Ronster

I really don't want to dwell on this and I actually really don't want to say any more than I have already recently but I did get that idea about the x-wing being there instead because we never knew for one where Luke parked it and what happened to it and I was also trying to save that bit of footage if it's heading for the scrap heap.

But I will also add I don't think it matters and I don't think it's something we need to see in the film. But I looked on the internet and other people also wonder about what happened to the x-wing so this would confirm that they confiscated this one, and possibly searched it and tried to retrieve info from it. But there is no way they got anything from it, but it's logical in that sense.

Exactly the reason why I did have the idea because there's no way "Bring my shuttle" and this scene could work unless you either have empty platform or perhaps Luke's x-wing. And also because I really like the way all the cloud city shots look in revisited so I want more.

I had a chuckle about it and I am not 100% serious. That's why I think it's a great DVD Menu scene :) But this is my poor attempt to save this scene.

Just a quick thought on this shot... Instead of the Lambda shuttle there.

How about Luke's x-wing instead. I know that is stretching things a bit far in terms of the film and something we don't need to see in the film but ultimately not sure if this is for the axe or not in revisited but It would make for a nice DVD menu screen of Lukes X-wing parked up there on a landing Pad :)

either way Lukes x-wing on a landing platform DVD Menu I think it would be fantastic.

Nice work, this problem you are trying to solve has always bugged me, so I really hope you get this done. Great job so far

Yeah i got the gist of that... While i was doing this i realised you cannot have it all.

If I had to pinpoint the issue with both the original and the special edition I think R2's arm interface is the lynch pin of the sequence in both films yet neither managed to get something as simple as this out the way all in one shot.

Deploy >>> Light up >>> plug in >>> electricuted

I really think it's that simple a problem.

I spent this morning looking at the audio for Lando's announcement scene.I have found a section where the 2 mixes can co-exist (SE & OUT) but as far as how that will effect the footage is perhaps another matter.

The SE Mix is pitched down a tone exactly or near enough a complete tone compared with the OUT mix.

So this only proves that both mixes can co-exist so far as footage goes that is out of my remit as I am not a skilled video editor. But I do realise that with doing one thing something more or less will be sacrificed.

In this audio clip I sacrificed the extra line "Attention" as this was the cause of the music not matching up. I also pitched it up to match the out mix. But kept from the SE mix "The Empire has taken control of this city" from SE mix scene of the exterior of cloud city.

Like I said this only proves the audio can co-exist not necessarily the footage. and it is only a rough mock up also.

http://www.mediafire.com/listen/un5u8tua1f83sow/lando%27s+announcement+mix.wav#39;s_announcement_mix.wav

It would like to also say I don't expect anything to change but I did want to understand the issue and this was what I came up with if it helps then great if not no problem but I do totally understand the problem.

Talking about the flip shots, that last shot of the storm troopers running out and shooting at Leia is flipped also the shot before she goes out the door.

Their gun holsters are on the other side of their body. I actually think this makes more sense to be un-flipped as they are coming out from where leia was standing previously where the window was. I don't see any damage to unflipping that one but perhaps there is.

I also had a thought today about this whole "look out", "Behind us" SE addition which you won't find on any lists on SE change lists and what not. But If Ady likes this addition as it's in the clip we got treated to. Should that not be C3PO saying those lines instead? I could handle those words then.

@Bingowings I was hoping to see R2 coming from the door as leia runs too, but this is obviously not possible unless the team have an R2 unit. But I think they may get one at some point

Well to me it sounds as if this is the way it is. Nothing I say will make any difference to it and I certainly won't be editing the film myself so I will just have to put up with the way it is now, I have not the audacity [ no pun intended :) ]

But you are right about opening up cloud city is a good thing, and there is nothing wrong with how the shots there were tweaked It's as silverwook said it.

But I have tried to highlight my concerns, about this section not to bash the teams work but to take stock of what the damage is. It's a battle of pro's and con's what has been gained and what has been lost. What were the hurdles and why it is like it is.

I'll hope the audio is still temp and some of what I brought up could be addressed but I have a feeling this is a final set in stone so never mind.

muddyknees2000 said:

.Mac. said:

If I remember right, it was the idea to swap the order of those two SE shots, right? First show the outside shot of hundreds of people THEN show the interior hallway shot of the 3 persons. I would have preferred this order too, definitely. It makes more sense that people would stop and intently listen to his message after hearing more of what he was saying, rather than immediately at the beginning.

 While that does make some amount of sense that was not my specific issue with the scene. The original has R2 plugging in and getting shocked immediately......the SE version now has a very lengthy amount of time between R2 deploying his interface tool (sounds dirty no matter how you say it), and finally plugging in. He literally sits there and does nothing the entire time Lando is making his speech....and they're supposed to be in a wicked hurry. They've also trimmed off a couple of seconds of R2 footage in which we see a very cool pulse of tiny lights on his interface tool.....another detail lost to shoddy SE editing.

Just bugs me and I'd have liked to have seen it restored....I even had someone (might have been JT) edit me up a clip that restored the original timing of everything while keeping the SE additions....and another that reduced the wait time before R2 finally plugs in to about half of what it is in the SE (just to have more than one option).....but the problem isn't a visual one, it's an audio one. The original, unaltered audio doesn't exist in enough separated channels for Ady to do a thing about it......most unfortunately.

 I knew there had to be good reason for it. Such a shame I did not notice the R2 scene either I will check that today just for curiosity. How ironic though that the decent audio does not exist in enough channels but the shoddy one does.

So the mix Ady is using is not from the Gout for the audio edits he did make? like Fett and Leia's lines...

And that mix obviously has not got the audio needed to restore it?

I have never worked with 5:1 or 7:1 audio surround mixes but I am pretty sure that a bass track could be created from using a filter and slinging that audio on that channel and the mid -top end across the stereo channels. Not everything needs surround sound channel sound. the center channel could just be a mono mix of the stereo. assuming it would not cause any phasing issues. Without fully understanding both surround mixes and the actual problem with the other mix and how they are incompatible I can't really offer any help there but I am sure you have done your best with it. But I would be happy to try and help on this if it's what you wanted to do.

I don't mind the special edition views during the announcement that much but I do feel it pulls the viewer out the moment. the large crowd exterior one is ok. I don't like the corridor shot at all.

You can hear the better take from the radio drama here for C3PO's lines that sound muffled in the original soundtrack. If that could be fixed I think it would be some consolidation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&list=PLC83AC944D382CF7F&v=Whlt5gOuu4o#t=397

Hal 9000 said:

Does anyone know if the final version of the Emperor scene has ever been made available yet in HD? I'm planning cobbling together a crude custom SE for personal use and archiving, and view Adywan's version of that scene as the best option. If not, I'll have to wait for the final release. Thanks.

 No... We have an idea of what it will be like but we don't really know of the final on it.

@brash I thought it was final as it said completed. I just put my gout DVD in and I seriously think it works better the whole Lando announcement scene apart from the bad C3P0 audio about over riding the security systems.

I would love to see it taken back to the original version here with no special edition additions whatsoever. The special edition should have fixed the bad audio take and nothing more IMO. Is that possible? Is there any decent footage of Lando on the microphone? In all honesty I am not discounting the teams work everything they have done is brilliant. But I am becoming of the opinion if I had the skill to take that scene back to the original version I would. But I don't know if it could be done.

Would anyone actually miss this scene with the people standing about in cloud city? Is the 35mm scan print in good enough shape for that?

The gout audio also has the quieter alarm which is far less jarring on the fade down. Gout audio also has fade off as C3PO is carted away by Chewbacca for "don't blame me" I said ti before even checking this mix as it felt natural to me.

No anger here either I am only saying what I think so please don't anyone be angry with me..

I have been watching the clip again and there is one more audio mistake from the original.

C3PO again "well don't blame me, I'm not supposed to know a power socket from a computer terminal"

His voice volume stays the same even though he is being carted off by chewie. This really sucks you out of feeling like you are there and obviously shows itself as an overdub audio sample. Could his line be faded out in volume as he is carted away by chewie. In all the other shots it's not an issue but as the camera is static and he is getting much further away from us it really pulls you out the moment.

And of course none of the stuff I have mentioned is the teams fault. On this section of Lando's announcement and the running I felt pulled out of the film on numerous occasions. But like I said it's not a revisited fault. It's the movie  that you are working with that did that.

adywan said:

That has to stay as a flipped shot for continuity. Not all mistakes can be fixed

 Does the other one have too as well?

I broke my star wars embargo to watch the clip and I did really enjoy it.

Cloud city looks great and the duel is also taken up a notch for sure.

Did you think about using the Gout audio for them running through the crowd without the "look out!" "behind us" lines I think that it's better without that addition from the SE but I suppose you like it better with it.

C3PO when he's asking R2 to over ride the computer systems before Lando's announcement.. It sounds much better than it did in this clip but it still sticks out to me as not sounding correct compared to the rest of his lines. Did you try to use the lines from the radio drama although I know it would be tricky with all the music that is going on. But I reckon if it was possible it would improve that little bit more.

Been to work and pondered one more thought. I thought I could hear where you intercut in the carbon freeze chamber between the SE mix and the other theatrical mix you are using. Whilst I did not think it was an issue the SE mix features a louder alarm. Without checking the SE mix I am unsure how long the louder alarm continues for, The oinly thought I had about this difference in the mixes was that perhaps the louder alarm could be used to advantage and when Luke & Vader move away from the area where it is initially heard the other mix could be introduced at this point. But without checking the SE mix I am not sure how long it stays loud for and if this would really make any difference but it was a thought I had of using different mixes for spacial awareness to the source of the alarm sound.

Edit:

Just checked the SE mix and it fades at exactly the same point so that makes me think is there any way to keep that alarm going at the same volume for longer until Luke and Vader move away. or have the quieter alarm throughout I think the other mix has this.

Thanks again for sharing the clip I really did think it was very well done.

metalmunki said:

I remember those DVD menus being such a tease. They even fixed Luke's lightsabre in ANH on the menu version of him training with the remote, and still ignored it in the film itself.

 The sound effect they prepared for the sky train that flys under the landing platform can be heard in the menu but not In the film. I was thinking one would have to be created if that was to be attempted. I have now just watched the cloud city menu and they went to the bother of creating a sound effect for the sky train but either decided not to put it in the film or they forgot.

Needless to say I am really looking forward to cloud city, that pic looks great.

No more from me now. But I am excited still and I am not watching any more star wars until this edit get's released how ever long that will be.

Sorry monroville i do not. it's the 2004 dvd menus for ESB.

I would have taken screen grabs but you can't play the dvd in a pc so it's from the dagobah menu and the snowspeeder flying over the trench is from the hoth menu.

and I got the shot totally wrong it's like an extension of this shot from the film. it pans across with the speeder. but for it to be useable mountains would have to be put in the background and the other menu elements removed.

You will only see the xwing fly by once on the dagobah menu after the title card and not again so you have to hope you get lucky and the dvd selects the dagobah style menu.To me this is the best of the lot.

R2 looking in Yodas hut can be seen again and again but thinking about this some more the Pan around the Hut is a bit jarring. Possibly the original shot of the hut could be used and place R2 around the back of the hut without him getting stuck. and then use the DVD menu footage of him looking in the window. To me the shot looks much better framed and it's got a slight extension to him actually lifting off the ground to peak in the window. I just think that footage of R2 looking in the window from the menu feels better. or slow the rotaion down of the pan around the hut is another way perhaps that it could work better.

Are you intending on padding out the Background sound effects in Empire strikes Back?

That sounds a bit weird I know but I noticed that Empire suffers a bit compared to ANH and ROTJ in that there are many instances where stuff in the Background is mute or has background sound and then in the same location at a later time there is none. I'll rattle a few off so people don't think I am mad.

The Troops running past the falcon "this one goes there that one goes there "
The Comms center "Launch Patrol" does not sound busy enough with background noise
The Comms center evacuation scene where Han goes to get Leia the people in the Bakground are totally muted
The Hangers scene's also don't have enough background noise especially on C3PO seeing R2 off in the x-wing and Leias talk with the troops before the Hoth Battle.
Dagobah has scenes where one minute there is a lot of nature sounds and then it goes dead quiet and only the voice track is present.
The Sky train that fly's under the gantry assuming you keep that in from the SE has no sound as it comes past across the screen. Could be silent but this is star wars.
Laser Blasts from ties chasing stop all together for around a minute before the asteroid hits them. Like they had stopped chasing the falcon.

The forefront Sound effects and voicetrack are great but there are many instances you could go on and on seeing and feeling the gaps in the sound mix.

Now I understand people get upset because this is Ben Burts work but Is there any intention to pad the sound mix and bring it more up to date. That would mean going toe to toe with Ben Burt but trying to compliment what is already there, but by today's film making standards it has many holes that could do with plugging up for immersion sake at least I think so.

Padding = adding sound where there could or should be sound but not affecting the main track that stays as is. Just background stuff to fill the void. make the world more believe able.

Also on top of this there is some good excuses for panning some sounds left to right or right to left in some of those listed above for more immersion.

I put it down to budget constraints with Empire. Special Edition no excuses

One quick one had this idea a while ago but in this shot.

Did you ever think about using the DVD menu version that pans across flying at the AT-AT's I suppose it does not fit there but did you use any elements from the DVD menu animation. for the pan and follow obviously without AT-AT's in the frame. more for the underside of the speeder than anything else.

Actually just checked the DVD and the Shot of R2 outside yodas hut is really much better than the shot of R2 getting stuck on something before the cut to him being by the window miraculously.

Also one more whilst studying the SE DVD Menu's the fly by to Dagobah. I think it looks great heading towards the camera but terrible when looking at the rear of the x-wing. Would there be any way to track the intro to the original footage or use the fly by towards the camera but cut to the shot of the x-wing flying towards Dagobah. could be nice to have that coming from space shot inserted only aesthetic and that makes a symmetry perhaps between leaving Hoth and getting to Dagobah perhaps.

Anyway cool menu stuff

I'd hate to have that seat on the bridge on the central walkway. Bad Health and safety that :) not to mention you would never get any work done.

What all the debate over the window about. I am one to over analize stuff but there is really nothing about it worth thinking about apart from the wider angle at least you get to see more of the cockpit and out the windows too. I think it's a good choice and pretty clever how it's been restored.

@ryan macavoy.

I think when the flashes have a colored circumference this is a deflector shield flash and when they pop and burst this is like the flak effect.

Theres even a huge type of water splash effect flash later on when the falcon loses it's rear deflector shield.

There is quite a lot of difference in the colors on the flashes in this scene and especially when the falcon flees with luke into the sunset between gout and the special edition.

Those 2 instances are the most noteworthy of color loss during the recomposite.

But during hoth there are also instances noteabley luke firing and that flash we have just been looking at and the flashes on the legs of the at-ats from the rebel dish lasers also suffered color loss

wether there is any real rhyme or reason to them yeah does not really matter. the only thing that bugs me is that the vibrancy of the original flashes got washed out.

Just watched the short clip and yep It seems the flashes have got the color back. The Blue ring is totally missing in my 2004 SE DVD in fact I am pretty sure they have been tweaked :) And they look a lot better.

If I am wrong then it looks way better than the DVD anyway. Speeder flaps look real good too.

Did the original colors get added back to the flashes?

I cannot tell from my phone but it looks like it might have been if so top job!

ray_afraid said:

Bingowings said:

What if Padme didn't die in ROTS and is still alive all the way up to ANH where she is destroyed with Alderaan?

 I've been preaching this since walking out of RotS.

 Did you walk out before the end credits?

If not I am disappointed, If I could go back in time I would pay money and walk out as the film starts.

It was all such a mandatory cinema affair that I will never partake in again the Hobbit is a prime example of another mandatory cinema affair and I managed to not go to see it and I am pleased about it.

some good ideas here though.

Would you put the emperor in star wars even if only a brief hint or a glimpse of him? I think he could go in the conference room scene before the millennium falcon comes out of hyperspace in the asteroid remnants of Alderaan.

The holo projector on the table. My thoughts were that the conversation was over and no dialogue should be heard we would only catch a brief glimpse at the start of the scene and him tuning out.

Some really interesting ideas and problems that need to be overcome in this...

But I think it's fun and hope it can work somehow. Looking forward to your next update Darth Lucus

darklordoftech said:

CO said:

At this point, should we start lobbying for the OOT to come out on 4K? 

It will be a very interesting situation if 4K becomes standard and Disney refuses to release the OOT.

Also, what will become of the colors and lightsabers?

 8K will be standard 4k is like HD Ready

Like HD Ready TV sets 4k needs to be adopted by a large number of people to bring the price of components down this will then enable 4k screens to drop in price and the true go to format to be introduced. 8k screens can already be produced for much less more money compared to a to 4k set. Yes it's still more expensive but for less component wise when you think it can handle twice the resolution.

Lucas is calling hypocrite on all editors, and can you blame him after all the backlash he has got.

The problem here is it could be quite difficult for George to see the reasoning behind people changing his film, but the people who are changing his films don't do it out of disrespect.

But he planted the idea with the constant tinkering so this is now the legacy he has spawned.

Try to edit the film in the style of a horror film and not an action pop corn flick.

Now that would be interesting but I doubt it's possible

You just want something, anything to be accepted as a change/"enhancement" by Ady to in some way claim you came up with "that". Whatever it is, from icicles to freaking Yavin?! Come on! lol. The credit list for forum members was closed like 4 years ago if that's what you're after.

It's okay that you came in late in the process to actually contribute when it was a good time to do so, but this is now really getting ridiculous.

Even if it doesn't look like it by all that above, I sincerely appreciate your enthusiasm but it may be best to focus your attention on ROTJ and the PT as this thing is really all but done. Really. :-)

-----

Either way, back on topic. Can't believe we've finally arrived at the final months. Really excited about being able to finally watch and appreciate ESB:R in all its glory. Congrats to Ady of course but also to the great team behind him. Cheers! :-)

 lol I am honestly not trolling, I already looked at Return of the Jedi for quite some time about 2 years ago in the "collaborative" thread so I already have focused on it and I sort of feel that I have seen the wishlist and did a rough structural edit on it too. I am not really interested in PT edits but I will be interested to see what revisited can do with it.

Yeah too late to the party?, I don't care for having any claims for "That was my idea" only to try to help out and come up with ideas. I could not give two hoots about my name being on any credit list either I just love Revisited project.

Sharing an idea for fun that came about because I looked at the monology thread by Darth Lucus and It also made me think about why we see the same probe crash twice. If anything it would be better to show the probe going to another planet entirely unrelated to hoth and then show the crash on hoth only once...But before anyone kills me I will stop there.

I think some people take things a bit too seriously sometimes here, I think fan edits should be fun and exciting ways of changing the films so they are different and new or when you have different versions finding what is best in what versions.  Ady has made the right choices I am sure, I have zero concern about it being bad to say the least.

It will come out this year hopefully but the team need encouragement to reach the finish line.

Darth Lucas said:

I have run into another problem and I'm not sure how I'm going to get around it.  The whole bit with Luke and the wampa is completely gone.  We now jump straight from arriving at the base almost directly into the battle of Hoth.  This poses a problem that I feel really dumb having not foreseen.  Luke not being attacked by the wampa means that we lose the scene where Ben's spirit tells him to go to the Dagobah system.  I cannot for the life of me think of another place to put this scene that would make any sort of sense.  Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.  Thank you.

 I thought a bit about this, this morning and I think there could be a way to salvage Ben telling Luke via his ghost visually.

After they have landed and you have any exposition out the way that you want to do there will be a cut to the empire to catch up with developments there.

You could then leap back to the start of empire strikes back and show Han and Luke out on Taun Tauns but not  show any probe droid shots show Luke being attacked but not dragged away.

Cut to normal people asking where Luke is

Cut Back to Luke lying in the snow removing the Wampa cave only with ben talking to him

Han still resues him.

Remove probe droid that Han and Chewie destroy or alternatively leave this in. As it's entirely plausible that a probe was lanched before attack. But Luke was checking a meterite at the begining. So you could introduce the probe at a later point if you wanted to.

I hope this might help you out... I think it would be a bit weird not having this scene just trying to find a way to keep it somehow. As this is the first time we will hear from him since he has just died.