Hasn’t Hal even said he’s been conflicted with the implications between the two films, with Mind Bridge, Palps and Snoke and all? Of course trying to figure out whatever means to try to either rectify it, or go at it at every feasible angle takes time.
This … kinda makes me mad.
The end of a Saga, the last movie of a “connected” series (9 movies in total) should answer questions at the end … not leave more questions…
Intersting … Oye. What a mess. It could have been easily cleared up if Kylo elaborated just a sentence or two about it when he revealed the “dyad stuff.” Like, something on the lines of “When Snoke/Palpy linked our minds, they unknowingly awoken/something something/ our dyadness and have no idea what we can do” or something on those lines.
Sigh.
Especially if the Skype calls were not part of it … but can move physical things in space … because … their minds linked? Like if I am connected to a friend on the phone from my house to his, he can “hand me” his pen … because you know … we are connected.
Wouldn’t that have been something if it was/could/possible/insert-other-word/ to “is it you?”
Same way Palps anticipated Luke with Vader … But I understand that question.
These movies … oye.
Oh, I remember now. If Palpatine knows they have a dyad, it shouldn’t matter how powerful it is, he should realize that he could potentially drain it and would want Rey brought to him alive by Kylo. So yeah, maybe not a good idea to remove those lines.
God, what a mess. I need a break lmfao.
Yeah, was about to say something about that, kinda goes against his plan, it was a surprise to him and used that instead, which was a much better option.
So yeah … still thinking, at the moment, to remove Snoke’s line in TLJ.
You can keep Kylo’s line, to reinforce Palpy has no idea, until the end.
Also thinking, Palps doesn’t always knows or senses everything. Heck, in ROTJ Vader sensed Luke was looking for him and Palps responded he didn’t feel that. It could have been a lie, but let’s take it to face value. He is not all knowing or sensing. He can do a lot, but not everything.
I definitely want to remove the Snoke line for sure now. Lol.
The twist would have been fine … if it all makes sense and is connected. Lol.
I’d probably now am motivated to remove the “bridge mind” aspect just to help clear out the mess with Bridge Minds … Dyad … etc. etc. with iMovie on the TLJ edit just to remove some weird plot holes/messiness.
That, for me, also clears up Snoke’s "how he done in and was fine AND how he … kinda understood their connection and Palpy didn’t. People can argue all the details, but it is still a mess imo.
TL:DR version: Snoke’s mind bridge was intended for them to communicate, not the whole physical stuff which is contributed to the Dyad stuff. He didn’t know that, just wanted them to chat.
Fair enough. The problem I have with that is it isn’t made clear enough in the film that this is the case. I actually would blame TFA in this case. If TFA overtly set up that they had some mystical connection, it would be more believable that Snoke’s mind bridge would accelerate it. The problem, at least in my case, is that when Snoke says that line it appears that he is taking credit for everything, not just the chatting.
Oh, I don’t disagree it’s all a mess. Lol. If possible, I’d remove him taking credit and instead focuses more on him knowing that Rey would come back from Kylo after learning his origin … thinking she could “save him” or whatever … kinda like Luke with Vader, when Emperor told Vader that Luke would come to them. (which he did, sorta.)
Here is one take on the whole thing. They’ve been a Dyad since the beginning (TFA) and Snoke’s Mind Meldtm “jumpstarted” their Dyadness. I mean, those two would have no idea about it or understanding of their “special bond.” So having Snoke do something with the unintended result of the whole “transfer of physical things/touching/etc.”
I would almost think Snoke’s plan was to have them connected like how Luke and Vader were able to connect, or Leia and Luke were able to connect from a distance, but a more “clear” connection. The the unintended results is it jump started their Dyad ability instead of it naturally growing if they were together and on the same “side” of things, if that makes sense.
TL:DR version: Snoke’s mind bridge was intended for them to communicate, not the whole physical stuff which is contributed to the Dyad stuff. He didn’t know that, just wanted them to chat.
@poppa it looks pretty good, I do see the seems. However, putting a “walker” puppet over that one spot will cover it on the left side-ish I notice.
As for the dyad thing, anything that implies they were NOT this Dyad thing … or connected in some way at the time of TFA would be a big no for me. (it helps explain Rey’s "instant level up/download Kylo’s TRAINED abilities)
Personally, one of my (many) dislikes from TLJ was Snoke’s line about “Light meets dark … Kylo find his match, yada yada” is it completely notifies the PT.
Essentially, he’s implying "For each dark side/light side user, the light side/dark side user will match it.
How many Sith were there during the PT? How many Jedi?
I really, REALLY hated that.
Can we still have a “pew pew” though? 😉
I demand it.
Agreed Rogue.
Also, let’s not taint the OT anymore with the sequels. 😛
Fair enough, Brewzter. I just don’t like it when these kind of crucial details rely on the audience knowing what the character said was a lie, especially when it is never explicitly proven to be one. This is why I remove it from TLJ, but apparently that removes one of the greatest film twists of all time (sarcasm). Personally, I feel that Snoke taking advantage of their mind link instead of creating it is still a good twist, but whatever.
I agree … I don’t like it when “they” make the audience “assume” or “figure out” that a character lied because “X, Y, or Z” reasons … especially when a plot hole/creative change appears.
Shakes head
In regards to the Dyad thing, once again, merits on both sides of it.
I think I lean towards them “always being a dyad” is it really helps explains stuff in TFA as Jar Jar brought up right now, but also for me specifically, how Rey was able to, erm, “download” Kylo’s powers and abilities without doing a dang thing. So for that alone, I’m ok with it being something they always were.
As we have MR slave away with the Puppet scene/Ligthsaber (Work! WORK!) and hopefully Jonh will be finishing up with Luke’s haircut, I brought this up on a different thread, that started with a comment from Hal regarding the Palpy Clone.
First of all, having the vat full of Palpy clones is fantastic and helps address the Sith Elephant in the Room with his, erm, return.
So now just sitting an thinking about it, “Why have the clones of him as an old guy?” Kinda like, you are going to go on a road trip, and instead of filling up your tank, you fill only fill it up a couple of gallons.
So the thought is, if possible, what about adding a “variety” of clone faces. Maybe take a face/head of Palps as you see him in The Phantom Menace. And maybe another one, could be the face of his “clone son.” I saw a deep fake of using a younger Ian McDairmid and it didn’t look too different, albeit maybe the nose and eyebrows I think?
I dunno if this really matters or helps with anything, but was just a thought I had just thinking about “Why clone old guy Palps and not younger?” Granted, I am ok with the idea that the clone body cannot take it and it pretty much ages/falls apart … but it does still seem “kinda strange” to have clones of his old body … why not the younger model to get some more milage out of it? Lol.
Hal, it’s up to you, ultimately. But I don’t think the EU should be a factor. If we use bbghost’s edit, and cut it to “Babu works for the crew. That’s not you.” It wouldn’t contradict anything that might come up in the EU down the line. BUT, it would help avoid what feels like a disjointed ret-con from the other two films regarding Poe’s backstory.
In other words, it would make the Hal9000 Sequel Trilogy more cohesive unto itself; while simultaneously avoiding closing off any doors to the EU. And actually, it would work even better with EU material that came out before TROS, which said he was raised in a well-to-do environment. Making him a Spice Runner actually restricts the EU much more.
If you leave it ambiguous, it’s the best of both worlds, really. Both sides of the issue are appeased.
That’s just my opinion.
That’s a good point on that part, just removing the “that’s not you” does more good than bad, it doesn’t take away from anything, it just helps the audience.
It makes me think about the changes to palpy at the end regarding his time with ray and his “I never wanted to kill you” thing. It feels like a similar principle is here.
MR, if you were to go with the Walker like thing, would that help hide a lot of things, at least on the left side?
Just changing the subject - does MR have any status updates on the clean puppet plate? As in, does he think it’s possible to do?
We can all agree that he is not allowed to sleep and work on it non stop. Granted, he may go crazy and lose his mind … but sacrifices must be made.
Right MR?!
Yeah sorry I knew somebody would misinterpret what I said. I was legitimately asking whether he thought it would be possible to do it eventually because he mentioned he was having some difficulties with it. Sorry if it appeared I was being impatient because I was genuinely curious.
Bro I didn’t mean that at all, I wanted to make a funny comment about MR and working on this thing. I know fun hearted comments can be hard to tell in text without hearing it/body language.
My bad!
I’m pretty chill and like all these discussions and get everybody’s take on things, I hope I don’t come across as one of those “my idea is right and your wrong and … and … agree or else” vibe at all.
Lol that’s what’s great about these discussions, get to hear all sides and learn things.
Your cool jar jar!
Oh I’m glad to hear that.
Hey, this is going to sound like an extremely random question - but do you play Destiny 2 on steam? I was playing the other day and I played against somebody named jarbear and they absolutely destroyed me. It was probably just somebody else with the same name but still, thought I might as well ask.
No problem about that, I really never try to be that annoying mean guy. Im not the best at writing/typing. If I ever come across as the opposit of that, or appearing to get “heated”, please anyone “call me out” or say “chill bro,” I’m never afraid to apologize or admit I’m wrong. Lol.
Oh and not me, not much of an online gamer. Obviously someone has stolen my identity! HUNT HIM DOWN FOR ME! Haha!
For Zorri and Rey, I see three options:
Leave it alone. Zorri recognizes Rey’s skill and gives her a nod of respect. Rey accepts her compliment and extends her hand. Going into the following scene, we understand Zorri has decided to help.
Rey owns the other crew members, presumably killing them all since we don’t see them again. She holds a gun to Zorri’s head, asking for her help. Zorri, who we imagine wouldn’t act out of cowardice, reluctantly admits her willingness to help by responding with just “okay.”
Rey owns the other crew members. She holds a gun to Zorri’s head, voicing her desire for help. She retracts her saber and extends her hand, assuming Zorri’s cooperation.
Personally I like 3 myself, mostly cuz I don’t like the dialogue. Sometimes silence speaks better than words.
Just changing the subject - does MR have any status updates on the clean puppet plate? As in, does he think it’s possible to do?
We can all agree that he is not allowed to sleep and work on it non stop. Granted, he may go crazy and lose his mind … but sacrifices must be made.
Right MR?!
Yeah sorry I knew somebody would misinterpret what I said. I was legitimately asking whether he thought it would be possible to do it eventually because he mentioned he was having some difficulties with it. Sorry if it appeared I was being impatient because I was genuinely curious.
Bro I didn’t mean that at all, I wanted to make a funny comment about MR and working on this thing. I know fun hearted comments can be hard to tell in text without hearing it/body language.
My bad!
I’m pretty chill and like all these discussions and get everybody’s take on things, I hope I don’t come across as one of those “my idea is right and your wrong and … and … agree or else” vibe at all.
Lol that’s what’s great about these discussions, get to hear all sides and learn things.
Your cool jar jar!
Just changing the subject - does MR have any status updates on the clean puppet plate? As in, does he think it’s possible to do?
We can all agree that he is not allowed to sleep and work on it non stop. Granted, he may go crazy and lose his mind … but sacrifices must be made.
Right MR?!
Yeah, he should look like he’s 30 and healthy.
We couldn’t possibly… deepfake that… right?
JEDIT: I recall thinking, though, that having him rejuvinated into… this ugly SOB actually validates a change I made to Episode III (and that L8wrtr and Kerr made before me) to depict his face transformation as a revelation rather than an injury.
I was thinking about this comment and then about the “Palpy Clone Vats” would it be interesting that not every clone face was the same Palpy face? What about one that has his Phantom Menace age and even his “son” face on one of them? That way its like a series of clones aging or whatever and it can be implied they were trying different ones, ages, etc. to try and find the “right” spot?
Wait, for the Ben thing … didn’t Ben communicate right away to Luke?
Also, were they not being attacked and in the heat of the moment with the Ties?
I think those situations are a bit different … plus, we are also talking about the entire “crew” who knew Chewy well, developed friendships over a period of time. I am not sure that is a 1v1 comparison to be honest. The only person that was attached to Ben was Luke … while the others did not have a personal connection. Let alone the audience at this time of the movie after so many years.
And also to be fair I see merit and understand both sides of it, I just personally lean removing it. Also really would like the change to Zorri and Rey’s “OK” stuff because its … kinda goofy.
But it ain’t going to derail the edit one way or the other.