TV's Frink said:
lol
Dude, I spent almost 18 months on my last edit and got something like four reviews. You can't force interest.
Oh, well, I should really write a review then, it was really a great edit. Don't feel underappreciated!
I'm downloading your clips right now, I'll watch them all soon. You got some good ideas from what I see in the cutlists. Just curious, What programs are you using to do this edit?
It seems that ROTS opening is an extreme chalange to try to get rid of the music, and after tweaking around through multiple different software, I only got a result about the same (but without the dialogue gating issues of that video) as previous posted video. However many non-action places are easily isolated.
I did goof for hours around enough to discover: if one wants to remove the music from any of the action aequences, they'll need to use a spectral display to extract each peice of dialogue or necessary sfx and combine it with new sfx/foley along with the new music. The dialogue and some sfx can be perfectly extracted from the music but only through manual spectral masking, which I don't feel like doing. I have a limit to my strong work ethic towards all this, I'm not like Ady and his ridiculous rotoscoping.
Knowing this though, I don't doubt the fact that feature I highlighted above would work with Star Wars, so if a year or so wait is what is necessary so be it. It clearly just automates most of the spectral extraction process.
Just posting here, to say I'll post my attempt at music removal sometime later today or tommorow. I do think it is a little more possible then it is thought to be.
On another note, that spectral sound editing I mentioned earlier is being taken to new levels in this sneak peak for a future Adobe version a year or so away. While they are basic files he's playing with, the fact that there are no artifacts is amazing, and shows we are getting closer.
http://tv.adobe.com/watch/adobe-technology-sneaks-2013/sneak-peek-audio-layers/
bttfbrasilfan said:
This is looking great! It's almost exactly like TPM. More comparisons please.
Also, I recommend you to try this plug-in:
http://www.filmconvert.com/
Thanks, and I'll be sure to be posting plenty more comparisons soon, I'll porbably put up 10 or 20 ar once in a day or so. And if I have some more time this next week, maybe some for ROTS.
I did look into that plugin. I remember looking into it a long time ago, but I saw it was mac only and I currently run a pc. (EDIT:Although I just found out I'm apparently getting a new Macbook Pro within the next 2 months.) However, I did look into the grain and grading techniques the software uses (built-in Log-Linear conversion, prebuilt LUT's for Kodak and Fuji films, and high quality grain emulation) and have taken them in the new comparison(s) along with my other control.
On another note, I'm slowly figuring out also how to tweak some lighting (not in the the most recent comparison) to make elements seem more OT-like and 80's like.
rockin said:
It looks good, however I think I can see something that looks like chroma noise where the grain has been added. That might be the wrong word for it actually, but I can see where you've added grain it is having the side-effect of causing some tiny coloured dots to appear in places.
Actually there's chroma noise in the original shot, though the grain I've been adding is multicoloured grain, I could add grayscale grain instead if preferred.
Back with a new screenshot. The colours I haven't touched too much yet, I think I made the image too warm in parts, but I think I may have gotten further to nailing down a filmic texture. I'm trying out another method of applying grain and I still have to work on the contrast, the contrast might still be too much in the shadows.
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/24851
I'll finish up some other previews over the next couple of days. I have some pics that look like the film was truly shot 35mm. I even have gotten the jedi council to look identical to the TPM look, aside from its odd tints.
I'm also looking foward to the new version of Adobe Speedgrade coming out within the next month; it looks like it has some features that could add some help beyond my current AE/Speedgrade/Magic Bullet workflow.
Looks interesting there, though usually most changelists are slightly more general. I'll certainly watch your edits when I have the time.
I did like some edits you used in your ROTS opening.
Mithrandir said:
Audacity noise reduction filter it is
Hmm...Well let me try to make a video using the same technique using Audition's noise reduction filter. (i'm assuming you made a noise profile using the movie's score disc?)
As you can see there are some more advanced features to tweak the noise floor and stuff to fix the problems with the dialogue.
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/audition/cs/using/WS58a04a822e3e5010548241038980c2c5-7f30.html
Mithrandir said:
I couldn't tell you that, because I didn't try. I worked with trackes, noise-reducted in different frequencies using the original score as noise profile.
Today I returned to this problem, using the Rear Surround track as noise profile, and despite what seemed, results were worse.
Anyway, I made a masked version of the dialogue back then, using random music (It was anakin vs obiwan theme i believe) and some of the artifacts got slightly camouflated.
I don't have means or an account to upload it, so it's up to eric
What are you using to apply noise reduction? Gating settings should exist in the noise reduction interface, since part of using noise reduction is determining and adjusting the noise gate. It's location, strength or weakness of passing in and out of it, etc. I know Audition and other stuff I use has those advanced settings.
If you created the noise profile, it created it at a single volume level for each frequency of noise. You can adjust those to the best levels (reducing the music enough but not cutting the dialogue) and adjust the settings of the noise gate to make it sound natural especially since you'll need a certain level of gating.
The Nerd said:
The source is the widescreen DVDs, i don't think the aspect ratio has anything to do with the sound. But I was able to remove all the sound effects during for my ROTS complete score during the It Can't Be cue scene, where we see part of mustafar and then Anakin crying. Part of the cue that you hear in the scene is unreleased while most is heard on the track Anakin's Dark Deeds.
What, that doesn't make any sense to me. The DVD's have a mix like that? If it's really like that than post some videos on Vimeo.
The Nerd said:
Well, it's something like close to that. I know the back channels are reserved for music. I don't really mess around with any of the other channels that much.
1- Center, 2-Left, 3-Right, 4-Subwoofer,5-Rear Left, 6-Rear Right.
Dialogue and onset audio is focused more towards towards channel 1 with the music, sound effects, and dialogue reverb mixed throughout the other channels.
If it was as you say, this thread wouldn't exist.
Mithrandir said:
Here's the first vid. The source file to get this was the center channel of the AC3 file, so compare to that mono track and not to the complete audio if you wanna hear what was lost, specially SFX-wise.
That's pretty well done. Though was the gating really that needed, because the voices sound very unnatural as they pass in and out of the gate. Has there been a way to eliminate the music just as much and have the dialogue sound more natural?
The Nerd said:
The music is in sync with the movie, except a few places have been cut short, just to move the music along faster:
- Disc 1:
- Track 4 Death Warrant For Qui-Gon And Obi-Wan and Track 5 Fighting The Destroyer Droids. The ending string hold has been cut to about 3 seconds.
- Track 20 Desert Winds. This is a bonus track and was not used the film at all.
- Track 31 The Flag Parade does not repeat.
- Track 31 The Flag Parade and Track 32 Sebulba’s Dirty Hand / Qui-Gon’s Pep Talk. The start of track 32 starts sooner.
- Disc 2:
- Track 15 The Queen And Her Group Sneak Back To The Palace and Track 16 The Battle Begins. The ending of track 15 is cut short, it flows right into Track 16 without stopping.
- Track 32 End Credits. This track is not the film ending. The film uses an extremely edited version, TUE version is the same as the album.
No TUEs were made for Episode II and III because fans hated this soundtrack for some reason. They bitched and complained about getting a film score, so Sony released a score. About the time Sony was going to release a TUE for AOTC, that's when people started hated the TUE of TPM, so Sony terminated the project for Star Wars TUE. I once saw the Sony webpage advertising the TUE for Episode II and it said that all music in the finished film would be on the 2 disc soundtrack, including all the edited Geonosis battle music from Episode I. I would include a link to the page, but Sony shut the page down several years ago.
Some music was recorded for TPH and first appeared in AOTC. Confusing right? Well, I'll explain. Some music cues were unused because they were part of deleted scenes. So in 1999 lucas basically said Williams "look, when I make Episode II, I'll be sure to include some of the cues from Episode I that were deleted during the Battle of Geonosis. So don't write to much of a battle score when the time comes." and Williams basically said "Sure. Okay."
The Phantom Menace TUE is good when you want to watch the film and just hear the music score, not dialogue or sound effects to interrupt the experience.
Yes, I wouldn't think the score would be absolutely perfect, a comment on Amazon had said so though. With a little editing around though, it would certainly help with that film.
Interesting info info about TUE's there. It's really sad they cancelled those editions for the other films. John Williams music is still beautiful, though a tad repetitive in the prequels. Although there is better music out there for parts, which is the point of all this.
Just found this:
This apparently is the music exactly in sync with the original theatrical cut of the film. So with editing it back to the original version, syncing the music exactly, you could inverse the phase of the music and eliminate the music and retain the dialog and sound effects with little to no distortion.
Now, if only a CD was released like this for Ep. 2 and 3.
More info on the upcoming arcs along with a new preview of an arc that will potentially reveal who Sifo-Dias really was and possibly is.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/2013/04/30/star-wars-the-clone-wars-animation/2122763/
Sadly, I watch this to see again that the quality of the show has seemed to improve a lot since the beginning of the last arc. The many reasons I'm sad to see this show go.
I've been pondering more and more how I will do the other two films, and I certainly want to do something just as radical as they'll need them.
But now, I've figured a way I might be able to do some more radical changes to the trilogy: moving material Episodes I, II, and III freely about all three films. I know I have to keep most material within their own films, but you'd be surprised how much you can do.
I'm really looking at the original films even more, and looking at the Pt, there's some new plots that can be formed to make some interesting things.
One thing I plan to do is have Episode II end with Palpatine's capture by Dooku. It's possible fottage and FX-wise and will give it a simmular feel to Episode 5's ending which goes virtually right into 6. I also am working way more with Episode II for this to work. If anything, I'd love to make Episode II an overall darker film than III.
So within a couple weeks, I'll have the teaser trailer for my Ep. II edit up, along with a new clip or two.
bttfbrasilfan said:
I have made some little tests using this new plug-in for Adobe Premiere called FilmConvert. The results are here:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/19700Faces:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/19704
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/19705
Lava:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/19706
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/19707
I actually quite like those especially in how well done the grain is. It's much closer to what I'm trying to acheive.
The color correction is more filmic and that is one other thing that isn't shown here in this thread yet. The color correction stills are first passes, which will go through stock emulation work. I'll have to check it out.
I did this a while ago, so the color shift is the same as previous. I guess I just forgot to upload this one. Opening Scene of EP. II:
To respond to all of you, I did realize the sharpening was a bit too much after taking a second look. I'd really love to pull some of those fine details out, but I'll just have to try another way.
Although one reason to not sharpen is probably the deleted scenes. If I sharpen the HD movie, the Upscaled sd deleted scenes would stand out. I've been working on a lot with new upscaling algorithms, and I'm getting to the point that it is unrecognizable from the HD, they blend in. Of course the fine grain helps too, so maybe absolutely no sharpening.
I see lots of people complaining about the color shift, and I think I can tone the saturation of it down to be more natural if I apply it to a separate layer and change the blending mode in AE. It is purposeful though since I want to add a little bit of imperfectness that the OT image had.
Also, borisanddoris the release is the full theatrical cuts plus the DVD deleted scenes, and I think maybe a couple usable BD deleted scenes like Anakin and Padme's Father (actually that might be the only usable one, I think).
In addition, I'd like to state I am also figuring out stuff with the audio. I am trying to emulate the Ot theatrical mixes closely with the sound of the audio. I'm testing out settings with multiband compressors, EQ's, pitch warping to make it sound like it was recorded longer ago (but not sacrificing any real quality.)
And yeah, I'd love to see that print. Would be a great reference for color since lots of PT stuff isn't in the OT. Can't afford $750+ right now since I just bought lot's of new software including Element 3D, which with some CGI models I can easily beat the quality of CGI in the prequels. (Just don't expecte me to just outright redo everything, even though I'd love too. haha) However I'm going about looking for external color reference sources. For example, Sound Of Music is a great color reference for what Naboo should look like.
And thanks, for the wonderful feedback. It really helps me to get the images just right.
dvdmike said:
There was a shot floating round of a 35mm scan of episode 2 of portman, that would be perfect to match to and looks amazing
Where could I find this?
Just testing out some new grain techniques. I'm trying to add detail that would be there in 35mm and have realistic grain. The colour correction also reflects a more accurate pallette.
ben_danger said:
what if obi-wan goes to him intentionally and directly looking for advice during his investigations? so dooku might be initially introduced the wise retired ex-jedi, only to be later revealed as the leader of the rebels.
So essentially Gandalf going to Saruman?
Ha, but seriously there is some good dialogue from LOTR and The Hobbit to use for Chirstopher Lee.
Maybe like, "...very soon we will summon an army great enough to launch an assault upon the republic."
Really the intense force powers and lightning should not be shown till ROTJ. If the order of the films is to truly be 1-6, the action and tension needs to build up on eachother.
ben_danger said:
Can you imagine the tension if the car chase was flipped? So they were rushing to save padme?
Saw that idea and just ran with it, you might just have influenced my edit of Episode II...
Anyhow, in regards to Episode II, I still purpose my method of a completely new rearragned plot. I have the Geonosis arena in the beginning to accomplish multiple things. For one, all the OT films start in the midst of action. The crawls allow them to skip boring exposition. Episode I and II feel to much like the beginning of films, unlike Episodes III-VI. We need to get right in there with the characters. Second, it allows more theoretical screentime for Dooku, as we'll see him early on along with other scenes placed throughout the film. Third, it allows action to be more often in the film, since we don't just pile all the good stuff at the end; it needs to be entertaining throughout. To me, it's one of the worst issues with Episodes I and II.
Episode III does start out better, but I feel that there still needs to be more action. This film feels the least Star-Warsish, and more like some stupid Soap Opera. Again, rearranging to give a more consitent amount of action will certainly help.
One thing I really want to see in PT:R is almost every FX shot completely replaced/recomposited, along with enhancements to any shots that look good enough (there are some good ones in Episode I with the minatures, but it stops there.) I really just want way, way less CGI than what currently exists in the PT.