I really enjoyed it, and hope you do more. Nice editing, work, and end of video music!
I dunno guys, on the one hand sure he has done a lot for cinema, but on the other it proliferates at that false idea of the single genius visionary…
and someone that has suppressed film history too. For no other reason than ego, despite some dubious and now debunked claims.
George Lucas is an ideas man first and foremost who needs people who challenge him creatively so he can polish and refine them, otherwise an unchecked Lucas results in stuff like the Prequel trilogy.
Yes, it would be difficult to disagree with any of that.
Still, good for him in receiving this award and recognition, and I hope he enjoys it and the festival.
some brief promo excerpts from the Andor season 1 steelbook release:
Gilroy & Skarsgård talk the unique nature of Luthen Rael: https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1783898991769293097
Diego Luna talks the making of Andor S1’s Aldhani arc: https://twitter.com/empiremagazine/status/1783149272600285625
B2/Ferrix making of: https://gizmodo.com/andor-4k-blu-ray-bonus-features-exclusive-star-wars-1851420888
20 second promo video for the Andor steelbook: https://twitter.com/starwars/status/1785383623362793564
Andor S1 steelbook menu screen: https://twitter.com/HDMOVIESOURCE/status/1782585770257084492
a 4 minute unboxing video for the Andor S1 steelbook: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbMNw_OqYe4 (at CinemaDeviant)
a 1 minute clip of Tony Gilroy talking about Andor at his Writers Guild of America Award for Career Achievement:
https://twitter.com/WGAEast/status/1779687302102450416
^ Tony Gilroy: “I’ve had a lot of fun over the years, but I don’t know whether I’ve ever done anything as important as these 24 hours of storytelling we’re doing now.”
The pre-1993 VHS and Laserdiscs. There seems to be the least screwing around with the colors.
Mine too. Possibly because they’re also the the tapes I grew up with, so some thick nostalgia goggles for me.
What does everyone here think of the 2019 color grading?
I’ve bought them, but never actually watched them. Aren’t they washed out? I’ve seen a few images where they are used as examples for the loss of image detail and sharpness, but not the color grading itself. Is there a good comparison site or chart for the different color grades?
Maybe also a comparison with 4K77 and Harmy’s Despecialized?
Disney+ show-runners obviously feel free to ignore the post-2014 “canon” books. After abolishing the EU, Disney initially claimed that all new Star Wars media (books, movies, shows, video games, etc.) would fit into one unified, consistent canon. But in practice, Disney behaves as if the old Lucasfilm tiered canon levels (G-canon, C-canon, etc.) still exist. Essentially this means all the books/comics/games are a lower-level canon that is only valid when it doesn’t contradict the higher-level canon of the TV shows and movies.
I mean, officially it’s all canon. But you know it’s not.
Yep:
An Index Thread for The Expanded Universe said:
• Lucasfilm clarifies the future of the EU (a 2014 thread; re the 25th April Lucasfilm announcement about the EU; Legends & Canon)
• The Star Wars Expanded Universe: Past, Present, & Future (2014 official Star Wars ‘Legends/Canon’ announcement video)
“We now have a story department that so that there truly can be one consistent narrative - and that’s always been the dream. I think the idea of aligning the content is really fantastic and exciting opportunity that no other fictional universe could even support. We’re going to be able to bring fans a unified vision in a way that we’ve never done before. And I think it’s a also sacred trust to be invited to be telling stories inside this universe because it’s so precious to people, and I understand because it’s precious to me.” - Lucasfilm VIPs.
Why should people give their time, energy and money for Star Wars material when it will very likely be altered, retconned or written over some time later, and in doing ignoring their own rules they set in place just some 10 years ago? Much of the time it is done somewhat needlessly, and at other times mainly for the memberberries or empty fan service, leaving us to question just why it wad done in the first place (Ventress; without any reason given for her return to life, especially).
Where is the gripping immersion or layered worldbuilding, something that Star Wars was renowned for at one time, in that?
If that is not a big thing for certain fans, then okay. Cool. But why bother with meaningless claims on “one consistent narrative” and “unified vision” when they acknowledge the stories are “so precious to people”. I see on here and other places discussing Star Wars that “head canon” is becoming more prevalent to sidestep the retcons made to canon or even legends (often made by Filoni for his substandard key-jangling material).
No wonder most of the people I know have stopped buying the books, comics, games, and won’t subscribe to Disney+ unless for a short burst to binge actual quality material like Andor.
Back to The Bad Batch:
Only two episodes to go. Spoiler for Episode 13.
I’m not really feeling the ‘Omega in prison’ once more segments. Probably because we’ve seen this a number of times before, even at the start of this very season. The parts with Clones continues to be the strong point. I hope they nail the landing. And that others are also enjoying this season, overall.
I was thinking about Republic Commando last night. What’d I’d give to see a Tony Gilroy-level series on this old lore (before 2008 TCW lore and the inhibitor chips retcon); with the focus on the moral grey and complexities of the Jedi leading a slave Clone Army into war. That it would actually be the stern Mandalorian trainers of the clone commandos who would solely be the ones to plan and provide a future, homes, and community for the clones after the war had ended. What an intriguing, layered and elaborate mosaic that would be. Just wishful fan-think, of course.
That would be something to truly be interested in and see!
And yes, I think you’re onto something with the Dark Theme vs Light Theme. It is easier reading the longer posts or threads on here in the Dark Theme, somehow!
😃
Good to see I’m not the only one. I did need to alter the monitor settings after switching from light to dark (I’ve recently done this on other sites that have the option).
Really enjoyed those videos, thanks. It was so impressive on both the models and computer work they did back then.
Return of the Jedi - Rebel Briefing (3 minute video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TfHqrWejdo
Death Star II Under Construction Model Featurette (3 minute video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yRnfFVZSoA
I hope one day they’ll do a series, film, or even an animated episode covering the building of DSII, maybe even using those original early 80s works into it.
Does anyone have the special edition ROJ soundtrack- just the instruments no background foley or anything?
I’ve got the 2004 Special Edition release around on CD somewhere, I could dig it out and see if it still works?
Or do you mean the 1997 or 2018 releases? (Sorry, I don’t have those)
It may be featured somewhere in here?:
The Star Wars Audio Projects category of An Index Of Projects & Help Thread for Star Wars Preservations
or something about it in An Index of OT•com threads on all things the Audio of the Original Trilogy
More officially released Star Wars lore & material that was later retconned:
Other similar OT•com threads highlighting previously established Star Wars lore and material having been retconned, ignored, written over, and invalidated… or certain aspects and content being cherrypicked and inserted into canon years later.
• George Lucas: Star Wars Creator, Unreliable Narrator & Time Travelling Revisionist…
• Original Trilogy vs The Prequels: inconsistencies, retcons, plot holes and discrepancies… an unfinished ‘50+ issues’ list.
OT•com threads highlighting & discuss plot holes, discrepancies & contradictions etc - between the OT and later GFFA content:-
‘Plot holes, inconsistencies, contradictions, disconnects, mental gymnastics, stretches etc (Original Trilogy vs later Star Wars)’
…section of the An Index & Help Thread for General Star Wars Discussion
• Pre-PT era lore | an OT & EU scrapbook resource | additional info & sources welcome (2024 info thread)
More threads highlighting Star Wars lore & history - before the Prequel films altered it / introduced new lore…
‘The Star Wars Universe: OT & EU - Life & Lore before the Prequels (the PT ushering in George’s ‘nu-SW rules’ and more retcons)’
…category, in An Index Thread for General Star Wars Discussion, may also be of interest for more information and discussion.
• Clone Wars | Lucasfilm’s 2002-2007 EU multimedia project (2020 info post)
• Shadows Of The Empire : Lucasfilm’s mid-to-late 1990’s EU multimedia project (2021 info thread)
• The Force Unleashed | Lucasfilm’s 2007-2010 EU multimedia project (2023 info thread)
• Retcons to the EU; Legends & Canon: The 2008 Clone Wars messes up continuity or how Lucas is still destroying Star Wars
^ Some retcons and alterations in 2008’s The Clone Wars - compared to previously established EU content and onscreen Star Wars history. It also contains links to articles on retcons & alterations made by Dave Filoni projects to other creatives’ work in the GFFA; the EU, Legends, Canon, Prequel Trilogy, 2003 Clone Wars, Rebels, Bad Batch, Mandalorian, Book of Boba Fett, Tales of the Jedi, & Ahsoka.
• Lucasfilm’s claims on canon debunked: The 2008 Clone Wars messes up continuity or how Lucas is still destroying Star Wars
^ An info post chronicling George Lucas’ involvement & contributions with several EU projects (some considered part of his main saga story). This, despite Lucasfilm’s recent baffling attempts trying to downplay or even deny George’s input and contributions in the EU.
• George Lucas & the EU: evidence highlighting GL’s contributions to several EU projects - by xezene, on reddit/StarWarsEU
^ A collection of infographs and posts - with quotes and citations - chronicling George Lucas’ involvement in the Expanded Universe. As well as featuring an impressive array of intriguing and insightful information on the EU in general - by the actual creative talents.
• Lucasfilm clarifies the future of the EU (a 2014 thread; re the 25th April Lucasfilm announcement about the EU; Legends & Canon)
• The Star Wars Expanded Universe: Past, Present, & Future (2014 official Star Wars ‘Legends/Canon’ announcement video)
^ “It feels real when everything is in line. And I think that is the challenge for all of us going forward with Star Wars. How are we responsible with what was? And how do we still move forward even if things become very different? I think the EU will be a legacy that is mined forever.” - Dave Filoni
and also from the official Star Wars announcement video on the ‘EU; Past, Present & Future’, linked above…
“We now have a story department that so that there truly can be one consistent narrative - and that’s always been the dream. I think the idea of aligning the content is really fantastic and exciting opportunity that no other fictional universe could even support. We’re going to be able to bring fans a unified vision in a way that we’ve never done before. And I think it’s a also sacred trust to be invited to be telling stories inside this universe because it’s so precious to people, and I understand because it’s precious to me.” - Lucasfilm VIPs.
Further discussions on canon can be found in the ‘Canon’ section of An Index for General Star Wars Discussion.
Further discussions on ‘EU: Legends & Canon’ can be found in the ‘Literature’ section of An Index for The Expanded Universe.
Thanks to oojason for letting me copy and use his GL Index Post, for help in the layout of this thread, and many of the RC video links.
The longer ‘info threads’ on here appear to be easier to read in ‘dark side’ theme, rather than the ‘light side’. Is that just me? I’m off to play Republic Commando from start to finish, and after that I’ll give the RC books another read through.
Conclusion and Legacy:
The game is one of the few FPS in Star Wars, and has no Jedi or lightsabers or any of the usual familiar Star Wars game characteristics from that era.
A dark, covert, and gritty entry in Star Wars gaming, as opposed to the romanticized and overused Jedi. Personally, I’d like to see more of that. An Andor style FPS, maybe an update or expansion of Star Wars Arcade’s FPS aspects, or even just a non-canceled FPS Star Wars game!
For a game that is circa 20 years old, it still has a place in the heart and memory of many die-hard Star Wars fan, despite being made non-canon, and having its lore & material retconned and written over.
Book-wise:
As said above, it is a pity, and can be highly frustrating, that the series will likely never be finished:
End of one era, start of another… - Karen Traviss announcement on her blog, in August 2009:
“I can’t discuss the canon issues because of the standard non-disclosure agreement that all writers sign. I’m not even going to discuss the ones that are public now, and I know little of the full detail anyway. So please don’t ask me. All I can say is that I was given enough of the detail in January to realise that changes in continuity were such that I wouldn’t be able to carry on as originally planned with the storylines you were expecting to see continued in my books. It would have required a lot more than routine retcon.”
Yet that also strangely gives us fans room our own head-canon, to make up and choose our own ending. Doing that is not for everyone, and I’d rather have Karen Traviss finish the series than not; but meanwhile I choose to believe Sev is alive and out there training up Rebel Commandos, as the possible sequel game development stage ideas had him doing.
Plus, there is some varying fan fiction attempts at writing a finale for Republic Commando.
Lore-wise:
The GFFA has often given us new stories from old concepts brought to the screen. The Bad Batch is a particular show capturing the essence of how a clone commando squad works, basically based on Delta Squad; with Clone Force 99 reflecting familiar traits and quirks like Sev to Crosshair, Tech to Fixer, and Wrecker to Scorch. In other words, you could say it is a blatantly familiar re-telling of a Delta Squad-like unit (or a rip off of the Republic Commando premise).
Dave Filoni was right when he said in 2014 re Canon/Legends: "I think the EU will be a legacy that is mined forever.”
Caston is also correct when she says the original EU creators should be credited, or their work linked to, it is the least Lucasfilm can do when their EU lore & content is being mined and recycled.
Personally, I prefer the old 2002-07 lore; that Clone Wars MMP era, over TCW 2008+ lore shown since. But that’s just me.
Other Appearances:
The Delta Squad were made canon once more with a ‘blink and miss it’ appearance in the 3rd season of 2008’s The Clone Wars animated series, in the episode titled ‘Witches of the Mist’, written by George and Katie Lucas.
Some members of the Delta Squad have also appeared in The Bad Batch animated series. Although they appear as mainly token background characters, and some Republic Commando fans have noted they appear to have pale or supressed characterizations from either the games or books. Some other fans seem content or happy with the call-backs or nod to the past.
Cult Following
The series continues to have a special place in the hearts and minds of fans nearly 20 years after release, with the game warranting a release on modern consoles back in 2021, a whole catalog of fan fic stories based on the Republic Commando series and lore (with Sev living on to fight again, or continuing with new and fresh stories), and even a number of award winning fan films with significant viewing numbers in the millions. This despite being wiped from canon, likely awareness of the story for new or younger fans, and retaining the old lore from the pre-2008 TCW series. A few examples:
SHADOW OF THE REPUBLIC - Star Wars Short Film (4K) : 7 minute fan film by Cinematic Captures (4m views)
As the Clone Wars continue to rage throughout the galaxy, a squad of Republic Commandos are urgently dispatched to extract Senator Wal Bakrom; held hostage on the Core World planet ‘Karameir’.
a couple examples of Republic Commando based fan fiction (there are many other Republic Commando fan fics out there):
Star Wars Republic Commando 2: Rebellion : Fan Story by The Typer, at FanFiction net
Star Wars Republic Commando: Search for the Fallen : Fan Story by Raw Sewage Writer, at FanFiction net
A fair assessment (and a wish for more similar games and content):
“Somebody deserves credit for making a gritty, Jedi-free Star Wars game without any fruity Force powers or lightsabers.”
^ Some 20 years on and this still holds up and resonates. Whether for games, novels & comics, and TV & film in Star Wars.
This overlong thread all came about from reading the following three thought-provoking threads:
Caston’s The Jedi Purge | The Empire hunting down the Jedi Knights | a general discussion (2024 thread)
Kyp_Astaar’s Am I the only one that has a fundamental issue with Clones’ Inhibitor Chips? (2023 thread; 2008 TCW series’ retcon)
skyjedi2005’s The 2008 Clone Wars messes up continuity or how Lucas is still destroying Star Wars (2011 thread)
as well as from some of the research done for my own ‘Pre-Prequel Trilogy era lore in Star Wars’ thread:
Pre-PT era lore | an OT & EU scrapbook resource | additional info & sources welcome
and realizing that there wasn’t a dedicated Republic Commando thread, still having love for the RC game, and both the RC MMP & larger 2002-2007 Clone Wars MMP. Plus that the material & lore from that time should be highlighted on here for discussion? That it may also be of interest to others? (if nothing else than to be another example of official GFFA lore and content being later retconned, re-written and then largely ignored.)
The Merchandise:
Like many other multimedia projects (MMP) in the Galaxy Far Far Away, the Republic Commando project also had merchandise available. From officially licensed t-shirts, apparel, posters & badges, through to figures, busts, toys, music single & soundtrack.
The 2006 Saga Collection 7-figure pack (Delta Squad & Geonosians) release for Republic Commando:
^ more here: www.rebelscum.com/TSCdeltasquad.asp
The 2011 figure pack release for Republic Commando’s Delta Squad:
^ more here: www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Republic-Commando-Exclusive/dp/B005EJAVQ0
The Omega Squad and Mandalorian Trainers figure pack release (a 2007 30th anniversary of Star Wars release):
^ more here: www.rebelscum.com/tacREFomega.asp
In recent years Republic Commando have also seen releases of Black Series figures, Funko Pops, Lego, and more.
‘Republic Commando - Toy Overview’ : 10 minute video from Rebel Scum (2021)
The Strategy Guide:
There was also the 128 page official strategy guide for the game, by Prima Games
‘The Game guide opened with the Prologue from the 2004 novel Republic Commando: Hard Contact, a tie-in to the video game Star Wars: Republic Commando. Told from the perspective of the Republic Commando Theta Squad member Darman, who retells their first and last mission to the planet Geonosis—the squad quickly gets overwhelmed and, save for Darman, they all perish. The prologue is followed by a short “How to use this guide” section, outlining the contents of the guide and the purpose of each section’.
^ more here: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Republic_Commando:_Prima_Official_Game_Guide
The Soundtrack:
The soundtrack can be played at https://archive.org/details/RepublicCommandoOST
^ ‘This album was originally available as a free download on the official Republic Commando website, until the site was taken down. The MP3 files here are identical to the ones that were available on the website, with the exception of the addition of album artwork and lyrics for applicable tracks. Lyrics are in Mando’a and English translations are available. See Wookieepedia for full tracklist and online lyrics.’
more here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Republic_Commando#Soundtrack
The song “Clones”, written and performed by the band Ash for the game, is played when the credits roll - Ash - Clones (Star Wars: Republic Commando) - a 4 minute video at the official Ash YouTube channel.
^ “Clones” was also released as a single (along with an official video linked above), and reached No. 12 in the Irish charts.
The Lore
(from the time: material and content that has since been retconned and may likely be unknown or been forgotten by many)
www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsEU/comments/m2anv3/clone_wars_multimedia_project_timeline
A couple of brief 5 minute overview videos also explain the lore from the Republic Commando / 2002-07 Clone Wars MMP era:
‘Clone Commando’s: Star Wars lore’ : 5 minute video from Lore Guy
‘The Republic’s Elite Clone Commandos Explained’ : 4 minute video from Red5 (at 9 mins into the video)
If you’re looking for something more in-depth, some of these 5 videos linked below should be ok for that:
‘The Complete History of Delta Squad | Manda-LORE’ : 18 minute video from Manda-LORE
‘How the Clone Commandos were FORGED into Absolute BEASTS by FORGOTTEN Mandalorian Trainers’ : 11 minute video from Geetsly’s
‘Why Regular Clones HATED Clone Commandos’ : 10 minute video from Vader’s Fortress 2
‘Every Single Known Commando Squad to Exist in the Clone Wars’ : 20 minute lore video from Geetsly’s
‘The Slave Army of the Republic - The Brutal Life of Clones (Legends)’ : 8 minute video from The Lore Master
Clone Commandos appearances in ‘The Bad Batch’ animated series:
'They Changed the Clone Commandos for the Worse : 1 minute video from Generation Tech
‘This Felt So WRONG’ : 1 minute video from Expanded Shorts
The Republic Commando series can certainly be a polarizing topic, the following ramblings below is just my take:
I really love this was the first book series that really delved into the thoughts and identities of the clones, how they were given a background and culture and had more substance than just being soldiers, something that even TCW struggled with. It’s a real shame that in TCW, the clones lost all of their Mandalorian culture and heritage, and is why I’m a little salty about TCW retconning of the Mandalorians, the Mando mercenaries hired to specifically train the Clone Commandos, and their growing bond and kinship (amongst other issues with TCW). Plus, Traviss touching upon the fraught history of the Mandalorians and Jedi was welcome to read again, given the retcons and alterations to the long established pre-PT era lore for the PT films.
Traviss was invested on developing the Mandalorian culture further, having created the language, and intending to do more series across different times focusing on them. Plus her other contributions, to Legacy of the Force for example, that built up and expanded an entire Mandalorian culture… just to wipe it clean and reduce it down to something along the lines of: “no, Jango & Boba are not really Mandalorians at all, the Mandalorians are mostly neutral pacifists, and the traditional Mandalorians with armor & warrior traditions are an outcast minority thrown off onto a neighboring moon”. It is no wonder many fans took issue with the wiping away of previously established lore, and Traviss herself felt she not continue her series given such lore changes.
TFN & reddit feature many repeated circle-jerk discussions on the topic, often from pro-George/Filoni/TCW fans, on how Karen Traviss is some sort of devil, for ‘hating on the Jedi’, for writing them in a ‘negative light’, or not as the mythical or revered heroes they usually are portrayed in SW content. And she went ‘way over the top’ in her criticisms. While there is some valid constructive criticism of the books, there is also that all-to-familiar ‘George or TPTB can do no wrong; SW must be done this way’ type of group-think prevalent in those discussions. There is also oft-used, out of context, incorrect retort that “Traviss literally said anyone who likes the Jedi are Nazis”, when it is obvious to anyone with basic reading comprehension this was not the case.
A screenshot by oojason of the ‘Is is true you hate the Jedi?’ section, from Traviss’ defunct personal website, via Archive.org:
Such ‘Jedi hate’ claims omits the fact this book series is one of the few in the vast Star Wars universe not to adhere to the usual romanticism and fawning of the Jedi, simply because they are Jedi, or that Star Wars should be told a certain way. It asks the tough questions, the moral stances, previously held beliefs, and isn’t afraid to drill down further. A number of her POV cast are Mandalorians who have a long history with the Jedi, clones trained and adopted by the Mandalorians who dislike and don’t fully trust the Jedi, with civilians and even a number of Jedi losing their faith in the Jedi as the war progresses. They’re literally a cast of outcasts with anti-Jedi stances, so of course the story will lean that way. It was purposely designed to be that way.
The other POV cast is from the clones’ point of view; and the clones are pawns in this era, they don’t matter; to the Sith, they are the tool which will ultimately bring down the Jedi. To the Jedi, they are units for their war, little more than the CIS droids they fight against, and are something the Jedi basically have been forced into using. But no matter how desolate the situation is, clones are still treated ‘less’ than other sentients in the Republic. You can explain to the clones that they’re saving the Galaxy, protecting lives, serving the Republic, and so on. But the bottom line is that they were created for servitude, slavery, and nothing can really change that. So, of course the writing is one sided, as it’s often from the clones or Mandos POV.
An optimal post by the redditor Nidstang on the subject of the ‘Jedi hate argument’ encapsulates far better than I can express:
'I legitimately don’t understand the “Jedi hate” argument. Karen Traviss wrote books from a Mandalorian and clones perspective; Mandalorians having a history of conflict with Jedi; Clones from the perspective of slave soldiers fighting a war they had no say in, with leaders who weren’t ready for it. A huge part of the entire point of the Prequel Trilogy was that the Jedi were blind and had lost their way, fighting a war for politicians that went against the Jedi code, and ultimately lead to their downfall. THAT WAS THE POINT of the entire thing. She just elaborated on it from a boots-on-ground perspective.
Not only that, but the Jedi characters present in her books are all liked, treated as heroes, accepted into the Skirata family, etc. Etain, Bardan Jusik, Scout, Kina Ha (extra for her considering Skirata’s hatred for Kaminoans). Even Arligan Zey, who Traviss spent time portraying as a semi-antagonist towards the clones has a redemption arc in which the Skirata clan accepted him into their home. Her entire series is about overcoming preconceptions, misconceptions, finding good in people where you wouldn’t expect it, and overcoming grudges. And it was gearing up to go into a very pro-Jedi story in the now cancelled Imperial Commando 2, as the Clones and Clan Skirata allied themselves with Calista Ming and Djinn Altis’s Jedi sect.
That’s not “anti-Jedi”, that’s telling a deep narrative with the themes presented by George Lucas himself in the prequel era. And in my opinion the entire Republic Commando series is the very best in Star Wars, second only to the Darth Bane Trilogy (with Order 66 and Imperial Commando being my favorites in the RC series).
Not only that, but Traviss wasn’t the only person to showcase negativity towards the Jedi or point out their hypocrisy when it came to the events of the PT. If Traviss is a “Jedi Hater”, then so are authors like Michael Reaves, Jude Watson, and Tim Siedell. Even Luke’s New Jedi Order could be seen as a staunch criticism of the old Jedi, as it looked completely different, and shed itself of the dogmatism and zealotry in an attempt to distance itself from the mistakes of the past.’
Some other Clone Wars era EU novels from the time also asked the question of if clones are considered as people, treated equally to other sentient humans & aliens in the Republic, but none necessarily addressed the absolute mind-fuck of the Jedi literally leading a slave army. The RC series explore how this feels to the slaves/clones that are largely taught (before inhibitor chips introduced into the new lore via TCW) to be the way they are. So there is heavy handed “propaganda” showcased in them.
The Jedi aren’t the bad guys here, yet they’re not good either. This take on the Jedi was refreshing and I enjoyed it for that. Even if a little overdone in places, I never really minded because it is a perspective on the Jedi that wasn’t explored in detail almost anywhere else prior in this manner. She gave the clones identities and really challenged the sense of morality many of the Jedi supposedly held. The Jedi do preach compassion for all sentient beings, and the very nature of things, the force; yet are leading an enslaved army, manufactured from childhood. They went from peace keepers dealing with tax disputes to being battlefield generals and ordering men to their deaths. That wasn’t something they had trained for, but had chosen to accept. This was one of the first series I encountered that showed the Jedi themselves actually struggling with that idea.
However, if you love the Jedi, don’t like them being portrayed in a negative light, or them being under the microscope being asked the tough, moral, or grey questions, this series may not be for you. For me, it was a fresh angle from a perspective we’d yet to experience in any depth. It challenged conventions and expanded the world while fitting neatly in the broader story. A freedom and willingness to experiment with the themes of Star Wars defined Legends in the early 2000s, leading to some of the most remarkable experiences and stories. Is there room for that among the vast number of Star Wars stories out there? I should hope so, and I’d gladly welcome more. What also stuck with me was there were clones that were heartbroken and enraged that the Jedi they fought alongside for years would betray everything they’d fought and died for by attempting a coup.
Some of the old lore in the Prequel era time that appeared in other material:
(circa 1999-2007; discarded or retconned for 2008’s The Clone Wars animated series and film)
The 501st Journals from the 2005 Battlefront II game; an example of other old Clone lore from the era (pre 2008 TCW series):
From a time when the Clones were growing increasingly disenchanted with the Jedi for some time before Order 66, had already started working in secret behind the Jedis’ backs; even undergoing secret side missions on behalf of Chancellor Palpatine.
This was obviously before the clones’ story was later retconned in 2008’s The Clone Wars film and TV series to include the inhibitor chips. A decision to retcon the clones and perhaps portray them as unwitting victims, to humanize and personalize them for the 2008 film and series, as opposed to the above original storyline and lore, maybe?
The 501st Journals highlighted some of these clone actions against the Jedi, in the then canon 2005 Battlefront II video game:
'The 501st Journal was a compiled record of journal entries written by one or more retired members of the 501st Legion.
The entries summarized their most famous battles, captured the feelings of individual troopers, and traced the 501st from its origins in the Clone Wars to its development as “Vader’s Fist” during the Galactic Civil War.
The journal was kept as secret as the missions undertaken by the 501st; only after the fall of the Galactic Empire were the journals recovered.’
and
‘Temuera Morrison provides the voice for the narrator of every journal entry. In the game’s credits, the character is identified simply as “Retired clone trooper,” implying that he survived all of the battles above mentioned.’
^ from https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/501st_Journal & https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Battlefront_II
Star Wars Battlefront II (Classic) - 501st Journal (Full) HD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWOq1Tg-Jdw - 18 minute video at the StereoLyrics Tracks YouTube channel.
^ This is the journal compiled together by a clone trooper from the 501st Legion in the game Star Wars Battlefront II.
The 501st Journals Told A Very Different Story About Order 66
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZOH-Bw7nAg - 17 minute video at the Generation Tech YouTube channel.
&
Star Wars Battlefront II - Kamino Cutscene Comparison
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0KIgasl-LU - 2 minute video at the DylanRocket YouTube channel.
^ ‘To this day, I can’t understand what motivated our creators to rise up against us. Had they gone mad? Had we failed them in some way? In the end, it really didn’t matter. The Kaminoans had to be stopped and their army of treacherous gene cousins destroyed. The first few kills were the hardest. Afterall, it’s hard not to get a little spooked when the enemy screams with your voice. We shook it off and did our job. Most of the troopers never knew about Kamino. Like a lot of things in the Empire, it never really happened.’
from The Star Wars Expanded Universe Rebellion on Facebook (2017).
Click on the ‘Expand’ button below to see the infographics:
(I’ll list and organize the various reasons and details below soon. Adding some more to the lore from this Prequel Trilogy to pre-2008 TCW era; other books and authors that questioned the Jedi using using a slave Clone army or refusing to fight etc), plus more on The Right Of Denial and such events like at the Almas Academy, the Jedi and clone who had a relationship, had a child. Other clones who married and had offspring in the old lore. Also a little on the Jedi previously refusing to fight for the Republic, in the Mandalorian Wars and Pius Dea Crusades):
Zao
K’Kruhk
Bardan Jusik, later known as Bardan Skirata
Jocasta Nu (refused to fight, but remained serving the Jedi as an Librarian/Archivist)
Rahm Kota
Sian Jeisel
Lanius Qel-Bertuk
Felanil Baaks
Devan For’deschel
Kirlocca
Oden Malksch (to check)
Mill Alibeth
Barriss Offee
Sora Bulq
Every Clone Who Disobeyed Order 66 In Star Wars Canon & Legends - March 2024 article at ScreenRant
If anyone has more examples of the old lore you’d like to include, please post them in the thread below, and I’ll add them in here.
The Novels (and short stories):
A bbrief overview of the novels and short stories:
'The Republic Commando series (based on the video game of the same name) follows a colorful assortment of clones of Jango Fett as they navigate the terrors and triumphs of the Clone Wars. Trained by a Mandalorian soldier named Kal Skirata, these elite squadrons show readers the human side of fighting in the Galactic Army of the Republic.
Karen Traviss creates a complex Mandalorian warrior culture and tackles the themes of family and loyalty through the stories of the Mandos, clones, and their Jedi generals. Strictly speaking, the only media you need to have knowledge of are the Prequels!
These books are essentially an alternative timeline (the original PT-era timeline and lore) to the Clone Wars as opposed to the animated series, with a different set of core characters.
You don’t need to have read any other Star Wars books or have seen any of the Clone Wars animated show. Traviss’s Republic Commando series is beloved by many, and have a cult following of sorts. Traviss parted ways with Lucasfilm over creative differences regarding the direction of the Clone Wars and never finished her series. Between five full-length novels and a few short stories, there’s plenty of high-octane action and complex character development to be enjoyed.
The Republic Commando books get into the down-and-dirty underbelly of the Wars part of Star Wars. It paints the Jedi in a less-than-glorious light and shows how the clones were caught up in a system of oppression and were used by the Republic. It’s complex and layered with levels of character development unlike any other series in Star Wars.’
^ from the YouTini website - for all things Star Wars publications: https://youtini.com/series/republic-commando-series
'As the Clone Wars rage, victory or defeat lies in the hands of elite squads that take on the toughest assignments in the galaxy—stone-cold soldiers who go where no one else would, to do what no one else could….
On a mission to sabotage a nano-virus research facility on a Separatist-held planet, four clone troopers operate under the very noses of their enemies. The commandos are outnumbered and outgunned, deep behind enemy lines with no backup—and working with strangers instead of trusted teammates. Matters don’t improve when Darman, the squad’s demolitions expert, gets cut off from the others during planetfall. Even Darman’s apparent good luck in meeting a Jedi Padawan vanishes once she admits to her woeful inexperience.
For the isolated clone commandos and stranded Jedi, a long, dangerous journey lies ahead, through hostile territory brimming with Trandoshan slavers, Separatists, and suspicious natives. A single misstep could mean discovery … and death. It’s a virtual suicide mission for anyone—anyone except Republic Commandos’.
^ two excerpts from the ‘Republic Commando: Hard Contact’ novel.
‘A group of terrorists has taken a senator hostage on Coruscant, and it’s up to a crack team of clone commandos to defuse the dangerous situation’.
'Following the eruption of the bloody Clone Wars at the battle of Geonosis, both sides remain deadlocked in a stalemate that can be broken only by elite warrior teams like Omega Squad, clone commandos with terrifying combat skills and a lethal arsenal….
For Omega Squad, deployed deep behind enemy lines, it’s the same old special ops grind: sabotage, espionage, ambush, and assassination. But when Omega Squad is rushed to Coruscant, the war’s most dangerous new hotspot, the commandos discover they’re not the only ones penetrating the heart of the enemy.
A surge in Separatist attacks has been traced to a network of Sep terror cells in the Republic’s capital, masterminded by a mole in Command Headquarters. To identify and destroy a Separatist spy and terror network in a city full of civilians will require special talents and skills. Not even the leadership of Jedi generals, along with the assistance of Delta squad and a certain notorious ARC trooper, can even the odds against the Republic Commandos. And while success may not bring victory in the Clone Wars, failure means certain defeat.’
‘Omega Squad is separated, with Atin and Prudii on the planet Olanet, home to a Separatist droid factory. They silently break into the factory to adjust automated settings in construction of battle droids. Prudii substitutes a data wafer and does some additional wire cutting to trick the computer into adding too much carvanium to the durasteel used in creating the droids, making them brittle in combat but appear normal during inspection’’
'As the savage Clone Wars rage unchecked, the Republic’s deadliest warriors face the grim truth that the Separatists aren’t their only enemy—or even their worst.
In the Grand Army’s desperate fight to crush the Separatists, the secret special ops missions of its elite clone warriors have never been more critical…or more dangerous. A growing menace threatens Republic victory, and the members of Omega Squad make a shocking discovery that shakes their loyalty.
As the lines continue to blur between friend and enemy, citizens—from civilians and sergeants to Jedi and generals—find themselves up against a new foe: the doubt in their own hearts and minds. The truth is a fragile, shifting illusion—and only the approaching inferno will reveal both sides in their true colors.’
‘The Clone Wars rage to their bloody climax. Treachery reigns. Treason takes courage. Commandos, Jedi, and the entire Galactic Republic must face the end of life as they know it…and the dreaded dawn of a new empire.’
'The Clone Wars are over, but for those with reason to run from the new Galactic Empire, the battle to survive has only just begun….
The Jedi have been decimated in the Great Purge, and the Republic has fallen. Now the former Republic Commandos – the galaxy’s finest special forces troops, cloned from Jango Fett – find themselves on opposing sides and in very different armor. Some have deserted and fled to Mandalore with the mercenaries, renegade clone troopers, and rogue Jedi who make up Kal Skirata’s ragtag resistance to Imperial occupation. Others – including men from Delta and Omega squads – now serve as Imperial Commandos, a black ops unit within Vader’s own 501st Legion, tasked to hunt down fugitive Jedi and clone deserters.
For Darman, grieving for his Jedi wife and separated from his son, it’s an agonizing test of loyalty. But he’s not the only one who’ll be forced to test the ties of brotherhood. On Mandalore, clone deserters and the planet’s own natives, who have no love for the Jedi, will have their most cherished beliefs challenged. In the savage new galactic order, old feuds may have to be set aside to unite against a far bigger threat, and nobody can take old loyalties for granted.’
'In this followup to “Imperial Commando: 501st” the Clone Wars are over, and the Republic commandos now wear the white armor of the stormtroopers in service to the Galactic Empire. But not all those commandos are loyal to the Emperor, turning the fight against the rebels into a war between clone brothers! The newly-fledged Empire is strengthening its foothold on Mandalore, but Kal Skirata’s clan of clone deserters and fugitive Jedi face a new threat as an older, more insidious enemy emerges from decades in hiding.
The Death Watch is back. The loathed Mandalorian hardliners - the brutal nationalist faction that murdered Jango Fett’s parents - are now on the Imperial payroll, threatening to bring civil war to the Mandalore sector. As Clan Skirata prepares to settle old scores, knowing they may lose the battle, Imperial commandos Darman and Niner arrive on a covert mission that will put them on a collision course with their former brothers.
Their task: to hunt down and kill eccentric Jedi Master Djinn Altis, an unlikely ally of Clan Skirata. But Darman has plans of his own that he hasn’t even revealed to Niner. He’s come looking for his son, Kad. The galaxy is a dangerous place for a kid who’s half-Force user, half clone, and Darman’s set on getting Kad out of the reach of both the Emperor and the last of the Jedi any way he can - even if that means taking on the man he’s always called father.’
A little more on the novels and short stories:
'What other author can claim having created an entire culture and language from scratch, incorporating them into their books with such effectiveness that it becomes second-nature to the readers? No, not J. R. R. Tolkien, we’re talking about Star Wars Legends author Karen Traviss.
Known for her military science fiction such as Halo and Gears of War, she started her Star Wars run with Republic Commando: Hard Contact in the tie-in novel to the video game for the original XBox and PC. From there, she more than doubled the cast of its series, deepened the characters in truly remarkable ways, and established herself as a force to be reckoned with when it came to writing Star Wars.
For the mid-to-late 2000s, Traviss was a staple among Legends authors. She wrote her own 5-book series set during the Clone Wars, featuring a Mandalorian who adopts a squad of Clones as his sons. From there, she was one of three authors selected to collaborate on Legacy of the Force alongside Aaron Allston and Troy Denning — which she used as a golden opportunity to incorporate elements of the Mandalorian culture she had created in Republic Commando and to continue the tales of a few key characters.
In fact, Travis holds the illustrious honor of being one of only a handful of authors whose work has reached number one on the New York Times Bestsellers List, with Legacy of the Force: Revelation (though it was the Mass Market Paperback list)!
Her time in a galaxy far, far away was ultimately cut short as she went out in a blaze of glory.
As George Lucas, Dave Filoni, and crew were developing Mandalore for the (2008) Clone Wars animated series, they chose to go in a different direction. Thus she chose to depart from writing for Star Wars. That being said, we at Youtini think both versions of Mandalorian lore are incredibly strong and equally enjoyable! They overlap and dovetail in key ways, challenging your imagination to tie them together.
Her impact on the Legends universe as well as the fandom of the armor-clad was massive, making her a fan-favorite among many. In this guide you’ll find all five of her Commando books, her Legacy of the Force books, as well as Clone Wars: No Prisoners.
Beyond her books, Traviss wrote a significant amount of short stories, a novella, and a handful of articles for Star Wars Insider. “Boba Fett: A Practical Man” being the most substantial of the lot. Boba Fett made his long-awaited return to Legends after an extended absence, bringing in an army of Mandalorians to repel the Yuuzhan Vong. It is included in the paperback edition of Legacy of the Force: Sacrifice.’
^ from the YouTini website - for all things Star Wars publications: https://youtini.com/collection/karen-traviss
“If we don’t stand up for others, who will be left to stand up for us?”
a useful wookieepedia page for Omega Squad: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Omega_Squad
Omega Squad:
^ image from the exhaustively good Clone Commando Omega Squad Respect Thread thread on ComicVine.
Personally, I think it is a great pity the Republic Commando book series will likely never be finished:
End of one era, start of another… - Karen Traviss announcement on her blog, in August 2009:
“I can’t discuss the canon issues because of the standard non-disclosure agreement that all writers sign. I’m not even going to discuss the ones that are public now, and I know little of the full detail anyway. So please don’t ask me. All I can say is that I was given enough of the detail in January to realise that changes in continuity were such that I wouldn’t be able to carry on as originally planned with the storylines you were expecting to see continued in my books. It would have required a lot more than routine retcon.”
Karen Traviss does go into more detail on various aspects in the ‘FAQ section’ on her own website, including answers to:
• How would you have wrapped up Imperial Commando #2 if you hadn’t pulled out of it?
• Why have you stopped writing Star Wars?
• Are you going to resolve Delta Squad’s story and tell us what happens to Sev?
www.karentraviss.com/information/FAQ/index.html
Or what Karen Traviss outlined here, in the ‘Behind The Scenes’ section, for the canceled Imperial Commando 2 novel:
The Game:
'Star Wars: Republic Commando is a tactical first-person shooter video game developed and published by LucasArts. It was released for the Xbox and Microsoft Windows in March 2005 on Xbox and PC.
The game revolves around Delta Squad, a special ops unit within the Galactic Republic’s Clone Army consisting of four genetically-enhanced clone troopers, referred to as “Clone Commandos.”
Throughout the single-player campaign, players assume the role of the squad’s leader, RC-1138 (“Boss”), and complete various missions during the Clone Wars. Players can also indirectly control the actions of their squadmates RC-1262 (“Scorch”), RC-1140 (“Fixer”), and RC-1207 (“Sev”) by issuing different commands, which allow for certain situations to be approached in multiple ways.
Republic Commando received generally favorable reviews at release, with praise directed at its story, characters, and combat, although some criticized its short length and average multiplayer. Over the years, the game has come to be considered one of the best Star Wars games ever made, along with gaining a cult following.’
^ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Republic_Commando
Delta Squad members:
Temuera Morrison had originally voiced all 4 characters of Delta Squad, although this was later changed when George Lucas wanted the Clones to have more individuality. Despite being close to release, the dialogue was re-recorded with other actors.
Unfortunately, new VP Jim Ward did not back the game, instead focusing the marketing budget and energy behind on Battlefront II (released in October 2005, after the release of Episode III: Revenge Of The Sith), and then canceling the sequel game: Imperial Commando.
Ward would oversee significant reconstruction of LucasArts in his time there, cancelling many other projects and scaling down LucasArts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucasfilm_Games#Restructuring_under_Jim_Ward
The song “Clones”, performed by the band Ash, is played when the credits roll - Ash - Clones (Star Wars: Republic Commando)
Jesse Harlin provided an entire soundtrack for the game, with “Vode An” proving popular track with many fans - Vode An
A 2016 interview on the game & LucasArts at the time of the Republic Commando, with LucasArts developer Brett Douville:
The game also saw a re-release in 2021 for modern consoles: Nintendo Switch, PlayStation 4 & 5, Xbox One, Xbox Series X/S:
‘Star Wars Republic Commando trailer’ : a 2+ minute video from S
REPUBLIC COMMANDO Full Game Walkthrough - No Commentary : 5 hour video from RabidRetrospectGames (2018)
‘Star Wars Republic Commando - Full Gameplay Walkthrough PS4’ : 144 minute video from Bombastic (2021 release)
‘Star Wars - Republic Commando - Extras Compilation’ : 24 minute video from Ray Dorschner
Some overviews or retrospective review videos:
‘The History of Star Wars: Republic Commando’ : 17 minute video from GVmers
‘Star Wars Republic Commando Review’ : 14 minute video from MandaloreGaming (a newbie perspective)
‘Star Wars Republic Commando Retrospective - 16 Years Later’ : 30 minute video from Jwlar
‘Does Republic Commando Still Hold Up?’ : 11 minute video from Flandrew
A sequel was already planned well ahead of production of Republic Commando. Titled ‘Star Wars: Imperial Commando’, the game would have explored the Republic’s transition into the Galactic Empire from Delta Squad’s perspective, but the project only went as far as concept art before being cancelled.
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Imperial_Commando_2
At one stage in development a ‘Star Wars: Rebel Commando’ game was talked about as being a possible sequel in the series. ‘It would have focused on the character of Sev after he was rescued following his capture during the Battle of Kashyyyk and started working for the Rebel Alliance’. Obviously this didn’t happen either.
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Rebel_Commando
‘Why Republic Commando Needs a Sequel’ : 15 minute video from The Act Man
The game sequel; exclusively available on mobile phones, released in August 2005, was an overhead shooter:
Star Wars: Republic Commando - Order 66
Playing this old mobile game: Star Wars Republic Commando - Order 66 : 10 minute video from Aliope
more here: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Republic_Commando:_Order_66_(video_game)
• www.gamespot.com/reviews/star-wars-republic-commando-order-66-review/1900-6132430
• www.ign.com/articles/2005/11/07/star-wars-republic-commando-order-66
Another oft-forgotten and overlooked Prequel era EU multimedia project whose content & lore was later altered & retconned away
'Republic Commando, alternatively titled the Republic Commando series or the Republic Commando novels, was a multimedia project launched around the video game Star Wars: Republic Commando, a first person shooter (FPS), that was released in 2005.
It primarily consisted of a series of novels by Karen Traviss focusing on members of the clone commandos of the Grand Army of the Republic during the Clone Wars.
A second game, entitled Star Wars: Imperial Commando, was originally planned but was cancelled before it reached development. Similarly, Traviss’s planned Imperial Commando series of novels was cancelled after its first entry, Imperial Commando: 501st.’
^ from https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Republic_Commando
The Republic Commando series is primarily set in the Clone Wars era of Star Wars (though the then-lore at the time has elements going through to the Original Trilogy era and beyond). There is also an overlap of sorts in while the Republic Commando series is its own multi-media project, it also forms a part of the larger 2002-2007 Clone Wars multi-media project as well.
There were 5 completed novels, 2 short stories, and 2 video games in the Republic Commando series (links to wookiepedia):
Republic Commando: Hard Contact | novel | October 2004
Star Wars: Republic Commando | game | February 2005
“Omega Squad: Targets” - in Star Wars Insider 81 | short story |March 2005
Republic Commando: Order 66 video game | mobile phone game | August 2005
Republic Commando: Triple Zero | novel | February 2006
“Odds” — Star Wars Insider 87 | short story | April 2006
Republic Commando: True Colors | novel | October 2007
Order 66: A Republic Commando Novel | novel | September 2008
Imperial Commando: 501st | novel | October 2009
Imperial Commando 2 | canceled novel
Star Wars: Imperial Commando | canceled game
as well as a soundtrack and merchandise similarly found in other Star Wars multimedia projects (MMPs) at the time.
A Thread Index:
• Intro (this post)
• The Game
• The Novels
• The Lore (from 2002 to 2007 / the 2008 TCW series retconning and replacing this lore)
• The Merchandise
• Conclusion and Legacy
• Other EU multimedia projects that are no longer canon or were retconned
Cool, but are we going to ever see an animated series like this for OT characters?
Unfortunately, I doubt it. They seem to struggle writing consistently for their own created characters and lore, let alone iconic OT characters.
I’d love to see it one day, of course. Although done by different creatives that have been in charge since 2008, who continue to mine the EU for ideas and stories, even write over other creatives’ 2014+ canon, as well as using empty fan service instead of creating something that has weight, or has something to actually say.
With that, I hope I’m wrong, and this TOTE will be a good watch, do something fresh, maybe even risk taking, though I’m not holding my breath on that.
Now onto cycling again after a few years. I ached in places I didn’t know I could ache for a couple of days, but enjoying it now. Also feeling better and fitter for it. Good dry weather definitely helps!
It’s a book that Disney made “canon” at the time, correct?
Yes, from 2015. Although that hasn’t stopped certain creatives trampling all over the new 2014+ canon for no real reason.
Two episodes this week. I really hope we get back on form with them, as last week’s story was a contrived keyjangling mess to me.
Episode 10+11 Airing Edit: both were pretty good, and looking forward to next week’s episode.
The timeline of the Clone Wars Multimedia Project is far more consistent and works way better if you remove Tartakovsky’s Clone Wars show from it.
Wouldn’t there still be many consistency issues with the rest of the 2002-2007 Clone Wars MMP? And other content from that pre-“2008 TCW” era lore and material (such as the Republic Commando series and video game)?
Sad state of affair for Star Wars gaming. Wasn’t so long ago that it felt they’d overcome these issues, but then they go and fuck it up again and again.
Teaser poster and a release date of June 4:
The Acolyte Teaser Poster, Premiere Date Revealed - https://www.starwars.com/news/the-acolyte-teaser-poster
'The Acolyte is set during the High Republic era and the prime of the Jedi Order. But based on today’s new teaser image, trouble is brewing for the guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy.
In a surprise release, Lucasfilm dropped a haunting teaser poster for the upcoming Disney+ series; it features a lightsaber on the ground — blood spilled just above — and reveals the June 4 premiere date.
It was also announced that tomorrow will see the debut the official teaser trailer for the series. So don your gilded Jedi robes and be sure to come back to StarWars.com.
In The Acolyte, an investigation into a shocking crime spree pits a respected Jedi Master (Lee Jung-jae) against a dangerous warrior from his past (Amandla Stenberg). As more clues emerge, they travel down a dark path where sinister forces reveal all is not what it seems….’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtytYWhg2mc - trailer for The Acolyte from the official Star Wars YouTube channel.
Found my PS1 and many of my old games for it going through the attic at my parents, and it still works too. I thought they’d all been lost a long time ago, but thanks to mislabeled boxes, they’re back!
Halfway through this season and I’ve really enjoyed them all so far.
Good double episode today as well, and find myself actually looking forward for more.
Season 3 spoilers:
Two things that don’t sit right is…
none of the clones not knowing what an “M-Count” is, or what the M stands for? Surely they served alongside the Jedi long enough to have heard about that? Or there would be some reference found in whatever intel or information they had on the Jedi in their profiles? It is only a small thing, but it appears a little contrived, and kind of a stretch.
The use of the Republic Commandos. A pity they are so underdeveloped, and not like the original RCs of the 2004-2009 multimedia project. So far they are retooled to be “a cool nod” to something past, but nothing more, which is such a pity and waste. (Plus unfortunately the RC MMP never got to finish their own story before the 2008 The Clone Wars film & series fucked over the previously established canon, lore, and stories, especially in regards to the Clones.) From someone who still loves the 501st Journals!
I don’t know what source it could be. Maybe the “Journal of Making Of Empire” book by Alan Arnold, or the later “Making Of Empire” book by JW Rinzler?
Both those have a number of quotes from Kershner on Empire, but it could also be something obscure like a Starlog or Insider article?
It’d certainly been cool to hear Kershner’s take, input and contributions to the force in the Empire Strikes Back!
I’ve been to page 19 of this thread, and realised there’s 96 pages, and I have no idea how to find anything on this forum. So please let me know if this belongs elsewhere, or if it’s already been discussed (it surely must have been).
I don’t think the Greedo scene and the Jabba scene filmed for Star Wars but only included together in 1997 were ever actually supposed to appear together. I think it was always intended to be one or the other.
I use the Index threads pinned up in each section on here.
The OT Index thread has a Character category and also a mini index for Han Shoots First / Han vs Greedo
and these have some discussions on Jabba and Greedo:
George Lucas: Star Wars Creator, Unreliable Narrator & Time Travelling Revisionist… - categories 9 & 34?
Complete Comparison of Special Edition Visual Changes
and most threads on the 1997 and 2004 releases probably have some sort of discussion on the scenes, and the Jabba remodel.
There is a search function of sorts; site:originaltrilogy.com jabba or site:originaltrilogy.com greedo
^ from I can’t find the Search function on this site - Is there one? How can I do a search? in General Assistance
It is kind of strange putting the 1997 Jabba scene into the film given it mainly repeats information from the previous Greedo. Even Gary Kurtz mentioned it in an interview on it.
