Personally I'm for it. I don't think it should play an extremely prominent role, but including it as one or two extra ships they managed to pull together would seem quite interesting to me, as well as fitting for the Rebels who just take whatever they can get their hands on.
What moron made that video? I can't believe someone thought that was a good idea...oh, wait ;)
@Ronster, I just want to say that you are very right. We can't debate the story forever. I had a plan to hold three votes, perfect the script based on those votes, have the majority approve that perfected script, and let the editors follow it as closely as possible in the other thread.
Gosh, that scifi3d.com site really has given me a great deal more hope than I had before about the possibilities of this edit.
Aalenfae, I'm sorry to have pulled you away from this edit, but I'm so glad we have you. You really have a great talent.
Alright, I sent out the invite again. Let me know if you experience any difficulties. After a few folks get registered, I will provide the url to all. That way, everyone will be able to keep up on the discussion, but only the actual editors will be able to comment. When someone else seems to have an essential skill in the actual editing of the film, you can request to become a member, and we'll see about making it so. I know this sounds elite and exclusive, but the point is to keep the actual editing focused. We don't want to flood this little corner of the world with tons of comments about the story. This is purely a technical forum. We can still carry on those discussions here, and they will read it. If they seem like they are ignoring us, I'll bring it to their attention there. I think it will be a nice balance.
Yes, I would hope it would be heavily involved, even directly attacking the Executor. I think it would be cool to see such a mano a mano assault between the two flagships, and it seems fitting as well that Home One would have a hand in bringing the Executor down. Plus, Ackbar's view of the Executor losing control looks pretty darn close anyway.
So I submitted a PM inviting the sub-team to the new forum. Somebody didn't yet receive it, because somebody's PM box is full. The invitees are:
Angel, aalenfae, Jaitea, GoodMusician, Johannus, emanswfan.
If you did not get a PM, let me know somehow, and free up your inbox or give me your email address. Others can get invited down the road, but the purpose is to keep conversations from being too complex. I will provide all with the url soon.
Well, I never noticed that. To me it goes to show that one can get away with subtle reuses (including flipped footage). You just have to disguise it well.
We did talk about ending the film with the pyre scene. It won the recent vote and worked surprisingly well in Spence's edit. Though it is in a sense, anticlimactic, it seems to be more of an emotional farewell to the Star Wars universe. Bingo, I see what you mean, though I'd have a hard time parting with the celebrations too. Check out a version of Spence's edit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzKY_2XG-KU
I don't know how old that is, but I think it gives a decent idea (clearly we wouldn't follow it exactly, from Vader's death straight to celebrations, but as you can see, the transition works pretty well IMO.
Angel, that looks interesting. Perhaps something like that could be used for the all-out assault on the Executor we're going to create.
Ronster said:
Angel said:
Ronster said:
And I would also like a bit of dog fight action like from ANH especially with the Targeting HUD Graphics it would make it feel a bit more like the original and TBH I think this is one of the main things missing
Just to add that ROTJ has already reused footage from ANH in terms of cockpit shots. The already cheap production got cheaper. Always welcome to see something new.
-Angel
Well not once do we go inside a Tie-Fighter Either surely that's got to change too? The Tie Fighter Cockpits were just cool the with the hexagon window so cinematic.... A real opportunity lost also in my opinion That would help dog-fight action too I guess with the black strormtrooper flyboys and a bit of review window to boot. Obviously what's going on outside the window will be different but you get the idea
I know Adywan used some shot of a TIE pilot from behind. I don't remember where he got the shot, but it was cool. That sort of thing is so brief that you could reuse it here, and even flip it. With a different view outside the cockpit, few would notice. Also, the generic-looking TIE pilot shots from the front could probably be reused for brief clips in ROTJ without looking obvious. Good call, Ronster.
Angel, I never noticed any reused cockpit shots. The only reused material I've ever seen is when the stormtroopers and TIE pilots are scurrying through the halls of the Death Star after the Executor crashes and the point where the gunners are preparing to fire the superlaser.
NOTE: I wrote this earlier and saved it as a draft and forgot to submit it, but I think it's still worth saying.
Bingo, I hope you're not offended about anything. I frankly like the idea, as I like many of the suggestions. But as you point out, it is difficult to work with, one way or another.
So Bingo, since you were gone when the topic came up, what do you think of moving the real Anakin to the pyre scene?
Jaitea, that really is pretty good. It's true, the shuttle would probably have to be smaller or the Executor larger, but you've convinced me it can be done fairly easily. Thanks for taking the time to showing me :)
I guess this leaves the question: when should we use physical models and when should we CGI models?
Well, at least it's a building block to work with for the CGI crew. I imagine it can be improved upon.
Geez, look at my ignorance. I just checked out scifi3d.com, and that has so many cool 3d models. That would certainly save a lot of time for those doing 3d animations. I'm truly excited about all this. That may be the way to go, but I don't know anything. I think the greatest skill I've provided to this project is organization.
DominicCobb said:
darth_ender said:
Well, it could satisfy the desire of so many to see something of this sort while simultaneously allowing us to stay truer to the original movie in story and in feel (something hard to duplicate if we include any non-OT footage). It's just a suggestion, and not something I'm going to be part of.
So I'm on the last part of the script, and I have to bring up something again, though we voted it down: Anakin's ghost at the pyre scene. Let me argue for it one more time. If we show the Ewok celebration and all three Force ghosts smiling, there is Luke's resolution, as well as the audience's. We know Luke is cool with his old man, and so are we. But if we follow that with the pyre scene (which we voted to do), he is now sad and emotional, burning his father's carcass and armor (or at least the armor). This does not capture the right emotions then. If, however, we simply show Luke smiling while looking at Ben and Yoda, and then after burning his father he comes to terms with him as he sees his ghost, I think it would be a far better fit. Let me sum it up like this: if we keep the Force ghosts, the pyre scene needs to come before it. If we put the pyre scene at the very end, we need to remove the Force ghosts. UNLESS...if we remove Anakin from the trio and reveal him DURING the pyre scene (as Aalenfae will show us in an upcoming mockup), then we can keep both scenes and the desired order.
Can we include this once again in the next vote, or is it really dead? I really think the logic is quite sound.
Could we bring up the vote to get rid of ghost Anakin altogether again? I really think my logic as to why was incredibly sound.
Although I wouldn't be as much against Anakin just showing up at the pyre ONLY IF he disappeared shortly after he appears.
I know Aalenfae's mockup included a quick appearance and disappearance, which I personally like as well. I find the logic to your not including him sound as well, and I really mulled the idea over in my head. I'm not looking at the votes at the moment, though I know it didn't pass. Keep discussing it, and maybe we can run it by the group again. I guess the logic is there, but considering the nature of the movie and the hope of ending it on a high note, I preferred showing him truly redeemed. Again, allow me to say that your logic is quite sound.
Hey, in the end, if we do end up removing him from the party scene and including him in the pyre scene, it would not be hard for you to simply include the original pyre scene instead and never see his ghost. Like we've said many times, if someone's ideas don't end up making the edit, they can take what they want from here and simply make whatever changes they desire. But either way, I think we can put it up for a second vote if you really want. We've got several new participants now.
Jaitea said:
Yes definitely, what ship?
Heres a Mon Cal ship downloaded from scfi3d. a few minutes ago.....quickly lit and rendered
J
Wow, that's pretty good. See, I honestly know very little about how these special effects are pulled off. Here is the post of all Johannus's models. I figure it would be easier to film the Executor model and add texture than to build a complete studio-size or 3D model.
I'm wondering how hard it would be to composite that 7 inch model into this shot:
Then digitally add texture to give it a similar level of realism?
Like I said, it's up to you. I now remember two points where we could use a Falcon model. And if you do want to build something else, it's of course entirely up to you. If not, no pressure, we already appreciate your help. The reason I suggested a Mon Cal cruiser was because I believe we will need some, and Johannus's Mon Cal ships are probably too small to work. He's working on a Victory Star Destroyer at the moment, so I thought maybe you might have a hand at something else.
Hey, now that I've got your attention. How hard would it be to add texture and detail to a small model flying overhead using your skills? I'm only imagining a few seconds replacing the Imperial Star Destroyer in the opening shot, and he does have a nice model that would probably need a little enhancement.
No, I'm sure we'd have a use for one (probably not 5 simultaneously ;). I'm sure we could make new Falcon shots, and in fact I included at least one in my newest script. I'm sure more would be even better. I was just thinking you were offering to build other stuff as well. Whatever you prefer. It's a beautiful model :)
grisan said:
Cello Wars:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgAlQuqzl8o
So the cellist and pianist that comprise The Piano Guys...yeah, they're Mormon.
Wow! Great Falcon, J. Anything you'd be interested in constructing for our edit? I'm sure we could use anything you make. I'm thinking we could use more Mon Cal cruisers, but they've got to be a pain in the butt to construct.
So here is the completed script with changes based on the votes:
http://www.4shared.com/office/B1Lt0Ddn/ROTJ_script_edited_updated.html
Ron, I don't feel I'm running away from any pacing problem. I feel we addressed it well enough with Vader contacting Luke, as I wrote here, and as a few people agreed. Don't worry, I'm sure we'll vote on it, and I have my work cut out for me since no one else wants to manage the voting.
Well, it could satisfy the desire of so many to see something of this sort while simultaneously allowing us to stay truer to the original movie in story and in feel (something hard to duplicate if we include any non-OT footage). It's just a suggestion, and not something I'm going to be part of.
So I'm on the last part of the script, and I have to bring up something again, though we voted it down: Anakin's ghost at the pyre scene. Let me argue for it one more time. If we show the Ewok celebration and all three Force ghosts smiling, there is Luke's resolution, as well as the audience's. We know Luke is cool with his old man, and so are we. But if we follow that with the pyre scene (which we voted to do), he is now sad and emotional, burning his father's carcass and armor (or at least the armor). This does not capture the right emotions then. If, however, we simply show Luke smiling while looking at Ben and Yoda, and then after burning his father he comes to terms with him as he sees his ghost, I think it would be a far better fit. Let me sum it up like this: if we keep the Force ghosts, the pyre scene needs to come before it. If we put the pyre scene at the very end, we need to remove the Force ghosts. UNLESS...if we remove Anakin from the trio and reveal him DURING the pyre scene (as Aalenfae will show us in an upcoming mockup), then we can keep both scenes and the desired order.
Can we include this once again in the next vote, or is it really dead? I really think the logic is quite sound.
@Ronster, yes it's suicide in the real world to blow up Endor. As Angel pointed out (from the very interesting Star Wars Technical Commentary pages), blowing up the Death Star would actually be equally suicidal in the real world. But in the Star Wars universe, it doesn't have to be. Besides, I suggested in my script that the Death Stars orbit is far too close anyway. This is how close our moon is to earth:
(*Gosh, I can't even fit the whole thing in the post without shrinking it more, and instead of continuing to fiddle with the size, just open it in a new window.)
The DSII is clearly far closer. If we make it appear farther, it still would be suicidal, but perhaps more believable as well as allow the Death Stars size to be better represented visually. It can be shown to be huge in its own right rather than dwarfed by the moon it's orbiting.
Yes, timdiggerm had the idea of using Boushh, another brilliant idea in my mind. But I'm liking the idea of short films a lot now, and that would probably be better suited for such a short film. The best thing about the short films is that everyone could come up with their own interpretation of the Bothan spies thing and we could enjoy the various takes on a single concept. I personally see no need for a "definitive version" of any of these movies and would enjoy having several versions of the Bothan spies.
While I'm for cutting Ewok stuff, I don't believe it can be a successful complete excision. Therefore I think minimizing certain things and rearranging the plot can be a more realistic solution, plus inserting a couple of well-placed home-filmed commando clips.
Now speaking of all this filming action, no one has volunteered any ideas on how to obtain costumes. When we finally decide on what we're filming, where will we get the costumes?
