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jarbear

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28-Jul-2021
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Post
#1431075
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

While I am personally not a fan of the way the sequels did a “Ummm … we want to revert back to the force not being balanced … so Rey has to do it instead of Anakin … so yeah! It was kinda balanced for just a little bit, so just forget about the whole prophecy thing and what the PT brought up in general” (Again, just my personal view)

If it was possible, a fun twist on things is if Anakin’s voice said “Rey, finish what I started” or something on those lines. It would have been a call back/twist to Kylo’s version of finishing what Vader started … and here Rey is finishing what Anakin started (Getting rid of Palps, AKA balancing the force).

Post
#1430891
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

BrotherOfSasquatch said:

Just got to say, I’m really glad a lot of you guys are ok with how the new Rey line sounds. I know personally speaking, I have a hard time seeing the “wrongness” in some edits or I just shrug it off. There’s been multiple times where I’ve seen a mockup on here and I think to myself “Oh, that’s actually pretty good/passable! It could be used in the movie.” But then, I see it get picked apart and start to understand that it actually really wasn’t up to snuff.

Anyways, this is just my long winded way of saying that I’m glad we’re seemingly moving forward with the line change now.

I totally get what you mean and I do agree for the “base” edit things sound be as flawless as possible. With people doing their own thing after that, then go for it. SO I admit for me, this is a case that I truly don’t see the issue because I don’t watch this movie … so for a personal edit after this I would use one of these changes since I can’t see it. ahaha!

Post
#1430866
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

TestingOutTheTest said:

I never said we saw the vision itself on Pasaana. I said that Rey describes to Finn that she experienced the vision when touching the dagger.

TestingOutTheTest said:

I just want to address something about the pitched edit of removing the mention of Rey having a vision of both herself and Kylo Ren on the Sith throne. She didn’t have that specific vision at the beginning of the movie, she only had it when she touched the dagger on Pasaana.

Im confused with this whole Vision that happened on Pasanna but didn’t happen on Pasanna point of yours. Im really genially confused with your point. There is NO second vision shown or a mention that she had another/seperate one that was shown. It is a much better idea to remove the whole 2 on the throne scene when we have a visual vision that specifically does not show it.

Post
#1430710
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

Burbin said:

Also I really like changing Kylo’s line to “we can stop Palpatine” -

sherlockpotter said:

So I made a quick mockup. Is it worth trying to iron out the new line? https://streamable.com/4tms6i

It actually makes it sound like Kylo is against him, against the Sith (which is what we want). We’re told killing Palpatine results in Sith spirit transfer, and we learn later Palpatine wants to be killed, so saying “we’ll kill him” doesn’t explicitly mean he’s working against him. Changing this line would avoid any confusion, it makes it very clear Kylo doesn’t want to play into Palpatine’s hands, he wants to stop whatever he’s planning (and take over his fleet).

It’s also a more seductive way to present it to Rey, who set out on her mission “to stop what we both know is coming…”. It makes it sound almost reasonable to join forces with the Supreme Leader to stop the return of the Sith, instead of the original’s “let’s become super evil together, you know what you need to do”.

Hard yes.

Post
#1430708
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

RogueLeader said:

TestingOutTheTest said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

TestingOutTheTest said:

I just want to address something about the pitched edit of removing the mention of Rey having a vision of both herself and Kylo Ren on the Sith throne. She didn’t have that specific vision at the beginning of the movie, she only had it when she touched the dagger on Pasaana.

It’s not shown on screen, and therefore is irrelevant. When Rey says she had a vision, the audience instantly should think of the one from the beginning of the movie since, ya know, it was shown. In fact, there is no proof that they ever recorded footage of both Rey and Kylo on the throne. So tbh, I’m not even sure what they were smoking when they wrote that line for Rey.

By that logic, Luke’s piloting experiences pre-ANH are irrelevant because they aren’t shown to us.

But we are never shown anything that contradicts that, like Luke being reckless and crashing his skyhopper in Beggar’s Canyon. But we actually see Rey on the throne alone, with Kylo Ren nowhere in sight. We literally just see Rey on the throne by herself… we actually don’t see Kylo Ren on any throne in this movie, despite him being Supreme Leader of the galaxy. Just because something might be “inferred” doesn’t mean it is good storytelling, or cinema for that matter.

Agreed. Even if it was meant to be on the lines “oh, I had ANOTHER vision” … that is just bad film making. Why show one vision, and then talk about another one? … it either comes off as a mistake (after-affect of re-writes, etc.) OR simply poor writing (show one thing on screen, but talk about something else that’s not seen AND is different)

Comparing to Luke and piloting comments, that has nothing to contradict that, is comparing apples to chairs.

Post
#1430664
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

I understand your view on it and Kylo’s thing can go to the “movie logic” philosophy, which I do support leaning on movie logic. And those are good points too about her parents as motivation. It’s one of those things that “on the other hand” he has “new” knowledge at the beginning of the movie where he didn’t on the original cut. Palpy transfer, so outright killing him is not a real option … which fortunately with Jonh’s The Forcey Boys is that answer.

I think i’ll personally use that direction, but that’s the beauty of this, we got a base and we can make whatever changes we need later. All in all, the changes thus far, and new things, are VAST improvements.

Post
#1430656
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

I thought of a connection and a mental/logical/reasoning/insert-other-word/etc. if Hal you are good with adjusting Kylo’s line in the hanger to not explicitly say “kill Palpatine together” and more of “Let’s stop him together.”

So for Ascendant, we know Palps tells Kylo “Kill me and I transfer to you yo.”

So Kylo doesn’t want to do this, or at least is hesitant to it since, well, he has a problem. He wants to remove Palp as an adversary, but how? Also, I want myself some Rey-ness, maybe with our Dyadness, we can do something about it. Anyway, I’ll need to ponder on this.

So fast forward to the hanger. Kylo still has his “for sure goal” is to have Rey on his side. So let’s try to convince her that together, we can stop the Sith! We got Dyad power! How exactly do we do this? Well, let’s take this one step at a time. We got that ace up our sleeve with the Dyadness, maybe we can do something with that.

That doesn’t work, she rejects him again.

So now on the DSII, they have their duel, he gets stabbed, Mom dies … and get healed. He is finally getting drawn back to the light. But here is the problem, what can he do? Cant just kill Palpy since … he transfers, so it is a lose lose situation.

Then Han appears. Remember Han’s personality/style? Just do it and don’t think about it. Think back to TFA, the most recent thing about going to Starkiller base. We know he doesn’t plan things out fully, just goes with it. So with that pep talk and Kylo going back to Ben SOLO … aka, has some of dad’s personality … he knows he needs to stop Rey from getting Palpatined. That’s the immediate thing. What do you do after that? Well … we are winging it … so don’t give me the odds.

So you have Ben going there to STOP Rey from falling to Palpy’s trap. What to do after that? He is not sure.

BUT! Now with the Chosen Jonh who gave us the Force Ghosts at the end … the movie has an explanation on how to stop Palpy’s transfer. They do it. But needs Rey to face Palpatine and ACCEPTS SHE IS A JEDI. (Which is why I LOVE Sherlock’s change with Rey’s response. She finally accepts it. She finally opens herself to it and TRULY accepts her responsibility, as a Jedi. I think Ben’s redemption was the final push for her to “go all in” since it was something more tangible she sees.) It opens the way for Four Force Team. Everyone has their part and importance in the final scene. It is not about just the ONE person to stop Palpatine, it’s everyone … as the series tells us … it’s not just about the one, but the some.

This ends my terribly written Ted talk.

(Personally I will adjust my edit to remove all the Sith … and just focus on Palpatine … he figured it out finally and it fits, in my opinion, the cannon and what was shown/told us from the movies before. Either way people want it, the above still fits whatever direction.)

Post
#1430642
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

I really like what Sherlock did, just good work.

And to everyone, the ideas, samples, mock ups, etc etc has been great and just wow.

Fortunately, having some finished or usable items can be shared for people to do their own tweaks to Hal’s base is such a great thing. Just good stuff man.

Edit: not sure it’s possible, although I’m the Sherlock route of removing the all sith part, I would think it could help extend it and be a fall back to ROTS where he would say “I am the sith” … like he did about the senate. I know Hal removed it mainly for the better palpy mace exchange which I agree with. (I miss it though, 😂)

Anyway just random thoughts. I may have more for later.

Post
#1430621
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

sherlockpotter said:

Alright, this may be stupid, but something is still nagging me about “We’ll kill him together.” It’s a tiny nag, admittedly - I think it’s because “We WILL kill him” comes across less like Kylo is imploring her to help him end the Sith, and more like, “Oh boy, here we go killing again!” It’s like Kylo cares more about killing this guy than he does about stopping the Sith. Maybe it’s just the way Adam Driver delivers the line? (Emphasis on “Kill” instead of “We’ll”?) I know, I know, it’s a subtle connotative difference; but it’s gnawing at me.

Plus, “We WILL do this” doesn’t really leave open any other choices for Rey, which - to me - deflates the tension of the moment considerably. “Of course Kylo’s wrong. She’s not going to start murdering people with him!” Rather than, “Oh gosh, Kylo has a point. What’s Rey going to do?”

So I made a quick mockup. Is it worth trying to iron out the new line? https://streamable.com/4tms6i

(Between this, “Become a Dyad,” and the eventual Rey Nobody replacement, we’re just going to change all of Kylo’s dialogue in this scene, aren’t we? Lol.)

EDIT: I also did a bit more work on this thingy: https://streamable.com/ffimpr

Blended out Palp’s Theme (I hope) a little bit better, cleaned up the word “a”, added a clip of Rey panting to cover up the omission of “and,” and also trimmed down the dramatic pause before she finishes her line (to help fudge the lip sync). Any better? The video cut on Rey’s line could be a little tighter and overlap the line on her catching the second saber more; I’m just worried about carving too deeply into the closeup shot.

Yes please. I like the change to the hanger scene line in the sense that, probably at this moment, Kylo doesn’t have a “plan” to deal with Palpatine’s “transfer plan” … but for sure he wants Rey to help him deal with Palpy. So by having the focus on “Join me and we can stop him” it works for both Kylo’s mindset (currently with this edit since Palps tells him about his transfer thing) and it would at least be a “reasonable” to try to sway Rey.

Also, YES PLEASE to the Palpy Rey scene. IT WORKS. The over confident Palpy, taunts Rey about her being a simple scavenger and Rey’s response … she now has overcome everything and perfectly responds, in essence “no, I am a JEDI ya wrinkly nerf herder!”

Post
#1430491
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

Hal 9000 said:

DZ-330 said:

RogueLeader said:

I couldn’t find it so I did it myself real quick (maybe I did this on my own originally…)

https://streamable.com/2v2dd0

“And” being cut might be noticeable to some who are aware of the change, but I honestly believe your hypothetical first time viewer, or people who just haven’t seen the movie since release, wouldn’t even notice this change. I moved “Me” up a few frames earlier, and I think the slight shift helps sell it as well.

I like how Finn assumes it’s Ren with such conviction, only to be left not knowing what to say after Rey says it was her. I think this is the simplest way to handle it.

Cross-posting from the general thread, Hal would you consider this for a change in V2?

Hmmm… interesting, indeed. I guess the intention of the scene originally is to let Rey fear joining Kylo on the throne, which ties into his offer later and explains her violent response in trying to kill him on the DSII. Making this scene all about her rather than her and Ren would help the climax a little. Unless their teaming up is viewable as a fulfillment of this fear in an inverted way.

Idk, I guess it’s all right with me, but has anyone dissented?

I don’t disagree with those points. However, I have not seen any negative. For me, it adds more weight to the end because, the vision would now seems more “real” since it’s about HER taking the throne, not her and Kylo … since it’s just her alone with Palps. The theme of her “being alone” is still present in her mind.

Plus, for Ben/Kylo aspect of it … he has not interest in the Past … which the “Sith” would be part of so why does he care about the throne anyway? (Also, the last two movies really made it clear he wasn’t sith … so why all the sudden does it matter?) He’s doing his own thing … so it makes the vision make more sense thematically too.

A different point, I am curious about a merger between Jar Jar’s and RogueLeader’s hanger scene that adjusts Kylo’s dialogue a little to that would further help to bridge this point in that he does not talk about both of them on the throne … but just stopping palpatine/putting him in a nursing home/whatever. If Kylo knows the “plan” on Palps anyway, why would he want Rey to kill Palpatine … if he transfer to her … which is not what he wants … so why? Why not just simply be “stop palpatine” or whatever. Simple and would be EXACTLY what Kylo wants. Have her join him and stop Palpatine.

EDIT: Also, thinking more about the idea of the hanger scene … if achievable to remove the whole “take the throne together,” remember, Kylo at this point has two goals: Have Rey join him to rule the galaxy and remove his enemies, aka the resistance and palpatine. So for the first part, he needs to seduce Rey in a sense. Now … Rey has been training as a Jedi, aka the good guy, why try to seduce her in the lines of “Oh hey, your bad, so lets just go full on bad, take the throne together and become Sith.” That is a blunt way of doing it. But by changing his dialogue more on the lines of “Yeah you are bad, but Palpatine is worse, so let’s stop him together because of our dyadness.” So by leaving out the throne topic of the two of them to literally become QUEEN OF THE SITH BADDIES, it is more on the lines of “Hey, we can stop the REAL bad guy together.”

Post
#1430463
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

For the topic about the suns, etc, I agree with Hal’s assessment: Match it to what Star Wars has shown. If it matches the style, then it’s fine.

As for the line RogueLeader showed, it’s flawless and just makes sense. I admit I have not watched Hal’s V1 nor the original movie in such a long time … I noticed nothing. So in the eyes of a first time viewer … there’s nothing that sticks out. I am a fan of it and just makes sense to do.

Post
#1430387
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

@sherlock I’m really picky about things, but this works for me. I’ve watched it several times and even just listened to the audio. The dialogue is fine to me and sounds so much more natural and fits better than the original. To me at least.

I do agree the music cue needs some more work and needs some fine tuning. Maybe just be the empires thing up to the “music pause” that’s already there may be an idea to try?

EDIT: I am specifically talking about the first one since to me, if I should that to my wife, she wouldn’t notice any difference and it works. The music just needs a little tuning, but the dialogue is fine to me.