Ronster

Shaolin (2011)

I only saw this movie last week and I missed it back upon it’s release. Bunched in with other films I did see like Musa the warrior, the Warlords and so on War of the Arrows deserves a mention too. I feel like I cheated myself out of this film and glad I finally discoveted it, if only very late.

Being from the UK this is cut for Horse falls and Animal Cruelty you know the nation that holds the cruelest horse race ever known as the Grand National Broadcast and re-run on telly.

Anyway those cut’s are annoying and are disruptive but furthermore it seems the extra’s were overall better on the UK release but other regions got the deleted scened… 43 minutes of them.

That says to me there was certainly a longer cut planned for the 3 hour mark and noted some alternate dialogue in UK extra’s especially upon Any Lau killing his Military Rival over the children arrange marridge proposal at dinner. It’s not the greatest plot written but this film does have a heart aswell as some really good Martial arts.

I have no idea about the 43 minutes of deleted material or what they contain overall but there was a good training scene fight in there at the temple I have seen on youtube. Requires sound editing and VFX wire removal. The director Benny Chan has now passed away so a Directors cut is not possible. But from the gist of a review most deleted material relates to the monks and character building and fleshing out sub plots.

I really quite enjoyed Jackie Chan in this film too sometimes I find him a bit too whacky but he was much more grounded here but it all fit quite well as the legendary Cook who saves the temple.

I reckon this 2 hour movie needed a bit longer to flesh out the story and an extended cut would be a good thing for it. It’s rare you get a decent kung fu flick with a decent drama and for that reason alone I think it would be a good idea. The fight scenes are also really well done but not overdone. The balance is good on this one.

Being

waffle said:

For me, it’s Bringing Out the Dead. Really hoping this can receive a proper 4k restoration some day.

Scorsesee with Nicholas Cage about ambulance drivers. Yeah I have that film on dvd it’s a great film. I think. Not much said about it these days.

I went to buy a copy of Killers of the flower moon and was horrified it’s not on physical media. Only in Italy does it have a blu-ray release. They really are trying to kill off physical media.

Godzilla (2014)

This film needs a Special Edition. It was a very enjoyable movie albeit with complaints.

1. Not enough Kaiju action

2. It felt like stuff was missing

3. Overly dark Tranfer

It’s another title where Gareth Edwards was shadowed by Gilroy coming in to do a final pass on the edit. But it seems Edwards is less afflicted here than Rougue One’s changes and ultimately Gareth Edwards walked away from Godzilla trilogy after Rogue One which he was slated to helm.

There is quite a bit of information floating around about this Extended or Directors Cut and for the most part it sounds good.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MT_fZOlx-9I

And the Novel based on the script.

https://wikizilla.org/wiki/Godzilla:_The_Official_Movie_Novelization

The Novel seems pretty accurate account. I especially like the deformed radioactive miners in the phillipines that would have really given it an unsettled feeling.

So More Character scenes for the most part. Which is good but still only small whiffs of monster action. I think that formula is better though. Just look at King of the Monsters the sequal… A terrible mess of a movie with very poor writing and horrible characters tonally awful. Which brings to my attention one scene in King of the Monsters which may have been lifted from the original 2014 version. Not only is it the only good scene in KOTM but it is also the only scene that has the same tone as 2014 original.

The scene is a board room meeting where they discuss what to do about the monsters and how it effects the planet and civilization to which Ken Watanabe quips about Godzilla being the saviour or something.

This scene feels like it was the ending scene of the 2014 movie to me. And I would be unsurprised if it was lifted from it.

So far as extra Monster action that was removed there is the scene after Golden Gate where fighter jet’s attack near Alcatraz which is unreleased. There is also smatterings of extended shots or alternate angles of Kaiju fighting.

The recent TV series expanded on the Bikinni Atoll Nuclear test and I think perhaps that would perhaps be enough to satify fans a bit on more Godzilla too.

Essentially KOTM has no reason to exist nor does any other of the strange monster verse stuff idea aside from Kong Skull Island. Everything else seems like junk being churned out.

If I were them I would consolidate and do good service to the 2014 Godzilla effort and pretty much forget the rest apart from Kong Skull Island film which was good too.

Conan the Barbarian (1982)

Arrow recently put out a release of this title but there is still quite a bit missing.

There is censorship cut’s to the film which indeed are sometimes very blunt or footage is swapped or left to run longer than intended in various parts but that is not the main issue.

It is the cut’s to the charcters performances which is the main issue and particularly bad editing in Zamora. I will just spit out the list from my head I might miss some things but it is very deserving of a reconstruction.

Black Screen at the start over narration is missing footage of a map amongst Conan sitting on a throne. Possibly some big Wednesday footage.

There were some shots of young conan and his father climbing the mountain removed. (Build up to top of mountain rather than just appearing there)

Young Conan is pursued by the pictish warrior big brute with all the tattoo’s. Conan’s mum saves him and kills the big brute warrior. This is not at all clear in the film as it is all cut out.

There was alternative versions of the pit fighter sequence.

When conan is set free we do not see him open the cage or cave collapse in an earthquake. Crom was angry. It’s unclear wether Conan was to escape his prision but still not really know what to do or run away by instinct. They did say it looked bad / not working. But him being on a leash in a storm was it seems to come after the cage and earthquake.

When Conan frees Subotai there is more dialogue between the 2 of them. “Your too big to be a thief” which is heard when Arnold punches the camel much later in the film.

Once we get to civilization and Zamora the editing becomes very messy. The big part missing is the pickpocket scene. This has quite a bit of dialogue and leads into the tower of Set procession with the princess with important dialogue. Then in the film as released we hear voiceover lines before the raid on the tower of set. This dialogue was taken from a deleted scene, camp set above the city with waterwheel and foreground miniature of the tower. Ron Cobbs cameo has strange insert of tower in that scene another odd edit. Once getting into the Towers grounds over the wall we meet Valeria. However Valeria introducing herself by name is cut so we never know her name. That is really bad editing choice criminal in fact. Once reaching the top of the tower Subtai kills a neadthal guard and Valeria takes a jewl. Finally the fight with the big snake has some better alternate angles which were Sadly not used.
Oops nearly forgot the elephant doing a big pooh in the city and Conan’s reaction “how does the wind ever get in here” shot of the elephant is missing ruining the joke.

When we get to the love yurt with Valeria and Conan. There was a scene where they look at eachothers scars and it is here that Valeria is shown as a pit fighter like Conan.

When Conan goes to Thulsa Dooms palace the Speech given by James Earl Jones was shortned. Conan being beaten up was shortened and cut. One of Thulsa dooms servents does a Har-Kari on themselves commanded by Thulsa Doom and then the girl jumps off the cliff by command.

The Wolf Witch was to re-appear in the film and have another scene. She may have told Subotai where to find Conan on the tree of Woe. I Can’t confirm this but it is probably the only other place she could have re-appeared I think in any purposeful way.

Upon attacking Thulsa Dooms Palace to get the princess there was to be some voiceover explaining the neandethals as they prepare cannibal feast and also regarding the orgy there is some dialogue missing. Too many repeated shots of Thulsa doom covering cut scenes. A bit more censorship during the battle here.

After this battle and the pillar crashes a scene where Subotai shoots a couple of arrows at soldiers and Conan and Valeria run off rather than lingering far too long on thogrimm. Extra dialogue when Thulsa Doom talks to his henchmen after becoming human again. This was in a trailer.

King Ozric being slain was removed.

Valerias funeral… There was an editing error where you hear the music and see the explosion on the pyre repeated but footage is different angle. Should only be once. This also has a missing Narration by mako found in Conan the destroyer “and so Conan mourns his loss Valeria”

Battle of the mounds has a scene prior where Mako explains the ground has drunk so much blood. The Battle itself has some censorship cut’s and is not in entirely correct order. Various shots are flipped horizontally. Stuff missing and noticeably so. Conan throws a Spear which Knocks a Rider off a Horse. The worst Cut though is Conan Finishing off the guy who falls off a horse before Thulsa Doom Rexor and Thogrim move in on Conan.

Finally the Extended version ending is better however we miss Conan killing another guard before getting to Thulsa doom. A more graphic angle Conan showing Thulsa Dooms head Upon Conan walking off with the princess that was not the end. Conan and Subotai were to say farewell to oneanother and part ways.

As you can see by that write up there is a lot removed from the film. It is still one of my favourites if not my most favourite film. I think it suffered quite a bit though in editing though. It’s very deserving of a proper reconstruction. It’s probably an ectra 10 minutes tops.

Tarzan - The Legend of Greystoke (1984)

This film was partially restored for home video however a further 25 minutes of scenes in the congo and Tarzan growing up. The preferred Directors cut has never seen the light of day. It would be nice to see this version fully restored.

Padding out the release it would be great to have a documentary on Rick Bakers apes costumes and there creation.

Also include comprehensive documentary on the making of the film.

An Interview with the Vampire (1994)

This film was cut for theatrical running time then regret set in and the producers wanted the longer version more than the theatrical release. Whilst the director was quite happy with the shorter version both the producers and directors have expressed a desire to restore the longer cut as time has passed.

Quite a bit was cut from the Paris segment of the story.

Padding out the release a documentary on the script writing phase by anne rice and making of the film with a segment on Stan Winstons make up and special effects.

Stargate (1994)

This film did recieve a botched directors cut / extended cut but it is censored and still missing scenes and special effects.

MGM holds the rights to the film and the franchise and hold it in high regard yet still continue with the botched version of the extended cut.

The Director Roland Emmerich and Writer Dean Devlin want to remake or reboot the movie and start again. This is a bad decision because they still did not properly finish the longer version. MGM should allow them to properly finish the directors cut proper.

There are many trims and small cut’s throughout but also still whole parts remain removed. Ontop of this the Staff Laser effects remain unfinished or totally absent from the longer cut. Music cues were also ruined with the cut’s and trims made to both versions.

1. 2nd time Stargate is opened remains cut

2. Longer version of going up ramp and through stargate whilst the animation no longer looks the same as original. Stars flicker.

3. Some Bad Matte Painting work like Cardboard cut outs.

4. Various B-Roll shots ended up in Stargate SG-1

5. Both Kurt Russel and Daniel are killed & resurrected from the dead however only Daniel is shown in the coffin. Kurt Russell being shown dead after a beating is missing.

6. A sequence involving riding on the horse like creatures and being pursued by Deathgliders into a sandstorm is missing. The deathgliders return back to the pyramid at night having lost them in the sandstorm. The scene of the guard being told off for his failure by RA was restored however in the extended cut.

7. Various censorship cut’s movie was originally an R-Rated film cut for PG-13. RA’s severed hand is cut amongst little bit more blood from deaths here and there.

8. Final Battle was a bit bigger in scope with death gliders being destroyed fight in the hall shortened.

9. Kurt Russel Fight with the guard was shortend.

10. Alternate Ending where Daniel walks off with the people of Abydos.

Total Recall (1990)

This film is a bonafide Classic and it’s pretty perfectly constructed. I don’t have much in the way to critisize this film at all. It did however suffer censorship cuts which should now be waived.

The problem seems to revolve around the Master print that was created which was by and large the same around the world and a distribution rights issue. When the Austrailian censors demanded further censorship cut’s this caused issues with releasing the film there and not wanting to deviate from the Video Master. However the further cut’s that were demanded were made for the Austrailian release. These censors are a bit whacky though. Yes I can tell that eyes popping out of a dummies head is not real. I know all these things are not real but I want to appreciate the art that went into the make up and special effects. It might be gory but we know it is all a bit of fun. The only other cut’s relate to whilst Quaid and Melina run away near the big glass window on Mars Quaid asks something like “what have you been doing since I saw you last?” She replies “Modelling for Recall…” this explains her image on the computer at Recall when the girl asks “what type of women do you like?”.

The teaser trailer animatic was meant to be inserted on the black screen before opening credits play.

Censorship cuts were:

1. Benny’s death is optically cropped to remove the exiting drill erupting from his stomach.
2. The innocent bystander used as a shield was bloodier before trimming.
3. The stabbing of Helm in the bar had the bowie knife slicing up his stomach. Stills of this were actually featured in Fangoria magazine at the time of the film’s release. (Noticeably)
4. Several shots of the scientists being killed by Quaid after he breaks free from the implant-machine were shortened. (Noticeably)
5. The scene of Richter’s arms being severed was shortened.

We got Commando and Robocop uncut but not this. Seems pretty trivial not to restore this just create a deleted scenes section or put new conformation cut together.

The only thing I would tag on to this would be the UK Arena TV documentary on Phillip K Dick. Extremely interesting and Highly Reccomended.

Also

Gladiator (2000)

Ridley Scotts theatrical cut was his preffeted version yet the extended cut is much better I think however censorship cut’s remain. I think both should be retained but using the extended cut as the basis a 3rd version should be assembled.

The Physical Bronze opening crawl is really good but no wheat field after that straight into battle.

Most censorship cuts are available in the extras across various releases some in poor quality some are reasonable. Some missing material alters the structure of the edit but only within the scenes themselves.

Opening Battle extra catapulted fireballs people burning and shot by arrows.

Missing death of Barbarian with Big hammer (unreleased) and Maximus does not fight in slowmotion.

Most major censorship cuts happen in Morrocan gladiator fight and the chariot Fight. The morrocan Chain gang fight was shortened quite a bit and re-edited. Build up was better to door opening into the ring Arm Severed shot missing and impalement on spike missing. Flow of sequence is disrupted / disjointed due to the cut’s made A Ceremonial killing happens at the end for those suffering barely alive after the battle by blunt club to head.

When a chariot flips up one of the women is impaled on the gate spikes above with splash of blood. This is crppoed out. The beheaded soldier on chariot is more graphic and runs a bit longer. Probably some more cuts in that fight. This fight does not feel disrupted by edits however.

A vulture pecks a dead gladiator in morrocco.

You see Maximus son trampled by a horse (CGI)

There could be more cut’s I am unaware off there is also some very well shot scenes which are non violent. Joquien phoenix riding through forest to see his father. The caravan to the morroccan arena. The Red Dye passage to the arena before fight. Theres quite a few really good shots which are cut for time.

That’s more or less it for Gladiator. These 2 are not B-Movies but certainly deserve to be served up uncut and censorship waived. There are more special features that remain unreleased and some of it was done by national geographic for gladiator.

https://www.mediafire.com/view/ny3ar1296v1rly7/Massasi_Temple%25282%2529.png/file

Not saying you should copy this if you want to you can It’s not perfect by any means.

I got the temple matching the SE from a game promo screenshot I think it was SW battlefront 2. The planet matte which was hand drawn was from a Yavin IV poster I found on image search. I had to reshape it but I think that looks better than SE planet element albeit withoit clouds. This was an idea to keep original take off shot of x-wing leaving the temple, but SE inspired matte.

I like that idea though on that shot good call to put the planet. That is the one before the medal ceremony right?

https://www.mediafire.com/view/4oxwluhvgwmmcsk/Hanger_matte_final.png/file

I did this Hangar Matte for the Vader take off shot. You can use if you want to also. I won’t be doing any work on anything for a while.

So I am trying to make this list an interesting read compared to the general lists floating about on mainstream articles but I need others input too. I want to hear your good ideas.

Ok

The Time Machine (2002)

Another B-Movie of a modest Budget and another film with a story to tell about production trouble in the bonus features.

First up we have a deleted opening scene which should be restored to the film as the content of this scene permiates throughout the plot and provides important context for scenes that appear later on.

Next we have a deleted FX sequence that was apprently completed of the moon breaking up and meteorites slamming into buildings in New york. This was removed due to 9/11 terrorist attacks. This ILM fx sequence remains unreleased.

The next problem revolves around Stan Winstons Morlocks. The creatures were designed to only ever be shot and photographed in the dark. All the scenes were due to be set at night as they are nocturnal creatures. Then this suddenly changed and Stan Winston studios openly proclaimed our work looks shit here because the producers keep changing stuff too late in the design process and basically the statement firmly places blame on the studio for there whole look and appearance being poor. Surely this could have been somewhat remedied as doing a day for night color grading on the morlock scenes? I think having nocturnal creatures running about in the day should call for the intention of “day for night” grading to remedy these sequences and perhaps get these parts looking as originally intended. The Morlocks should of had reflective eyes or lit eyes? This could be a further missing attribute for the these monsters…

Finally the Director Simon Wells related to Orson Wells then suffered an exhaustion burn out and Gore Verbinski was brought in to finish off the film.

The ending was completely reshot and Jeremy Irons part was added late in production he was not originally attached to be in the film. It is noted that the film does not contain any mention of inequality and utopia as in the novel or any anti war messages which is sorely lacking. Especially leading up to this point should have been more pronounced. It does beg the question about other times he was perhaps due to visit to see these themes not perhaps have them explained.

In the theatrical trailer there is different VFX background at 1.14 for a Time travel arrival in far future showing the Eloi had evolved into a technolgical race. Something may have changed there or it was cut also. Another deleted scene… I guess showing hope before things go to hell. The Teaser trailer contains a good version of the time machine with guy pearce inside and an animatic for the logo with a mobius strip cool design that logo. Should be on the cover or the disc menu.

The film actually exists in a reality where the book is acknoledged to have been written by H.G. Wells and a fictional musical by Andrew Loyd Webber which Vox starts singing. That there should be cut out of the film. It is totally lame.

Theres an interesting story about production problems that would make for good special features material. Also a featurette on the actual time machine prop would be nice an impressive steam punk looking bit of kit and very expensive too to build it $13M. Whilst it’s not an amazing film there is scope to improve upon what is there in a Special extended edition release.
Furthermore the soundtrack is extremely good for this film way better than the film itself. A special feature on the soundtrack would be great as well. Perhaps also a feature on Orson Wells too would be something to pad it out going over his body of work.

All in all the time machine was ok but just barely scraping the average but the ingredients were there to be better than what it actually was. Is the future of this film written in destiny or could it be changed for better or for worse. Whilst making it destiny was not considered at all. So Fix this film up and present a better vetsion as intended. I feel that there could be even more unreleased stuff for this film that has still yet to be released. Anyhow that’s the special edition premise idea.

The Ghost and the Darkness (1996)

Again a modest budget B-movie which envisioned itself as the next Jaws but with animatronic lions and perhaps bat’s too.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116409/trivia/

Quite a bit of a troubled production which is definitely amazing special features material. Controversy and nobody being particularly happy with the end result and claims 45 minutes were removed in post production.

Now I can see this movie did indeed suffer cut’s but 45 minutes worth would be the workprint I could see an extra 10 to 20 minutes from glancing over the script and a lot has to do with the animatronic lion.

When you actually look at the script action scenes there are many explained frenetic edits involving cutting away to something then to the animatronic lion growling roaring piercing eyes perhaps something in it’s mouth you get the idea. On paper this looks a lot but in reality these are quick frenetic edits to and from the animatronic lion. And I will be honest this would not only make for good special features documentary but it’s practically only in one shot within the film. These sequences could have been quite artistic. The script is very visual. I could also imagine more savannah footage B-roll being interlaced which was beuatifully shot.

Now regarding claims Michael Douglas cut down screen time of Val Kilmer to include himself more I am also not sure this rings true entirely. It looks like there was a couple of extra scenes with Patterson and Remington together if anything and some more of Abdullah character.

A scene that also seems to be a horror jump scare involved when Patterson and Remmington venture into the lions cave or lair. They hear something Remmington fires his gun and a swarm of bat’s flies out the cave. Sounds like a nice jump scare scene cut for budget perhaps who knows but that sounds quite good. Stan Winstons bats?

Another scene that stood out was the ghost lion when killed somone had their photo taken with it dead. This is the animatronic lion again I would guess but the actor opens the mouth of the dead lion and sticks his head in the dead lions mouth to have his photo with trophy kill.

So I think that pretty much sums it up. It would be interesting to see this film with the animatronic lion and bat’s even restored to a extended or unrated version. Amongst some good documentaries about the ego’s at play and troubled production and Stan Winstons missing lions creature effects restored and their creation covered in detail. This could obviously be coupled with the real lions that were trained and used and a true historical documentary on the history of Tsavo lions vs the film. Plenty to make a truly brilliant release.

Stephan Hopkins other film.

Predator 2 (1990)

This would be intetesting also to see a uncensored version. I don’t see much extra missing scenes perhaps a couple and more violence during the opening drug bust operation and aparently the predator trophy scene had more scrern time Danny Glover at a funeral and some bar scene…But this film never had any other cut other than what was released theatrically however there was censorship at play as the film was assembled and given it’s a predator film it would be something that would be worth restoring and waiving the censorship cuts for the true 18 rating for fan’s of the Predator franchise. It’s a very quoteable fun film and it desrves a bit more horror / gore like the original. Quite a lack of special features for this film compared to the original too. It would be interesting to focus on the new Predator weapons and so on and some of the set’s and production location shoots. But Predator 2 is a censored yet solid effort with not much in the way of extra’s also considering the scope of the project.

https://www.melonfarmers.co.uk/bbfc_cuts_predator_2.htm

As far as I can gather the main cut’s were to the guy being stabbed and gutted whilst hanging upside down and a digital carcass overlayed in front of Keynes as the flying frisbee disc chops him in half. Probably some other stuff too certainly a curiosity. Apparently although the shoot out was more graphic you don’t see the Predator kill the Drug Gang at the start and you don’t see extra violence on King Willies Death either. I can imagagine more graphic ends for Harrigans sidekicks or team though as well as the FBI agents in the warehouse but it’s small stuff.

Overall The Ghost and the Darkness is the more interesting of the two and more deserving but Predator 2 uncensored would be an easier sell. So I would treat it as a 2 stage project Predator 2 first uncensored and with the guarenteed revenue from that release put profit towards making the far better more intetesting restoration to Ghost and the darkness with the aforemention wealth of Special features that would be extremely interesting. Cheaper and easier and more poular film pays for more obscure yet more interesting and frankly better films restoration.

Example:

The Cave (2005)

Quite good B-movie horror very little in way or special features although material is available.

Two articles on it.

https://movieweb.com/movieweb-goes-into-the-cave-with-cole-hauser/

http://horror-movie-a-day.blogspot.com/2008/05/cave.html

Seems like they butchered the movie going up against the descent 2005 and tried to turn it into a TV movie. There are obvious cut’s going on. Cole Hauser stresses that a directors cut will come out… Never did. Article sites numerous fades to black to insert TV adverts not Theatrical. Very little gore for a horror film. Opening mountain shots had flicker on it on my Dvd. No profanity when in a very streesful situation f-bombs are no doubt censored.

I thought the film was pretty good though. Good special effects. Trailer has extra stuff in it not in the film a tell tale sign something or quite a few things changed. Was Rushed editing was rushed.

Idea - Release a directors cut or unrated extended cut or deleted scenes on the side with the film. A directors cut or unrated cut would be preferable. Give this movie a chance to be a horror film and have more character engadgement. Sound effect of sonic scanning machine was well dodgy find a different sound effect! Ruined the use of it. Credits song was poor also. Audio was good for most part though but could do with some edits. Heartbeat style score music was very good. 2 soundtracks were released one for score one for licensed heavy metal music. Problem is heavy metal does not fit with catacombs or underwater caves… Needed something else there. Poor judgement on atmoshere. Another matter of Dialogue when Divers have regulators in their mouth should not only not be able to talk but the silence and lack of communication would benefit those scenes cave diving. I think the diving sign language element was cut out which I would assume could of played a part in not being detected by the creatures also. But some of the dialogue could have been prep talk deleted scenes before the dive whilst other dialogue were just forced ADR and did not a lot. Removing dialogue from those parts would be the way to go and restore whatever the original plan was before films running time was sacrificed.

Collect together all scattered extras from various releases or construct new documentary. Especially on the set’s and the expert cave divers and the story / lore and special effects and location shoots.

This film deserves a 2nd chance although it’s always pitched against 2005 the descent almost as if this film does not exist. The creatures make more sense than in the descent in the cave. I can’t help but feel there is a better movie locked in a can somewhere. I miss films like this we don’t get this quality production set’s in Horror that much these days it’s all green screen cheap crap. Give this film another chance.

https://theasc.com/magazine/aug05/cave/page1.html

Here is an interview with Bruce Hunt

https://youtu.be/m7eZFu7_0rw?si=QD3sEBMxBdwRclG6

The bit where he talks about “the cave” starts at 19.55

He confirms there were many changes imposed and he did not have the control he would have liked in the editing room. I doubt it was shot but the opening in the church was meant to be Nazi Soldiers not Brittish and Russian. I guess the Nazi soldiers were written out but still. It confirms that the film was meant to be R rated and a different tone. No doubt it had character beats lost. Directors resume includes Dark City and The Matrix trilogy as well as Austrailia with Hugh Jackman. Mostly 2nd Unit but a talented guy who had very little control over his first and only directional effort.

I remember back in Covid I rang Arrow Video and had a nice chat with somone there I was kind of looking for a job or a project since the industry I worked in was non existant due to health restrictions. They were not in good shape either. Cut a long story short. Arrow / shout factory do quite a good job when collecting materials together for lesser movies either license good restorations from others or do it themselves. And put together some good home media.

This thread is an un-official wish list. Post your idea (movie) that you think deserves the arrow / shout treatment especially older horror or more obscure films. Let’s hope one day somone reads it and says “oh that’s a great Idea!”

Horror B-Movies have always been a guilty pleasure of mine but I am not limiting the list to horror so I think It would be good to create a wish list of movies that deserve a restoration and extras basically ideas for a great home media release even though home media seems to be sort being killed off. Let’s ressurect it like we should some movies in this list.

Please post the Title and year and explain what it is that would make it a dream release.

So to summarize on this.

I think Coppola did a good job on Redux but it falls short with some bad decisions. I have not seen the final cut version yet but this for all intentents and purposes is a halfway house affair between theatrical and Redux.

I would very much like to see a fourth attempt at this considering Redux took and drew from the cut assembled prior to the decision to slash the running time.

The Booby trap scene is good.

Lance Shooting at the water buffalo is good anf it gived up thete position which led to Cleans death.

I think cleans funeral could be shown just the shot of his flag wrapped body would be enough disdolving over chief looking whilst tape recorder is playing.then go with the monkey sampan sequence without intercutting.

The scene with Kurtz and Willard talking at the Bamboo cage about “Right and Wrong” from the workprint is much stronger scene than of the shipping container scene in Redux. But I think the Solitary confinement should be shown as more torture until Kurtz decides to put willard under guard. It just should not have hime reading times magazine.

That is a difference in the film Redux and theatrical Willard is let to roam freely as per Willards narration lines. The actual intention or story was Willard was NOT allowed to roam freely. So that creates conflict about Kurtz wanting to die and choosing Willard to sacrifice him. Tbat does indeed mean Kurtz did not want to die or give up his power. But it is inferred that people under Kurtz were growing tired of him killing people indiscriminately for little or no reason. That Willard was being chosen by the people as an alternative to Kurtz. Kurtz did indeed accept his fate when it came and knew he had lost support.

The workprint has a few occasions were gun’s can be heard going off too no doubt to kill someone indiscriminately although not shown nor cut to visually That whole indiscriminate killing is not shown at all. Kurtz I think may have shot the french guy he was talking to. Although it happens off screen.

Still an excellent film in any version that won’t change. But the way I see it. If you are going to create an extended version keep the extra stuff in that is Strong and cut out the stuff that is weak. That was the basis of the theatrical cut and I guesd thinking on the final cut, but Coppola seems hung up on the plantation scene. He should just let that go and serve uo the stronger material and sort out the narration problem before Willard goes to the briefing. Brilliant bit of film making though amid a very messy production.

This 8mm behind the scenes footage is very interesting and may point to the reason Colbys death was left out which in turn meant dennis hoppers death was also removed.

https://youtu.be/FAGq9pnfzOE?si=mm00M6cWrRxvFHTW

There is some good air cavalry coverage in this shooting but reference Colbys death right near end of video looks like the special forces knife was on a wire. Well the wire is plain as day to see in sunlight. Seems this explains Colbys line that he explains as he dies “special forces knife…” because they felt it neccesary to crop out the knife flying on the wire I suppose. Also dennis Hoppers squibs or bloodbags when shot by Colby shotgun is shown uncropped. Look pretty graphic.

If Coppola cut the scene because the wire looked bad I can understand that. But could easily be removed digitally today. Choice would be knife shown (without wire) in Colby’s chest no dialogue falls straight off ledge into water. I lean towards him only saying “Kill Kurtz” i really like his bug eating scene too. Quite entertaining.

Just dropping some thoughts regarding the material available for the ending.

Whilst none of it particularly conflicts with the outcome that Willard completes his mission.

I think that at one time, the intention was although you see Willard complete his mission in every version the intention may have been that the viewer was not meant to be sure if it was real or imagined. There is a sense of that in the film but it is not as pronounced as it perhaps could have been or should have been.

This I have concluded because of the flash forwards at the start of the film. The prostitute by the window blinds although we don’t see willard in bed with her has the same posture and squatting as a woman straight after kurtz is killed mourning.

So within the compund should have been more surreal than it already is.

But although the callbacks to the start montage are there there at “the end” there is no outro montage as such a bit is there though. I think this was really the intention at one time to be more of a surreal montage so you were not sure if it was real or not within the moment the past or the future But it never got to the same level as the opening section montage. But the seeds of it are there within the story. Showing images Kurtz alive in the shadows after he was killed would achieve this in full. Showing willard escape but then still be trapped in a cage. Colby eating bugs after his death and so on.

Anyway this may have been the creative difference and was chosen to play it down and more straight and conclusive… Rather than Inconclusive and delibetately confused but with clarity enough within that confusion willard completed his mission however real or imagined it was is up to the individual to decide.

Edit:

Something also springs to mind when think8ng of the opening montage. Going off or riffing off hearts of darkness and Willard feeling that the home he knew was not there anymore and the imposing one culture on another instant gratification theme. Something that would have really rammed the theme home would have been a city skyline dissolving into the napalm strike footage. Willard was divorced that day from his wife hence the prostitute I guess.

Bookending this at the end Willard took Kurtz notes and writings and was to originally either speak with Kutz Wife or Son (ending had about 10 rewrites). Willard was to lie and not be entirely truthful about what happened to Kurtz or his last words to family. I don’t think this ending would have worked at all yet Willard still takes the writings.

This again is paradoxical as he has left the army no need to prove anything to his superiors yet takes the notes still he is also not going to Speak to Kurtz son or wife for that matter. So the notes are taken to be… Destroyed?

Kurtz wanted death but his writings to potentially live on past his moment of realization as he died.

This is why I think it should have played the slug on the razor blade speech angle with Willard dreamed it up in a cage after escape, Kurtz still lives after death the camp is bombed as the tribe dances. All opaque. Like it all happened and it all never happened. The truth is that nobody will ever know anyway and that is the point nobody is supposed to know. The mission never existed Nothing would be resolved which ever way you look at it. There was no redemption. Kurtz does not exist in the land of city skyscrapers “real world” neither does Willard.
But whatever did happen would just be a conspiracy theory there would be no reality that accepted the truth. So it must all be a lie. So the truth is that it is all lies. Kurtz says as much and his death should be treated no diffetent as should Willards escape and living on…all lies.

I went through the Special features and they do indeed present a slightly better quality version of it in those documentaries.

When looking through the documentaries on full disclosure edition R1 they openly admit the plantation sequence was troublesome and could not get it working.

Furthermore the Redux version was struck from tri color technicolor prints. As the film was being assembled in the fashion of Redux and the day before a decision to cut the films running time for theatrical release. It was only that day before a first acceptable kind of working version of the plantation scene was made. Redux is struck from that longer version that was assembled before they stripped it out. Also of note the tiger scene looks much better not being blue or day for night photo chemical effect. Should have just left it. Actually looks darker in the Raw form.

In the documentaries also upon talking on the edit. When the decision was made to cut the film down in length the ending was not decided upon or assembled. It was a mish mash of improvisation with no clear vision. There was a lot of commitee and debate frequently on putting the film together. There were multiple cut’s by different editors of scenes before a vision was taken forward. So it was very meticulous yet it would seem the ending kept being put on hold.

As far as I can tell regarding the endings various material. Where Willard is locked in the shipping container and Colby killing Dennis Hopper then Willard killing Colby are in the same story line of events.

Regarding the bombing of the compund credits scene. Even if Coppola did not want Willard to look like he was ordering bombing of all the people at the temple compund. They people clearly were no longer there. So Willard did indeed turn off the radio on “Almighty”. Perhaps he lead by example put down weapons and left and it is clear the tribe or people there also laid down weapons and most likely left. If anything that is more worrying because there would be many dangerous including willard and crazy including willard people on the loose. But the whole power structure was broken up I guess.

The workprint is clearly the basis for the released film anyway It is just a matter of what you can get working better.

I do think the Monkey Sampan scene is the alternate to the french plantation. They shot that as the alternate choice. However it is not in the workprint.

Just to add there was a severe creative disagreement on the ending where an editor threatened to destroy the film if his voice and choice was not heard on the ending. That editor was removed and they got the film back. I wonder what he disagreed with so much?

Something else just came to me the exchange between Willard and Kurtz.

Willard “If I’m wrong and your right why don’t you just kill me and get it over with?”

Kurtz suddenly looks up his facial features coming into the light…

I think hear would be a smash cut to willard in solitary confinement. Sound of container door slamming. Whilst in the darkness should be surreal showing passing of time. The whole Kurtz in the Light or in the dark is very interesting artistic decision. I am not sure I personally would go with Kurtz reading the times article to willard but I would have him just open the door.

Ok I found the missing monologue for when the helicopter lands before mission briefing… It’s in the Original theatrical trailer.

“I’ve been a soldier since I was 19 and still have’nt learned to wait for it…I wanted a mission for my sins and they gave me one… Nobody ever went on a mission like this before…And when it was over, I’d never want another one”

I think that’s the monologue before the briefing that was meant to play.

Well a recent VHS clip from a workprint of Dune 1984 sparked my curiosity if something could be done with this footage.

The Dune clip had chromatic abberation too. Search restored lost deleted scene Dune 1984. On Max Evry channel. There is a restoration explaination too.

I reckon the official DVD version of workprint scenes are marginally better but not all are shared. Most things are snippets or brief things to be fair. But really I guess where we start to get real story is at the end with Colby and photojournalist deaths.

I guess one day technology will catch up.

I reckon Redux and Final cut are close to being the complete story but it just stops short in execution with that plantation sequence. All the drive and momentum just peels away.

By the way I did not check who was indeed on the boat in Monkey Sampan scene so no idea if it could intercut with plantation scene. But obviously it did not intercut with the compound as presented. It might intercut with shot’s of Brando / Kurtz from the hollow men stuff though.

Yeah It did look like a stretch. However the scenes on the DVD are slightly better on the DVD full disclosure edition probably the same as on Bluray too. Probably same video source. That is what that 2nd attempt is from on 2nd youtube link. Where as the 1st youtube link is the VCD as you say.

It seems we are looking at some censorship in Apocalypse now too. But it is not anything that alters the plot.

I think realistically. What is in the workprint that is’nt in the film (Redux) is not that much.

I have just studied the workprint vs the Redux version and this is my observations.

On opening sequence with “The End” song by the doors. Willard with the prostitute would be placed where the flash forward to Kurtz compound would be placed. This is strange choice to include Kurtz compound here. Music is also combined with Jim Morrison saying “fuck, fuck yeah”

Martin Sheen doing handstand and full frontel nudity would probably first choice version of scene but perhaps Martin sheen had reservations on it

On streets of Saigon only the final bit with the Army truck is relevant.

Upon landing in the helicopter to get the mission briefing Martin Sheens voiceover here in Redux makes no sense. That voice over should come later after the briefing on the montage linking up with the rest of it. This then raises the question about the surrounding footage in the workprint being intercut with sound of helicopter blades. Perhaps people on the base and the Ranger sign on lieu of that narration moving.

Pretty much everything else is included as of this point until the “booby trap” shootung at the toy boat scene.

I think if the chromatic abberation could be solved on the VCD then it would be possible to then start thinking about then trying to sharpen and upscale it. Willard in the opening montage would probably be somewhat Opaque or could be on some other B-Roll of flames or something. I reckon done in the right order could get a somewhat better result.

Noticed Lance shooting at water buffalo not in deleted scenes only on VCD.

Monkey Sampan is fairly decent quality. Would be useable but Just considering the plantation. The funeral bit is good I wonder if the french “conspiracy theory” bit was to perhaps intercut with footage from the monkey Sampan scene making it much more brief.

There is quite alot of opacity effects in the film to show time passing / surrealism and dreamlike smoke for instance. A lot of smoke.

Looking at this attempt…

https://youtu.be/M2IWFgjSt8I?si=80HacdbL2LwiGBYr

Not sure it looks better than the original workprint. Before any upscaling would be better to deal with the chromatic abberation?

The purple hue looks like it could be brought back around to red fairly easily with selective correction. Perhaps a better way to deal with this?

Better attempt by sompne else.

https://youtu.be/Koi3EMf-Xuo?si=puAQJYyIsOU0e73u

Seems much more even handed approach seems like it can be salvaged a bit image wise.

Audiowise it would be tough but would need new sound effects and everything else to construct new mix.

I got the title Willards Odyssey off of a map detailing willards desent into madness.

I think that is really what apocalypse now is all about. A descent into madness.

Givem Technological advancement of video repair software especially for VHS sources I was wondering if parts of the workprint could be brought up to good dvd quality or to perhaps 720p but I do mean decent. Any suggestions on any free software to do this? Or anyone feel like having a go?

The thing is the theatrical version is extremely good but Redux and even final cut feel too bloated due to the plantation sequence which is a very different tone to the rest of the film.

I don’t mind the playboy bunny scenes showing sexual repression and such they seem to fit the ever forward motion even to stop for a bit. The plantation scene however brings the whole thing to a grinding halt and personally although there are aspects of Redux I do like very much this scene feels like quite a departure from a very paranoid and weird trip down the river into madness.

When examining the list of scenes from the workprint there could be some simple things like establishing shots and things of this nature or alternates but in terms of whole scenes these few stand out.

1. A scene where a minuature toyboat passes the Navy PBR Lance trys to grab it Chief yells at him claiming it is a booby trap. Chief shoots it and it explodes.

2. When lance is reading letterd on the boat he suddenly stops to shoot a machine gun at a water buffalo.
   Chief tells him off.

3. The Monkey Sampan scene

4. Once we reach the compound re-instating photojournalist (Dennis Hopper) scenes and Colbys scenes including both their deaths and a somehow shortend / edited Willard in the cage ritual.

As for Kurtz he is better off being mysterious I think.

5. Include the bombing of the compound by airstrike over credits.

I think I would go with Redux but remove the Plantation scene and add those aforemention scenes. Especially good reason to go with Redux is because the extra Robert Duvall stuff is so good.

Do you really admire the plantation sequence or do you think it is better without it?

Are there any scenes from the workprint you really think should have been restored?

Did you feel the Final cut was a missed opportunity?

I kind of feel what I am saying here is that the workprint scenes I mentioned keep the film in the same vein as the theatrical cut but extend the film in the same paranoid weird mood… But the Redux stuff does not really hurt and if anything give some levity until the the plantation sequence and longer films need levity. But yeah I think the plantation sequence is just too much of a departure.

Alienuncut1979 said:

Ronster said:

I was wondering if the acoustic instrumental version of “who wants to live forever” was intended for Rachel and connors extended goodbye scene? That would then be a reason for that music being written.

Maybe. Not sure. But I have updated my edit.

Would someone like to make a DVD cover for this release?

Could be for the extended ending?

It was made for a reason though do not know the answer unfortunately.

I was not aware of the extra Kurgun line in the church I will check it out. Did you try the cit music here?

Seems to me that it was a 2 hour slot was agreed running time. When factoring in the Lost deleted Kurgun fight in the office and a comedy nightclub scene with bedsoe coming to see conner and fasil in the club. If the material was available for those what would be swapped in or out?

I would say from this 70mm cut the Rachel scene is a complete certainty for inclusion as would be the extended fight scene at the end. I could however imagine the wrestling scenes and the US version has more extra wrestling in it. Would probably fall away in some way choice cuts. And The extended ending seems pretty lame but would have been good for extra Connery voiceover dialogue.

I think that would be Russell Mulachy cut to be honest had these 2 other scenes survived.

The lost Kurhun fight in the office had a lot going for it as the guy he fought was having issues of being immortal.I think it is in the Novel and there are stills for the scene. Also in the Novel was a detailed backstory for the Kurgen which would have been interesting juxtaposed against connors immortal history.

The nightclub scene was just a gag for levity it would seem.

Good work though I found the music over the extended fight intetesting.

I was wondering if the acoustic instrumental version of “who wants to live forever” was intended for Rachel and connors extended goodbye scene? That would then be a reason for that music being written.

The missing effects for Kurgun quickening killing Ramirez is another thing. The lightning element that strikes the rock is in Queen music video with black matte. The build up however is not I have 2 fan recreations of what might have been. Had effects got completed.

In one of the Star Tours II rides it has a Leia Hologram not suggesting you should use it but interestingly it does the same message I think but I think voiced by an actress. It starts with “I am Princess Leia of Alderaan” and I actually thought this would be really good inclusion more so for the audience. Just letting you know about it really. I ultimately decided against using it but I thought it was small yet signifficant and would have been a better more proper way to deliver a message to somone I thought.

Thank you Ryan I will leave one further thought. The place they detonate the atomics from in the script is called communication room.

Although for a communication room there is more scientific equipment and bottles and filters and things like more of a laboritory than anything else. This place would seem to be Dr Kynes Laboritory. That is what I think although I can not confirm such a thing but it may mean that Max Von Sydow may have had a scene here even if only when Thuffer Hawatt says “Kynes… Doctor Kynes”

Since we have no Palm Trees no sub tropical Conservatory in the palace and no plants in the sietch either that would seem to be the only last remaining shred of Teraforming plot that is shown although they are setting off Atomic bombs there.

I was thinking that might be that still image from the TV broadcast might be with the cave window in the cliff face. As Paul Gurney and Stilgar look out of a cave window over to the Palace. But I can’t be sure of this. It’s not obvious but it kind of links up. Not sure.

The Bluray deleted scenes use some random music.

For the extended fight scene would be very interesting to see how the music would play and how it was edited. I think the track is battle atop Silvercup.

If I remember correctly when one of the lit up letters crash into the flooded rooftop there is a water splash not found in the film also in the queen music video “gimme the prize” pretty meagur offering but it’s a small snippet.

I always wanted to do the extended battle scene at the end and do the sound effects for it but never got around to it. There is not a massive amount of missing music though. There is a track for Rachel and Connor saying goodbye not sure if it does the extended scene or not. There is some music for the church with Kurgen and Connor not used. And a few alternate music tracks for which are nothing that noteworthy.

Yeah It is on the bluescreen shot with him flying up or domething.

I think I recall “your future will be glorius” it is whatever is said there anyway. You can tell because it is exactly the same echo as his bathroom recording and also the tone and demeanor are a sure match.

The print came from a private collector source. He must have had it scanned as it is on the bluray release.

I think the 70mm version has the USA version animation effects so it might be worth asking willarob for his effort on that restoration. It is a shame they never shared that also. The bit where Kurgen loses his head also looks like uncensored version also. Looks way better.

There is also 2 quick snippets from the final quickening that where deleted from the original. The very brief shorts can be found in Highlander 3’s final quickening. One he is floating in the air and one he get’s hit by like lightning with his arms stretched out. When I say Brief they are very short.

The Final Dimension Version also features what would appear to be an attempt to actually do the missing effects for the connor recieving the prize instead of the paper mache head exploding. So it’s not a deleted shot but they decided to do the missing effect in another film and not totally the same animation style but fairly close. But it gives you an idea of what the intended vision was.

I have the expanded music soundtrack might help you. I am really got a lot to deal with right now though. I am just using my phone to post no computer at the moment.

I don’t think the audio is lost it is a case of them not allowed to share it for some reason perhaps music rights issues or something.

It would be good to see this vetsion however the ending looks pretty bad on scottish picnic party. I would probably go with everything else though in the cut. The deleted ending of Highlander 2 has the deleted Sean Connery voice over for the ending of the original film though. So I think some of that footage with the deleted connery monologue or even scottish highlands footage then cut back to theatrical version would be the way to go on the ending.

The real good scene is Connor and Rachel apparently whilst the extended fight seems good to me also.