darth_ender

@ray_afraid, again, I agree.  Various short films could be quite interesting to expand upon plot points without actually inserting them into ROTJ.  Perhaps a thread should be started for that very purpose.  And it need not be limited to ROTJ subplots; perhaps other points people wish could be expanded upon should be filmed, like the wampa subplot in ESB or how the original DSI plans came into Princess Leia's hands.  Those would be really interesting projects to see.

Ray_afraid, I think that's a fair comment, and as much as I enjoy pondering many of these ideas, a big part of me agrees with you.  Yes, we are trying to slow the pace (which is why I especially like my tiny little version of the Bothans delivering the plans--slows it a bit, but not too dramatic), but I worry a whole new scene would be too out of place.  I like the ideas, but I just don't see how to make them fit.  Obviously I like my ideas, but even my own little scene gives me pause as feeling out of place.  The only reason I wrote it was to go along with the vote.

Somehow Bothans delivering plans to the Rebels was an idea that we successfully voted upon in spite of voting down other Bothan ideas.  A lot of this is quite complex, which is why I wrote a short scene (and in my opinion, a short scene in this situation is a good thing).  However, as I've stated, the votes are guidelines and not rules, and we therefore can change what needs to be changed.  We've gotten a lot more participation of late, so the next vote may be quite a bit bigger.  I myself prefer simple but meaningful changes.

So speaking of changes, I'm still working on the script (I know, I said I'd be done yesterday, so sue me).  One point made by Ronster with regard to my cut of the Endor battle (and thus my script, as they are similar) is that it took too long for the fighters to enter the station.  I'm thinking that we should include a brief dogfight scene (as discussed above) where the various Rebel fighters try to gain access to the superstructure and the Imperials try to prevent that.  So according to my script, the Ewoks and Rebels have the Imperials on the run on the surface, Chewie and a couple teddy bears get the idea to hijack a walker, but we don't know that yet.  Cut to Death Star, fighters shooting each other.  Falcon and several fighters also are scrambling to find the entrance to the superstructure.  This explains part of the holdup and can include more of the dogfighting and intercom chatter you guys were talking about earlier.  Then cut back to Chewie and Ewoks swinging onto the AT-ST and committing grand theft walker.  Thoughts?

We talked about including Vader on the Death Star reaching out to Luke.  If done right, it feels like a brief but worthy transition to me.  And even then, my little scene here could fit just before Vader reaches out to Luke.  It can be altered further to include even less Bothan, and it even fits your desire for ambiguity.

Well, my little scene involves few visuals, is short, gets across any additional information anybody wanted, is simply a clue to the story's progression and involves no emotional connection, and fits in with the recent vote.  I think it may be all we need, but I'm not sure everyone liked it.  I like the idea of showing simultaneous DS constructions, but I'm not sure how to pull that off...yet :)

Then they could do some 19th century back story called Oil on Canvas.

Hmmm...that's pretty interesting.  I know a lot of people aren't going for the Bothan opening, but that's a fascinating idea.  As that weird guy said in Contact: "Why build one of something when you can build two for twice the price?"  Perhaps we could include some sort of line that alludes to that.  I'd find it interesting.

Ronster said:

darth_ender said:

I really like the idea of radio chatter.  Only question is how to show it.  They were trying to set a furious pace when making the film, and the rapid switching gives that feel.  Unfortunately it leaves little time to include chatter over the radio.  We need to seek out parts where enough focused is left on one particular cockpit or bridge where we can insert others' lines over the radio.

Well I meant.... say in one of your proposed new shots say... Use a cockpit view and whatever that is going on outside the window is new, with radio chatter say or a face shot of wedge in cockpit or even a hud with radio chatter.... targetting computers are also good for this and Gunners on the falcon... There are plenty of opportunities and will make the CGI exterior shots perhaps less intensive and break things up nicely. Even Madine looking about with coms chatter would work... You need to create the opportunities but it will help the exterior CGI shots run smoother with perhaps less work too.

Blowing up Fish face in cockpit would be easy too :) lol

And I would also like a bit of dog fight action like from ANH especially with the Targeting HUD Graphics it would make it feel a bit more  like the original and TBH I think this is one of the main things missing

Many good ideas here.  I'll include them in the vote.  I'm still updating the script from the last vote (yeah, I know I'm late), and I'm making sure the changes I make can actually be incorporated.  I really do like the idea of more dogfighting, radio chatter, and HUDs.

I really like the idea of radio chatter.  Only question is how to show it.  They were trying to set a furious pace when making the film, and the rapid switching gives that feel.  Unfortunately it leaves little time to include chatter over the radio.  We need to seek out parts where enough focused is left on one particular cockpit or bridge where we can insert others' lines over the radio.

Hey Ron, good to see you!  I have to agree that I think the opening will probably have to stay fairly traditional, the biggest change being Dagobah's relocation to just after the Vader opening.

I like some of your phrasing for the opening and I will see if I can include it somehow effectively.

Swiper.

Pennsylvania Jones's old obsession with NIMH or Pennsylvania Jones's apparent current obsession with pre-K educational programs ;)

Yeah, but Bingowings hadn't had the chance to present the idea and I wanted him to provide his arguments.  I think it still remains a no go, but at least he was able to tell us about it and show us the video.

FYI everyone, I'm for cutting Max Rebo's band, as was a majority in the last vote.  However, a majority also voted to keep Lapti Nek as background music.  I guess there are two versions of this song.  This version (slowed down a bit in this particular video, unfortunately) is the version I prefer, and is not the version I grew up with.  I don't know where this one came from, but I think it sounds far better than what my ears are used to.

I have to be honest, Boba Fett providing the plans is definitely an interesting idea, but it does seem too out of character, and even when the Rebels work with shady characters, I doubt they'd go for a guy who was so very directly involved in bringing down some of their heroes.  Your reasoning is sound in the real world, but for the way Star Wars established the Fett character, it feels very out of place to me.  But hey, I will include it in the vote, as many people may go for the idea.  This sort of discussion is a good thing because it helps us think outside the box.

What do you guys think about including some Han/Lando reconciliation over the intercom while Luke's in his X-wing to replace Han's "Thanks for coming after me" lines?

Okay, let me get the updated script done.  I will try to distinguish what was changed and what was not so those who've already read it won't have to reread everything and can simply skim to the different stuff.  I should have it tonight.

No, the discussion is not dead.  I included a new scene that would show one briefly, and based on the previous vote.  I truly like your idea, tim, but I worry about pulling that one off.  What Johannus said becomes exponentially more true the more we show.  Nevertheless, I don't think we need to rule anything out for a long time.  We just need to brainstorm how to do it.

Johannus said:

I don't think we should see Fett delivering the plans because unless we can get across the idea he is getting something worthwhile out of it then it would just seem like he is changing sides.  Admittedly a bounty hunter should be on his own side really but given the rivalry with Han and the fact he was working for Vader in ESB it seems like too big a change for me. 

Also I would avoid making the Bothans furry.  I know that is from the EU and it might only require filming a gloved hand, but so far I don't think there has been a single edit that uses newly filmed footage of characters (though feel free to correct me if I am mistaken).  It would be nice to be the first to do this but I think it would be much more realistic to find a clip of a hand reaching out to a console from Star Trek or Stargate or something like that and editing it to look more Star Wars, and there are going to be far more human clips than furry humanoid clips.  This would only require people to watch a lot of dvds or tv and eventually spot a suitable clip (not too unrealistic) rather than finding access to a good quality video camera, lights, and props.  If we could film new shots then it would be great to get some shots of Luke in black for new Dagobah scenes where we avoid seeing his face, or new commando and stormtrooper closeups against a forest background to add padding to the Endor battle.  But to be honest I just don't think its anywhere near as likely as it is more fan film than fan edit and fan films tend to cost a lot more money to make. 

Sorry if I am sounding a little negative here, I would love to think we could, but I think it is something to consider last as it would be the most work intensive of all the ideas suggested. 

Having said that I still would love to see a scene with the Bothans stealing the plans, just let Bothans be human to make clips easier to source.

Well, I am open to anything of course, but I personally think it would be least distracting to those familiar with the design if we were consistent.  But this is not my edit, it's ours.  What say you?

I understand the desire not to wrap every single thing up, but by having him live, it's already an invitation to reintroduce him into the story.  To have him bring the plans to the Rebellion not only preserves his dignity, but in fact raises his villainy lavel at least 30 points.  Even if he survives, good storytelling almost requires that we know what happens to him.  Even the bad guys who survive in the movies usually escape to who knows where at the end, but Fett would simply disappear in the middle of the movie.  If nothing else, he should seen during the Battle of Endor, then he chickens out and jumps to lightspeed.  Too much head-scratching at the end of a story is no good either.

Good to see you, Stewie.

Now that I'm aware of this, I have downloaded the torrent.  Hopefully he responds and reseeds.

Okay, I just had a break and used it to watch the little scenario.  I especially like the Ackbar/Fett chat.

It's an interesting scenario, but to me personally it raises the exact same issue that all other survival scenarios do...what happens to Boba Fett from there?  It clearly seems that if he lives, he should get what's coming to him later down the road.  I wish we could somehow have him engage Han in a shootout on Endor or something, like two cowboys doing a quick draw.  After all, the sweet justice of revenge would be satisfied in that scenario.  Though not quite as fitting, a dogfight with the Falcon and Lando piloting would probably be easier to execute, and Lando clearly has some beef with the guy as well, since he led the Empire to Cloud City.

If Fett lives, I truly feel it's a thread that needs some tying up, no matter how he survives.  We'd have to think out thoroughly how to tie that up if we would truly keep it.

Obviously such a sub-plot would negate the need for my Bothan scene.

Bingowings said:

I'm still keen on this scenario.

It give the nerds their Boba love but also gives the guy his dignity back, not to mention his job.

I'll check it out when I'm not in class.  I'm all for some improvement, and for me personally as well as for the whole group, we seem to be rather indecisive on how to best handle him.

EDIT: ^You probably like it because I borrowed so heavily from yours ;)  Thanks for the compliment.

fishmanlee said:

ESB: "It is a dark time for the rebellion"
ROTJ: "The Alliance Is Doomed!"

They sure don't match! ;|

AHA!  I'm redeemed.  I actually confess plaigerizing...Bingowings I think...from the wishlist when creating this crawl.  I looked to his sample for ideas.

Captain Antilles said:

darth_ender said:

The Alliance is doomed!

I don't really like this... It doesn't quite match the tone used in the OT opening crawls and sort of reminds of the "War!" and "Evil is everywhere" lines used in Episode III.

Fair enough.  I'm trying to make it seem deadly serious, however.  Any suggestions?

We have indeed rearranged it so that Dagobah comes in very early on.  I agree about the placement as not leaving enough time.  I wondered if it might effectively appear as if enough time has passed (after all, in ANH they plug in R2, see a horrible Death Star schematic that doesn't match the real thing, see the Death Star approaching Yavin, then we go on to the Yavin briefing.  However, I again agree, it might fit better earlier.  Sluggo, I really feel it fortunate that you are here.  Please download my earlier script (you can find it starting at the bottom of the first post and following the Yellow Brick Road), and telling me where you think it may fit best.

As for Bothan acting, I thought it might be easier to simply use costumes and human dubbing.  That way we don't have to pay their outrageous contractual demands either.  I tried to write the scene so we would actually see very little of the Bothan himself, only revealing his hands (can be decent costume gloves) and eyes (probably not too hard for CGI, and possibly even reused from some other film).

Last minute change.  Now fixed :)