alexp120

My ideal way is to wait a long period of time between viewings of one film that I liked. This way, I can forget that one film and come back to it so that I can get that same enjoyment of when I first viewed it. In the case of the first three Star Wars films however, that is no longer possible since I’ve been involved in doing audio projects for them and I have to watch them to see if my work is done well. It’s like listening to a popular song. You first heard it over the radio and you’ve enjoyed it so much in that first listen. You would listen to that song repeatedly for hours and days to get that same ‘high’ of enjoyment. After a while, when you reached that 100th listen, that enjoyment starts to wear-off.

Before that, I had the first two films on CED disc in the 1980’s and I would watch them often for a year until my player broke in 1985. I, then, got a VCR (finally), but I never bothered buying the Star Wars films on tape. Fast-forward to 1991, I made a visit to a once-popular department store and I saw a home-theater display that contained a Toshiba 4:3 47-inch big-screen TV, a Sony laser-disc player, two Sony tower speakers with powered subwoofers and a comfortable sofa where people were watching a movie on that TV without a care in the world-the salesmen nor security men weren’t telling these people to move along. On a whim, I bought the Star Wars Trilogy “Definitive Collection” Laserdisc box set (despite my not having a LaserDisc player), went straight back to that department store and started playing ANH. Because of the size of the TV, the letterboxed picture was enough to put the black borders in my peripheral version. The remastered soundtrack was crisp-sounding coming out of those Sony speakers. Those speakers also did a good job in making the explosions rumble.

Into the playing of these discs in the store, customers and even the salesmen were gathering around the ‘living room’ area to see how this movie looked and sounded in that home theater set-up. One mother came in with her children and the kids were sitting close to the TV-screen in front of the sofa to watch the flying space ships. Each week, I brought in a different Star Wars movie to play in the store without objection from the salesmen. The store didn’t have any LaserDiscs to sell, so, I like to think that I was doing that store a favor by my playing these discs with the store’s equipment.

Having not seen the films for over 6 years, watching them with that home-theater set-up was the best that I can get of enjoying the films outside of the theater when I first saw them.

Nowadays, after viewing the SW films via ‘film-with-live-orchestra’ concerts, I can go for long periods of time without seeing the Star Wars films, so, I can wait forever for the completion of ‘4K80’

You can try this one:
http://thedigitalbits.com/columns/history-legacy-showmanship/force-to-be-reckoned-with-star-wars-40th/Page-2
It has what specific theatres that ran SW during the opening weekend.

Might as well add that to the scans of the German language versions.

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Star-Wars-SE-German-Theatrical-Trailers-35mm-Preservation-Released/id/16668/

ZigZig said:
2) Is there a dolby EX 6.1 or DTS version on one of the LD versions (I don’t think so)?

The 12-inch LaserDisc releases of the 1997 Star Wars Original Trilogy films where released only in Dolby Digital discrete 5.1 channel bitstreams. There were never separate LaserDisc releases of these films with DTS bitstreams.

Getting off topic: There were separate LaserDisc releases of the first three Die Hard films with DTS bitstreams.

I stand corrected.

I could use an 1080p upscale of Adywan’s ‘Star Wars:ANH-Revisited’. It was released in 720p.

Although Adywan said that he’ll resume work on this next month, who knows when he’ll be finished. You know how these project owners are: It will be finished when it’s finished.

RU.08 said:

Finally Mike says that Legacy is the “original version” - I disagree. It’s his version, that he is happy with and that’s perfectly fine. But he has made alterations to it to make it the way he feels the movie should look, including making it way sharper than was ever intended in 1977.

In other words, it’s an elaborate fan-edit, only this one he isn’t sharing it–not in its entirety, anyway.

J0E said:

Side note: I seem to remember ZigZig mentioning somewhere he got his hands on a 4k scan of a print but upon looking around again, I can’t seem to find where he mentioned it. If anyone could find that for me I’d be very appreciative.

ZigZig is overseeing a scan from the film’s 35mm release prints.
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/The-Phantom-Menace-Theatrical-version-scanned-in-4K-a-WIP/id/67543

…but that project had been stalled

ZigZig said:
The scanning process is currently locked down in a Parisian lab due to Covid-19…

I caught this thread and it made me laugh.

I thought I’d bump it up so that the new members can join in.

I’m glad that what I have suggested to you have worked out for you.

If both the audio and the video is in the same duration, as you have described, then you need to apply delay to the demuxed audio stream.

Go back to your mux’ing software (TSMuxer or MKVToolNix) and find the delay feature. Load the same video and audio streams.

If your remixed video has the sound before the actual time (ex. you hear spoken words before the lips move), then in the muxing software select the audio stream and apply a value in the delay box. Start off with a value of 100. This will nudge the audio stream forward.

If your video has the sound after the actual time (ex. you hear spoken words only after the lips move), then in the muxing software select the audio stream and in the delay box put a ‘minus’ sign and then the value (-100)–DO NOT PUT THE PARENTHESIS IN THE DELAY BOX. This will nudge the audio stream backward.

You may have to play with the values until you are satisfied with the results.

Good luck to you.

Dek Rollins said:

(Apologies in advance for the off topic question, I just can’t find a better place to ask right now)

Is TheStarWarsTrilogy down? I’ve checked two sites, one says it’s down, the other says it’s up. Yesterday I just got an error message that mentioned server maintenance, so I assumed the forum was being updated or something. Now it still won’t load the site, but instead of an error message it asks for me to sign in. I assume it’s asking for an administrative sign in or something, because putting in my own sign in info doesn’t do anything.

I figure it’s nothing to worry about, but I wanted to check if anyone else knows what’s up.

It’s now back up.

This thread is about the scanning of a theatrical release print, so, this version would be the theatrical cut.

Here’s one from last December’s New York Times

’We Can’t See ‘Star Wars’ Anymore’

The cultural industry that the 1977 film spawned has ground its original charm and wonder out of existence.
 

“We literally can’t see “Star Wars” anymore: Its control-freakish creator won’t allow the original version of the film to be seen and has stubbornly maculated his own masterpiece, second-guessing correct editing decisions, restoring wisely deleted scenes and replacing his breakthrough special effects — historic artifacts in their own right — with ’90s vintage C.G.I., already more dated than the film’s original effects.”
 

EDIT:
As of now this article requires you to be subscriber to the NYT.

Here’s a Baltimore Symphony Orchestra video broadcasted last night where it discusses the planning behind the ‘film with live orchestra’ concert program of SW:TESB.

The OT had made some discussions about the specific changes in this alternate cut.
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/ESB-70mm-Soundtrack-1980-in-theatre-recording/id/12501/page/1
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Hopefully-the-last-70mm-vs-35mm-ESB-audio-differences-thread/id/14128/page/1
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/70-mm-print-of-the-Empire-Strikes-Back-Differences/id/2321/page/1

Someone did a recreation of that alternative ending on YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmbl8tLOfFE
The audio in that video is a vintage In-Theater recording of a screening from that alternate cut.

Details about that audio recording can be found here:
http://wideanglecloseup.com/starwarsaudio.html

Just for fun, I was watching SW:ANH with the 5.1 DTS-ES Italian track the other night (Italian is not my language) and I’ve noticed a flaw in the audio for the scene just after the Solo/Jabba conflict where Luke and Ben were making their way to Docking Bay 94 (at the 54:14 mark). I noticed that the music tracks in the front were not sync’ing to each other by about 1 second between them.

For convenience, here’s a 29-second mkv clip of that scene.

https://wetransfer.com/downloads/e643d937e7d6b570a2a25dae2bd3ed2320200513100442/1c1de497fafcd75d76e0ff141675dbd720200513100510/eba192

Here it on Audio Track #1

The following morning, I ripped the audio for that scene and I examined each channel. I’ve discovered that the music element in the front left and right channels are out of sync with the music element in the center channel, but the other sound elements—the dialogue, and the alien sounds (Chewie’s grunt, and an alien stalker speaking on a portable communicating device) were in sync. As a hunch, I’ve compared both channels to the 1977 mix. Sure enough, the center channel element used in this 2019 Italian audio track for that scene is from the 1977 sound mix because the music placement for that scene in the center Italian track matches the music placement of the same scene in the ’77 version.
Here’s breakdown of how this 28/29 second-footage covering between these two frames …

In the ’77 version, the music cue for that scene—Inner City (Cue #5M6)- begins to the end where Luke says, “What a piece of junk.” For the 1997 cut, Lucas extended the said footage by 21 frames. As a result, the said music cue ends just before Luke says that said line.

Using that same mkv clip (above), here’s how the Italian track on the said footage plays out.
The Left and Right Front Channels (Audio Track 2): It begins with the ’77 audio mix with Ben’s line, “If his ship is as fast as his boasting…” in Italian, then switches to the ’97 mix through-out the remainder of the scene.

The Center Channel (Audio Track 3): It is entirely the center track for the ’77 Italian mix. Notice that after the stalker-alien does his speak (at the :16 mark), the audio fades out to silence and fades back in. The ’77 center audio for that footage would not cover the added frames in the ’97 cut, so, a silence patch in the center track was made to extend the length of the ’77 audio. Since the left and right front channels are filled with music and sound effects, they mask out the center track’s brief silence patch.

However, in the end, the music being out of sync between the channels is audible (Track 1).

Why a polished audio mix of that sequence was never created back in ’97 or that audio mistake was never corrected in future home video releases *, including this one, is anyone’s guess.

*= yeah, this anomaly appears in the 2004 Dolby EX Italian audio track via shorman’s Star Wars Saga HDTV-DVD Preservation

JasonA said:

Additional changes made for 4K, according to Bill Hunt at the Digital Bits:

Unfortunately, as you may have heard by now, there’s been another change to the Han/Greedo scene. And it’s even more jarring than before. After Han says his iconic line, “Yes, I’ll bet you have,” the film now cuts back to a quick shot of Greedo again, who mutters an additional bit of Rodian dialogue (non-subtitled), before they both shoot at once, Han’s head weirdly shifts to one side, and Greedo falls.

https://thedigitalbits.com/columns/my-two-cents/111319-1800

I decided to delve a bit further into the new Solo/Greedo shootout.

This sequence has 14 frames–6 frames more than 2011 cut.  Ironic is that the 8-frame scene in the 2011 cut had 3 laser-fire exchanges, where as in the 14-frame 2019 version, one laser-fire discharge was removed.

This ‘film-with-live-orchestra’ concert of SW:TESB in Marseille, France has Anthony Daniels as the live guest.

http://dome.marseille.fr/agenda-dome/detail/13EVT112097

For starters, the sources of the 4KXX projects for the original trilogy are from various theatrical release prints, the ones that the general audience saw in the movie theaters back in their day. These prints are merely copies made from the original camera negative, so, the quality on the prints are a few generations lower than the OCN.

The source of the Blu Ray releases for the original trilogy were the original camera negatives that was digitally scanned, but alterations were made on them—DNR, added CGI special effects, etc.

Harmy’s Despecialized edition of the original trilogy used a variety of sources. The primary source was the Blu Ray. The sources for the original-trilogy footage that were not found on the Blu Ray were 16mm prints and upscaled DVD video. Because these said additional sources had lesser resolution than the 1080p Blu Ray elements, the Despecialized edition was released in 720p.

For Team Negative 1’s 4K projects, each frame from the theatrical prints were digitally scanned in 4K resolution. They are released in UHD and 1080p.

@alimento, I may have a third option if you want to keep all the subtitle/audio tracks.

I found this January 2016 post on this same thread:

The Aluminum Falcon said:

Thank you for the share!

Not sure if this has been discussed before, but, when muxing the MKV with TSMuxer, I found, to create a functional BD ISO, I needed to set, under “General track options,” “Do not change SEI and VUI data” rather than the default “Insert SEI and VUI data if absent.”

Has anyone else trying to burn had this experience?

I encountered a similar instance with HAL 9000’s fan edits of the Star Wars prequel; it’s apparently something to do with how the original MKV is encoded.

Now, @alimento, you did this:

alimento said:

I assume I am missing something simple, but as a beginner in this process I’m not sure what it would be. I have tried using the tsMuxer setting “Do not change SEI and VUI data”, but that does not seem to affect the resulting ISO file size.

I am thinking that you may have an older version of TSMuxer, so download the latest version and try making your ISO from the original file, again using the same settings and the option, “Do not change SEI and VUI data” needs to be selected. If that doesn’t work, then you may have to download an older version of TSMuxer that was created before January 2016 to get the results that @The Aluminum Falcon had.

I think that “Do not change SEI and VUI data” needs to be selected so that the software will not add on any inflated data to the ISO.

alimento said:

Thanks again to stretch009 and everyone else who has kept this project alive.

I am wondering if anyone can help me with burning the Theatrical Cut Restoration to disc. It’s my understanding that this should be possible with a BD25 disc, but when I input the MKV in tsMuxer, it produces an ISO file that ImgBurn says is too large to fit on a BD25 disc.

I would like to include the subtitles provided so generously by ak47wong, but even if I don’t include them, tsMuxer produces an ISO file too large for burning.

I assume I am missing something simple, but as a beginner in this process I’m not sure what it would be. I have tried using the tsMuxer setting “Do not change SEI and VUI data”, but that does not seem to affect the resulting ISO file size.

You have two options:

1. Get a BD50 blank disc to burn the ISO file on.
2. Use the free software Handbrake to decrease the file size of the video stream, itself–demux the audio/subtitle tracks, first. Then, go back to TSMuxer and load-in the new video stream and the audio/subtitle tracks, making sure you uncheck the video stream of the original file. If the ISO file is still too big for the BD25 blank disc, then go back to Handbrake and make a smaller file size of the video stream. In other words, play with the file size of the video stream and see if the picture quality works best for you before making the ISO file.

Kamdan said:

Has anyone made an edit of the Blu-ray’s theatrical cut with the 4K’s 5.1 theatrical sound? The video transfer for the 4K version sucked and the only perk was getting the original sound in 5.1 instead of 2.0.

You can use MKVToolNix to mux the 5.1 audio from the theatrical cut of the 4k version with the Blu-Ray theatrical cut. MKVToolnix excepts both x264 and UHD/x265 files.

A stripe is a short piece of film. A wipe is an optical effect that involves the merging of one or more pieces of film into one fresh piece of film or stripe. The post-production house makes a negative stripe of the wipe between the two said shots and that negative is inserted with all the other cut-camera negatives to make the positive print of the film.

That link was a ‘loooooooong’ one. I thought sure it would give anyone easy access. Anyway, the link has been changed. Thanks for letting me know.