, and her following the whispers on the DSII wreckage. The third line implies an active roll: you must tap into the dark side to “activate” the dagger, so again, Rey’s descent to the dark would be more clear. And I like the idea of the dagger already “choosing” and “calling out” to Rey from the moment she picks it up, meaning it can sense there’s already enough darkness within her. She’s already been tapping into her dark side since the opening (and the previous movies), and we even see her cast lightning moments after finding the dagger.

I also tried to make it sound a bit more ominous and evil, and it also sounds like a twisted version of TFA, when a different blade whispers to Rey, and Maz tells her to embrace the light, that it would guide her. It might subtly help make that parallel I mentioned earlier more apparent.

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I like that, Burbin. It still reads like a poem, but they are more clearly instructions. Plus, instead of just stating what it does, it is commanding the reader what it must do. And the fact that it doesn’t perfectly rhyme is okay, since this it is a translation after all.

If you don’t mind, I played around a little bit with it for the hell of it:

This blade only whispers to darkened hearts
To show them where the Sith Wayfinder dwells
Reveal your anger, and unleash your hate
To those it chooses, only this blade tells.

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I wanted to suggest three different options for how the dagger could present the knowledge of the Wayfinder’s location to Rey in Kylo’s Chambers, as well as miscellaneous thoughts on how this idea can be clarified even more.

Option A:

A) The initial suggestion: Rey picks up the dagger, hears whispers, and then gets a quick glimpse of the Death Star ruins.
Pro: Quick and simple, without changing the scene drastically.
Con: Might not be clear as to why she is given this vision now, and not back on Pasaana. Held it longer? Now she is really “listening” to it? (Misc. section below could potentially address this)

Option B:

B) Create a brief flashback/vision sequence that mirror’s Kylo flashback/vision Dom made for when he touches Vader’s helmet earlier in the film. Since Rey must invoke her hate to get what she wants from the blade, we could get brief glimpses of who Rey has directed her hatred at the most: Kylo. We see Kylo kill Han, her calling him a monster, a murderous snake, Rey giving Kylo that hateful look after she knocked him down on Starkiller Base, etc. Then, at the end, she gets a glimpse of the Death Star ruins.
Pros: It clarifies what Rey did this time to earn this glimpse of the Wayfinder’s location by using editing language that already exists in Ascendant. Also, being reminded of Rey’s hate might help give more impact to Rey’s overall conflict with the dark side in this film. This hate later drives Rey to almost kill Kylo, fueling her shame. This whole “striking people down with hate” issue gets brought back up later with her killing Palpatine, so this might be a good set up for that, too. Plus, the vision allows us intercut from that one shot of Rey staring at the blade with brief flashes, giving us more time to clarify what is going on.
Cons: Gives Rey another vision sequence, which might come off as a storytelling crutch. Also, we don’t know explicitly if Rey invoked these memories of hate, or if the dagger pulled it out of her, but it may not matter. The extra length to this sequence could be seen as a detriment, and it might not fit the moment anyway.

Option C:

C) Same idea as B, but keep it all strictly through whispers. She picks up the blade, hears whispers, but she also hears her own voice saying, “Monster!”, “Murderous snake!” Then, we hear the whispers say, “Endor… Death Star…”
Pros: Simpler to execute than Option B. Sticks to the established rules of this blade, which is that it whispers to the wielder.
Cons: Might not be clear enough to express that there is a transaction happening between Rey and the dagger. It might be better if the dagger doesn’t really start whispering a lot until after she “activates” it. Also, that single shot might not be long enough to fit the whispers, Rey’s lines, and the blade’s answer, into it. You could possibly have Rey hear her own hateful words/thoughts, then she gets the brief glimpse of the Death Star ruins. This could be the moment the blade “wakes up” and starts whispering to her after that.

Regardless of which option we go with, I think these small changes could also potentially be applied to any of them to help provide a little more clarity to the scene, so I think they are worth thinking about:

Misc:

• In the theatrical, when Rey picks up the dagger, she is looking at Chewie’s bandolier, and then sort of stops and notices that she is hearing voices from the dagger. Instead, we should cut it so Rey picks up the dagger, and she is already looking at the dagger when we cut back to her face. This makes it seem like Rey picked it up because she wanted to hear the whispers, now that she knows she must listen to them to find the Wayfinder.
• Try to extend that shot of Rey staring at the dagger just to give us an extra beat or two to help clarify the scene. This is something Dom has done throughout a few sequences in his edit.
• To help clarify a connection is being made between Rey and the dagger, we could use the sound effect we hear when Kylo touches Vader’s helmet and “connects” with it. This probably would be most useful to Option B, but I think they could be applied to all three versions if we think it could differentiate this moment from the moment she first picked it up on Pasaana.
• To further differentiate this moment from the first time she touches it on Pasaana, maybe she barely gets a hint of whispers on Pasaana, but hears them more clearly on the Destroyer.

And my two cents for those who are interested:

I think a vision sequence in the same style as Dom’s Vader helmet vision could be potentially great, and add to Rey’s conflict throughout the film, so I think Option B is my first choice. I went back and watched Rey and Kylo’s interactions on the Death Star, imagining that we had gotten such a sequence earlier, and I think it would add a lot to the feeling that Rey could potentially fall to the dark side. I think it’s worth playing around with at least.

BUT, at the very least this is how I think the dagger stuff could play out. On Pasaana, Rey hears no (or faint) whispers when she picks up the dagger. When she picks up the dagger in Kylo’s chambers, we hear the Vader helmet connection sound effect (to imply a connection has been made between the dagger and Rey), we hear some of Rey’s hateful thoughts toward Kylo, and then she gets a brief glimpse of the Death Star ruins and hears whispers briefly. Then later on Endor, she remembers the line “only this blade tells”, pulls out the dagger and begins really hearing the whispers.

I know this might be a lot to think about, but I do think it is worth considering, because it would allow us to blend the McGuffin chase with actual character conflict.

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Also, following on from Burbin and RogueLeader’s excellent work, here’s my reworking to maintain the ABAB rhyme scheme and iambic pentameter Burbin’s inscription implied:

It whispers only to a darkened heart
Revealing where the Sith Wayfinder dwells
Embrace your anger, let your hate take part
To those it chooses, only this blade tells.

I like the iambic pentameter, because Shakespeare used it to denote either speeches of key importance and/or members of the nobility speaking, which is definitely how I imagine the Sith would see themselves.

“It’s like rhymetry. They poem.” - Leorge Gucas

TROS Novelisation: The Faraday Edit, TLJ: Stoic Edition, ROTS: The Faraday Nudge, ROTS Ultracut: Order 66, Kenobi: Faraday Cut, Godzilla Vs Megalon, Godzilla Vs Gigan, Godzilla: Final Wars, The Light Rises, Faraday Jr.'s Star Wars

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I took my own stab at the dagger translation:

To darkened hearts, this blade reveals
The source of where Wayfinder dwells.
Submit to darkness, accept thine fate,
The path to open, as this blade tells.

I wanted it to sound more archaic, so I shuffled the sentence sections around a bit. I removed some articles, added “thine,”…just made it a bit more minimalist, a bit more poetic; and a bit less modern.

Also, the meter flows better to me this way. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I also was thinking, it might not be good to say, “You need to HATE to use the Dagger!!” Just because Daisy’s expression when holding the Dagger is more “fearful” than “hateful.” We can’t change that, so let’s not draw attention to it.

Plus, “submit to darkness, accept thine fate” foreshadows what Palpatine starts bloviating about in the finale.


Regarding RL’s three plans, I kind of favor B myself. I could see C working, but I still think we should actually see the physical Death Star ruins in a vision.

  • Film is a visual medium, and I’d like to show rather than tell as much as possible.
  • it makes it clearer to the audience if they can actually see the Death Star ruins. (Maybe whisper “Endorrrrrr…” over the clip?) Besides, wouldn’t it be more exciting to see the Death Star, rather than hear about it? A little teaser, as it were.

No matter which version is picked though, I’d love to see/hear Rey’s Throne Room yell from TLJ. I just think it’s great.

I do think that we should definitely hear whispers on Pasaana in the cave. It’s an effective way of establishing that the Dagger is magical. Plus, I like the thought that it starts small with just a few whispers to “tempt” Rey, and then it builds to the full on vision later on. It shows that she’s connecting with it, rather than just “Wait, where are these whispers coming from? Are they in her mind? What’s happening?”

Also, to help differentiate the Cave scene from the Destroyer scene, I already suggested having her eyes go yellow in the latter just before the vision. But we might also have the dagger glow a little bit? Shows that it’s magical, and that it’s activating. We might need an additional sound effect on top of the whispers to sell the glowing though.

The Rise of Skywalker: Untold - A “Rey Nobody” edit of Ep. IX | Looking for voices and VFX - Please reach out if interested!

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You seem to know your stuff better than me CaptainFaraday, so I’ll take your word and say that’s it!

I think the way I’d look at it is that the dagger would talk to those it chooses for their “darkened heart”, hence why it whispers to Rey on the cave, but you’d have to channel you inner darkness (“Embrace your anger, let your hate take part”) for it to actually guide you to the Wayfinder.

We’re basically reworking what the movie has (Rey reacting to something when she picks up the dagger). So on Pasaana she would pick up the dagger and hear some strange whispers no one else hears, she doesn’t know what it means and neither do we. Then on Kijimi both we and her would be like “oh the blade whispers, and only to those it chooses”, and also “oh the blade reveals the location of the Wayfinder!”. Then on Kylo’s quarters she hears them again, and I agree this time they should be louder when she picks it up, this time she’s trying to listen.

I don’t know which approach will work best here, it must be clear that Rey learned the location of the Wayfinder, so the simpler solution would be to show it: a shot of the Wayfinder floating inside the Death Star, a shot of the wreckage, the sound of waves. I said previously this could be used as an opportunity to expand things further, but I’m afraid the message could get muddled if we move to Kylo or Dark Rey, though I agree it’d be worth playing around with it. Whichever is the case I agree it would be good to have whispers say “Endor” and “Death Star” to further explain how she knows where to go.

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Burbin said:

I think the way I’d look at it is that the dagger would talk to those it chooses for their “darkened heart”, hence why it whispers to Rey on the cave, but you’d have to channel you inner darkness (“Embrace your anger, let your hate take part”) for it to actually guide you to the Wayfinder.

We’re basically reworking what the movie has (Rey reacting to something when she picks up the dagger). So on Pasaana she would pick up the dagger and hear some strange whispers no one else hears, she doesn’t know what it means and neither do we. Then on Kijimi both we and her would be like “oh the blade whispers, and only to those it chooses”, and also “oh the blade reveals the location of the Wayfinder!”. Then on Kylo’s quarters she hears them again, and I agree this time they should be louder when she picks it up, this time she’s trying to listen.

I don’t know which approach will work best here, it must be clear that Rey learned the location of the Wayfinder, so the simpler solution would be to show it: a shot of the Wayfinder floating inside the Death Star, a shot of the wreckage, the sound of waves. I said previously this could be used as an opportunity to expand things further, but I’m afraid the message could get muddled if we move to Kylo or Dark Rey, but I agree it’d be worth playing around with it. Whichever is the case I agree it would be good to have whispers say “Endor” and “Death Star” to further explain how she knows where to go.

I don’t think we should show the Death Star wreckage in a vision; first seeing it for real should remain a big moment of awe, in my opinion. But seeing a flash of the Wayfinder room and waves is a great idea - I was opposed to option B, but (minus the Death Star wreckage) you’ve sold me on it.

Also,

You seem to know your stuff better than me CaptainFaraday, so I’ll take your word and say that’s it!

everyone on this forum is so lovely to me

“It’s like rhymetry. They poem.” - Leorge Gucas

TROS Novelisation: The Faraday Edit, TLJ: Stoic Edition, ROTS: The Faraday Nudge, ROTS Ultracut: Order 66, Kenobi: Faraday Cut, Godzilla Vs Megalon, Godzilla Vs Gigan, Godzilla: Final Wars, The Light Rises, Faraday Jr.'s Star Wars

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RogueLeader said:

Cinefy, I’m really loving your work with the Mustafar shot so far, but I’m curious if you designed the organism concept image you shared.

I personally prefer the way this concept looks over your newest version. I know it is still a work in progress, but the the branches, the sky, the angle of the castle, it’s really spooky. You may have no done that original concept, though.

Yeah I’m still replicating the original concept, my friend and I made it some time ago, so right now It’s just about getting lightning / clouds right.

Filmic Crossroads, Daniel L. Isidore

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Every time Rey touches the dagger, she has a flash of the entire ROTJ Death Star II explosion sequence, complete with Special Edition Praxis ring. /s

I do think a vision of some kind would be better than having the dagger whisper “ENDOR SYSTEM!” really obviously, which strikes me as being painfully on the nose and even worse than having it in Threepio’s translation. Perhaps it should be obscured somehow so it doesn’t give the full reveal of the DS2 ruin. This movie has a bunch of visions already, so while it absolutely is a crutch, it’s not one that’s unique to the fanedit. I think we’d ideally want to convey that the dagger is leading her there via a feeling or whatever, not just outright telling her where to go with words.

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What length do I need to make the Vader’s castle shot?

Filmic Crossroads, Daniel L. Isidore

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Cinefy said:

What length do I need to make the Vader’s castle shot?

Personally, I would aim for whatever length of time it would take for TIES to fly across the screen. Not sure exactly how long that would take, but the current clip might be a good example.

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Looking great so far. Is the plan for this to replace the Rogue One shot? Or extend the “Mustafar Minute” into two?

The Skywalker Saga:
I · II · III · IV · V · VI · VII · VIII · IX
This is the way.

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No idea, I just personally am not a fan of the Rogue One footage being used, currently implementing the First Order Ties. Don’t get a lot of free time.

Filmic Crossroads, Daniel L. Isidore