darth_ender

I just wrote this very brief scene, based on the winning vote to include a scene of the DSII plans coming to the Rebellion.  It would be the only Bothan related scene at all in this version of my script.  It would probably be easier to create than any other and provides enough of the information people were hoping for as a plot setup.  Currently the only reasonable place to put it is just after rescuing Han, before the Emperor arrives at the Death Star.  In this sense, it fits nicely with the message the Bothan is bringing.  The scene of the Rebel briefing would still follow the Emperor's arrival as well, so my only worry is that there is not much time separating the arrival of the Death Star info and the briefing, but it seems fine to me.  What do you guys think?  Does it work?

EXTERIOR: SPACE – REBEL FLEET

In space, we see several large vessels that seem to be joining in formation around the planet Sullust.  We see an Imperial shuttle slowly arriving and approaching the HEADQUARTERS FRIGATE, also called HOME ONE.

INTERIOR: IMPERIAL SHUTTLE COCKPIT

The blood-encrusted furry hand pilots the shuttle towards the open hangar.  We then see the eyes of the Bothan up close, filled with tears.

BOTHAN: (emotionally, speaking over the intercom) Home One, this is Commander Gryl’ya.  I am the last of Bothan team Mon Mothma sent out, and I have some desperate news for her.

Sluggo said:

Unless Vader is arriving "covertly" as it were.  Jerjerrod was surprised at his arrival.

This is true, but it need not be that surprising IMO.  People really like the idea of using the Executor.  It seems its popping out of hyperspace and a shuttle immediately departing is still plenty surprising.

But his covert arrival is all I can think of as the original reasoning, though I don't know why he would be so cautious.  Often these things are done with great pomp.

EDIT: On top of this, people voted to make Vader tougher, but we weren't sure how to do it..  This gives him a more intimidating presence in the film, as does the reincorporated Jerjerrod choking scene with a stronger line instead of that spoken by Prowse.

I'm just throwing out ideas while I've got a few moments and while they're in my head.  It bums me out, while working on the script, that even in the deleted scenes there was never the reconciliation between Han and Lando that was originally written.  Because we are hoping to use the sandstorm scene which covers most of the material used during the parting flights from Tatooine, the actually scene where the Falcon and W-wing fly away is very short.  What if we dubbed over Han's "Thanks for coming after me" lines with some impersonated reconciliation over the speaker, something where Han and Lando joke back and forth for a moment, making some comment that indicates that Han has forgiven Lando while Luke overhears and smiles to himself.

LEIA: Hurry.  The Alliance should be assembled by now.

LUKE: I will.

HAN: (sarcastically) I guess we owe Lando some thanks too.

LANDO: I just figured you'd give me bad luck forever if I didn't do something.

I don't know if that's the best way to do it, but do you understand what I'm getting at?

Had the thought today that not only does Vader arrive with just an ordinary Star Destroyer, but he also only has two fighters providing escort and a small entourage of troopers and officers waiting for him.  Clearly he doesn't get the respect the Emperor does when he arrives (with every TIE fighter circling the station and hundreds of military personnel), but still I feel a man who is as feared and revered as Vader should have more respect from his underlings.  I think he should have at least four fighters as escort , probably TIE Interceptors, and a larger welcoming committee, complete with balloons and a "We Missed You" banner.  Okay, maybe not the silly stuff, but do you see what I'm saying?

Although it is such a simple thing, the opening crawl is crucial for setting the stage of the entire film.  This is the crawl I used in my last script:

Bingowings said:

Okay sugar.

One idea I've been tarting around on the wishlist thread for some while is that when the Rebels enter the backdoor bunker, instead of going underground to the reactor room (do we need another reactor blowing up?) they enter a service elevator leading to the just under the projector dish.

The reactor background could be replaced by a view of the skyline and perhaps a bit of the dish showing.

The Imperial officer gets knocked off an exterior balcony of the tower instead of into the reactor area.

When the charges go off instead of blowing up half the forest it just snaps the dish off which slides downhill cutting off the power to the Death Star shield.

When Han and Leia watch the station explode and have their little chat about Luke it takes place inside the wrecked dish.

Big effects project but it would make the conclusion of the ground battle look more visually interesting and it would be kind of poetic for Han and Leia to watch the Death Star go bang inside the carcass of their slain dragon.

Interesting proposition.  It does sound like a lot of work, but it has a nice symbolism to it.  My only serious complaint would be that it's not quite as dramatic a finish to the generator as we are used to, but perhaps that's okay.

I was excited to see Bingo contributing to this thread, and instead he gets caught up in my semantics.  *sob*

Well, GoodMusician, as if you didn't already have me convinced before, those sound really great.  Looking forward to hearing more of your work :)

As for prequel themes, I would understand a lack of inclusion, though we had discussed it extensively.  I know MrInsaneA really likes the idea of a couple of them, and I think they maybe could be used subtly as motifs, even if not a flat out full song.  But it's up to you, though I hope you'll take our input as well.

I will finish the updated script ASAP (maybe today if I'm lucky), and from there I will turn it into a rough outline for your sake.  I don't really know how long each scene would last, but hopefully such a rough outline could at least give you a general sense.

You mention prequel themes.  Did you mean original trilogy themes or do you plan on implementing some PT material (something that a few here really have strongly advocated)?

Yes, when I first took a look at the wishlist, I became quite excited simply by all the beautiful backgrounds.  I'll definitely put these sorts of things up for vote.

So I've already set up a new forum with a shoutbox for our sub-team.  I think this could serve their needs.  So far no one has complained about the idea, so pretty soon I'm going to send out invitations to the new forum.  As I said, I will keep people here updated.  Remember, we still discuss story and other ideas here and take them to the sub-team, and if they want to continue participating, they need to continue to respect the wishes of all.  I am the administrator of this new forum, so I think we can maintain a happy symbiosis.

So I'm thinking I want people to begin submitting their ideas for voting.  You can of course put it here in the forum or in a PM or both.  In the forum you can argue for your point of view and in a PM I will keep better track of it.  So again, this is a call for idea submissions.  It's very hard to collect them all on my on and I'm sure to miss something, so if you want us to consider your ideas, please submit them to me, ideally by Friday so we can begin discussion.

I will also work on the script once again and try to have it ready sooner so GoodMusician can get a feel for the timing of the film.  By the way, are you planning on rescoring the whole film, or just the parts that need adjustment?  I think the whole thing doesn't need be altered, but since some scenes' lengths will be changed or we will try for alternate moods, those would be the most opportune times.  Also, fishmanlee has been pushing for some alternate Williams cues that you might want to listen to as well.

Fishmanlee, is there any chance you can also make videos with the original cues but without dialogue for comparison?  I know it's a lot of work, but it might help us when it comes time to vote in the second round.  If it's too much work, I'm sure we can figure it out, but it might help.

At the present the only timeline we have is my script.  It's not up to date reflecting all the ideas up for discussion, but it is a step in the right direction.  When the sub-team is underway, I imagine they will address very specific frames and such, but the actual story is in there, plus whatever changes we voted on (see our voted items here.

Still an idea and not at all filmed, Jaitea, but judging by the 7 inch Executor pics above, are you able to enhance it to a point where it would be more detailed in motion, resembling the original star destroyer flyover in the ROTJ opening?  I'm just trying to gauge how much CGI we will ultimately have to use, as I imagine asking aalenfae to create so many realistic 3D CGI models is really a big request.

Johannus, those models look great!  You are of course right that they will not be as useful as studio models, but I think we can use them for mostly distance shots, and perhaps enhance any closeups we'd have to do.  Of the starfighters, the various TIEs look good, as does the B-wing, the Millennium Falcon, and perhaps others.  We could use them in distant shots at least.  The Sentinel-class shuttle looks like it could serve our needs when in motion (probably relying on a modification to the matte in the Home One hangar).  The Mon Cal cruisers would be helpful, but definitely for very distant shots.

It also occurs to me that if someone can think of some way to keep Fett alive and kill him later, possibly in the space battle in some sort of dogfight with Lando, that could be fun and we could try to use the Slave I model.

As you said, if nothing else, these can provide placement.  And if we are truly fortunate, we can even use them as the basic model so it only requires touching up to give them the level of realism they need.

MrInsaneA and everyone, I hope you are noting and collecting all your ideas for a second round of voting.  I don't know how soon I'll hold it, but I doubt I'll wait long.  I really do like that very alien sounding song you mentioned, MrInsaneA.

Interesting tune.  I don't know if it could necessarily replace either song because even if we cut down the scene (something I favor), it still is a tense moment where Oola meets the Rancor and needs something to better capture the mood.  Nevertheless, I feel it would fit quite well when the droids first approach Jabba (or maybe on the sail barge, but I prefer the former).  It creates a sinister mood so we better feel like the droids are entering a dangerous place.  Before it tended to feel a little silly, but this ominous music creates a creepy feel quite well and sets up a scarier Jabba, I think.

Okay, really, the last comment for today, or at least for a while.

On top of that, has anyone considered that perhaps Obi-Wan wanted Luke and Vader to find each other.  Vader clearly knows by ESB that Luke is his son (unless you take into account the 04 Emperor lines, but even then, Vader could be feigning ignorance).  While initially  protecting him till better aware, I suspect Ben wanted to allow events to unfold with Luke and Vader colliding.  Of course this is a convenient retcon anyway, but a reasonable one to me.

Final comment for today.  I was pondering Endor and its planet.  The novel says the planet blew up long ago.  This would mean it's technically no longer a moon, but rather a planet, though it could keep the moon title for nostalgic reasons I suppose.  But at this point in Ewoks: The Caravan of Courage, you can see a large celestial body clearly hanging there in the sky:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0928R-MZ1ZI&t=0m25s

And interestingly I noticed this celestial body at the opening of ROTJ.

Now this is very close in the real universe, but in Star Wars it might not be true.  Potentially this could be the planet (albeit much further than shown in the Ewoks film).  I guess I'm just wondering who wants to include the planet?  I think it'd be fun to have.  Just thinking aloud.

Insane, I like 'em all.  I hope we can include something like them.  They'd be amazing.

Something to relate to the team for now...a big announcement/proposal really.

Someone recently suggested to me via PM that we create a sort of sub-team.  This would consist of the folks most heavily involved in special effects.  The hope is that we could set up a chat function for this sub-team specifically wherein they could discuss concepts more fluidly and not have to take up actual forum here discussing the more technical aspects of making our edit.  There would be a level of privacy for them in order to avoid extraneous ideas.  In other words, the idea folks could suggest ideas here (that includes me) while the actual movie-makers discuss the how-to there.  My big worry is that if we incorporate this element, some team members will feel left out.  The best way to handle this would probably be to have me (since I have thus far been the coordinator and recruiter of this project) sort of act as a liaison between the two groups to make sure everyone here is up to speed.  Of course the other guys would share what they are making, post vids and stills and ideas and such.  They would still take our feedback.  But I would in a sense bring announcements on progress to you and bring your ideas to them if they are being negligent of the forum here.  Also, if there are grievances that the idea/story folks are feeling left in the dark, I would bring such complaints to their attention and request updates.  This is the best compromise I can think of and it hopefully wouldn't be too time-consuming for me.  The hope is to create greater efficiency among those making everyone's dream become a reality.

What do you all think of this?  If we go for it, this would be my suggested sub-team

Aalenfae (3D modeling, compositing, other special effects)
Angel (2D, matting, lighting, compositing, other special effects)
Jaitea (image enhancement?, touch up?, texturing?)
GoodMusician (music composition, possible sound editing?)
Johannus (physical models, filming models in action)
emanswfan (deleted scene restoration)

If others are interested, they can certainly be considered.  I hope we easily gain a general consensus, but if necessary, it may require a vote.  This is in many ways like the democratic Republic known as the USA.  There is a general population with a will, but we elect representatives to bring the public will to fruition.  However I understand if there is concern, so please express your thoughts.

^I'm looking forward to your work, GoodMusician, and I'm glad you find the idea a worthy one.

@Johannus, I don't know what would be easiest, so I would let the effects team decide that sort of thing I guess.  I know Jaitea is skilled with Photoshop, so I don't if he'd be willing to touch up an existing model in motion or not.  We can ask him.

As for the shuttle, I suspect you are thinking of this picture from the wishlist (item 14):

Personally I like the idea.  The same shuttle was used in ANH:SE (not the best picture but the first that I found):

You can see it taking off briefly in the upper midleft.

I think it'd be a nice addition and is a nice distinction from the regular Lambda shuttle used by Vader and the Emperor already.  What does everyone else think?

Here's the Wookieepedia article.  My greatest concern now having read this is size and fitting it into the hangar.  There's no truly definitive size (as is truly the case for any Star Wars ship, since they abound in inconsistencies on screen).  I think it can be done, though, if anyone else likes the idea and you're willing to put forth the effort.  I'm sure it would be filmed quite a bit more than any other models we ask of you, as we already know what shots it would be used for, and may even have additional shots for it.

A thought for Johannus: since our opening will be using the Executor in place of the Imperial Star Destroyer when Vader arrives, it occurred to me we may have a use for both your Lambda shuttle and Super Star Destroyer models.  It may be easiest to just reuse the shuttle footage while compositing the bigger destroyer, but since we want to make the approach take a bit longer, your model may come in handy.  Just early thoughts.  But of utmost importance if going with an actual model, how much close scrutiny could it handle?  Could it be used in a scene like this?  Or do you think it's better just for the distance shots?  No worries if it can't get that close, as that's pretty detailed.  Just asking.

So GoodMusician, we are tremendously pleased, and I assume fishmanlee had something to do with your coming (thanks, fish).  Since music composition usually comes along later in a film but we don't wish to waste your time or lose your interest, it might be nice to see what you can offer.  I like your Jurassic Park clips very much and can see you can go the distance, you're gonna fly now, and you've got the eye of the tiger :)

So one thing we voted on recently was incorporating the Death Star theme into the film more extensively, as it served as the Imperial March of ANH.  We voted specifically to include in Vader's arrival in the beginning, though you ultimately are the music expert.  I picture a slightly lengthier arrival scene combining the intimidating DS music with Imperial March, either interweaving the two motifs, or more likely using DS music first as the shuttle slowly approaches, followed by the March when it's actually coming into the hangar.  Since we aren't anywhere near completing our version of the scene, I was wondering if you might be interested in simply creating a sample version that could easily be modified for inclusion when the scene is completed.

This is all up to you of course, because you are ultimately the decision-maker.  However, I know I've got high hopes for such a music choice, and we all know you've got your own life.  It's simply a request to see how workable it is.  Perhaps we could see your work in action on ROTJ and give feedback.  Just a thought, but perhaps you prefer to use your own methods.  Let us know :)

You are extremely welcome!  I wish I could give a lengthier intro, but at the moment I'm a tad busy.  I will give you a more formal welcome today or tomorrow.  For now just know that we are very pleased to have you :)

fishmanlee said:

Here are all my score videos in one post:

The Iron Door: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoYbpEyY-Y8&feature=channel_video_title

Bounty for a Wookiee (SE Version) NEWER: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek2YLVnzgwQ&feature=channel_video_title

Sail Barge Assault Alternate NEWEST: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSIG6oSCmJY&feature=related

Ben and Luke on Log NEW: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USlGlb_D9DM&feature=channel_video_title

Father and Son: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8eCuzn5q5U&feature=related

The Lightsaber: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_K8HL0psC8&feature=channel_video_title

Leia Breaks The News Alternate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLidns6SSMM&feature=related

 Okay, I lied.  One more post.  Thanks for including this.  I'll have to check it all out once again and compare.  This is really great.  I updated the first post to include your links here.

The Assignments Post:

Final post for now to hopefully give some assignments.  Yes, some of you volunteered your services, and I don't want this to be a perpetual ideas thread.  We actually want to turn these ideas into a movie.  I'm going to call you guys out on the carpet and encourage you to utilize your skills but set your own goals.  I will update the name of the thread to reflect these assignments and goals.  I know we all have personal lives, and I have no idea how long some of these things would normally take anyway, so I will leave that to you.  But please, everyone who gets an assignment, let us know what you think, how realistic it is what I will ask of you, and a timeframe when you hope to have something accomplished.  This will hold everyone accountable to themselves and the rest of the group, and we can then start seeing things coming together.  Please don't take offense at my doing this, but I just hope we can see some progress.

At the present we simply want to see some pieces, not a finished product, obviously.  Based on our conversations, these are assignments.  Everyone can feel free to volunteer or even opt out for the present, but at least we're seeing something.

CGI modeling/animation and other special effects:

Aalenfae - I know you don't have access to your good computer, but could you provide us with a mockup of any special effect of your choice?  It doesn't need to be perfect, but simply an idea.
Jaitea - You've not joined the conversation yet, but you told me in a PM you'd be willing to help.  After reading through my script and/or this thread, is there anything you'd be willing to do?

Physical models:

Johannus - When do you think you can complete a starship model?

Background/mattes:

Angel - Do you think you could composite in some new mattes in an actual moving scene?  I'd love to see this.

Music composition:

timdiggerm - I'm still not sure if you said you were willing or able to compose music, so I'd simply love to know if you are able.  It's really too early to know how to implement it yet.  It's also too early to do any other sound editing.
fishmanlee - I'd also like to know if you can get your music composing friends to join the team.  Perhaps they can help implement the alternate cues when appropriate.  I'm wondering if when you're done with those, we should have a vote on the new or old cues.

Scriptwriting/editing:

darth_ender - I'm going to be busy, but I'm not going away.  I will try to set a goal for a modified script based on the votes that were decisive.  I'm thinking two weeks.  I know it's a long time for a relatively little thing, but it takes more time than you know, and I kid you not, I'm going to be busy.  Due on Jan. 21.

Film editing:

ben_danger - I haven't seen you around here much lately, but you agreed to be willing to do some editing.  Once I get an updated script, could you provide us with a rough edit including deleted footage, at least of the parts of the film we've suggested altering (i.e. the order of the film)?  This is a lot to ask, but the way I see it, if we get a complete film with the pieces we already have, we can better see how to implement the new material or update the existing stuff.  Say we completed this early edit, and Angel completed a shot with new matting.  All we'd have to do is replace the old shot with the new one and we're one step closer to a complete movie.
Angel - I've already asked you to do the matting, but if you want to do some editing instead, it would also be appreciated.  What I'm thinking is that it's too much work to do the whole movie at this point, and some parts are not changed significantly.  Perhaps we could split the load.
Calling volunteers - Since editing the film might be a large task, I'm asking for volunteers to do this if ben_danger and Angel cannot.  Also we could simply split it up.  Someone could take the early scenes and someone could take the later.  Again, most of the special effects are not done, but I would like to see an early edit so we now how/where to place certain parts.  Please let us know if you are interested.

Deleted scene restoration:

emanswfan - This has also got to be a big job, but how long do you think it would take for you to provide us with a fixed up deleted scene?  It doesn't need to be perfect, but we'd at least love to see your progress.

I truly wish to emphasize one more time, I AM NOT SETTING DEADLINES FOR ANYONE.  HOWEVER, I HOPE YOU WILL DO SO FOR YOURSELVES.  This will keep everyone motivated and keep the energy alive.  It's not the end of the world if you can't make it, but please try to keep us all up to date on your progress.  Please put your deadline here, and I will update this post to reflect that deadline.  I will also include a link in the first post.  Or maybe I'll just include the deadlines in the first post.  Who knows?  Anyway, it will keep everyone on task.  I hope this is a fair thing to ask, and I hope no one takes offense.  I really want to see us make a spectacular edit, and I believe if we all keep some focus, we can do just that.  We're all busy with real life, but at least we'll be moving forward.

Finally, let me just add that it is a real honor working with all of you, from the most active to the most imaginitve to the lurkers who I frequently see reading this but never commenting.  You are a great team of folks and I know we can see this thing through!

Lots of comments today, but just to inform everyone, I updated the votes to reflect a couple MrInsaneA's change of heart and an accidental missed vote by emanswfan.  Also, TheoOdo only got half his votes to me because the other half was cut off so I feel in all fairness he is welcome to submit the other half whenever he comes around again and I will adjust the scores.  The only change from the above two fellows is that now we have a preference for Lando appearing to die (at least for a few more moments) but surviving.  The score is 6 to 4 to drag out his exit long enough to make us fear more for his life.