On the 'spleen, someone uploaded a 1080i DTV capture of the 2002 (walking-talking) version of “E.T.”, but it’s in a Blu Ray ISO that includes other stuff–like the 90 minute “Making of E.T.” documentary that was available on the boxed LaserDisc version.
Also, the uploader admitted that the audio is out of sync with the video.
gsherwo said:
What does “grindhouse” mean in the context of Star Wars?
Around here, “grindhouse” is a term to unofficially, IMO, describe the type of a video-scan release of a movie print where there would be no digital photo retouching done to it, so the content would be in whatever the condition the release print was when it was scanned – complete with print marks, color fading, skipped frames, with a sound track that has clicks and pops in the background—just the way the audience in the theatre would have seen it.
There have been several different sound mixes for that film over the years, so, it is not a surprise that the sound levels for each element–music, dialogue, spaceship fxs, creature fxs, etc–would be different in balance for each sound mix.
As far as what you can do about it? You can replace the audio for that scene with the one you like, but you may have to do some research on your own. There are a few free audio editing softwares out there. Perhaps doing a personal project like this will help you learn how to use these softwares.
Doesn’t this community have enough prints of this movie, already?
The long and the short of it is this:
Back in '77 someone made a audio tape recording of the 70mm screenings. You can read about it here:
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/1977-70mm-Soundtrack-Strikes-Back/id/6088
I do have the OST for all three OT films on vinyl, and can definitely hear advantages (and disadvantages) of analog.
Are you talking about the music soundtracks or the “The Story of…” records?
oohteedee said:
here is what I discovered are missing frames of the reel scans
comparing against the bonus DVD gout version
My DVD gout may have the frame numbers off but look at frame 15496 on reel 3 as a reference to the frame I mean. On my gout it’s duplicated. I viewed the gout in QuickTime 7 on my Mac as that version shows a frame count.
I think another problem is that one is comparing the 35mm scan that is displayed at 23.97fps (frames per second) against a DVD that is displayed at 29.97fps.
All NTSC DVD videos are displayed at 29.97fps. Motion Pictures are displayed at 24fps. Speaking in lamen’s terms, to release a motion picture on DVD, a 3:2 pulldown scheme is used where a frame of a film is duplicated on 2 to 3 video frames (or fields) on a NTSC video in order for the video to match the film’s running time—for every set of 2 video frames that a single film frame is duplicated, a set of 3 video frames duplicates another single film frame.
That is why, oohteedee, you are getting duplicate frames on the DVD. You should be comparing the 35mm scan against Harmy’s Despecialized edition of the film. Both of them are displayed at 23.97fps.
If you look at the Nov. 5th post of this thread…
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Amadeus-Theatrical-Cut-Restoration-1080p-V2/id/16803/page/15
zxthehedgehog said:
…If anyone else wants it, just send me a PM instead of using this thread.
So, try PM’ing that member.
Also, from this very page…
zxthehedgehog said:
You may not be able to get in touch with jimbotron235, but Handman, myself, and a few others still send out PMs for it.
I hope all this helps.
That print is now sold. I hope one of us bought it and can make good use of it.
…and that is all I can say, as per poita’s advice
poita said:
…please don’t post images or names from the 35mm forum here, it will get people banned from the 35mm forum.
So, I hope there is someone in or out of that forum that can be a hero and get it.
P.S: I would not dare disobey a person that is restoring a Star Wars print 😃
Edit: Just realized I posted in the wrong topic. That is what I get when I’m in a hurry to finish erands. 😠
Folks here in this forum have been blessed with getting access to video scans of release prints from their favorite films. Almost all the scans feature an audio of the print’s optical sound track. Although the optical track is appreciative for preservation, some of us would like to enjoy the quality of the print through better sound quality, like from Blu Ray, DVD, and/or LaserDisc versions, so, we attempt to mux one or more of these audio tracks to the video scan. After doing that, we find that the audio tracks won’t play in sync with the scan because the source—the release print—has missing frames. So, we either edit the audio to match the length of the scan or we extended the video to match the audio tracks—via black frames, duplicating one or more frames, etc.
We all know, by now, that one cause of why frames are missing from a release print is because of the damage that print gets through excessive playing through a film projector. After a while, the film breaks apart during projection; a frame, or two, is torn; and the two pieces of film are taped together. Other times, frames at the head or tail ends of a film’s reel are damaged because of an operator’s constant taping together and later removing a long strip of black leader used to thread to an empty reel for a projector.
This brings me to the another cause of missing frames—one that I would like an explanation to. These missing frames only appear in the home video releases and are not on the release prints. In the release prints, these missing frames occur either in the beginning of a shot or at the end of a shot. In the frame where a missing frame would either follow or precede, it has no evidence of damage –dried-on adhesive markings, a torn frame that is poorly pieced together, etc. Even if you purchased a film print where all the frames of each reel are complete, frames that appear in the home video edition would be absent from the print. Because of this, one would not be able to sync this complete print to any audio mix of any home video version unless you either edit the audio to fit the print or add frames on the scan of the print to fit the audio.
Here are some examples.
RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK (1981)
Here is the last frame of a shot from the release print (at 00:05:04 from Litemakr’s release)
Notice the position of Indy’s hammer.
From the Blu Ray, here is that same frame (00:04:11).
…followed by this next frame, not seen in the release print.
…and that is the last frame of this shot.
Now see all these frame together below.
Here is the last frame of another shot from the release print (00:50:59)
Notice the front-end cap of a German soldier that is about to appear.
Here is that same frame, as seen in the Blu Ray (00:50:09).
…followed by this theatrically unreleased frame.
Now, we have a face that goes with that cap.
EMPIRE STRIKES BACK (1980)
Here is the first frame of this shot from the release print (00:41:33).
Notice the position of R2’s red light on his dome in relation to his barrel.
On Harmy’s Despecialized Edition, here is the first frame of this same shot (00:41:33). Now look where his red light is.
This frame and 3 others, seen below, did not show up on the release print.
Our own Mavimao gave a detailed description on the process of creating release prints from the camera negative which you can read here, but here is my version of the process in a nutshell:
I would think that the interpositive would be used for both theatrical runs and for home video releases. If so, why are frames from the edited camera negative left-out from the release prints but appear in the home video versions.
Please enlighten me.
Thanks.
Just registered!
Williarob said:
I don’t know about you but I’d rather have a single slightly blurry frame than a black Flash!
Amen to that!
Having a sudden black Flash occur in a darkened room while watching a movie is like a painless, yet irritating, version of getting both your eyes poked.
However, I do respect your decision on using black frames as a last resort.
There is an episode II 35mm print on ebay. It’s relisted after failing to sell for $750 last week. I’m not saying it’s worth it at all (for about 4 shots of the worst Star Wars film ever 😃 ), just that it’s the only way of making a theatrical AoTC.
That movie was originally shot on a digital camera, not on film. Even if the print can be purchased and scanned, can the quality of the film frames, transferred from a digital file, can match the video that we have here?
The number of frames in the Silver Screen v.1.6 is the same as Harmys 2.7 and each frame from both editions have the same frame number. ( JEDI TRANSLATION: Both editions are GOUT sync’d to each other).
So, the answer to your question is yes—-all the audio options from Harmy’s 2.7 will play in perfect synchronization with the Silver Screen v.1.6 when muxed.
What would be the significance in capturing this broadcast?
Williarob said:
At that point, a grindhouse version would be the way to go. In the meantime I can assemble the Grindhouse version in parallel to the cleaned up version which will be considerably easier.
I’d welcome a grindhouse version, even with the accumulate print-dirt and skip-frames. Might as well throw a bone to Disney and have them do a proper GOUT UHD release. 😃
May we assume from the wording in the crawl that Mike’s meeting with Disney didn’t go to well?
Has anyone tried the [AUDIO FILE] Star Wars (1977): SE ’97 mix for TN1’s SSE v1.6 and Harmy’s DE 2.7 off the spleen. Just trying to decide if it’s worth getting/what opinions are on it.
Yeah, how about it?
I’ve just uploaded a DTS audio file for the GOUT version of Jedi with 5.1 channel 1997 Special Edition audio mix. I have edited the audio file to play in sync with this release.
To patch over certain GOUT footages where the SE audio would be inappropriate, I’ve used the film’s 1983 theatrical mix found in the 5.1 channel DTS audio stream of the Despecialized Edition. So, these audio files are 97.14% SE97 audio and 2.86% of GOUT audio.
I also made one for Harmy’s Jedi Grindhouse 35mm LPP.
Like all my other edited SE97 audio files, found on the ‘spleen, the source of the 1997 SE audio was from CapableMetal DTS files, found on the ‘spleen, where it was made from the Cinema DTS CD-ROM discs (from the collection of Jetrell Fo). The data from the discs was encrypted to 6 mono PCM wave files representing each channel of the film’s surround soundtrack. CapableMetal processed and sync’ed each of the 6 files to fit TB broadcasts of the SE97, so, the SE97 mix presented in this audio file is from CapableMetal’s work and I appreciate his effort and for his sharing, as well as, to Jetrell Fo for obtaining the discs.
This is just another way to view the GOUT version.
The reason for 2 audio files of the same film, featuring the same content, is because the difference in length of these Harmy releases. The DE 2.5 is the longest of the videos while the the Grindhouse version is a minute and a quarter shorter, despite the fact that it has been “NTSC GOUT sync’d” by way of black frames as substitutes for the missing frames of the release print. The only difference in my audio files is how I arranged the end credits music. I’ll explain.
In the GOUT version of ROTJ, John Williams’ original music for this film’s end credits was edited to fit the length of that version’s credit roll. For the film’s Special Edition, the length of the end credits was extended, so, Williams’ end credits music was almost restored–the edit in the Rebel fanfare at the start of the end credits from the GOUT version was retained in the SE97. Also, to accommodate the extra length of SE97 end credits, a portion of music for that roll was repeated—the Ewok music portion.
For the DE version of the audio file, I’ve removed that duplicate Ewok-music portion of the SE97 end credits edit. Despite the shortening, the music will still go past the official end credits and into the Despecialized credits, but the music will finish before those credits end.
For the Grindhouse version, using only the SE97 audio elements, I’ve recreated the end credits-music edit from the GOUT version.
FAQ:
What happends if I use the DE audio file for the Grindhouse?
Eventhough, the audio will play in-sync with the video, when the video reaches the end-the final video frame, the screen will go black and the timecode counter will stop, but the audio stream will continue until it reaches its end. That means you’ll hear music over Harmy’s “special-thanks” credits and when that is done, the music will continue until it finishes. *
OK, so, what happends if I mux the Grindhouse audio with the DE video?
Well, audio will play in perfect sync with the DE video. When the audio stream reaches its end (being that it’s shorter than the video), the video will play with no sound until it reaches the final frame. *
*= based on what I found when using my MPC-HC media player.
So the long and the short is that because both the DE and the Grindhouse have been sync’d together, whichever audio file you choose to download it will play in perfect sync with both videos, it is just a question of how much music from the end credits do you wish to have.
Enjoy.
Hey, anybody remember this vinyl album?
This album came out at the time of the film release. I bought it back in ’82 and it has been in my collection ever since. Inside the album, in addition to the record, is a booklet with color stills from the movie.
Among the photos are some stills that were taken from a print of the movie. I’ve made a scan of these photos and I’m presenting them here for examination of the print’s color timing
I’ve just uploaded a set of audio files for the GOUT version of Empire featuring the 1997 Special Edition audio mix in DTS 5.1 channel sound. I have edited each audio file to play in sync with the following presentations:
To patch over certain GOUT footages where the SE audio would be inappropriate, I’ve used the film’s 1983 theatrical mix found in the 5.1 channel DTS audio stream of the Despecialized Edition. So, these audio files are 98.41% SE97 audio and 1.59% of GOUT audio.
The Special Edition mix is sourced from CapableMetal’s DTS file that was made from a set of Cinema DTS-CD ROM discs from the collection of Jetrell Fo. The data from the discs was extracted to a set of 6 PCM mono wave files representing the film’s surround soundtrack. Each audio file was processed and sync’d to fit TB broadcasts of the SE97 edition by CapableMetal, so, the SE97 mix presented in this audio file is from his work and I appreciate his effort and for his sharing, as well as, to Jetrell Fo for acquiring the discs.
FAQ:
Wouldn’t one audio file work with both the DE 2.0 and Grindhouse?
Well, let me start-off by saying that both videos are different in length.
The Renegade Grindhouse ESB is a scan of a theatrical release print and that print has missing frames from the GOUT version. By the time you get to an hour and 44 minutes into the movie (after the lightsaber duel at the carbon freeze chamber), 3 and a quarter seconds worth of footage would be missing from the print.
The Despecialized Edition runs over a minute and a half longer then the Grindhouse. Not only does this edition have the GOUT version uncut, but after the film’s official credits are done, a set of credits for this edition are displayed that add-on to the video’s length.
So, one audio file will not work for both releases because the audio will not be in good sync with one of the videos. That is why I’ve prepared an audio file for each version.
Kk650 released his color regrade of this film with the Cinema DTS Special Edition audio. Could I just mux that audio to either one of the said videos?
I suppose you could. As I do not have kk650 video, I can not say for certain. You would have to check the length of both kk650’s video and Harmy’s. If there is a difference, you would have to play with the audio delay to get a good sync. Here is a suggestion: Cue up both videos to the first frame where the Star Wars logo image appears, get the timecode position of that frame from both videos, calculate the difference from the timecode positions, and use that value–in hh:mm: ss:mmm—in your muxer’s delay adjuster. If it works out for you, then you do not need my DE audio file. If you do not want to do all that work, my file has done it for you.
However, for the Grindhouse version, I would bet that kk650’s audio would not be in good sync, especially by the time that video reaches the hour and 3 quarter mark because of the release print’s missing frames.
Enjoy.
Just a heads-up:
I’ve prepared a 5.1 DTS audio stream for the said release that contains the Special Edition ’97 mix of Star Wars:ANH with hairy_hen’s reconstruction of the 1977 70mm 6 track to patch up GOUT footages that the SE 97 audio would appear inappropriate. So, this audio stream is 95.47% of SE audio and 4.53% of GOUT audio
The audio has been edited to play in-sync with not only this release, but, also, Harmy’s Star Wars: Despecialized Edition 2.7
This is just another way to view the GOUT version. It can be found on the ‘spleen.
I’ve made these edits from the DTS-HD MA file, found on the 'spleen, provided by CapableMetal (not to be confused with the unprocessed and unsync’d wave files of the SE’97 trilogy also found on the 'spleen and provided by CapableMetal). The source of the SE’97 audio came from the Cinema DTS CD-ROM discs (from the collection of Jetrell Fo) where the data was encrypted to 6 mono PCM wave files representing each channel of the surround soundtrack. CapableMetal processed and sync’d each of the 6 files to fit TB broadcasts of the SE97, so, the SE97 mix presented in this audio file is from CapableMetal’s work and I appreciate his effort and for his sharing, as well, to Jetrell Fo for obtaining the discs.
After completing the file, the thought occurred to me that kk650 had released his color regrade of the Star Wars OT with the Cinema DTS audio of the SE97. I do not have these so I am not sure the audio can be played in sync with DE 2.7 or the Silver Screen v1.6. But I did the work anyway just for the fun of watching the ’77 release with the ’97 audio, so, I think that this is how one should approach it.
For what it’s worth, enjoy!
Since that film was released in the 1970’s, that was the standard surround sound configuration at that time–left(1), center(2), right(3), and 2 mono surround channels.
You can read more about here:
Dolby Digital 4.1 Surround - Alien Anthology
Edit:
I meant to say that the 4th channel is used for surround and that signal would have been sent to what ever number of rear speakers that auditorium had.
From my reading, are you trying to add the German audio from Laserschwerts (Krieg der Sterne Despecialized Edition 2.5) to the video of official GOUT DVD?