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Info Wanted: The DIFFERENT STAR WARS versions - which is best?

For starters, the sources of the 4KXX projects for the original trilogy are from various theatrical release prints, the ones that the general audience saw in the movie theaters back in their day. These prints are merely copies made from the original camera negative, so, the quality on the prints are a few generations lower than the OCN.

The source of the Blu Ray releases for the original trilogy were the original camera negatives that was digitally scanned, but alterations were made on them—DNR, added CGI special effects, etc.

Harmy’s Despecialized edition of the original trilogy used a variety of sources. The primary source was the Blu Ray. The sources for the original-trilogy footage that were not found on the Blu Ray were 16mm prints and upscaled DVD video. Because these said additional sources had lesser resolution than the 1080p Blu Ray elements, the Despecialized edition was released in 720p.

For Team Negative 1’s 4K projects, each frame from the theatrical prints were digitally scanned in 4K resolution. They are released in UHD and 1080p.

Amadeus - Theatrical Cut Restoration 1080p (V2) (Released)

@alimento, I may have a third option if you want to keep all the subtitle/audio tracks.

I found this January 2016 post on this same thread:

The Aluminum Falcon said:

Thank you for the share!

Not sure if this has been discussed before, but, when muxing the MKV with TSMuxer, I found, to create a functional BD ISO, I needed to set, under “General track options,” “Do not change SEI and VUI data” rather than the default “Insert SEI and VUI data if absent.”

Has anyone else trying to burn had this experience?

I encountered a similar instance with HAL 9000’s fan edits of the Star Wars prequel; it’s apparently something to do with how the original MKV is encoded.

Now, @alimento, you did this:

alimento said:

I assume I am missing something simple, but as a beginner in this process I’m not sure what it would be. I have tried using the tsMuxer setting “Do not change SEI and VUI data”, but that does not seem to affect the resulting ISO file size.

I am thinking that you may have an older version of TSMuxer, so download the latest version and try making your ISO from the original file, again using the same settings and the option, “Do not change SEI and VUI data” needs to be selected. If that doesn’t work, then you may have to download an older version of TSMuxer that was created before January 2016 to get the results that @The Aluminum Falcon had.

I think that “Do not change SEI and VUI data” needs to be selected so that the software will not add on any inflated data to the ISO.

Amadeus - Theatrical Cut Restoration 1080p (V2) (Released)

alimento said:

Thanks again to stretch009 and everyone else who has kept this project alive.

I am wondering if anyone can help me with burning the Theatrical Cut Restoration to disc. It’s my understanding that this should be possible with a BD25 disc, but when I input the MKV in tsMuxer, it produces an ISO file that ImgBurn says is too large to fit on a BD25 disc.

I would like to include the subtitles provided so generously by ak47wong, but even if I don’t include them, tsMuxer produces an ISO file too large for burning.

I assume I am missing something simple, but as a beginner in this process I’m not sure what it would be. I have tried using the tsMuxer setting “Do not change SEI and VUI data”, but that does not seem to affect the resulting ISO file size.

You have two options:

  1. Get a BD50 blank disc to burn the ISO file on.
  2. Use the free software Handbrake to decrease the file size of the video stream, itself–demux the audio/subtitle tracks, first. Then, go back to TSMuxer and load-in the new video stream and the audio/subtitle tracks, making sure you uncheck the video stream of the original file. If the ISO file is still too big for the BD25 blank disc, then go back to Handbrake and make a smaller file size of the video stream. In other words, play with the file size of the video stream and see if the picture quality works best for you before making the ISO file.
Info: a SUPERMAN Extended Cut - in 5.1 surround

Kamdan said:

Has anyone made an edit of the Blu-ray’s theatrical cut with the 4K’s 5.1 theatrical sound? The video transfer for the 4K version sucked and the only perk was getting the original sound in 5.1 instead of 2.0.

You can use MKVToolNix to mux the 5.1 audio from the theatrical cut of the 4k version with the Blu-Ray theatrical cut. MKVToolnix excepts both x264 and UHD/x265 files.

Reasoning Behind Changes from Release to Release

A stripe is a short piece of film. A wipe is an optical effect that involves the merging of one or more pieces of film into one fresh piece of film or stripe. The post-production house makes a negative stripe of the wipe between the two said shots and that negative is inserted with all the other cut-camera negatives to make the positive print of the film.

Reasoning Behind Changes from Release to Release

There was a subtle change that involves this optical-effects stripe of these two shots:

Sandwiched between these two shots is a wipe from screen left to screen right

Yes, this stripe existed in the ’77 and ’81 versions, however, here’s the change:
24 frames has been added to the tail-end of that stripe—the shot where the TIE fighters fly towards the Death Star. The reason for that comes from Lucasfilm’s decision to have that shot be the last one to end Reel 2, as movies were still being shown via celluloid prints during 1997.

For a better understanding of what I’m about to explain here, you can download this file.

Edit: Link has been changed. Previous one was not working.

It’s a 14-second MKV file with 2 video tracks and 4 audio tracks muxed in—2 DTS-MA HD tracks, a DTS-ES track, and a PCM track.

This is the 1977 edition of that optical-effects stripe with the ’77 sound mix in 2 channel audio.

Because Lucas added in new material in Reel 3 such as the Mos Eisley sequence, the Solo/Greedo shoot-out, the Solo/Jabba scene, and the Falcon lift-off shot, Lucasfilm had to find a way to balance the length of these two reels when preparing release prints, since each reel can be longer than a 1000 feet of film. Ultimately, Lucasfilm decided to have a splice between the said establishing Death Star shot and this shot of a corridor of the Death Star’s detention center.

When that decision was made, some changes had to be made.

VIDEO TRACK 2/AUDIO TRACK 2: (make sure you switch the video track to number 2, as well as the audio track)
This is the same scene as it’s shown in the 1997 edition, with the additional 24 frames in the optical-effects stripe. In the audio post-production industry, it is not a good idea to have music during a reel change. Because of a projectionist’s off-timing during a change-over between reels in a dual projection set-up, or frames going missing during the assembly and dis-assembly of multiple reels in a single (or platter) projection set-up, these audio glitches may happen during the reel transitions:

  • The audience will notice the music’s rhythm being off
  • A “pop” sound will occur in the music where it shouldn’t be

So, the audio engineers made an audio drop-out in the music track for technical reasons. Hear that drop-out in the 7-second mark of this video.

And this is where a domino effect begins.

The ’97 version of that scene—with the extra frames—as seen in the 2011 cut. A new sound mix was created for this version. This time, that silence in the music track was patched-over because John Williams’ music score didn’t cover the extra frames at the end of that Death Star shot, because it didn’t end Reel 2 in the ’77 version. To cover-up that silent hole in the music track, the audio engineers used artificial reverb from the last orchestra note of the Death Star theme

I feel that for the 2011 cut , Lucas should have, at least, restored the original length of that stripe by cutting-off the last 24 frames that he added-on, thereby leaving Williams’ music cue for that scene untouched, since Lucas already trimmed 11 frames from the Solo/Greedo shot-out in the ‘97 cut.

The music track’s audio drop-out that was created back in ’97 has been retained in concert halls around the world, as evidenced by this 2018 performance of the score by The Baltimore Symphony Orchestra in a Live-to-Projection concert of SW:ANH.

I do not have any documents that proofs of what I say, so this is just a educated guess based on my limited technical knowledge of film, so, take this what you will.

There should be a proper release of the 1977 Star Wars at this point

Disney wouldn’t even let a ‘non-for-profit’ organization in Stockton, CA screen a print of the 1977-Star Wars version, let alone license any distributor to release the theatrical cuts on home video.


A suggestion I want to put in, Ady.

I was at a ‘film-with-live-orchestra’ concert of SW:ANH and during the detention center shoot-out sequence, the women in the audience were cheering as Leia takes Luke’s blaster and was shooting at the stormtroopers eventhough it appeared that no troops were going down by her firing. Mind you, this event I attended took place after Carrie Fisher’s death.

That got me thinking.

Perhaps you would consider creating a ‘pick-up’ shot of some stormtroopers falling down from Leia’s laserblasts to replace this one from the final edit.

To asses, here are some footage from the film’s final edit of troopers firing at our heroes during that said sequence.

Only 4 shots have some troops falling, but not caused by Leia’s laserblast. Rather than duplicate any frames from these said footage, perhaps you can use CGI to come up with an alternative shot of that same angle by adding a few falling troops and use the smoke diffusion in front of the troops, that was established in these footages, to your advantage.

I’ll admit that the ‘me-too’ movement had something to do with it, also, but I thought I would throw the idea out there.

Info: The Force Awakens - Home Video Version; NOT Theatrical Cut - differences?

What are screened at these ‘film-with-live-orchestra’ concerts is not a celluloid print, but a digital video file…an altered one where there’s just dialogue and sound effects.

Having seen the ‘film-with-live-orchestra’ concert versions of SW:ANH, SW:ESB, and SW:ROTJ, I know, for sure, that these are the 2011 cuts that are available on home version and digital platforms.

I’m leaving the comparisons of SW:TFA between the theatrical version, home video, and the film-concert version to someone else, as I don’t have the edits of these versions burned into my brain like I do with the ‘original’ trilogy.

Info: The Force Awakens - Home Video Version; NOT Theatrical Cut - differences?

@yaboykevin01: Excellent job on the breakdown of the ‘Jedi Steps and Finale’ music cue.

yaboykevin01 said:

All right, I finished my breakdown of the end credits music. I’ve separated each track into sections and determined the running time of each section.

FYC “The Jedi Steps and Finale” (9:58)

  • The Jedi Steps [0:00 - 1:37] (1:37)
  • The Force Theme [1:38 - 2:11] (0:33)
  • Luke’s Theme / Main Theme [2:12 - 2:20] (0:08)
  • Rebel Fanfare [2:21 - 2:31] (0:10)
  • Luke’s Theme / Main Theme [2:32 - 2:57] (0:25)
  • Rey’s Theme [2:58 - 4:10] (1:12)
  • Kylo Ren’s Theme [4:11 - 4:55] (0:44)
  • Pursuit Theme [4:56 - 6:04] (1:08)
  • March of the Resistance [6:05 - 8:34] (2:29)
  • Force Theme + Rey’s Theme [8:35 - 9:14] (0:39)
  • Rebel Fanfare + Ascending Tones [9:15 - 9:31] (0:16)
  • Rey’s Theme (Bars 3 and 4) [9:32 - 9:39] (0:07)
  • Final Chord + Luke’s Theme [9:40 - 9:58] (0:16)

OST “The Jedi Steps and Finale” (8:52) (Source: Spotify)

  • The Jedi Steps [0:00 - 1:37] (1:37)
  • The Force Theme [1:38 - 2:11] (0:33)
  • Luke’s Theme / Main Theme [2:12 - 2:21] (0:09)
  • Rebel Fanfare [2:22 - 2:32] (0:10)
  • Luke’s Theme / Main Theme [2:33 - 2:57] (0:25)
  • Rey’s Theme [2:58 - 4:10] (1:12)
  • Kylo Ren’s Theme [4:11 - 4:55] (0:44)
  • Pursuit Theme [4:56 - 6:04] (1:08)
  • March of the Resistance [6:05 - 7:26] (1:21)
  • Force Theme + Rey’s Theme [7:27 - 8:05] (0:38)
  • Rebel Fanfare + Ascending Tones [8:06 - 8:23] (0:17)
  • Rey’s Theme (Bars 3 and 4) [8:24 - 8:31] (0:07)
  • Final Chord + Luke’s Theme [8:32 - 8:48] (0:16)

Blu-Ray/Digital (12:41 of music) (Source: Movies Anywhere. I can determine whether the digital version matches the Blu-Ray this weekend. I strongly suspect it does.)

  • The Jedi Steps [2:04:55 - 2:06:31] (1:36)
  • The Force Theme [2:06:32 - 2:07:05] (0:33)
  • Luke’s Theme / Main Theme [2:07:06 - 2:07:15] (0:09)
  • Rebel Fanfare [2:07:16 - 2:07:26) (0:10)
  • Luke’s Theme / Main Theme [2:07:27 - 2:07:51] (0:24)
  • Rey’s Theme [2:07:52 - 2:10:11] (2:19)
  • Scherzo for X-Wings [2:10:12 - 2:11:51] (1:39)
  • Kylo Ren’s Theme [2:11:52 - 2:12:35] (0:43)
  • Pursuit Theme [2:12:36 - 2:13:44] (1:08)
  • March of the Resistance [2:13:45 - 2:16:14) (2:29)
  • Force Theme + Rey’s Theme [2:16:15 - 2:16:54] (0:39)
  • Rebel Fanfare + Ascending Tones [2:16:55 - 2:17:12] (0:17)
  • Rey’s Theme (Bars 3 and 4) [2:17:13-2:17:19] (0:06)
  • Final Chord + Luke’s Theme [2:17:20 - 2:17:36] (0:16)
  • Bad Robot / Lucasfilm Logos [2:17:37 - 2:18:02] (0:25)

To summarize the differences:

  • Rey’s Theme is extended by about 1:07 on the digital/Blu-Ray compared to the FYC and OST.
  • The digital/Blu-Ray inserts Scherzo for X-Wings between Rey’s Theme and Kylo Ren’s Theme. Scherzo for X-Wings is absent on the FYC and OST.
  • March of the Resistance is shortened by about 1:08 on the OST compared with the FYC and digital/Blu-Ray.

Bottom line: if the FYC is actually what played over the theatrical version’s credits, then the Blu-Ray has to have been extended by ~2:43 - 2:46, lining up nicely with the reports of a three-minute credits extension. That’s a big “if,” though, so I need corroboration from someone who has access to a theatrical copy that includes the credits (if such a copy exists).

During one of the film’s screenings for the ‘film-with-live-orchestra’ concert of SW:TFA…

…which I attended, the duration of the end credits was shorten by 3 minutes and 21 seconds. This was done by speeding-up the remaining half of the credits after the “A Bad Robot Production” card was displayed. Because of this, the music for that sequence was changed.

Using @yaboykevin’s format, here’s my breakdown of ‘Jedi Steps and Finale’ as heard in the ‘film-concert’ version, if one were to sync the concert audio to the Blu Ray cut.
The Jedi Steps [2:04:56 – 2:06:32] (1:36)
The Force Theme [2:06:32 – 2:07:06] (:34)
Luke’s Theme / Main Theme [2:07:06 – 2:07:17] (:11)
Rebel Fanfare [2:07:17 – 2:07:26] (:09)
Luke’s Theme / Main Theme [2:07:26 – 2:07:50] (:24)
Rey’s Theme [2:07:50 – 2:09:05] (1:15)
Kylo Ren’s Theme [2:09:05 – 2:09:50] (:45)
Pursuit Theme [2:09:50 – 2:10:55] (1:05)
March of the Resistance [2:10:55 – 2:13:23] (2:28)
Force Theme + Rey’s Theme [2:13:23 – 2:14:00] (:37)
Rebel Fanfare + Ascending Tones [2:14:00 – 2:14:18] (:18)
Rey’s Theme (Bars 3 and 4) [2:14:18 – 2:14:26] (:08)
Rebel Fanfare Ending from SW:ROTJ ([GOUT: 2:11:20 – 2:11:40] (:20)), but in a different key. [2:14:26 - 2:14:44] (:18)
This ending was taken from the piece, “Thorne Room and End Title” from Williams’ own concert-suite version of Star Wars (ANH).

Final Analyses:
Basically, the arrangement of the ‘Jedi Steps and Finale’ cue used in SW:TFA’s ‘film-with-live-orchestra’ concert version was the album version up until the final 19 seconds where it gets dumped and replaced by the Rebel Fanfare ending from SW:ROTJ in a different key. That means this film-concert arrangement used a truncated version of ‘Rey’s Theme’ and the removal of ‘Scherzo for X-Wings’ from the film-version of the end credits.

BTW, where I saw the concert, the ‘Bad Robot / Lucasfilm’ logos at the end of the film where not displayed.

Star Wars Film Concert Series (Released)

alexp120 said:

A Live-to-Projection concert program of The Last Jedi has just been announced.

A USA booking has been made:
The New Jersey Symphony Orchestra. March 19-21st 2021

Whether this is the second booking of this program or even the North American premiere is uncertain, right now. Here in the United States during the 1st half of the year, orchestras from around the country are starting to announce their schedules for the 2020/21 season that starts in September and ends in August the following year. Some orchestras will put out their schedules as late as May.

So far, only three American orchestras have or will complete the first four Star Wars Film concerts by June of this year. So we’ll have to wait and see what orchestra will schedule SW:TLJ anywhere between September '20 and March '21.

Pickle2503's Attack of the Clones Theatrical Preservation(ish) (Released)

The iso-disc image of the CinemaDTS CD-ROM discs can be found on the usenet circuit, but one would have to do the work in encoding the .AUD files and syncing them to the 23.975fps video.

You can do some reading on this here:

4K restoration on Star Wars

Slavicuss said:
ALIEN, is another I would be thrilled to see extended. It very nearly happened! An extended cut was prepared with EVERYTHING back in - including previously unseen material - this version, I believe, was put together by Charles de Lauzirika.
The film’s director, Ridley Scott, viewed it and thought it was too long. He then came up with a compromise - ALIEN: THE DIRECTOR’S CUT - which contained very little added material but many edits made to the film and augmented with CGI.
I hope the original edit by Charles de Lauzirika still exists and will be released as bonus material one day.

I would be happy if an alternate working cut of ALIEN would be released, or even screened. This cut, according to Mike Matessino who worked on the music-recording restoration for the 2CD album release, had an additional 11 minutes and it was this version that composer Jerry Goldsmith used to score the music. This cut would restore the music to the way that the composer intended.

YouTube/Vimeo/etc... Star Wars finds

TavorX said:

Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker Featurete

That beginning blooper, has that ever been shown to the public?

This featurette was first shown at the Star Wars Celebration in Chicago, IL on April 2019 just before a panel discussion. A cell-phone recording of this blooper reel with audience-reaction sounds was upload on the 'spleen shortly after.

Thanks, @TavorX, for finding a better quality video.

James Bond 007 Thread

On the “007-The Daniel Craig Collection” Blu Ray/UHD Combo-Disc Set, the extended international cut of Casino Royale (2006) can be found only on the UHD Blu Ray, in the USA and abroad. This is confirmed by this review on The Digital Bits. The extended cut, which has 17 seconds of extra footage, was previously released on Blu Ray but was not available in the USA.

This cut was used by the concert production company, Film Concerts Live, for their film-with-live-orchestra concert of Casino Royale featuring live performance of David Arnold’s music score.