jarbear

poppasketti said:

Darth Muffy said:

What I took out of RoS which I really liked the idea of was how it explained Palpatines “stike me down” lines both in RoS and return of the jedi. I like to think that meant that if Luke struck him down in return of the jedi with anger he would of possessed Luke the same way Rey would of been possessed if she stuck him down in RoS through the sith ritual.

This is actually something I don’t like about TRoS. The literal nature of a possible spirit transfer being the real motivation behind one of the crucial moments of the original trilogy cheapens the moral implications for me. In Return of the Jedi, I always thought Palpatine was saying that anger and hatred were corrupting and destructive forces, and that even if Palpatine were to die, he still would have won by corrupting Luke. I realize that doesn’t literally make a ton of sense given Palpatine’s ambition and ruling an empire, but it makes sense in the context of the morality tale that the original trilogy was. This added motivation means there’s a reason for Luke to resist temptation other than showing poise and maturity in the face of evil.

My man.

Also was part of palpable plan: Luke tries to kill him, Vader would protect and start duel. If Vader wins, Luke threat done. If Luke won, he could manipulate him since he started the dark path. So simple.

I hate the sith transfer thing. No wonder Lucas didn’t go to the opening. Lol.

Icecream2448 said:

George can be a little silly with his choices, and ret-cons were a staple between the OT and PT.

I don’t disagree there are silly things, no doubt about it and things I don’t like, but it’s pretty simple why things don’t and won’t ever really jive. That’s all.

Lol, I think everyone can discuss this in circles and it will never jibe when connecting to the series as a whole since George Lucas was clear: Sith don’t conquer death, only the Jedi could. So trying to make this jive with what GL has built and shown with what Disney has done simply cannot connect the dots.

OF course if people like the direction of the whole … Sith living on thing … that’s fine and all. Not going to say “You cannot like this!” But do understand there isn’t a way to make a solid connection with what was built prior to the movie, let alone before the sequels, since it goes against what George, the creator of the Star War Universe, foresaw and explained.

Anyway, good luck on the computer stuff Hal, you can do it!

Hal 9000 said:

But then why does Palpatine seem to gloat as he describes Darth Plagueis not being able to save himself from being killed? Shouldn’t he just be Plagueis?

Palps: Take this! (Slices Plagueis)
Palps: Ouch!

I think you know the answer Hal, so does George Lucas when it comes to this whole topic. (Check out Clone Wars deleted scenes about the Mortis Arc.)

Hal 9000 said:

Invisible lightning.

Yes! And it will be known as Force Gravity as the ships are “pulled down.” New OP power. Lol.

Hal 9000 said:

I don’t plan to remove voices there. Given that the scene doesn’t seem to adhere to the ‘Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, and Yoda are the only ones to learn how to be immortal’ idea, it’d be weird to only hear from Jedi from this series that span 1/1000th of the Jedi’s history. Especially since at least a few would not mean anything in particular to Rey.

I’m assuming that unknown voices would be interpreted as being random other Jedi from the past.

That’s fair, even if the audience has no idea of the voices they assume its all these random pass Jedi’s since she wants to try and communicate with them.

How the computer stuff going for ya?

omnimuffin said:

jarbear said:

Not sure if Hal you care about this, but I certainly would like to remove all the “random” voices during that “Jedi chatter” scene and not specifically for canon reasons.

Fan edits do not need to follow cannon since … well, any change to a movie breaks the cannon anyway, but for the audience watching the movies and hearing a bunch of “random” voices that were not heard in the previous movies is jarring … to me at least thinking of the “average” movie watcher going from Episode 1 to 9.

(I agree with the others here about not having the other Jedi voices in that scene since … pre disneyified “canon” that only a couple of Jedi were able to do so via special training that was explicitly mentioned in Revenge of the Sith … but Disney already broke that logic/canon with Palps. Sith cannot live on prior to Disney… which is why Plagius was trying to find a way to reverse dying and live on but was cut short by Palps. Plus, George Lucus explicitly said Sith were not able to obtain it, just the Jedi via their absolute selflessness which made it ironic the Sith who wanted to live forever could never obtain it via the dark side … only the light side for the side who do not care about themselves. But we know what happened, RJ decided “Hey, Sith live on too! They just keep going to the next body” which then kills the whole narrative of Revenge of the Sith. That concludes my TED talk.)

Wait, why are you blaming Rian Johnson for that? Rian Johnson didn’t do that, lol. Rian Johnson was not involved in bringing back Palpatine, lol.

On the subject: Sith can’t persist as bodyless spirits, but they can persist if bound to objects or host bodies (and host bodies is something literally only Palpatine has ever achieved, and only through what he’d learned from Plaguis before turning on him), though it’s an extremely unpleasant ‘existence’.

Anyway, there’s a difference between reaching into the netherworld of the force and making brief contact with old friends, long gone, than a ghost manifesting in the material world, a la what Obi-Wan, Yoda, and eventually Luke and Leia learned.

Meant jj, my bad. But still stand by my comment since jj didn’t watch previous Star Wars stuff.

Not sure if Hal you care about this, but I certainly would like to remove all the “random” voices during that “Jedi chatter” scene and not specifically for canon reasons.

Fan edits do not need to follow cannon since … well, any change to a movie breaks the cannon anyway, but for the audience watching the movies and hearing a bunch of “random” voices that were not heard in the previous movies is jarring … to me at least thinking of the “average” movie watcher going from Episode 1 to 9.

(I agree with the others here about not having the other Jedi voices in that scene since … pre disneyified “canon” that only a couple of Jedi were able to do so via special training that was explicitly mentioned in Revenge of the Sith … but Disney already broke that logic/canon with Palps. Sith cannot live on prior to Disney… which is why Plagius was trying to find a way to reverse dying and live on but was cut short by Palps. Plus, George Lucus explicitly said Sith were not able to obtain it, just the Jedi via their absolute selflessness which made it ironic the Sith who wanted to live forever could never obtain it via the dark side … only the light side for the side who do not care about themselves. But we know what happened, RJ decided “Hey, Sith live on too! They just keep going to the next body” which then kills the whole narrative of Revenge of the Sith. That concludes my TED talk.)

I think this lightning discussion is probably more suited for the redux thread.

Hey Hal, hope it will all work out with your computer issues, I just read through things and was so glad you got the support so quickly! Good luck with it all. I’ll input however I can to assist.

Also, I don’t think the red lighting is a good idea. Causes more confusion than anything for the audience … especially if you watch the entire trilogy lighting has stayed consistent.

On a personal opinion on this movie, and the entire trilogy, the viewer shouldn’t have to rely on outside sources from the movie to explain either significant changes or plot lines … the movies should be pretty self contained.

Wow Hal, talk about a stressful time with that.

Export stuff like it’s hot.

Hal 9000 said:

https://vimeo.com/461543673

Here is the shot with visuals and sound lid in. what do you think?

Fortunately the line doesn’t feel like a cut off, it just has a kind of awkward … pause between Poe’s line and the person that says “For Skywalker.” I would almost try to add someone to say “roger” or something to fill that gap and then the “for Skywalker.”

Had to come back to this and look at the images again. This looks so, so promising.

Oh, yeah that still works. Thanks for the clarification!

For the scene above, this is to follow immediately after the Kylo and Palps conversation right? It does make it a nicer transition than just him talking with the crew, it works like a semi-transition scene. Just a little touch up with the color I think and it should be ok.

StarkillerAG said:

Hal 9000 said:

Even as I type, I had to skim through the film to remind myself that the Kylo-Palpatine conversation had been moved from heading to Endor. And it introduced a continuity error I don’t believe anyone picked up on until you did.

Perhaps the simplest fix would be to replace or remove the line, “I know where she’s going.”

But that’s still true, isn’t it? Now, it refers to the Knights of Ren tracking them through hyperspace. I actually thought that was a really clever way to repurpose that line.

Since he is helmeted during that scene, it does give some wiggle room. If possible to splice some lines, he could say something "My Knights are tracking them/her|My Knights will know| etc.

Hal 9000 said:

Also, who has a good pre-hyperspace jump sound for the ice wall moment? I haven’t found the right one yet.

Any sounds on pond5 that works? If there is a sound that works I’ll purchase it.

+1 to that rationale.

Maybe take the words You and Pull and combine them in a sense, so its more of the “ull” sound, so it has the same “timing” as the original You word?

I think the issue is the speed of it, since you are trying to add a line in between his current dialogue. It’s tough since I do hear a sound, kind of like a “uh” sound, but its so fast it makes it kind of jarring since he is making a quick sound/word that comes out so fast in comparison to the rest of his delivery.

I agree that replacing that line “you have his power” would be helpful for the scene since it does still somewhat refers to a connection between her and palps since it specifies “his” power.

EDIT: rewatching it, the line “have his power” may still work. If you are using Hal’s base, the beginning of the movie has changed where Palps tells Kylo about HIS end game … get struck down and him and other Sith pass on to the “striker.” So sure, that line and knowledge Kylo has makes sense.

So because of that logic, it can work. I guess the only minor issue with that … is now Rey has knowledge that if she strikes down Palps, she “gets” his power. I don’t think she should have that knowledge, or thinking, when she confronts palps. Though we the audience knows his “plans,” Rey should go in blind without any of that part information.

Granted that is somewhat minor, but I admit after watching it again and I am assuming this will use Hal’s edit as a base with the change in the beginning, it can work. But it kind of takes away the “surprise” for Rey at the end.

I apologize, I am not trying to turn this into a discussion, but I admit I ranted. I came up with an idea and the rational for it. I am not saying it’s my way or the high way, just giving an idea, discuss it, and move along for editing reasons. I certainly can remove my dislike for the movies, but I still like to at least give ideas for editing purposes for an attempt of a Rey nobody addition.

My argument is not her USING dark side stuff, but the concept of her “turning bad” or joining the dark does not track. She doesn’t have any motivation for it. What would draw her from JOINING it. I am not talking about use of it, since well, she can use it no problem. She already has the power. What’s the temptation to JOINING the baddies?

Leaving that part out and just sticking to the vision of her on the throne keeps it simple without trying to tell the audience “Yep, we are again saying she is tempted, although without any real reason, but for the sake of the story we need to keep poking the bear” So instead, we wonder, like her, “Why would I be on the throne? I don’t want to join that side!” It is a mini mystery until the final showdown. And thus later during the confrontation with Palps … we get the “answer” to that vision. It’s not because she WANTS to join the dark side or has a desire to, but she kind of HAS to in order to stop him. Literally.

That’s what my thought is on it, or a suggestion if that makes any sense. We don’t see any real temptation for her to JOIN the dark side, JOIN the baddies, since she already has the power and doesn’t really have any “skin in the game” to be tempted for it. (Anakin joined up with Palps, the sith, since he wanted the power to save Padme. He went all in. Luke was not so blatant like Anakin in regards to “joining the dark side/bad guys”, but his father was on the Dark side and tried to tempt Luke after he lost to join him because A.) Join me or die and B.) Stop the Emperor and rule as Father and Son. Not sure how tempting the later part was, but there is at least some “skin” in the game since we are talking about his father that would stir some emotions or whatever … could argue if he was part of the rule he could change the empire … but mainly it was a life or death choice was the “temptation.”)

Although I vented, I was being constructive with the suggestion of removing parts of Kylo doing any “dark side temptations” and just focus on her and the throne vision/talk since there really isn’t much real temptation for her character.

I’ll back peddle the sequel rants, but I was giving a suggestion about it. So let’s not play the ignoring the suggestion part and attack me aspect of it thanks.

Thanks for fixing that! Much needed!