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darth_ender

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Post
#557971
Topic
Collaborative Fanediting: An ROTJ Proposition (BACK ON TRACK WITH EMANSWFAN AT THE HELM--SEE POST 1488 OR OP FOR A LINK!)
Time

Johannus said:

Oh and I made this very crude mock up for the opening scene showing the Bothans arriving at an imperial planet and stealing the plans.  It would require a lot of work but it is just to demonstrate the idea of how it could use, and also show some examples of shots that could form the basis for new shots after a lot of editting. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_v8vGWtXT8&feature=youtu.be

This is an interesting combo of Ronster's and timdiggerm's ideas.  Of all the ideas we've given serious thought to, I imagine this would be the hardest sort to pull off.  It's interesting and both ideas were very close in the votes and should be discussed further.  I still worry most about how hard some of these things would be to pull off, but if it simply involves editing existing footage from other films to the point where it's not too obvious, I'd have to defer to the special effects team on how doable it is.  It looks interesting, as did both Ronster's and timdiggerm's ideas.

Post
#557969
Topic
Collaborative Fanediting: An ROTJ Proposition (BACK ON TRACK WITH EMANSWFAN AT THE HELM--SEE POST 1488 OR OP FOR A LINK!)
Time

Johannus said:

darth_ender said:

Could not the exact same format be used to make a larger model?  Obviously not a studio model six feet in length or anything, but still of a respectable size to create a decent illusion from a distance?  And like you said, we could enhance it with CGI.

Are you really a skilled model builder?  That's awesome!  I personally think models would fill an important niche in our edit.  I'm sure there would be times when stills would suffice, though motion ability would be nice too.  Perhaps you will ultimately obtain a video camera (purchased or borrowed from a friend), or perhaps you could carefully package and mail a couple of your models to someone else.  I think this would be a fantastic way for you to contribute.  I was prepared to do this myself, but I doubt I'd do a very good job and as I've said repeatedly, busy life starts this Monday.  If you'd be willing to build these models, I would love you forever...in the most professional way imaginable of course :)

If you do build it, I suggest you look online for more pictures to get a decent idea of the full design, but this at least gives you a superficial comparison of the differences.  Let us know if you're willing to give it a shot :)

Yeah it could be used to do a similar thing to any scale but to be honest I just don't have the space for big models.  I have lots of the little models already so knocking out something of a similar size would be relatively quick and easy and wouldnt take up any extra space, however, I have one larger kit of the RotJ shuttle (which could potentially be of some use) and to be honest it is just such a pain to store without damaging it.  If I had the room to spare I would gladly offer to make these larger though. 

I do know one guy who is studying film making so he would have access to decent cameras (though I don't know if he would have time to help but its worth a try).  The problem is space again though, if its still shots I can just use a lightbox and get the angle right, whereas for moving shots I would need lots of space, several lights, and rigs to move the camera and the pieces along their paths.  It is something I would again love to do but I just don't see it as being very achievable right now. 

However, if you wanted to knock out some ideas for specific new scenes or additions to existing scenes within the space battle, I could try to make some test shots and we could take it from there.  At least everyone would have a clearer idea, and then if the chance to film in motion does come along, then at least we would know what we are doing right away.

I can't remember exactly which models I already have but I think it is most of the larger ships, but no star destroyer, so I have a super star destroyer, a mon cal ship (possibly home one), a death star (though rather annoyingly not a brilliantly accurate one but might be ok for distant shots or as a placement for a cg one to be added later).  I also have loads of the smaller fighters but the detail on those is not as good so its up to you how you want to go with those.  And if memory serves I have a few tantives and PT ships so if you wanted to add some of those I might be able to help there too.  In the meantime I can make the Victory model and then like I say just give me some scenarios to create it in and I'll knock up some examples.

 Wow, this still sounds terrific, even with your understandable limitations.  Whatever motion shots we may require I don't imagine would need to be too fancy.  I imagine only brief shots mostly from the distance.  Here, let me sum up my thoughts:

When seeing the Star Destroyers from a distance (i.e. "It's a trap" or "I wonder what those Star Destroyers are waiting for."), it would be good to see a few smaller ships dotting the fleet.  This of course would require only a still shot from the front and digitally inserted in a few places.

When the two fleets are actually engaging each other, even then it wouldn't require much.  Imagine a point like when the guy in the Y-wing yells, "I'm hit!" and spins into a Star Destroyer--perhaps we could replace that Imperial-class with a Victory.  A couple of distance shots could be useful if we show more capital ship exchanges from a bit of a distance (which I hope we do, because while I love the starfighter focus of ROTJ, I'd love to see more balance with the big vessels as well).  For instance, perhaps we could see two Rebel cruisers and two Victories pass eachother from an above view, exchanging broadsides along the way.

Maybe a couple of closeups would be useful, mostly just quick flybys that focus on the fighters.

Those are my thoughts, and in reality none of them require much motion or lighting, the most being the broadside shot.

Let me tell you that I am grateful we have you on our team.  You have a super star destroyer?!  That's awesome too.  We've been discussing enhancing the Executor's death so it is more dramatic, a la...

Your model may help with the actual crash.

Perhaps everyone can think of other ways to involve your other models.  The Mon Cal cruiser I'm sure would be valuable, especially if it's Home One, and I'm trying to think of a good way we could use the shuttle.  I'm sure we could make use of it somehow.

Would you be willing to upload some pics of your models for us?  It might give us an idea of how close we can get in our special effects.  Thanks for your contributions thus far, and if you don't mind, I'd like to add you to our list of involved team members in the first post.

Post
#557966
Topic
Collaborative Fanediting: An ROTJ Proposition (BACK ON TRACK WITH EMANSWFAN AT THE HELM--SEE POST 1488 OR OP FOR A LINK!)
Time

Ronster said:

I take the point about not "re-using footage" as a complete dismissal, I have been re-using footage to convey my ideas as I am not the best artist, and It would seem that instead of anyone who can do descent art saying I see what you mean but how about this because you are re-using footage.... It seems that people who are not doing the CGI are putting alot more effort and thought into this project and exploring more ideas with little or no visualising going on.

Thats how I feel about it frankly

Anyway with reference to the Vader Luke Duel on DSII...... Vader says "Obi-Wan has Taught you well" but Yoda has basically taught Luke much more atleast in this version so would it be worth inserting an audio clip of luke saying "Yoda" after this line to serve as a correction to Vader.... A bit more of a battle of words, and a revelation that Yoda was still alive atleast at the begining of the movie.

It bugged me when I did my re-cut but had not thought of it again until just now...

 Don't be too hard on them.  Everyone has personal lives.  I know Aalenfae has plans for when he gets back to his better computer.  But I think I will probably make today my last big posting day for a while, and hopefully I can spur everyone and get things rolling more independently.  I do feel like my energy has largely kept this moving, but soon it will have to move without me.  I know others contribute greatly as well, but clearly I've organized a great deal of this to give it direction, and unfortunately I just can't anymore.  I will have to try to give everyone one last big shove to hopefully keep things moving for a while without me.  But I'll save that for a separate post.

As for the Vader line, it never bothered me.  Vader references Obi-wan multiple times throughout the three films, obviously assuming that he did all the training.  I find your idea of Luke correcting with a "Yoda" line, but I'm not sure where it would go or how well it would fit.  You'd probably have to include it in one of your mockups.  If he were to correct him, it would seem to require additional dialogue because Vader would certainly be surprised to learn that Yoda was still alive.  It could spur a whole conversation, so I'm not sure it would be worth a correction.  But when you are able, and I know life's busy, maybe find a place to insert it and who knows, it may work great!

Good luck while you are away and busy.  We hope to see you frequently.  You too bring a great deal of energy to this thread as well as a number of ideas.  Hope to see you soon.

Post
#557870
Topic
Collaborative Fanediting: An ROTJ Proposition (BACK ON TRACK WITH EMANSWFAN AT THE HELM--SEE POST 1488 OR OP FOR A LINK!)
Time

Johannus said:

darth_ender said:

As for the space battle, I wish I could continue to be a big contributor here.  I would honestly be willing to do a hand illustrated storyboard to show my ideas.  Perhaps someone else might be willing to do so.  I still am rooting for the Victory Star Destroyers, and I think they still fit with Imperial uniformity.  I just love their design and I really don't like the Venator.  I'm not a GL basher like many here, but it annoys me that Lucas included the Venator and not the Victory in the PT.

I found this interesting website on how to construct a Victory SD.  Obviously it's not quite a movie quality model, but if the creator had the ambition to add more texture and it were used mostly in distance shots, it could be very passable.  For closeup shots, perhaps it could be enhanced a tad with CGI, given lights and a bit of texture and the like.

If we do include some sort of DSII plans stealing scene, it would need to involved new footage as Angel said.  I also think it would be best not to have Vader.  The Bothans are supposed to succeed after all, but only after many deaths.  If we include any such scene, we need to show this very thing: success at their mission with high casualties, and enough ambiguity to allow it to be part of the Emperor's master plan.

The model on this site is obviously much smaller than a studio scale model so you really couldn't have a lot of close ups without then improving the shots with cgi (though pretty basic stuff that could possibly be done mostly in photoshop). 

That said if you use it for fairly distant shots and choose your angles carefully you could probably get pretty good results.  If you are considering using physical models of a smaller scale then it would be a lot easier and cheaper as there are loads already available.  Also I have a lot which I have been trying to build up over the last year or so with a possible fan film style scene in mind so I would be happy to help out with those.  The only downside is I have a really good camera, but no video camera so stills would be fine but motion could be an issue.  If nothing else though they might be useful for a photo style storyboard?

Could not the exact same format be used to make a larger model?  Obviously not a studio model six feet in length or anything, but still of a respectable size to create a decent illusion from a distance?  And like you said, we could enhance it with CGI.

I can't seem to find a decent commercial Victory-class Star Destroyer anywhere.  They are a distinct design from those in the films, and I like them for their differences.

Are you really a skilled model builder?  That's awesome!  I personally think models would fill an important niche in our edit.  I'm sure there would be times when stills would suffice, though motion ability would be nice too.  Perhaps you will ultimately obtain a video camera (purchased or borrowed from a friend), or perhaps you could carefully package and mail a couple of your models to someone else.  I think this would be a fantastic way for you to contribute.  I was prepared to do this myself, but I doubt I'd do a very good job and as I've said repeatedly, busy life starts this Monday.  If you'd be willing to build these models, I would love you forever...in the most professional way imaginable of course :)

Victory Star Destroyer:

 

Imperial/Imperator-class Star Destroyer (the one we see in the movies:

 

Size comparison:

 

If you do build it, I suggest you look online for more pictures to get a decent idea of the full design, but this at least gives you a superficial comparison of the differences.  Let us know if you're willing to give it a shot :)

Post
#557810
Topic
Star Trek TNG on BluRay confirmed !
Time

Bingowings said:

I remember there were jokes at the time about the jellyfish people being gays because they were both blue, now one of them is pink.

Star Trek is the most homophobic Science Fiction series on the planet.

If this is the best you can offer as evidence, I'm afraid I'll have to disagree.  The episode The Outcast was nothing if not obviously supportive of gay rights.  Perhaps there is more evidence you could provide to indicate otherwise, but it's always been a rather liberal show.  The Original Series was pretty macho, so maybe that's what you refer to.

EDIT: Under background information in the link, it includes other episodes that address homosexuality as well.  It also says that the Enterprise series did indeed arouse people's ire over homosexuality.  Still, I think it is not a homophobic show in general.

Post
#557790
Topic
Collaborative Fanediting: An ROTJ Proposition (BACK ON TRACK WITH EMANSWFAN AT THE HELM--SEE POST 1488 OR OP FOR A LINK!)
Time

Well, we could do that, but I thought the point was to have him disrupting Luke's focus while he was working on the lightsaber.  The symbolism with Vader calling out to him and Luke looking pretty dark in his robes seems important to me.  But again I'm brainstorming realtime here.  Vader keeps calling, "Luke...Luke..."  Luke's X-wing approaches Tatooine...we see him flying through the canyon...which then fades to white, then fades back to the parked ships.  Hmmm...doesn't feel very Star Warsy, though...I don't know, but I'll keep thinking about it.

Post
#557770
Topic
Collaborative Fanediting: An ROTJ Proposition (BACK ON TRACK WITH EMANSWFAN AT THE HELM--SEE POST 1488 OR OP FOR A LINK!)
Time

Ronster said:

DominicCobb said:

MrInsaneA said:

Getting from Dagobah too Tatooine isn't hard....just have the X-Wing and Millenium Falcon do a fly-by. Then cut to Lue, C-3PO and R2-D2.

Sorry if I missed something, but I thought the Emperor went in between Dagobah and Tatooine.

what do you plan to put in the gap where the falcon and luke part ways... If they did not part ways then luke would look stupid with "I'm coming too" think about that...

Not to mention I think the Emperor's arrival fits best where it already is, IMO.

Post
#557768
Topic
Collaborative Fanediting: An ROTJ Proposition (BACK ON TRACK WITH EMANSWFAN AT THE HELM--SEE POST 1488 OR OP FOR A LINK!)
Time

I'm sorry Ron, but to answer your earlier question, I do think it would hurt to reuse footage.  I remember watching the very visually exciting Star Trek: Generations, with its high budget visuals and the like.  Then the Enterprise manages to blow up the Klingon Bird of Prey and my first thought was, "Hey!  That's the exact same effect they used when they won in Star Trek 6!  Not cool!"  It really is too obvious and cheap.  I think if you can disguise it well you can pull it off (for instance, showing the Falcons guns shooting from ANH, but altering the outside scenery).

MrInsaneA, Here's why I feel it disrupts the flow: Ben and Luke are having a heart to heart expository conversation.  It's slow but important.  The final line builds tension a tad.  Transition to ships flying.  ZOOM!  Over in 2 seconds, then we're back to a slow introduction to a new plot setup, either including Vader contact with Luke or simply beginning on Tatooine.  They're both not quick moving, but again are rather expository in nature.  Without some way of effectively transition between the two, it feels rushed and unsatisfactory.  I really don't like it that much.

That said, I think it can be made more successful if the transition is slowed down a tad.  Follow me a moment while I ramble.  After Ben's line, "You must face Darth Vader again," intense music builds as we see Luke's x-wing departing from Dagobah.  We transition back to the Death Star from outside.  We then see Vader brooding while staring out a viewport, as he so often does when he's bored.  He turns and leaves the bridge.  He walks down the hall and gets on a turboshaft, listening to a lounge mix of Sting's "Fields of Gold."  Next shot he's in his meditation chamber and is reaching out for Luke.  Instead of immediately showing Luke, we hear Vader continuing on, but we see the planet Tatooine slowly getting larger.  Next we see an outside shot of the Tatooine cave, like this:

Vader's voice maybe continues to resonate as if reaching through space and finally we continue with Luke's lightsaber construction, etc.  Maybe such would be a sufficient spacing for the transition, but I do feel something needs to stretch these slower, plot-building scenes out a bit.

(Obviously you wouldn't use the humorous stuff, but I'm serious about the rest of this outline.)

Post
#557751
Topic
Collaborative Fanediting: An ROTJ Proposition (BACK ON TRACK WITH EMANSWFAN AT THE HELM--SEE POST 1488 OR OP FOR A LINK!)
Time

It's not so much the visuals as it is the story.  In my mind, the final shot on Dagobah would be Ben/Luke discussing that fun stuff, and the final line would be, "You must face Darth Vader again," moved from earlier.  To simply go from there to X-wing/Falcon flyby to Tatooine seems too abrupt.  It's the way TPM handled scene transitions, and if I could only fix one thing in that movie, that would probably be it; the movie feels rushed and we never feel like we're absorbing anything important from of any scenes.  Many fanedits seem to do the same thing, since it's far easier to remove elements from the original film than to add new ones.  Their edits result in the same feeling, and it doesn't allow for proper mood shifts in my mind.  I wouldn't want our ROTJ edit to end up the same way.

Post
#557741
Topic
Collaborative Fanediting: An ROTJ Proposition (BACK ON TRACK WITH EMANSWFAN AT THE HELM--SEE POST 1488 OR OP FOR A LINK!)
Time

Gosh, my last comment was written in a hurry and involved some copying and pasting between Word and the website.  It looks ugly and it appears that English is my second language!

Sluggo, I believe we are leaning towards cutting it out, which pleases me as well.  Glad to see you back, and hope you'll continue to follow and contribute to this project.

So again, how are we going to get from Dagobah to Tatooine?

I have to be honest, Ronster, I liked how you portrayed Lando's death.  I agree now that his death will not fit in the story well enough, but if it were included, you gave it some good emotion.  I skimmed through your whole rough cut and it looked better IMO, but I still like the original format the best.  Still, with what you were aiming for, I think it came off far more successfully this time :)

There is no in-between on his death.  People voted that he would live, but the in-between was if to delay our knowledge that he lives.  MrInsaneA likes at least my concept of such a delay (I'm not sure if that was the original idea), and changed his vote, so that is fairly settled now with him living, but we think he died for a few moments longer.

Yes, there are major problems with Boba Fett.  As a whole we are not entirely sure of the best way to deal with him.  Remove him completely?  Include him and allow him to live?  How?  Give him a cooler death?  How?  Probably our toughest nut to crack in the entire story.

As for the space battle, I wish I could continue to be a big contributor here.  I would honestly be willing to do a hand illustrated storyboard to show my ideas.  Perhaps someone else might be willing to do so.  I still am rooting for the Victory Star Destroyers, and I think they still fit with Imperial uniformity.  I just love their design and I really don't like the Venator.  I'm not a GL basher like many here, but it annoys me that Lucas included the Venator and not the Victory in the PT.

I found this interesting website on how to construct a Victory SD.  Obviously it's not quite a movie quality model, but if the creator had the ambition to add more texture and it were used mostly in distance shots, it could be very passable.  For closeup shots, perhaps it could be enhanced a tad with CGI, given lights and a bit of texture and the like.

If we do include some sort of DSII plans stealing scene, it would need to involved new footage as Angel said.  I also think it would be best not to have Vader.  The Bothans are supposed to succeed after all, but only after many deaths.  If we include any such scene, we need to show this very thing: success at their mission with high casualties, and enough ambiguity to allow it to be part of the Emperor's master plan.

Post
#557729
Topic
The Enderverse (WAS: Finally! Ender's Game emerges from Development Hell!)
Time

Yeah, there's no way to portray the film less than PG-13 without serious injustice.  On the other hand, I hope it doesn't get an R rating.  Gritty is how it needs to be, but not overly horrific.  I really like the cast lineup thus far.  Butterfield would do an excellent job, I feel.  Kingsley and Ford are two of my favorite actors, and I was impressed with Butterfield when I saw Hugo.

Post
#557724
Topic
The Enderverse (WAS: Finally! Ender's Game emerges from Development Hell!)
Time

Periodically I check on any progress being made on the Ender's Game film.  After many years waiting in limbo, it looks like they will finally actually make a movie based on the events of my life! ;)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1731141/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ender%27s_Game_(film)#Film

Honestly, I love the books and look forward to an actual film.

Post
#557641
Topic
Collaborative Fanediting: An ROTJ Proposition (BACK ON TRACK WITH EMANSWFAN AT THE HELM--SEE POST 1488 OR OP FOR A LINK!)
Time

Ronster said:

Great Work Darth_Ender!

Most ideas outright win which keeps things simple for direction and is nice to see how all the ideas fayred up.... Interesting way to look at it now it's all on paper.

Had a bit of a bad day yesterday as had a row with my landlord and am getting evicted from my flat soon but anyway I re-did my rough-cut to take my mind off things, and improved alot and tried some new ideas it is mostly structure, so even if anything I did in it like Lando getting blown up which got voted against you can now see how it might of looked... I actually pulled it off resonably well with what I am working with bit of a fluke but anyway here are the main changes and link.

http://www.mediafire.com/?286b58g9cda2gvb

41m 28s

1. Trimmed Luke & Leia + Father & Son Vader flashback on Endor.... The idea is to show anger and anguish, and the glass cracking behind as he stares toward the camera this him using the force and will be a cgi shot for that... To show Vader is boiling over inside, not sure if people will like this idea but I gave it a go none the less.

2. Madine dies my way

3.Restructured so that Shield generator now is destroyed before the executor crashes and this is lukes exit point. Padded the bunker with prision cell block footage ANH and vaders death

4.Change Ackbars lines to "the Shield it down! concentrate all firepower.... we need to give those fighters more time"

5. Cut lots of silly Ewok

6. Millennium falcon is destryed you need to imagine it's in flames while it flys towrds the fleet and the DSII blows up but after that it is quite a blissful yet sad momment. Princess Leia Theme added.

7. quite a few other subtle changes, bit more streamlined,. but inclusion of Darth Enders Shield generator hot-wire into base and possible fix to the smoke and lasers everywhere comment.

I hope you give it a try or even a flick through, I'm quite happy with it, I would like to add more to it like space battle ideas but not right now, the main thing was getting it correct to flow properly as Darth_Ender did point out a pretty big failing that I had things a bit the wrong way round.

Hope you Enjoy it :)

 

 

 

 

I'll give it a whirl later.  Got to run to an appointment.  I promise I'll watch and comment :)

Post
#557640
Topic
Collaborative Fanediting: An ROTJ Proposition (BACK ON TRACK WITH EMANSWFAN AT THE HELM--SEE POST 1488 OR OP FOR A LINK!)
Time

So now the question is how to implement many of these things.  While some think I held the vote too early, I'm not going to be around enough to keep the energy going, and we already have a bunch of things to do.  Let's examine the things we want to do:

Fismanlee, you said you had musical friends, one who used to be a member here.  Can you ask him/them to join our team.  It'd be good to have someone implement this music in some way.  There's not a huge hurry because music should probably come last when the timing of the edit is all worked out, but if you could at least get him involved or interested, it'd be nice to have that help committed?

The Death Star Theme, and possibly other ANH themes can be woven in around the Death Star and in conjunction with Imperial March.  In many ways I feel like they are two sides of the same coin, both serving as themes to the Empire in ANH and ESB.  In ROTJ, it'd be nice to see them working together.

Swing Swing Swing still needs discussion.  A lot of people wanted to keep Lapti Nek.  I actually prefer the English version on From Star Wars to Jedi better.  But I would probably prefer another song altogether.  Lapti Nek won out over Jedi Rocks, but still folks are open to replacing it, so composing a new piece or finding a suitable replacement (maybe already found in Swing x3) should still be explored
I know I already voted, but I think MrInsaneA is selling me on Duel of the Fates, even if it is only a subtle motif.  If this is to be implemented we would again need a composer.
I'm interested in what alternate composition would work in place of the '97 celebration music.  Frankly I really like that music and don't see a need for something else.  And the 97 music won, but the completely new music suggestion was never even brought up, so I'm interested in what ideas people have.
Coruscant was not popular in many cases.  The only one that barely made it was an opening scene to steal the DSII plans from there.  I think that means we should discuss it before we actually start filming anything, but those who advocate the idea might want to start researching how to obtain costumes and the like.
Some liked the idea of a different means of stealing the plans with a space battle, but I received several comments saying they didn't want a rehash of the ANH opening.  So while this item lost, it's not necessarily gone for good, and its advocates should probably devise a new means of establishing a scene where the plans are stolen.
The most popular opening was having Vader first, then go to Dagobah, then go to Tatooine.  That's fine, but I worry that some decent bridge between the two would be needed to signify time has passed.  It could be another scene.  Or perhaps simply some way of showing the flight away from Dagobah and the arrival at Tatooine, plus the very popular Beggar's Canyon idea.  Maybe it would be enough.  But someone really needs to think through how to implement this story-wise with existing footage or easily created material.
Ray_afraid's idea of Executor, Dagobah, Death Star, Tatooine was a winner, but nearly as popular.  It seems to solve the above mentioned problem, but also seems to create other problems related to pacing.  For instance, to show the Executor near the Death Star, the Vader in his meditation chamber trying to reach Luke...doesn't seem to be a proper intro to the third film in the franchise.  We've got to become reacquainted with Vader, seeing him looking out the bridge window and then marching to his chamber, for instance.  Another problem involves the fairly lengthy time on Dagobah, then returning to Vader's shuttle finally arriving at the Death Star.  What took him so long to get from ship to station?  I like this idea, but these are simply concerns that might need explaining.

 

Boushh was an interesting idea, and one that might be discussed further if we do include a Coruscant surface plans heist, but it did not win and maybe we should just move on.

I'm not fond of the plans arriving to the Rebel Alliance, but it won the vote pretty significantly.  We need to fill out that idea if we are to implement it.  How will the plans get to Mon Mothma or the Alliance?  If we do include it, it almost seems to require a new opening scene of their being stolen.  But it does serve to fill in between Dagobah and Tatooine, which we need.
So how will Luke close the Rancor gate?  The suggestion was to have a close up of his eyes closing, some Force theme music, and the gate collapsing.  It could be enough, but we have to make sure it doesn't break the pace of an otherwise intense scene.
Looks like few like the Sarlaac beak but enjoyed the more mobile tentacles.  Aalenfae had the very interesting idea to change his old rubber throat to some real looking throat like you see in those nasogastric camera videos.  I thought that was a cool idea.
Most wanted Max Rebo's band removed, but a few wanted it kept, and again there was a suggestion to simply make them more realistic.  In my mind, if someone is willing to film similar looking but better costumes/puppets, or if someone is willing to animate or new ones, or if someone can simply digitally improve the existing ones, this may be the way to go.  That could be a compromise, or we may have to simply cut them.
Most want a tougher Vader.  The primary way I can think of to do this was suggested by...I can't remember, but have Vader choke Jerjerrod and then demand to see the Emperor now (or saying nothing) instead of awaiting his convenience.  I personally prefer demanding to see him now, because he not only looks tougher towards his underling, but he is clearly standing up to his boss as well.  I think someone with a deep voice can say the line, and we can digitally filter it to give it the JEJ/Vader quality.
Most want to keep Boba Fett, though cutting him was pretty popular.  But there was more debate about what to do to him than any other discussion point.  So what do we do?  Many wanted him to live.  How would we show this?  My thought would be to include him taking off in Slave I during the part where we see that frog thing catch the rat during the Tatooine sunset.  But that also leaves a loose thread that the story almost begs to tie up before the end of the film.  How would we tie it up?  How else could we keep him alive?  There was also a very close vote to have him die a cooler death, being killed (decapitated) by Luke, mirroring his father's death.  I can see how this might be easier to pull off, having Luke behead him when he cuts his blaster.  But he still seems to be going down like a punk, as someone said.  How else could we have Luke get him.  Ronster had some interesting ideas.  How could we more successfully edit them into the battle, if that's the route we take?  What digital changes would we have to make (i.e. to have Fett be the one who shoots Luke in the hand)?
People also wanted Han to deliberately hit his pack.  Could this be pulled off?  How would this play into the other ideas?
People also wanted Fett to do more.  How could we successfully implement these things?  I'm not opposed to them as long we can do them and have the people able and willing to do them.  When would we include a flame-throwing Fett, for instance?  What about having him shoot out of Sarlaac's mouth?  Can that even be successfully pulled off?
We need to start gathering sounds to dub the Ewoks.  They need to growl and sound more vicious and less cute.  The language thing also was popular.  This didn't mean to have them chattering in Basic/English, but simply to say stuff to each other so we remember that these are intelligent creatures.  Where could we find a suitable Ewok language/possible replacement?
Most wanted Ewok's first visit to be removed, or at least shortened.  I think Spence had the right idea, showing Wicket's feet, and showing Leia on the ground, and leaving the rest to our imagination.  What do you guys think?  The helmets in the village were very popular.  I don't think it'd be too hard to pull that off digitally, and the helmets being hit during the celebration can be used as well.
Most wanted to keep the present format of cutting between the various battles during the climax, but there were some interested in changing it.  I think it's a decided issue, especially since cutting between the three makes all three battles feel shorter and less intense, and it removes the simultaneous climactic moments.
The ships thing is a big dilemma.  Practically everyone wanted more Mon Cal cruisers.  Few said they specifically wanted Victory star destroyers, though aalenfae indicated willingness to include them or something like them.  But many simply said "yes" to the vote for the mentioned ships, so I assumed they meant both Mon Cals and Victories.  Mention was made of other ships as well, which I think would be cool, such as B-wings (which I think most agree with) and other Rebel vessels.  Would this all be CGI?  Is anyone willing to construct and film real models?  What ships will we use?  I think this needs much more discussion.  I hope the Home One is larger than all the other Mon Cal cruisers.
Killing Madine was very popular.  I've offered a means of doing this.  Any other thoughts?  Anyone want to create a rough edit of how it could be shown?
Y-wings actually serving as bombers was quite popular.  This would probably require CGI.  This again seems to fit with my recommendation for the heavier armored Y-wings, but that goes with the above comments.
The majority want Lando to live.  But people are torn on how to make it appear as if he dies.  Any thoughts?  I think the easiest way to do this would simply be to drag out his exit, taking brief clips from the flight to the DSII core and putting them at the exit, having the flames surround him further, making it take longer for him to come out, and finally show him spewing from the flaming exit point.  This would only need a few extra seconds, maybe a line to Wedge like, "There are flames all around me!  We're not going to make it!"  Pause, no exit, flames erupting from DSII exit, then finally a more severely scorched Falcon bursts out shouting, "Yeehaa!"
Anakin's Force ghost at the pyre scene was voted down.  What were you guys thinking?!  Actually, there was a suggestion to show it at both the celebration and the pyre.  Also, I believe aalenfae is working on a mock up, but if most people oppose, he may just have to share it with those who liked it and wanted to keep it and we can put it in our own versions.
It shouldn't be too hard to put the pyre scene at the end after the celebrations, but it would be nice to see a mock up.  It remains on Tatooine.
I'm trying to get everyone's wheels turning because we can discuss the story for the rest of our lives and never accomplish anything.  I think we need to start actually making the movie.  The biggest holdups should be the time-consuming CGI.  I think we can complete several of these ideas early on and make a framework for the movie that the CGI additions can fill in.  Please provide your thoughts.

Post
#557604
Topic
Collaborative Fanediting: An ROTJ Proposition (BACK ON TRACK WITH EMANSWFAN AT THE HELM--SEE POST 1488 OR OP FOR A LINK!)
Time

I hope these votes will focus our discussion now on how to implement the firm winners, try to argue for the close votes, and focus on new ideas.  I think we should let the points that die lay to rest.  This is hard for me because I really like the idea of Anakin appearing at the pyre scene still, but we need to move on.  But remember, even if our ideas are shot down, we can still complete the effects and modify the edit we create together to better suit our personal tastes :)

Post
#557602
Topic
Collaborative Fanediting: An ROTJ Proposition (BACK ON TRACK WITH EMANSWFAN AT THE HELM--SEE POST 1488 OR OP FOR A LINK!)
Time

Length:

1.      At least 120 minutes to avoid too short a film – 10 to 0, a clear winner!

 

Music:

1.      Across the Stars – 4 ½ to 6.  Not quite.

2.      Death Star Theme (Vader’s approach to DSII) – 8 to 0, a clear winner

3.      Swing Swing Swing in place of Lapti Nek/Jedi Rocks – 4 ½ to 5, a near tie, and probably worth more discussion

4.      Duel of the Fates (space battle) – 4 ½ to 4, a near tie, automatically up for more discussion is needed.

5.      Stick with ’97 celebration music as opposed to Yub Nub [suggestions for alternate songs brought up] – 9 to 2, though there is discussion for original or alternate pieces as well.

6.      Lapti Nek instead of Jedi Rocks (but with SE footage) – 6 ½ to 1, pretty clear.

 

Coruscant:

1.      Opening scene stealing DSII info on surface – 4 ½ to 4, near tie, automatically up for more discussion

 2.      Endor is a moon of Coruscant – 3 to 6, not enough to win.

 3.      Blow up or threaten to blow up Coruscant – 3 to 8, not enough.

4.      Move final Luke/Vader confrontation to Coruscant surface – 3 to 8, not enough.

 

Opening/Early scenes:

1.      Opening scene stealing DSII and trying to flee in ship, pursued by star destroyer, escape pod landing on planet surface – 4 ½ to 5, near tie, probably should be up for more discussion.

2.      Opening on Dagobah with minimal alterations to that scene, then on to Vader’s arrival at DSII, then on to Tatooine – 3 to 7, not enough

3.      Opening with Vader arriving at DSII, then on to Dagobah, then on to Tatooine. – 6 to 3, seems to be the preferred format.

 4.      Open with Executor near DSII, Vader mentally contacts Luke, Luke is in cave on Dagobah, back to DSII and Vader arrives, back to Dagobah – 6 to 5, also pretty popular though strongly opposed as well, should be discussed further.

5.      Include Boushh (later we discover it’s Leia) as bounty hunter helping steal DSII info – 4 ½ to 6, not quite enough, but could be discussed further.

 6.      DSII should be no where near Coruscant – 6 ½ to 1, clearly not a popular choice.

 7.      Include a scene somewhere between Dagobah and Tatooine that shows the DSII info being delivered to the Alliance, either to Mon Mothma or just to a ship – Y – 6 ½ to 3, rather popular choice.

 8.      Include a scene as padding after Luke parts ways after rescuing Han where he goes back to Dagobah and goes to the Dark Side Cave – 3 to 8, no go.

9.      Luke flies through Beggar’s Canyon as he arrives at Tatooine – 6 ½ to 3, pretty popular.

 10.  Luke’s conversation with Obi-Wan takes place in Obi-Wan’s hut – 4 ½ to 7, probably not going to be included.

  

Tatooine/Rescuing Han:

1.      Luke uses the Force to close the Rancor gate, or at least to hurl the skull – 11 to 0, clear winner.

2.      Remove the Sarlaac beak but keep the SE tentacles – 8 ½ to 2, clear winner.

3.      Cut Max Rebo’s band (still include music, but don’t show them) – 6 ½ to 4, pretty clear winner.

  

Vader:

1.      Show a stronger Vader, not such a pushover to the Emperor (unspecified how) – 8 to 3, people want a tougher guy

2.      Obi-Wan communicates with Vader – 2 to 9, no go.

3.      A quicker-to-violence with underlings, still subservient to Emperor Vader – 8 ½ to 2, sounds like the way to go.

  

Boba Fett:

1.      Cut out Fett completely – 4 ½ to 6, fairly close, might want some continued discussion.

 2.      Luke kills Fett, decapitates him – 5 ½ to 5, very close, automatically up for further debate.

 3.      Han deliberately hits Boba Fett’s jetpack – 6 ½ to 3, a pretty clear winner.

 4.      More Boba Fett action, i.e. flamethrower, jetting out of Sarlaac’s mouth, etc. – 5 ½ to 5, pretty close, automatically up for further debate.

 5.      Fett delivers DS info to Rebellion (as treachery, or as an independent contractor) – 2 ½ to 8, not gonna happen.

 6.      Boba Fett survives the destruction of Jabba’s barge – 5 ½ to 4, automatically up for further debate due to the maybes, but otherwise pretty close.

 7.      Boba Fett allows Jabba’s death to take over his criminal empire – 3 to 8, not the will of the people.

 

Ewoks:

1.      Make them tougher by cutting cute actions, redubbing with more aggressive sounds – 10 ½ to 0, very popular.

2.      Give them vampire-like fangs – 3 ½ to 8, not very popular.

3.      Ewoks actually use more language – 6 to 4 fairly close, might want to continue discussion.

 4.      Remove Wicket’s first encounter with Leia to add mystery – 6 ½ to 3, a good win.

 5.      Show Ewoks with stormtrooper helmets in village – 11 to 0, very popular choice.

 

Relationships:

1.      Cut indications of Han’s jealousy, as this was taken care of in ESB – 4 to 6, probably not close enough, but could be discussed further.

 2.      Cut Luke telling Leia they are siblings (but not Obi-Wan telling Luke) – 1 ½ to 9, no go.

 

Battle of Endor:

1.      Concentrate the various cuts, focusing first on action on DSII, then cover the surface battle, then cover the space battle, instead of jumping between the three – 3 to 5, probably going to keep current format.

 2.      Include many more ships, including more Mon Cal cruisers and Victory-class star destroyers – This one was very confusing with the various comments in people’s votes.  Basically, it’s clear people want more ships and more fighting, but what ships are included is a big bone of contention and this should probably be up for vote in the next round (whenever that is)  Again, here is the raw data: Y Mon Cal – 7; Y B-wings – 2; Y Victories – 4; N Mon Cal - 0; N Victories – 3; M to all – 1; Y – other – 2

If you said yes, I usually (not perfectly consistently) included that for everything, but then I realized that might not be a fair way to count it.  Most wanted Mon Cals.  A few objected to Victories, but not enough to actually vote it down, some suggested even more ships, pointing out the need for B-wings, some suggested more variety to the Rebels and more uniformity to the Imperials.

 3.      Include General Madine scenes, and have his Mon Cal cruiser be the first destroyed by the DSII – 7 ½ to 0, rather popular choice.

         

Executor:

1.      A-wing fires missile at bridge – 3 ½ to 6, probably not going to happen.

 2.      Y-wing uses bombs on Executor – 9 ½ to 0, very popular, and also a suggestion to bomb the DSII to open the point where the ships enter the superstructure.

  

Lando:

1.      Let him die in DSII explosion – 3 to 8, I was initially very torn on this, but decided to let him live, as it fits better and would be hard to pull off the emotion of it.  A clear winner.

2.      Let him live as in original film – 8 to 2, a clear winner.

 3.      Make it appear as if he dies at first, then show later that he survives – 6 to 4, changed to reflect MrInsaneA's changed mind once he had a clearer understanding. 

Ending:

1.      Anakin’s Force ghost appears at pyre scene instead of with Yoda and Obi-Wan – 3 ½ to 6, I really liked this idea, but it looks like it’s voted down.

 2.      Put pyre scene at very end, after celebrations – 6 ½ to 3, a pretty clear win.

 3.      Remove Anakin’s ghost completely – 2 ½ to 7, not going to happen.

 4.      Pyre scene takes place on Tatooine instead of Endor – 2 ½ to 7, not going to happen, darn it.

 5.      Remove celebrations throughout galaxy, only showing them on Endor – 1 to 8, the celebrations stay.

 

Post
#557597
Topic
Collaborative Fanediting: An ROTJ Proposition (BACK ON TRACK WITH EMANSWFAN AT THE HELM--SEE POST 1488 OR OP FOR A LINK!)
Time

MrInsaneA said:

Y'know, I just found the original version of Duel of the Fates from TPM, and I have to say IMO it's a little more OT-ish then the final version. My idea wasn't to have Duel of the Fates over any pre-existing space battle footage, but over some new footage we may create. Perhaps when we have some of that new footage available (God knows when) I'll make a concept video to see if this different version of Duel of the Fates would fit in well.

Because I really, really, really like Duel of the Fates. :P

 So do I.  I think it'd be a nice motif as well, though I also see the concern of too much PT influence.  You should upload the version you found for all of us to sample.  I don't think any idea is completely thrown out, and perhaps we can bring it up again later.

EDIT: Actually, according to my scheme, it barely won (with help from the maybes), so it's automatically up for more discussion.