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alexp120

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16-Feb-2015
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18-Sep-2020
Posts
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Post
#1338413
Topic
Reasoning Behind Changes from Release to Release
Time

There was a subtle change that involves this optical-effects stripe of these two shots:


Sandwiched between these two shots is a wipe from screen left to screen right

Yes, this stripe existed in the ’77 and ’81 versions, however, here’s the change:
24 frames has been added to the tail-end of that stripe—the shot where the TIE fighters fly towards the Death Star. The reason for that comes from Lucasfilm’s decision to have that shot be the last one to end Reel 2, as movies were still being shown via celluloid prints during 1997.

For a better understanding of what I’m about to explain here, you can download this file.

Edit: Link has been changed. Previous one was not working.
https://mega.nz/file/QosB1LAY#LRlEYGE_erIWkSArpVCZTYXakYY4leC03pBYqoX3hUY

It’s a 14-second MKV file with 2 video tracks and 4 audio tracks muxed in—2 DTS-MA HD tracks, a DTS-ES track, and a PCM track.

VIDEO TRACK 1/AUDIO TRACK 1:
This is the 1977 edition of that optical-effects stripe with the ’77 sound mix in 2 channel audio.

Because Lucas added in new material in Reel 3 such as the Mos Eisley sequence, the Solo/Greedo shoot-out, the Solo/Jabba scene, and the Falcon lift-off shot, Lucasfilm had to find a way to balance the length of these two reels when preparing release prints, since each reel can be longer than a 1000 feet of film. Ultimately, Lucasfilm decided to have a splice between the said establishing Death Star shot and this shot of a corridor of the Death Star’s detention center.

When that decision was made, some changes had to be made.

VIDEO TRACK 2/AUDIO TRACK 2: (make sure you switch the video track to number 2, as well as the audio track)
This is the same scene as it’s shown in the 1997 edition, with the additional 24 frames in the optical-effects stripe. In the audio post-production industry, it is not a good idea to have music during a reel change. Because of a projectionist’s off-timing during a change-over between reels in a dual projection set-up, or frames going missing during the assembly and dis-assembly of multiple reels in a single (or platter) projection set-up, these audio glitches may happen during the reel transitions:

  • The audience will notice the music’s rhythm being off
  • A “pop” sound will occur in the music where it shouldn’t be

So, the audio engineers made an audio drop-out in the music track for technical reasons. Hear that drop-out in the 7-second mark of this video.

And this is where a domino effect begins.

VIDEO TRACK 2/AUDIO TRACK 3:
The ’97 version of that scene—with the extra frames—as seen in the 2011 cut. A new sound mix was created for this version. This time, that silence in the music track was patched-over because John Williams’ music score didn’t cover the extra frames at the end of that Death Star shot, because it didn’t end Reel 2 in the ’77 version. To cover-up that silent hole in the music track, the audio engineers used artificial reverb from the last orchestra note of the Death Star theme

I feel that for the 2011 cut , Lucas should have, at least, restored the original length of that stripe by cutting-off the last 24 frames that he added-on, thereby leaving Williams’ music cue for that scene untouched, since Lucas already trimmed 11 frames from the Solo/Greedo shot-out in the ‘97 cut.

VIDEO TRACK 2/AUDIO TRACK 4:
The music track’s audio drop-out that was created back in ’97 has been retained in concert halls around the world, as evidenced by this 2018 performance of the score by The Baltimore Symphony Orchestra in a Live-to-Projection concert of SW:ANH.

I do not have any documents that proofs of what I say, so this is just a educated guess based on my limited technical knowledge of film, so, take this what you will.

Post
#1337479
Topic
There should be a proper release of the 1977 Star Wars at this point
Time

Disney wouldn’t even let a ‘non-for-profit’ organization in Stockton, CA screen a print of the 1977-Star Wars version, let alone license any distributor to release the theatrical cuts on home video.

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Screening-of-the-Original-Version-of-STAR-WARS-July-at-Stockton-CA/id/67844/page/1#1287845

Post
#1324675
Topic
STAR WARS: EP IV 2004 <strong>REVISITED</strong> ADYWAN *<em>720p HD VERSION NOW IN PRODUCTION</em>
Time

A suggestion I want to put in, Ady.

I was at a ‘film-with-live-orchestra’ concert of SW:ANH and during the detention center shoot-out sequence, the women in the audience were cheering as Leia takes Luke’s blaster and was shooting at the stormtroopers eventhough it appeared that no troops were going down by her firing. Mind you, this event I attended took place after Carrie Fisher’s death.

That got me thinking.

Perhaps you would consider creating a ‘pick-up’ shot of some stormtroopers falling down from Leia’s laserblasts to replace this one from the final edit.

To asses, here are some footage from the film’s final edit of troopers firing at our heroes during that said sequence.










Only 4 shots have some troops falling, but not caused by Leia’s laserblast. Rather than duplicate any frames from these said footage, perhaps you can use CGI to come up with an alternative shot of that same angle by adding a few falling troops and use the smoke diffusion in front of the troops, that was established in these footages, to your advantage.

I’ll admit that the ‘me-too’ movement had something to do with it, also, but I thought I would throw the idea out there.

Post
#1322705
Topic
Info: The Force Awakens - Home Video Version; NOT Theatrical Cut - differences?
Time

What are screened at these ‘film-with-live-orchestra’ concerts is not a celluloid print, but a digital video file…an altered one where there’s just dialogue and sound effects.

Having seen the ‘film-with-live-orchestra’ concert versions of SW:ANH, SW:ESB, and SW:ROTJ, I know, for sure, that these are the 2011 cuts that are available on home version and digital platforms.

I’m leaving the comparisons of SW:TFA between the theatrical version, home video, and the film-concert version to someone else, as I don’t have the edits of these versions burned into my brain like I do with the ‘original’ trilogy.

Post
#1322694
Topic
Info: The Force Awakens - Home Video Version; NOT Theatrical Cut - differences?
Time

@yaboykevin01: Excellent job on the breakdown of the ‘Jedi Steps and Finale’ music cue.

yaboykevin01 said:

All right, I finished my breakdown of the end credits music. I’ve separated each track into sections and determined the running time of each section.

FYC “The Jedi Steps and Finale” (9:58)

  • The Jedi Steps [0:00 - 1:37] (1:37)
  • The Force Theme [1:38 - 2:11] (0:33)
  • Luke’s Theme / Main Theme [2:12 - 2:20] (0:08)
  • Rebel Fanfare [2:21 - 2:31] (0:10)
  • Luke’s Theme / Main Theme [2:32 - 2:57] (0:25)
  • Rey’s Theme [2:58 - 4:10] (1:12)
  • Kylo Ren’s Theme [4:11 - 4:55] (0:44)
  • Pursuit Theme [4:56 - 6:04] (1:08)
  • March of the Resistance [6:05 - 8:34] (2:29)
  • Force Theme + Rey’s Theme [8:35 - 9:14] (0:39)
  • Rebel Fanfare + Ascending Tones [9:15 - 9:31] (0:16)
  • Rey’s Theme (Bars 3 and 4) [9:32 - 9:39] (0:07)
  • Final Chord + Luke’s Theme [9:40 - 9:58] (0:16)

OST “The Jedi Steps and Finale” (8:52) (Source: Spotify)

  • The Jedi Steps [0:00 - 1:37] (1:37)
  • The Force Theme [1:38 - 2:11] (0:33)
  • Luke’s Theme / Main Theme [2:12 - 2:21] (0:09)
  • Rebel Fanfare [2:22 - 2:32] (0:10)
  • Luke’s Theme / Main Theme [2:33 - 2:57] (0:25)
  • Rey’s Theme [2:58 - 4:10] (1:12)
  • Kylo Ren’s Theme [4:11 - 4:55] (0:44)
  • Pursuit Theme [4:56 - 6:04] (1:08)
  • March of the Resistance [6:05 - 7:26] (1:21)
  • Force Theme + Rey’s Theme [7:27 - 8:05] (0:38)
  • Rebel Fanfare + Ascending Tones [8:06 - 8:23] (0:17)
  • Rey’s Theme (Bars 3 and 4) [8:24 - 8:31] (0:07)
  • Final Chord + Luke’s Theme [8:32 - 8:48] (0:16)

Blu-Ray/Digital (12:41 of music) (Source: Movies Anywhere. I can determine whether the digital version matches the Blu-Ray this weekend. I strongly suspect it does.)

  • The Jedi Steps [2:04:55 - 2:06:31] (1:36)
  • The Force Theme [2:06:32 - 2:07:05] (0:33)
  • Luke’s Theme / Main Theme [2:07:06 - 2:07:15] (0:09)
  • Rebel Fanfare [2:07:16 - 2:07:26) (0:10)
  • Luke’s Theme / Main Theme [2:07:27 - 2:07:51] (0:24)
  • Rey’s Theme [2:07:52 - 2:10:11] (2:19)
  • Scherzo for X-Wings [2:10:12 - 2:11:51] (1:39)
  • Kylo Ren’s Theme [2:11:52 - 2:12:35] (0:43)
  • Pursuit Theme [2:12:36 - 2:13:44] (1:08)
  • March of the Resistance [2:13:45 - 2:16:14) (2:29)
  • Force Theme + Rey’s Theme [2:16:15 - 2:16:54] (0:39)
  • Rebel Fanfare + Ascending Tones [2:16:55 - 2:17:12] (0:17)
  • Rey’s Theme (Bars 3 and 4) [2:17:13-2:17:19] (0:06)
  • Final Chord + Luke’s Theme [2:17:20 - 2:17:36] (0:16)
  • Bad Robot / Lucasfilm Logos [2:17:37 - 2:18:02] (0:25)

To summarize the differences:

  • Rey’s Theme is extended by about 1:07 on the digital/Blu-Ray compared to the FYC and OST.
  • The digital/Blu-Ray inserts Scherzo for X-Wings between Rey’s Theme and Kylo Ren’s Theme. Scherzo for X-Wings is absent on the FYC and OST.
  • March of the Resistance is shortened by about 1:08 on the OST compared with the FYC and digital/Blu-Ray.

Bottom line: if the FYC is actually what played over the theatrical version’s credits, then the Blu-Ray has to have been extended by ~2:43 - 2:46, lining up nicely with the reports of a three-minute credits extension. That’s a big “if,” though, so I need corroboration from someone who has access to a theatrical copy that includes the credits (if such a copy exists).

During one of the film’s screenings for the ‘film-with-live-orchestra’ concert of SW:TFA…

…which I attended, the duration of the end credits was shorten by 3 minutes and 21 seconds. This was done by speeding-up the remaining half of the credits after the “A Bad Robot Production” card was displayed. Because of this, the music for that sequence was changed.

Using @yaboykevin’s format, here’s my breakdown of ‘Jedi Steps and Finale’ as heard in the ‘film-concert’ version, if one were to sync the concert audio to the Blu Ray cut.
The Jedi Steps [2:04:56 – 2:06:32] (1:36)
The Force Theme [2:06:32 – 2:07:06] (:34)
Luke’s Theme / Main Theme [2:07:06 – 2:07:17] (:11)
Rebel Fanfare [2:07:17 – 2:07:26] (:09)
Luke’s Theme / Main Theme [2:07:26 – 2:07:50] (:24)
Rey’s Theme [2:07:50 – 2:09:05] (1:15)
Kylo Ren’s Theme [2:09:05 – 2:09:50] (:45)
Pursuit Theme [2:09:50 – 2:10:55] (1:05)
March of the Resistance [2:10:55 – 2:13:23] (2:28)
Force Theme + Rey’s Theme [2:13:23 – 2:14:00] (:37)
Rebel Fanfare + Ascending Tones [2:14:00 – 2:14:18] (:18)
Rey’s Theme (Bars 3 and 4) [2:14:18 – 2:14:26] (:08)
Rebel Fanfare Ending from SW:ROTJ ([GOUT: 2:11:20 – 2:11:40] (:20)), but in a different key. [2:14:26 - 2:14:44] (:18)
This ending was taken from the piece, “Thorne Room and End Title” from Williams’ own concert-suite version of Star Wars (ANH).

Final Analyses:
Basically, the arrangement of the ‘Jedi Steps and Finale’ cue used in SW:TFA’s ‘film-with-live-orchestra’ concert version was the album version up until the final 19 seconds where it gets dumped and replaced by the Rebel Fanfare ending from SW:ROTJ in a different key. That means this film-concert arrangement used a truncated version of ‘Rey’s Theme’ and the removal of ‘Scherzo for X-Wings’ from the film-version of the end credits.

BTW, where I saw the concert, the ‘Bad Robot / Lucasfilm’ logos at the end of the film where not displayed.

Post
#1321369
Topic
Star Wars Film Concert Series (Released)
Time

alexp120 said:

A Live-to-Projection concert program of The Last Jedi has just been announced.

A USA booking has been made:
The New Jersey Symphony Orchestra. March 19-21st 2021
https://www.njsymphony.org/events/detail/star-wars-the-last-jedi-in-concert

Whether this is the second booking of this program or even the North American premiere is uncertain, right now. Here in the United States during the 1st half of the year, orchestras from around the country are starting to announce their schedules for the 2020/21 season that starts in September and ends in August the following year. Some orchestras will put out their schedules as late as May.

So far, only three American orchestras have or will complete the first four Star Wars Film concerts by June of this year. So we’ll have to wait and see what orchestra will schedule SW:TLJ anywhere between September '20 and March '21.

Post
#1315990
Topic
Pickle2503's Attack of the Clones Theatrical Preservation(ish) (Released)
Time

The iso-disc image of the CinemaDTS CD-ROM discs can be found on the usenet circuit, but one would have to do the work in encoding the .AUD files and syncing them to the 23.975fps video.

You can do some reading on this here:
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/The-1997-Star-Wars-Special-Edition-Trilogy-Preservation-Standards-Thread-Work-In-Progress/id/14647/page/1

Post
#1314085
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Slavicuss said:
ALIEN, is another I would be thrilled to see extended. It very nearly happened! An extended cut was prepared with EVERYTHING back in - including previously unseen material - this version, I believe, was put together by Charles de Lauzirika.
The film’s director, Ridley Scott, viewed it and thought it was too long. He then came up with a compromise - ALIEN: THE DIRECTOR’S CUT - which contained very little added material but many edits made to the film and augmented with CGI.
I hope the original edit by Charles de Lauzirika still exists and will be released as bonus material one day.

I would be happy if an alternate working cut of ALIEN would be released, or even screened. This cut, according to Mike Matessino who worked on the music-recording restoration for the 2CD album release, had an additional 11 minutes and it was this version that composer Jerry Goldsmith used to score the music. This cut would restore the music to the way that the composer intended.

Post
#1314046
Topic
YouTube/Vimeo/etc... Star Wars finds
Time

TavorX said:

Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker Featurete

https://youtu.be/CJhKQeblpYk

That beginning blooper, has that ever been shown to the public?

This featurette was first shown at the Star Wars Celebration in Chicago, IL on April 2019 just before a panel discussion. A cell-phone recording of this blooper reel with audience-reaction sounds was upload on the 'spleen shortly after.

Thanks, @TavorX, for finding a better quality video.

Post
#1306021
Topic
James Bond 007 Thread
Time

On the “007-The Daniel Craig Collection” Blu Ray/UHD Combo-Disc Set, the extended international cut of Casino Royale (2006) can be found only on the UHD Blu Ray, in the USA and abroad. This is confirmed by this review on The Digital Bits. The extended cut, which has 17 seconds of extra footage, was previously released on Blu Ray but was not available in the USA.

This cut was used by the concert production company, Film Concerts Live, for their film-with-live-orchestra concert of Casino Royale featuring live performance of David Arnold’s music score.

Post
#1303394
Topic
Harmy's STAR WARS Despecialized Edition HD - V2.7 - MKV (Released)
Time

peasejust said:

Thanks HanDuet, however, when I download the AVCHD version and try to play it with VLC, whenever, I seek the screen becomes all pixelated for a couple of seconds. What is with that? Using IINA (mpv), doesn’t even work at all. Same thing when I remux it to mkv. Why can’t there just be a normal, manageable mkv version? Who wants a 20g file? Seriously. Just provide a smaller version like 8G. ~5000kbps or more, something like that. I’m supposed to store 60G just for the trilogy on my HD? How much HD space do you think people have?

Well, some folks like to watch Star Wars on a bigger screen, so the bigger the file size in the video, the better the picture quality. For these folks, myself included, they saw the Star Wars films on the big screen and we want to recreate that experience of watching these films in that way. That is why Harmy released the trilogy in that huge file size.

ChainsawAsh said:

Yeah…20GB is a pretty standard file size for high-quality HD releases.

I imagine the remaining GBs are for the multiple audio tracks. If file-size is an issue with you, peasejust, free software like MKVToolNix would allow you to remove the audio tracks that you don’t want, thereby reducing the file-size.

Post
#1300341
Topic
Harmy's STAR WARS Despecialized Edition HD - V2.7 - MKV (Released)
Time

The primary source of the ‘despecialized’ versions are from the Blu Ray videos. If you are looking for versions of any of the Star Wars Theatrical cuts that have more picture information, you’re best bet is to look for the fan-made 4K versions–‘4K77’, ‘4K83’, and ‘Renegade Grindhouse’ of ‘The Empire Strikes Back’ as ‘4K80’ is in production. These 4K versions are available in UHD and 1080p. The sole source of these versions are made up of scans from multiple 35mm theatrical prints. Although there is cropping in these versions, too, the final releases do have more picture information than the current Blu Ray versions.

Post
#1297759
Topic
The Phantom Menace - Theatrical version scanned in 4K (a WIP)
Time

ZigZig said:

So it seems that it (TPM) was not so hated until 2012, then it suddenly dropped 10% within the last 7 years
(but it remains widely above The Last Jedi which gets an awful audience score of 44%).

That might be the reason why there’s only one booking for the Film With Live Orchestra concert of The Last Jedi. It premieres in Tokyo, Japan on October 14th.
https://starwars.disney.co.jp/concert.html

Post
#1293658
Topic
1997 Star Wars Special Edition 35mm Project (a WIP)
Time

Anakin94 said:

…but i read that he is working on other projects too.
This is alot of work and time, that he spend.
We should also respect his private life.

For poita, it’s more about working on his life outside the forum.

I would read this post, first, before inquiring on this or any other projects.

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/The-Original-Trilogy-restored-from-35mm-prints/id/49756/page/33#1203596