sherlockpotter

RogueLeader said:

Don’t have anything to share yet, but working on the audio edit of Rey taking about her vision with Finn gave me the urge to work on Rey Nobody a little more.

I’m currently messing with the Force bond duel scene, which I think is the most difficult scene to alter, because you’re having to actually change the narrative somewhat, and not just cut lines.

I might have something to show sooner rather than later, but this scene is a real pain in the ass. Many of Kylo’s lines “echo” in the other channels, so even if you change/cut lines in the primary dialogue channel, you can still sort of hear them in the other channels. Which means you would have to basically replace the music, sound effects, and dialogue reverb in a few parts of that scene.

With that being said, I still think it’s doable, but if I share a test with y’all, it definitely will be a “test” and nowhere close to final. I’m curious how other people who have tried editing this scene have tackled this issue.

Hey RL, not sure how this is coming along, or what your new intention for the Kylo Quarter Duel even is, but I had a thought. Rather than replacing the dialogue with new lines, what if we just, ya know, cut most of the scene out? Kylo says, “Where are you?” They clash a couple of times. “You can’t hide from me.” Few more swings. Rey hits the Vader pedestal. “So that’s where you are.” Rey manages to shut down the connection. Kylo turns to the trooper, “She’s in my quarters, lock down the ship.”

Do we even need to explore her backstory, or her parents, or have any meaningful conversation here at all? All of the stuff relevant to this movie comes in the next scene anyway when he’s all like, “We’ll kill Palpatine together.”

In fact, I almost wonder if the Hanger Scene will play out even better this way. As it is, Kylo says, “I’m gonna be right there, Rey, and then we have stuff to talk about. Cool?” So then when they have their little face-off in the hanger, you’re just waiting for them to chat. On the other hand, if you make the Quarter Duel about just tracking Rey down, and end it with an ominous “There you are…” - and also consider that the last time they met on Pasanna, he tried to turn her into roadkill - when he appears in the next scene in person, the audience is waiting with baited breath for him to attack. But then…he starts talking? He’s suggesting they team up to kill Palpatine?? Holy shit, this was completely unexpected. What’s going to happen next?

Neerb said:

I think ideally, I’d like a v4 (the “end” seems to hit harder there)…

Burbin said:

I agree v5 is really good, the softened transition into “end” makes it flow much better…

Well, that’s not contradictory at all lol.

NeverarGreat said:

All of these attempts feel almost but not quite there. I think that it has to do with how he says the word ‘end’ as if it’s the final word of the sentence. The word needs a bit more attack and depth here in the middle of the sentence.

Funnily enough, this clip of “end” is originally from the end of a sentence, but I started working with it because the original line (where “end” was in the middle) had even less emphasis. There’s maybe one or two other instances that I could play with instead; I’ll see if anything can happen with those.

DrVibble said:

https://streamable.com/81qs12

First time listening to this: I think the only part that needs work is “am a”, it’s said pretty quickly and sounds just a little bit clippy. But the audio of the rest of the scene works great, and the line itself is a fantastic change

Sorry, missed this earlier. I know clarifying the “am” was something that Cap was working on (my version just used the “am” from the original line); “a” has been the elusive part of the whole thing though. It’s such a short, mushy sound in the first place - it tends to blur into whatever words are surrounding it, making a clean extraction difficult - and the original line reading is pretty quick already, so I don’t think there’s much that can be done in that regard. But I’ll at least try to smooth out the clippiness some more. Thanks for the feedback!

Sensed the End v5: https://streamable.com/y02l42

Thoughts?

Hal 9000 said:

Nah, the LUTs already in use are better, if I remember right.

Here’s two clips. The finished puppet show and conference room (complete with “Captain Hux”).

https://vimeo.com/589175076

https://vimeo.com/589175438

Agreed, skenera’s LUTs are way better than anything Disney has put out. And wow, I forgot how incredible that puppet show is. Brilliant, brilliant work.

I do agree with Jar Jar that “Captain-Hux” still feels a bit off though. I’d love to hear a version with just “Captain.”

EDIT: Regarding the stormtrooper lines, if that’s taken from my original submission, I did leave four out of the six audio channels to preserve as much background noise as possible. That said, Hal, if you’d like to remix it I won’t be offended. And if you need me to resend the WAV file with the lines, just let me know.

DZ, I did add one pant to cover up the removal of “[And] I’m,” so if that one specifically feels out of place I can definitely go in and change or remove it. If you’re worried about the panting throughout though…I dunno, would it be weird to see her breathing so heavily, if the sound was much softer? Because there’s no way to hide the fact that she definitely is breathing hard.

oviniboy said:

Hey, Sherlock, what about the “I’m a Jedi” line? Are you satisfied with the current version or still need some fixes? Anything we could help?

I was reasonably satisfied with the latest version (reposted below), although an extra set of ears would definitely be appreciated! Especially since it’s been a little while, and we’ll be able to listen to it fresh.

sherlockpotter said:

Did a little more smoothing out on “I” and “am a.” Is it any better?

Also, maybe I’ve watched this clip too many times, but what if Palps says, “I am all the Sith. You are nothing. A scavenger girl is no match for the power in me.” Sade, you’re the expert - did we try it that way already? Would it make any significant difference to the scene?

Hell if I know.

https://streamable.com/81qs12

I will also say that I know CaptainFaraday was trying to fiddle with it as well; but I’m not sure if he was able to make any more progress since he and I last spoke.

New attempt. Lots of clean up done, but it may still need some work, of course.

https://streamable.com/t22rsz

Jar Jar Bricks said:

I wonder if it would be possible to slice off the “forty” in “forty-two” when 3PO says that the celebration only occurs every 42 years. That way it would only be every 2 years, which is slightly more believable.

Yeah, I know it’s meant to be the difference between 2019 and 1977 (release year of Star Wars), but honestly that’s a really strange easter egg considering the fact that it no longer has any meaning in 2020+.

Yeah, I’d be down for that. Remove plot contrivance #11,646. I wonder if we could even just trim that line entirely (“Oh boy! It’s the Acky Acky Festival!” “Well, that’s lucky.”), or replace it with something else (“What is this?” ”I know what this is!” “Well, that’s lucky.” “It’s the Acky Acky Festival.”).

Had some time to fiddle with “Leia sensed the end” some more. Still needs some clean up, but…is this at least in the right direction?

https://streamable.com/mghfm0

Hal 9000 said:

Neerb said:

I don’t think it’s an issue. Luke’s journal was among the Jedi texts Rey took, the rest of which were ancient. No contradiction.

And Luke technically never said he didn’t read the books. More likely Luke read them at some point, but perhaps decades ago, and has not remained devotional.

I agree, although it’s a fair point. It feels slightly incongruent at first blush, but there were multiple “texts” in “that library.”

The most sacred place in Jedi history…housing the most important and holy of all texts…the last remnants of the once-great Jedi Order…

LUKE: “Goddamn, is this the only bookshelf on the whole stupid island? Where am I going to keep all of my stuff? In any of the dozens of huts around mine?”

You know when Merry says “We need some Holdo maneuvers,” and Finn has an ADR line about “That shot is one in a million”? Personally, I don’t hate that line; but I know that it’s been met with some criticism elsewhere. My headcanon explanation as to why the hyperspace ram was a one-off has been that you need a really big vessel to make it impactful, and the Rebellion and the Resistance are always scraping by with what they have. (I’ve seen “Why don’t they just launch hyperspace torpedos at the Death Star” as a complaint against TLJ; but I mean…would a bullet cause just as much destruction as a rocket launcher, even if they’re going at the same speed?) That would also explain why none of the tiny civilian crafts are able to do a ram on Exegol, but another ship was able to do it elsewhere.

My thought was to change Finn’s line from “That shot is one in a million” to “Our ships aren’t big enough.” Anyone have any idea where I could pull dialogue for that line though?

jadenkorr41 - love the idea, but I think there are still some masking issues right now, unfortunately. At 00:01, the sky above and below the ship line is two completely different colors (especially noticeable if you pause on the lightning strike); and at 00:03, you can tell that two different plates are sliding over one another. I’d love to see more if you can clean it up though!

Just thinking out loud here…can anything be done about the whole “Jedi texts” discrepancy? In TLJ, they establish that they are “The original Jedi texts…the last of the Jedi religion.” Luke even says that the whole tree thingy was built to house them; but then admits later to Yoda that he’s never even read them.

Come TROS, not only has Luke read them, but he’s apparently been using them as his personal journal, cataloguing his adventures? So, like…I dunno, that’s weird, right? Potentially, could the line be changed to:

REY: I know how to get to Exegol.
LEIA: Tell me.
REY: There are ciphers here I can’t read. But he said to get there, you need one of these. A Sith wayfinder. They’re compasses that lead the way to Exegol. To stop what we both know is coming… I need to finish what Luke started. Find Exegol. Find the Emperor.
LEIA: Piss off, Rey.

“Finish what Luke started” now referring to the general destruction of the Emperor/First Order, rather than specifically “The Quest…for the Magic Wayfinder!!”

(Hell, why would the original Jedi texts even discuss Sith Wayfinders anyway? You’re trying to establish a new religion; why would you lead your followers to the people diametrically opposed to your beliefs? But whatever.)

Sorry I haven’t been too involved lately. Life and whatnot. Hopefully I can get back into the game soon! Maybe even work on this idea if people are interested.

Hal 9000 said:

Sentence mixing it in my head, it doesn’t seem like it’d sound natural. There ought to be emphasis somewhere in the sentence, like “Leia told me she sensed the end of her Jedi path.”

This was my go at it:

sherlockpotter said:

https://streamable.com/ehphfh

DZ-330 said:

Master Lawdog said:

Because during the flashback where Luke was training her, the twins were still young, and it is very likely that Ben had not been born at that point. By having Leia end her Jedi training to focus on being a mother, it would make sense to lay down her lessons from Luke. It also makes it seem Ben chose to die rather than it being destined to be.

What if…

Luke: “It was the last night of her training. Leia told me that she had sensed the death of her son at the end of her Jedi path. She surrendered her saber to me and said that one day… it would be picked up again… by someone who would finish her journey. We’ll always be with you, but this is your fight.”

Leia quits being a Jedi, because as it has been explained numerous times, she never wanted to be one. Leia wanted to focus on politics and then dumped her son on Luke later on to train. What if we just make that line about Leia realizing that, being a Jedi is not for her, and someone else would eventually take her spot. In my opinion, it makes her taking on Rey as a trainee even stronger as she believes Rey would be her successor as a Jedi. Just food for thought!

I had suggested that a while back - I’m pretty sure I even did a mock-up of it - the last I heard Hal was on the fence about it though.

Hal, any thoughts? I can dig through my files and reupload it later if you want to see it again.

Hal 9000 said:

I think I’d prefer the default version of this project not to venture down the path of making her parents back into shitheads, but I see your point.

I mean, there’s another sticky point here that we’re all ignoring: If we want to go with a Rey Palpatine version, then the character arc/theme is “Your bloodline decides how good or evil you are,” which is not only weird as hell (why would morality be a genetic trait?), but it’s also tangentially explored by Kylo’s storyline. (Although I think that one works better because Kylo wants to embrace the Dark Side, unlike Rey.)

So the problem is, if you want to make Rey’s parents be good guys, that effectively negates the already ludicrous theme that Chris and J.J. are trying to explore. If your bloodline determines your morality, why is Rey’s dad a good guy when his dad is evil incarnate? And more importantly, if Rey comes from two good people, wouldn’t that mean she is genetically “good”? By the movie’s own logic, Rey’s parents being good means she doesn’t have to worry about being susceptible to the Dark Side at all.

So you can make a movie about how Rey is descended from a line of “shitheads,” and she has to break the cycle. Or, more powerfully imo, make a movie about how Rey is her own person, and she rises or falls on her own merits, not her gene pool. (Rey Nobody ftw!) What makes absolutely no thematic sense is to have Rey be descended from Palpatine, but also have her parents be good, kindly folks.

DZ-330 said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Ah, what a mess.

This should have been the main tagline for the film haha

Can we put this on the TROS poster? Please?

The trouble is, every line that Kylo says here is something to the effect of “you’ve just repressed your memory of them,” which, as Burbin so beautifully articulated, is unbelievably stupid. You’d have to change the whole conversation to undo the implications of that; and at that point, we might as well wait until Rey Nobody.

Which…actually begs a question… RogueLeader said that he had started working on this scene for Rey Nobody a while back. Depending on his vision for this scene - what it actually says for the story - could we just “Rey Nobody” this one scene, and maintain the Palpatine connection for the rest of it?

When you think about it, there are two separate, big (subjective) flaws with how they did Rey Palpatine - the first is that it means she has super blood that makes her special, rather than being special due to her own strength; but the second is that they decided to make Rey’s parents lovely, self-sacrificial folks. The two don’t necessarily have to be related. You could say that Rey’s grandpappy was Palps, without changing the fact that her parents were awful people who abandoned her. (Maybe the audience would assume the Sith like to abandon their children. Because they’re EVIL.)

So maybe we could replace this scene to avoid referencing her parents. Keep the hangar reveal “You…are a Palpatine.” And then cut Rey’s one line in the end that “My parents were strong.” It keeps the Palpatine ancestry, and it doesn’t explicitly negate either TLJ canon or TROS canon as far as her parents are concerned. For Rey Nobody then, you’d just have to also redub the Hangar scene and some of Palpy’s dialogue on Exegol, but we’d already be halfway there.

That’s a good point too - that this entire conversation is likely going to be changed in Rey Nobody to avoid talking about her parents. RogueLeader, I know you’re still probably working on that, but what do you think? In what sort of direction are you planning on taking it?

For the Rey Palpatine cut…I’m not so fussed about him saying “You remember more than you say.” If that concept is the problem, “I’ve been in your head” has essentially the same meaning. “Search your memories,” “Remember them”…it all comes down to saying Rey does remember her parents. To fully preserve Rey not having heroic memories of them in the last movie, you’d have to rewrite this entire scene anyway.

For what it’s worth, I don’t think Rey having repressed memories of her parents really undoes the TLJ revelation any more than does retconning her parents in the first place - at that point, the thematic poignancy is already ruined.

TestingOutTheTest said:

@DrVibble Regarding your review. At one point you mention drama about Lucasfilm and Kennedy. You better not be referring to those false “civil war” rumors from Doomcock…

“You['d] better not be,” followed by an ominous ellipsis? What the heck? Am I the only one reading this as a threat? DrVibble took the time to write out a very thorough and kind review, and that’s your response? What’s your problem?

Hey mods, is making vague threats against other users enough to get Testing kicked off this thread? Please?

Jar Jar Bricks said:

DrVibble said:

Kylo’s altered dialogue to “You were right.” definitely helped in terms of continuity and logic, but though it’s close enough to pass for Kylo’s voice on its own, next to his real masked voice it’s pretty clear that it sounds different; the accent doesn’t quite match, and it feels more flat. Are there any plans to retouch this line for future versions?

Nice review here! I made a mock-up of what is, in my opinion, a more organic line in this scene a while back. I’m glad to hear that even for a first-time viewer this line sounds off. Here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcsLeRB5Uyk

I don’t remember seeing this before. I like the idea though! You’d just need to add more echo and reverb to the new line to make it match the rest of the dialogue.

Cinefy said:

Theres a removed line featured in the TROS D23 Special Look, where Palpatine tells Rey “You’re journey, nears It’s end”. Any ideas where it could have possibly fit in the film. Was initially thinking it could be implemented during Rey’s vision while training in the jungle as a subtle echo of his voice calling out to her.

timestamp [1:31]
Reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n1T3HxHd7Y

Maybe this could be used in the Rey Nobody version to replace “For my granddaughter to come home”? She walks in, hears Palps behind her: “Long have I waited. [And now] your journey nears its end. You will take the throne.” It would just depend on getting a clean enough extraction of the line.

Depends on what tense we want to use, I suppose. Present Simple - “He travels” - or present perfect - “He has traveled.”

I think “he journeys” would sound fine, or “he has arrived” would also work. And there was one other thing in the crawl…”by silencing their enemies” or something like that? I don’t think it needs anything else.

I still go back and forth on “chasing a hidden power that has been rising in the shadows” or whatever, just to make Kylo’s intentions more vague and mysterious. But that’s a really tiny nitpick.

Master Lawdog said:

Is it decided that the Sith scream used in the trailer for Revenge of the Sith will be used when Palpatine explodes at the end? Sherlock Potter did the mock-up a while back.

Just to avoid taking undeserved credit: I did not work on the Sith scream idea.

That was a safe bet though, considering how many mockups I do submit!

I kind of agree with Burbin about not needing the “You’re just a clone” line, but not necessarily for the same reasons. For me, it goes back to the old axiom “show, don’t tell.” We already see the Palpatine clones in the vat, so I don’t think it’s wholly necessary to spell it out for the audience on top of that. But this film already has a problem with clunky, unnecessary exposition, so whatever.

If the AI works, it would be fine to include it. Sure, cool. But I don’t think it’s necessary at all. (Mainly thanks to poppa’s incredible VFX work.)

DrVibble said:

I know you’re in the process of changing Rey’s climactic line to “And I… am a Jedi.”, but I had an alternative idea for that line a while ago that I thought would be appropriate to share here:

Would “And we… are all the Jedi.” be plausible?

Considering your (incredibly awesome) addition of the four Force Ghosts assisting Rey, this change could really solidify the unity Rey has achieved with the rest of the past Jedi, truly making it ALL of them who overcome a true embodiment of the ethics of the Light and Dark sides, as well as further concluding the film’s through-line about “There are more of us”, which is also helped by sherlockpotter’s excellent redo of the Zorii-Poe convo. It would also make it less directly similar to the “I am Iron Man” exchange from Avengers: Endgame.

Hey, I appreciate the feedback! (And we’re still working on that Kijimi audio, so stay tuned for that!)

Your change makes a lot of sense from the perspective of enhancing Rey’s connection with the past Jedi; but one of the intentions with the line change was to make it more about Rey’s personal journey, whereas the “past Jedi” thing is only mentioned once or twice in the film.

DrVibble said:

I imagined as a sort of one-up over Palpatine…

Funnily enough, this is one of the reasons I suggested changing the line in the first place; because “Nu-uh, I’m more powerful than you!!” - which was my main takeaway from “I’m all the Sith, I’m all the Jedi” - isn’t super interesting to me from a character perspective. Whereas, “I am a Jedi” has two meanings to me:

• Firstly, in the context of this film, where she’s been struggling to resist the Dark Side. Now, “I am a Jedi” means that she has been able to overcome that seduction, and has retained her goodness. It culminates her arc.

• Secondly, in the context of the Sequel Trilogy as a whole, it encompasses her journey from lowly scavenger to noble Jedi - which is beautifully portrayed by sade1212’s seamless rearrangement of Palpatine’s dialogue:

“A scavenger girl is no match for the power in me.”

“I am a Jedi.”

Whelp…I tried incorporating the LEGO Holiday Special audio; and unfortunately, I don’t think it works. There’s a very clear divide between the two voices, I think, when they’re placed side by side like that. I’ve posted the audio (isolated from the center channel) here, for both LEGO Rey’s line and Human Rey’s original line, in case anyone else wants to take a stab at it:

https://mega.nz/file/Xl0U3ApT#EKYZgapWB33OgakJ694oBUxhC4Ys4aHyfboQT49v4GU

Also, regarding the suggestion of using Battlefront audio, I went through that a while back looking for instances of Rey saying “I am a,” but I didn’t find anything that worked. The examples I found were too rushed, so the different sounds just mushed together and I wasn’t able to split them up cleanly.

Sooo…unless anyone else has other ideas for supplementing the audio, I’ll just repost my latest test below. You know, real casual-like…

sherlockpotter said:

Did a little more smoothing out on “I” and “am a.” Is it any better?

Also, maybe I’ve watched this clip too many times, but what if Palps says, “I am all the Sith. You are nothing. A scavenger girl is no match for the power in me.” Sade, you’re the expert - did we try it that way already? Would it make any significant difference to the scene?

Hell if I know.

https://streamable.com/81qs12