Ronster

whoops

Mithrandir said:

 

I think that's a scene that could work and needs to be in. Though the "difference" (in order not-to give the "overused" feeling) should be in the music. We have to find some piece of score that is dark, but not dramatic nor menacing.

In ESB is like "look, he's cold as shit, he just kills everyone who doesn't deliver properly" + menacing music. It's just about showing how badass Vader is.

ROTJ, which by definition is more focused on Vader's persona, and by this it could comprehend "why" he's so badass, could be either:

a) He chokes jerjerrod with rage, because he feels between the hammer and the anvil, so we should use some "rage, hurried music". (ROTS coral music, when grievous lands in Utapau comes to mind).

b) He kills with disdain. More in "who's this shit to interpose betwee the emperor and me?"... like Yoda does to the Royal Guard in ROTS too.

Either A or B, I think that ROTJ scenes where Vader is really hard-edge Vader don't abound and we should use it, albeit making some detail (since it's a not very trascendental scene, music is a "detail" and not a really important component of the scene) different.

 

I could read your scripts for this couple of mounths, I have some time until april.

 

Greetings!

 

yes this....

what do you think of this for basic structure

New Bothan Escape Opening

Dagobah - Yoda Dies

Luke flies to Tatooine - goes through Beggars Canyon need a new cgi transition anyway so thought I would suggest beggars canyon as a fly through.

Corusant Riots (possibly later)

Meets Ben in His house / hut

Vader goes to DSII Deleted Scene talks to luke / lightsabre construction

Jabbas Palace

Lapti-nek Redone

Sail Barge and escape

**** This is where the problems start ****

Lukes Hand and where does Luke go if not to Dagobah? Promise to an Old Friend?

Just had an Idea that if Luke goes back to Dagobah to the Cave? but there is nothing there? He failed the test before... Is it to do with Fear? if he fears nothing then nothing is there..... Trying to make this structure you proposed work somehow....it is mysterious the cave anyway perhaps do not need to show anything apart from the fact he goes back to the cave leave it up to the viewer once again the abstract meaning of it.

thats the best I can do with the current propesed structure so far. So a decision needs to be made on wether or not you want to keep Dagobah >>> Tattooine or keep it as the films original.

ROTJ Bit Broken

Hate Max Rebo...Lapti Nek anyday using elements of the SE / original footage

go for it on the script i'm game to chip in some ideas....

I have just been reading about the whole incorporation of the Corusant Plotline in the other thread and I hate to say it not being a fan of the PT that much but this is really the only way to make an edit of ROTJ shine out and make it work as a climax to the Saga... It's just a matter of how you do it.... I would have the Emperor visit the Death Star II but have the final duel on corusant... Luke would simply have to look at a Video Screen when being shown his friends demise. Luke carrying Vader would need a composite and so would Vaders Death (all of this would come after the destruction of DSII) but we would still need to see him leave to cremate him back on Endor. To set it up it needs a Transition from Endor to Corusant via shuttle. I will look into it later anyway. to figure out resources.

The big problem is the corusant riots IMO

I don't see the need to reclaim the Jedi Temple though...At this momment is unnecessary

Ewoks hmmmm.... Chop alot back where possible... Or CGI a nastier sharped tooth side to them. Cute on the outside but like vampires they can turn nasty might make them more of a force to be reckoned with. and a bit scary somehow. Can somone mock up an image of the scariest ewok pls. lol that is the whole problem they never snarl or growl. give em some nashers, wicket is set-up to show how they can turn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3o_Ax6MIkU&feature=related

Costunmes I can live with.

Bobba fett agreed it will proably require using some footage from ROTS and coluring Jango in to match Bobba and re-use some of that but ultimatly have him bite the bullet on Tatooine via sarlac pit and han but just change the squence of events.

Change the story and make it better... worth a try and like you said do as little as possible but make it feasible.

Mithrandir said:

Wandering... Is it too nuts if ObiWan communicated with Vader at some point?

Vader's return could have deeper reasons than Luke. I think that the feel of being "conned" by the Emperor could be one of them.

Though this could add some "market" sense to Vader (and therefore, the story) , in terms of : 

EPIII: "I wanna be inmortal, the Emperor knows how, so Ill be a Sith"

EVI:" Remember that I wanted to be inmortal? Well, ObiWan figured out how, so Ill be a Jedi again. "

 

However, if we manage to keep that feeling off, I think that Anakin's past striking on Vader could emerge as an intreresting plot-line. We could use meditation chamber footage or standing on brdige footage to make it, I don't know.

Regarding what's been said about Vader being a strong character, my pov is that "strong" in terms of violence cames out when one is weak minded and conflicted. So I think that until the very end, Vader must come more closed to himself, less speaking and more violent. 

That's the natural reaction of a beast when he's in fear or pain; they can be quiet for hours not making a sound, but when you touch them, they attack you.

 

Greetings!

Yes it is a good Idea, Obi-Wan new though in a new hope Vader was after all the Chosen one.... The only line you possibly would need is repeating "you can't win Darth..." For Vader to Hear Obi-wan say these words might make him realise the full meaning only now.And realise Obi-Wan was etherial

The teacher serves his final lesson

no need for the "Strike me down now..." no need to even see Obi-wan

When?... Possibly before the Emporers Arrival at Death star II

would that help your idea?

or in a flash back style start with the aforementioned Line and then

Emporer "He could be a great asset to us"

Luke "I'll never Join You!"

"you were the Chosen One!"

like voices in Vaders Head I'm probably overdoing it there i think....but the 1st idea might work well...

timdiggerm said:

Ronster said:

flip em all to make it look more authentic.

I'll always try to find an easier way before the suggestion new shots entrly btw

I'm sorry, but no. Flipping them doesn't look more authentic. For things like the Tantive Escape Pod, it will still be plenty easy to recognize.

No I mean just the camera shots..It would require designing a CGI / Model Escape Pod for A Bothan Frigate and a Bothan Frrigate entire and replace or modify existing escape pod / probe droid shots. if you catch my drift... 

Like I mean use the actor from a new hope pointing the gun at a cgi Bothan Frigate escape pod... and blow it up too for good effect.

It's a twist on the original like I said but modified to try to suit the needs of a new opening all be it a bit quirky...It's only suggestions and a lot eassier than from scratch because you will maintain the visual syle as opposed to all New CGI.. You want to keep it looking like the Original trilogy but modified. you do not want it to look like PT.

So I guess the plans would be stolen from Kamino? By Bothans who Crash back down onto Kamino's Oceans but escape with the plans eventually... Need some help here is this feasible or not i don't have good EU star wars History.

Even though they produced the storm troopers they also produced Anti Storm troopers? so they are a bit unstable politically so might this work? And make life easy an Escape Pod Crash Into a Stormy Ocean..... End of Intro - onto Dagobah "many Bothans Died" later on and we know because it resembles a new hope but twisted.

that's the problem no main characters but would serve meerly as classic star wars opening with a twist then transition to dagobah... Nothing explained, but would show the desperation in the fight against the empires tyranny.

The escape pod shot would be part the Tantive being captured and a modified version of the probe droids release from ESB opening.... flip em all to make it look more authentic. whilst using a shaking command deck shot, aboard the star destroyer with alarms along with the guy that does not shoot the escape pod from a new hope shooting a pod with CGI.

I'll always try to find an easier way before the suggestion new shots entrly btw

Oh and the escape pod should splash down into an ocean which would also help explain why they got away without having to say anything more about it.

it makes for an easy transition too. and easy to find footage for whilst not having to be descript.

kamino perhaps?

I don't mind if you do not like my ideas so here is another for you!

It is a good idea to have the bothans stealing the plans as a new opening , so if you were to use a flipshot of the opening scene of episode IV replace the tantive with a Bothan frigate and change the planet surface to another?, could be a good place to start, and start ROTJ in a simlar fashion to A new hope.

You would need to show a command bridge with a Bothan putting the frigate into self destruct. so a Bothan Hand would be needed to push a button say.

show escape pods departing for the planets surface. but straight after have the Bothan Frigate self destruct before the star destroyers loading bay doors pull the frigate in for boarding.

This also makes their escape possible and show the star destroyer badly damaged as a result of an almost terror bombing tactic.

say 8 pods depart and the damaged Star destroyer mangers to take out 6 of them

Would it need explainong though?

It sounds like you have most of the ideas you need to get started with this and the structure you are suggesting is definatley the way to go dagobah before tatooine and cut back on the endor battle whist expanding the space battle.

Not killing Bobba Fett is an interesting idea also only just read this one and for him to carry out a later sub plot is even more intriging.

I would like to ask that the music that plays at the end of this edit should be across the stars and not the main star wars fanfare...as I think this would work better, during / after seeing luke cremating his father and make it alot more dramatic and give it more heart whilst tieing it to anakins past.

I do not like the prequel trilogy all that much but this particular piece of music was just amazing

thanks for reading anyway and good luck with this. If you don't mind I might chip in some ideas but I am not talented enough to do all the Art/ video work but i do get good inspration from time to time.

Hi all who frequent these Forums,

Making sense of Hoth - Strucural Edit

http://www.mediafire.com/?2me1k7repc0e1mx

I have been trying to work out another way to structure  the Hoth battle In my head for the last few Months, my main ambition was to show Vader coming down to the planet and snow troopers doing a ground assault. Now this is an extremely crude / rough cut think of it more as structure than what I would hope to see. Unfortunatly you will need to use your imagination in this as any scene without a Hoth Backdrop or Matte you will need to imagine it is composited there lol :)

Any footage used from the original Trilogys consider the main object on screen / Character composited on Hoth and a good shot to use perhaps(Bar Obi-wan).

I used some footage from Imps chapter 2 just to get the feel of when the ground assault should happen and certainly do not propose using this footage but you would have to film people dressed as snow troopers to accomplish a true assault with planned shots.

I used a couple of peoples cgi footage namley Alanfae for the gun shots you posted just to improve the feel and starchoob for a downed AT-AT because I think they are good ideas so complete credit to other talented people I do not do CGI obviously, but hope I would inspire people who do CGI to perhaps play with this idea. Hope you don't mind me using your work / rough cuts but I agree with your ideas that is all and I hope you do not slag me off for doing so.

If you think the idea I had is crap / good then just say so, but this is along the structure lines of what I want to see for a Hoth Battle someday and try to make the battle a bit more logical in a way I hope whilst bringing Vader into the battle somewhat by killing a rebel will give the impression that he would want to kill Han / Leia at this point and not capture as we learn later to ultimatly get to luke before any intervention later by the emporer.

It would be alot of work though to do this properly... But not impossible there is a way and probably somone may have a better idea than me after seeing this.... That is the main purpose or you may feel it is pointless.

Try not to Laugh too much :)

Change list

1.Chewbaccas stolen AT-ST footage from ROTJ inserted for assaults on trenches. needs composite to Hoth

2.Rebels destroy that AT-ST again from ROTJ but Flipped needs composite but works well as an exchange as the dish gets targeted and destroyed by AT-AT's immediatly after the AT-ST is Destroyed.

3.Alanfae idea of guns fire back footage used because it needs it.

4.Star Choobs Downed AT-AT FX because It works well to show the shield is down on the AT-AT.

5.Opening Shots from  ROTJ Flipped lambda shuttle approach to echo base on hoth also needing composite to Hoth

6.Lukes Crashed paused at last frame but would also benefit from slowed reversed video of first few frames before grabbing the saftey harness in the next exterior shot to make more "real".

7.IMPS Footage to help attempt to show ground assault by Snow troopers. Difficulty with the AT-ATs as no distinguishing marks on them as this would be happening in a seperate place not above luke as it looks here. Completly new Snowtrooper footage at this point. I know this is a little bit jumbled but i was only considering it as a marker. Stormtroopers don't always miss!!

8.Retreat from the trenches footage moved to this point.. This would mean new Rebel footage retreating on the open ice fields and / or snowspeeder later and not trenches...

9.ESB SE 2004 Footage of Vader Debarking Lambda shuttle flipped needing composite and rebel lasers incoming.

10.Vader kills a rebel (Flipped shot of final blow to Obi-wan) replace Obi-Wan with a rebel to slay perhaps he could even bounce a laser bolt away from him.Needing Composite.

Vader is now in the battle Empire Victory is off screen from radio transmission "Imperial Troops have entered the base." This gives continuity to the scene where Vader Actually enters the base later on. we also know that he fought to get there and was a key part of the Empires Victory.

RE Bespin escape

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61vjrvcTCRU

at 0.52 you have added a spark type thing to the storm trooper that gets hit and in the original no effects were inserted at all so your obviously aware of the neglect in the original.

I found some footage of pyrotechnics you could perhaps use that does seem roughly equivqlent to what was used probably on set when filming or alternativley you could hire a pyrotechnic detonator and buy the actual pyrotechnics for not that much money and green screen the actual pyrotechnic detonating. Find a stage Lighting Hire company for this.

anyway the clip that might work 720p white air bursts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rP56CIsBTA

I like the 3rd one personally, but this is the sort of effect needed at 0.52 in your clip I think to keep it the same as the other storm troopers getting hit by lasers. Hope this helps....

doubleofive said:

 

Captain Antilles said:

Ady, would I be correct in assuming that the audio in the Christmas clip is just temp audio?

Yes.

 

That would explain it perhaps. It needs to be alot louder being that close to the POV.

the lower frequencies of the sound should be increased at that close range also... if it still does not sound right then use a different sample alltogether. .

ImperialFighter said:

Some interesting ideas in your post there, but just to confirm a couple of things, in case you're unaware - adywan has already decided to remove the solitary AT-ST altogether for his version, as it isn't seen before or afterwards in the footage (although someone had the notion to 'blow it up' in the second shot it's seen in, which I quite liked, lol...)

...and he's also decided he'd rather remove the SE additional shots of Vader's shuttle flying towards the Executor (which I kinda like - apart from the wrong 'Executor' colouring - as they only appear before the brunt of the Falcon/TIE chase and don't really interfere with the pacing of it this point)...and is also removing the SE shots of Vader's shuttle landing in the 'Executor' bay, along with Vader disembarking afterwards (which are shots I despise, as those absolutely *do* destroy the overall pacing of the chase/score at this point), and Vader will simply be heard to say "Bring my shuttle!" once again.

While I quite liked the initial brief extra sfx of the shuttle/'Executor' (and music cue) in the SE, I personally never had a problem with originally just seeing Vader aboard the 'Executor' later on without them...and I personally never had a problem with not seeing how Vader got down to the 'Rebel Base' on Hoth either, to be honest...

...however, you've inspired me Ronster! - You've made me realise there *is* a potential, simpler way to show how Vader got down to the planet, which wouldn't really affect the pacing too much I reckon...but it would come earlier than what you've described in your post.  So just for speculation's sake, I'll post the screenshots/details over the next couple of days for you when I find time. :)

Thanks for your reply Imperial Fighter.

I did not know about the exclusion of the AT-ST, and it was actually the reason I mentioned that it would help continuity to see it again, and would by it's design be more at the front line with the AT-AT sitting further back on the battle field. If it's not in then it's not in and can see why that decision was made as it probably helps continuity more to get rid of it all together.

I think the transition to the executor is a mess in the Special Edition and my thoughts on it are use "bring my Shuttle" and only use the shot of the lamda shuttle departing bespin and flying towards the executor probably inserted just after Luke drops onto the falcon. But if it is all going to be cut then so be it, I think it does help keep continuity though, and thats my take on it.

I am glad my posted Ideas inspired you... I would love to see any mock up image / video you could throw together to see if there *is* a way it can be done to bring Vader down to Hoth. Especially the omitted SE Docking bay scene with Vader walking down the ramp on a replaced hoth background / Shield generator in ruins. I would be Forever grateful :) and worth it just for fun!

As you can probably tell, my ideas do not want to ruin the pace but try to be crafty with it, without trying to do any new shots at all only to add subtle elements but I am really not in the know on this subject and what can and cannot be done and look good and not ruin things in the process. I look forward to seeing whatever you can come up with!

One more idea I have had as you proposed to perhaps show the shuttle earlier in the battle sequence there is an opportunity I spotted but it would be a new shot immediatley after luke crashes his snowspeeder [REF VID 3.01] as the music piece ends and would not affect pace at this point, and luke could just be unconscious almost a little cliff hanger, perhaps even pause at the last frame just a bit longer to make him look out cold. then Perhaps insert a flip shot from the begining of return of the Jedi with the Lamda shuttle and 2 ties fly towards the camera composited on a Hoth Matte? then cut back to Luke scrambling to free himself from the cockpit but also slow the first few frames and cue the music a bit later so it looks like he is just coming around to consciousness again.

Any way hope this extra input may inspire you furthur? Good Luck Imperial Fighter

just watched the new vid and it is really good although I think the sound of Vaders Light Sabre retracting needs to be more prenounced in the mix. the core looks so much better though.

Mithrandir said:

Davnes007 said:

aalenfae said:

...a little video of suggestions for Adywan the other month, if anybody cares to take a look:

http://vimeo.com/32681597

(Fixed da linky - there was an extra space at the end)

I really like the idea of Vader having his saber lit up, and ready for action when he enters the base.

 

On a slightly off-topic, techie note: Why was the frame rate of the video so...bad/weird?

 

 

I like the idea of Vader being more willing to kill in the shots, though I don't think having him have the lightsabre on is a very subtle way.

Remember OT is almost medieval-like in some aspect (before PT came up with more shit), with knights, princesses, etc. I always figured out that, unlike the Jedi, Vader only drews his sabre against other knights; as if only someone of his status deserves to die by his blade. A rather superb, an ancient-regime thought btw, something that someone over confident and fond of his ego like vader or any sith could believe. In fact, I think that's something that could be eventually pulled out as an interesting line in future PT:R.

We see Obi Wan attack the guy in the cantina with his sabre. Luke uses his sabre for chopping out the AT AT in Hoth, and later he uses it in the whole Jabba thing. But we never see that of Vader.

Those who are "lesser beings" always die choked, or in some other way that doesn't imply the sith lord moving a finger.

Again, a very medieval thought, and an interesting approach to what Jedi and Sith could believe of knighthood.

 

But even if this video is nice and insteresting, there's one thing I don't really like, cause it brings Vader down to real life. It's between 1:23 and 1:26, when he walks and has to evade an obstacle, passing between two pillars of the base. I always felt that part, even in the theatrical release, looks ackward and TVish. NOTHING can stand in vader's way if we don't want him to become some quotidian villain.

Greetings!

Hi all Revisited fans

My first Post on here but, like some of these ideas on the video posted above... I know what people are saying about vader walking through the base with his lightsabre on but I actually think it does make him more scary and menacing so well done on that, it does work in this respect even if people feel it is not aesthically correct for vader to do so. I Like the troops disembarking because it was a very fresh idea.

Reference Video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhpS69eAXrU

I have posted on the you tube channel for revisited but thought I would post my idea here to also see what others think of seeing vaders shuttle approach towards the end of the Hoth Battle.with reference to Vader getting to Hoth to Enter the Base he Obviously arrives via Lamda Shuttle probably with Tie Escorts. A Vader shuttle reveal might work in the scene immediatley after the AT-AT destroyed by luke falls over...  there is a shot of an AT-AT shooting at troops fleeing [5.01 REF VID]. Perhaps to  see the Shuttle with tie escorst in the  far distance in this shot and they could be travelling from the  right to the left and down in formation and then turning towards still in the distance with escort ties departing up this should be only very subtle though. The final shot of the shuttle only should be after the line "distance to power generators" it then cuts to the scene of the AT-AT shooting the snow speeder... [5.11 REF VID] Basically the shuttle should pass behind the AT-AT but fairly medium distance and carry on off screen to the left and this would make it look as if the snow speeder was attempting to pursue the shuttle only to be shot down by the AT-AT as it turns to chase. I think this would up the ante because the general has it in mind that he has already told vader to make his approach and the shield would be down in momments.

We will then have the new footage of the destroyed power generator model which presumably will cut to han and leia falling over after the explosion then running through the tunnel past c3po.

[5.55 REF VID] Immediatley after this, take the added docking bay executor scene from the ESB SE 2004 For Vader returning to the Executor from Bespin (which is being omitted I hope) and composite as foreground element only the Shuttle when Landed shot of vader walking off the shuttle. The background matte could be of the smoldering shield generator model Adywan has meticulously put together or destroyed for that matter ; with perhaps some snow troopers and a cut and paste AT-ST from ROTJ to come into frame as the camera pans and Vader walks down the ramp onto Hoth the best AT-ST could be the one that Han radio's in from to finally get into the ROTJ shield generator for the death star on Endor. I say put an AT-ST in the background only because we saw it marching ahead earlier when luke hits the ground  The AT-ST Should shoot after it's head turns to either blow open a hole or door if that footage could be used.  Finally Resume the footage of the rebel base invasion with Vader and the snow troopers coming in after the explosion. The Docking bay footage should probably flip so it looks like new footage but the feet of the AT-ST are not visible so some rocks or somthing might be needed to hide that in the composite....or whatever would work best. I feel these additions if they would work would truly bring Vader into the Battle on Hoth because for me it's a big gripe and I have thought long and hard about a way of possibly Bringing Vader Down to Hoth instead of just appearing out of nowhere. Sorry but do not have the skill to do this video compositing  but if anyone wants to give this idea a try then great! Or thinks they have a better way to do it?

Even if there is another way to bring Vader down without adding too much it would be good to see.

I hope Vaders shuttle leaving Bespin flying towards the executor stays in this edit of ESB because of Continuity also.

I cannot wait to see the final version of the hoth battle even if none of this stuff happens to be in the final edit. Just hoping it will be equivalent to what Adywan did with battle of Yavin