alexp120

I was hoping someone with experience in Premiere Pro would respond to your query by now, as I am not familiar with that software. However, with some sync’ing projects that I’ve done, I’ll attempt to answer.

From my reading, both the video and audio are from one source, the .VOB files, right? If that is the case: from your description of your sync’ing issue, when you imported the .VOB files to Premiere Pro, the frame rate of the video—the amount of frames displayed per second (fps)—may have changed, but the audio that was sync’d to the .VOB files remained the same. You may have to convert your restored video back to the fps it was in the .VOB files so that your finished video can be sync’d to the original audio.

So, first, compare the fps of the .VOB files, your imported video, and/or your finished video and see if there is a difference.

Can you describe the source of the video and the source of the audio that you are sync’ing to that video?

Experience these films as never before at the world’s first-ever live performance of Star Wars – Film Concert Series! Don’t miss your chance to see these epic films on screen with the unparalleled New York Philharmonic performing the iconic music of John Williams. Tickets are available only via presale to New York Philharmonic 2017–18 subscribers and current members at the Patron level and above; any remaining tickets will go on sale to the general public on May 4.

https://nyphil.org/concerts-tickets/explore/1718/star-wars

15 SEPTEMBER, 2017 FRIDAY 8:00 PM - Star Wars: A New Hope – In Concert
16 SEPTEMBER, 2017 SATURDAY 8:00 PM - Star Wars: A New Hope – In Concert

26 SEPTEMBER, 2017 TUESDAY 7:30 PM - Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back – In Concert
27 SEPTEMBER, 2017 WEDNESDAY 7:30 PM - Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back – In Concert
28 SEPTEMBER, 2017 THURSDAY 7:30 PM - Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back – In Concert

4 OCTOBER, 2017 WEDNESDAY 7:30 PM - Star Wars: Return of the Jedi – In Concert
5 OCTOBER, 2017 THURSDAY 7:30 PM - Star Wars: Return of the Jedi – In Concert
6 OCTOBER, 2017 FRIDAY 8:00 PM - Star Wars: The Force Awakens – In Concert
7 OCTOBER, 2017 SATURDAY 8:00 PM - Star Wars: The Force Awakens – In Concert

Venue: David Geffen Hall (formerly known as: Avery Fisher Hall), New York City, NY

Anyone considering attending the event and doing an audio capture of this performance, so that it can be sync’d to the commercial Blu Ray?

As for listening to this audio with the GOUT: I suppose someone with exceptional audio-editing skills can make this happened, also. Even if sound-effects from the 2004 edition would appear out-of-place in the GOUT cut, it’s all about the performance of the music and sounds of the crowd.

EDIT 12/04/2017:
One of our members, bilditup1, made a capture of the ANH and ESB performances. Here are his notes from this thread.

bilditup1 said:

Hey all,

As you guys probably know, this past month, Star Wars, ESB, ROTJ, and TFA were screened with a live performance of John Williams’ scores by the New York Philharmonic at David Geffen Hall, under composer/conductor David Newman. I was fortunate enough to attend Star Wars and ESB and make crude recordings of both with RecForge II on my phone. Unfortunately I didn’t plan any of this out, or I would have tried to smuggle in at least my Tascam recorder, or at least have the presence of mind to change my usual recording settings either time (so we’re limited to a mono, 16-bit/44.1kHz PCM recording, which for Star Wars especially is pretty hot since I forgot to take levels). I was also sitting all the way in the back (last row of Third Tier) for Star Wars, and almost all the way (middle of Second Tier) for Empire, so it probably isn’t ideal acoustically. Still, IMHO, they are very listenable as is, warts and all.

Some thoughts:
Newman was obviously limited by the fact that he had to keep the score in sync to the films but did nonetheless get to play with tempo, dynamics, and instrumentation a bit. When the score as heard in the film differed from that on the released OSTs, he always chose the film version of the orchestration (though that probably also differs a bit from the final film cut). The roughness of ESB overall is a testament to how much that film must have changed after having been scored, and the utter freaking jarring obnoxiousness of the 2011 additions (particularly in ESB) were only accentuated by the orchestra’s presence. Star Wars sounded a lot more complete and coherent, even with the digressions introduced around Mos Eisley. (Speaking of - Fiery Figrin Da’an and his Modal Nodes were not represented by the NYPhil, in case anyone was ondering.)
Nonetheless it was a pretty wild experience both times (esp ESB, which was on my birthday) and I wish I could have attended ROTJ and TFA as well. One thing I didn’t anticipate - probably because this was the first time I’ve seen either Star Wars or ESB in theaters - for example, was that er, this is a screening of Star Wars in a very large public space in a very large city, so most of the attendees, while obviously John Williams fans, were uh also very much Star Wars fans first - the 501st were out in force, there were a few cosplayers in the crowd, etc. Thus this wasn’t exactly a stuffy performance where you’d be liable to get shushed - which while better from a perspective of getting a definitive recording of Newman’s version, or ya know, for just hearing everything, also makes for a pretty engaging experience of its own. So while I was pretty annoyed at first, especially at some of the kids (they were eventually brought in line, lolz), eventually I embraced it (though I generally did not react with them, and good for that eh): jokes that I thought were banal or dumb or gah-it-was-cool-a-thousand-watches-ago-but-definitely-not-anymore came right back to life. Sometimes the cheers were for the characters, sometimes for the music, and sometimes both. All in all, pretty amazing.

Anyway, I don’t really have audio editing chops beyond doing simple cuts and amplifies in Audacity. No Izotope, Audition, etc. So initially I was just going to try to cut these up into something approximating e.g. ABC’s IAE V2 (organized by cue) and see what I can do with this crude thing, make it a learning experience etc. But I was hunting through the spleen recently and it looks like someone, after all these years, finally took the time to sync Scofield (hurray!) as well a hitherto unknown recording of ESB on opening night, so I thought there might be some interest in trying to sync this, warts and all, even just to the 2011 BDs. I’d love to say that I’d make the time to do that myself but any kind of sync nonsense drives me insane/strikes ph34r into my heart. Plus, there were intermissions both time, with some repetition of the last cue before intermission at the start of the second half of Star Wars, and a cut-down concert-suite rendition of the Imperial March at the start of the second half of Empire &c. So, as a practical matter, unless some of the older hands here talk me into it, I’m probably not going to take the time to attempt this. But I bet one of you fine people would like to, or at least have advice. Please chime in below! Let’s make this happen!

Upd01
So natch I didn’t search the forums first or I would have found that indeed there was already a thread on this and that DFNYC attended all four screenings and made a presumably much much recording. It looks like we definitely attended different screenings for Star Wars, may have attended different screenings for ESB.
In any case, alexp120 and I are officially in business. Watch this space…

JayArgonaut said:

The broadcast is to my surprise, uncensored with the expletives “bastards” and “horse shit” included but the first couple of minutes are missing because C4 began the broadcast earlier than billed (and even earlier than my PVR’s “padding” compensation feature). If I’d realised in time, I would’ve grabbed the time shifted +1 broadcast an hour later.

The portions that were not recorded: Would the shot in the beginning of the film where Bodine says, “You’re so full of shit, boss” be among them? That is the first expletive in the movie at 3 minutes and 19 seconds into it.

Perhaps we take the beginning parts of captures from the previous broadcasts–censored or otherwise–and edit them to your current capture.

As an alternative, you can just send the MKV file to a USB stick, then insert that stick into the USB port of your Blu Ray player. I’ve been doing that for years.

Beware: some Blu Ray players will not play the DTS audio tracks, like my LG model.

This community already has a print, courtesy of Poita (see Sept.16th post).

Also, poita says this (Sept 17th post)

poita said:

I currently have no resources or storage available for scanning it, but the print is here and looks good.

Finally, poita says this: (Sept 18th post)

poita said:

The runtime is 195 minutes, that is ten reels of 35mm, it is a beast. If you want to pony up the $700 in return freight, plus funds for the HDDs and scanning, then sure thing ;^) I’d be more than happy to send it to along to them 😃

In all seriousness I don’t currently have the 30TB storage to scan it here, and my scanner needs a new driver board, so it will be on the shelf anyway till that is replaced.
If the opportunity comes up to get it scanned, I will certainly get it done, at the moment it is going to sit in the archive for a while.

So, from my reading of this last post, what is involved is the cost of freight, scanning, and HDDs.

If anyone can make this happened, I’ll be the first to do a monetary donation to the project…well, maybe not the first, but I’ll donate 😃

Good luck.

Thaddäus Tentakel said:

The UK-broadcasts on 4 I’ve seen showed much more of that violence but in return such things as Fred Fleet screaming “Basterds!” into the phone are missing there.

It goes without saying that if a capture of the pre-2012 version is made where the violence is retained, but the dialogue is censored, there is no need to discard it. The audio from the DVD/BluRay can be used to replace it.

Just wondering if there is still interest in restoring this pre-2012 cut of the film.

To: JayArgonaut

JayArgonaut said:

I contacted C4 to ask if there’s any possibility they’ll show it again in the near future, uncut and received the following response…

“Unfortunately there are no current plans to repeat this programme, however, I will pass on your interest for this film to be repeated post watershed to those responsible for our programming”

Let’s see what happens. 😃

Perhaps you can contact Channel 4 again to inquire about another broadcast of this film, as this year is the film’s 20th Anniversary.

The 5.1 surround mix heard in the Despecialized is a recreation made from several sources found on LaserDisc, DVD, and Blu Ray releases. You can read about it here:

Star Wars 1977 70mm sound mix recreation [stereo and 5.1 versions now available]

alexp120 said:

If you look at the Nov. 5th post of this thread…

http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Amadeus-Theatrical-Cut-Restoration-1080p-V2/id/16803/page/15

zxthehedgehog said:
…If anyone else wants it, just send me a PM instead of using this thread.

So, try PM’ing that member.

Also, from this very page…

zxthehedgehog said:
You may not be able to get in touch with jimbotron235, but Handman, myself, and a few others still send out PMs for it.

So, give Handman or zxthehedgehog your request via PM, OK 😃

Although totally unrelated to this project, I just uploaded on that popular organ of the human body an MKV version of this 2002 cut that is made from the following elements:

• A 720p capture of the film from HDNET.
• All of the audio tracks from the 2002 DVD release that I’ve sync’d to this capture which includes:
  • The 2002 English sound-mix in DTS 5.1 channel sound
  • The 2002 English sound-mix in Dolby Digital 5.1 channel sound
  • The 2002 French sound-mix in Dolby Digital 5.1 channel sound
  • The Live-Performance Audio from the premiere-screening at the Shrine Auditorium featuring John Williams’ Oscar-winning music score being performed live to picture, orchestra conducted by the composer, in Dolby Digital 5.1 channel sound

This capture was made by another member of that said forum and it was previously released in October 2016 in that forum as part of his BD50 ISO file, E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial Archives [BD-50]. Unfortunately, in that ISO, one of the 2 audio streams, the live performance audio, was not sync’d property to this capture. With my own copy of that 2002 DVD, I made a rip of it, took out a few seconds—both at the beginning, just before the studio logo clip appears and at the end, just after the end credits; and muxed both the AC3 and DTS streams from that DVD to the capture. All the streams are properly sync’d to this video. That member gave me his permission to release this capture provided that it be kept in that forum.

Also, this capture has a HDNET MOVIES logo on the bottom right-side of the screen that is displayed for one time at the duration of 11 seconds.

Hopefully, this post will re-ignite this project for a higher-resolution quality of the reconstruction for this version of the film.

If this project does get restarted, please, let me know if I can help with the audio sync’ing/editing.

…and the majority of the films are presented in full screen/pan and scan.

Edit:
As a previous collectior of the CED format, I can testify that this edition of Raiders was in pan and scan.

There is this reconstruction of the Special Edition for Episode VI: A New Hope called Harmy’s Star Wars Respecialized Edition which uses the theatrical DTS sound mix.
You can find that here
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Harmys-STAR-WARS-Respecialized-Edition-97-AVCHD-and-MKV-now-out/id/16682

Also, there are rips of the laserdisc releases for the Star Wars Trilogy Special Edition that you can find here:
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Star-Wars-Special-Edition-Trilogy-Japan-Laserdiscs/id/53489

rodofshadows said:

For the love of Star Wars OT, where do I get this? I’m dying here guys…

Well, then stop your dying and start reading those 170 pages.

Or, you can open a Google search engine and type this

site:originaltrilogy.com

make a space, then type…

the name of this thread

make a space and then type…

your question.

There’s bound to be many folks asking this same question. Out of those people, one person gets his question answered.

So, you have a choice:

Be richer with knowledge and do the former option, or have a quick answer and do the latter.

Either way, you’ll win.

Good luck.

Edit:
To the seasoned members here: feel free to use to quote in other FAQ on other threads.

A single RCA audio cable, like this…

…plugged from the coaxial output port of the Demodulator to the coaxial input port of your receiver/amplifier will work just as good.

This setup got me through before I upgraded to HDMI ports.

Edit:
If you are connecting to an audio card of your computer, you’ll need an RCA Male to 3.5mm Male Cable, like this…

If anyone is interested, this has surfaced on ebay…
INDIANA JONES AND TEMPLE OF DOOM 1984 COLOR/ SOUND 35MM SCOPE FEATURE VERY GOOD

That is good to know.
I didn’t mean to start a panic amongst the community regarding my calling out on the cropping 😐

Say, Poita,
Are you aware that in the German Print/Reel 3 scan, there’s some cropping?

Here is one frame from the scan of the German print.

And here is the same frame from the UK print.

In the area between the 2 yellow lines is the picture information as it appears in the scan of the German print. The areas above the upper yellow line and below the bottom yellow line are what are missing in the German print scan.

Was this a glitch in the scanning device?

Revolution said:

Is there any interest in obtaining a true 5.1 source or using the 6.1 source from the blu >rays etc?

• Rev

If you need to cure your 5.1 fix, on the 'spleen there are audio files for the Star Wars Original Trilogy (aka. GOUT) that uses the rarely heard 1997 Special Edition sound mix made from the original CinemaDTS CD-ROM discs. Of course, portions of the audio include the sound mix from the GOUT to patch over footages where the 1997 SE audio would be out-of-place.

Just mux these to the MKV video and you are good to go.

Here are the shots that have missing frames from the red –faded version of the portion of Reel 2 from the German print of ESB.

As you have requested, I am identifying the skip-frames of these shots from the scan as file names that are posted on the bottom of each frame in the scan. I hope that I am interpreting your request.

For GOUT References, I’ll be using this timestamp format–Time (mm:ss.ff) / Frames numbers,

Han Fixing Falcon

File Names:
SRC TC/Fm: 01:00:00:01/1 through SRC TC/Fm: 01:00:03:19/91, Number of Frames: 91
GOUT Frames Missing: 10. They should appear before file name, SRC TC/Fm: 01:00:00:01/1

GOUT References:
Harmy’s: 21:22.05/30743-30834, Number of Frames: 101
Renegade Grindhouse ESB: Print has missing frames also.

Veers leaves Vader, upper half of Vader’s chamber lifts to reveal viewing screen

File Names:
SRC TC/Fm: 01:01:48:22/2614 through SRC TC/Fm: 01:02:06:05/3029, Number of Frames: 416
GOUT Frames Missing: 7. They should appear between Files Names, 01:01:58:22/2854 and 01:01:58:23/2855. In those 7 missing frames, the static on the viewing screen would dissolve to the image of the officers. In the German print, the static image on the viewing screen jump-cuts to the image of the officers.

GOUT References
Harmy’s: 23:11.15/33366-33788, Number of Frames: 423
Renegade Grindhouse ESB: 23:10.21/33348-33770, Number of Frames: 423

Vader’s Medium Shot

Files Names:
SRC TC/Fm: 01:02:06:06/3030 through 01:02:10:07/3127, Number of Frames: 98
GOUT Missing Frames 24.
There are two skip frames in this shot.
The 1st one occurs between file names 01:02:09:18/3114 and 01:02:09:19/3115. In 01:02:09:18/3114, there are two dark horizontal lines on the bottom of that frame and on 01:02:09:19/3115, there is one dark horizontal line on the top of that frame.
The 2nd skip frame occurs after file number 01:02:10:07/3127, where there are two horizontal lines on the bottom of the screen

GOUT Reference:
Harmy’s : 23:29.06/33789-33910, Number of Frames: 122
Renegade Grindhouse: 23:28.12/33771-33892, Number of Frames: 122

Vader’s Viewing Screen: Ozzel gasps for air, Piett reacts

File Names:
SRC TC/Fm: 01:02:10:08/3128 through 01:02:11:00/3144, Number of frames: 17
In those missing frames, which should appear before file name-01:02:10:08/3128, Ozzel’s gasping face would go from full-face, move backward, and turn to profile.

GOUT Reference:
Harmy’s: 23:34.08/33911-34025, Number of Frames: 115
Renegade Grindhouse: 23:33.14/33893-34007, Number of Frames: 115

Luke Opens Belly compartment of Snowwalker with Lightsaber

File Names:
SRC TC/Fm 01:11:01:23/15887 through 01:11:06:16/16000, Number of frames: 114
GOUT Missing Frames: 37
Missing frames should appear after file name 01:11:06:16/16000

GOUT Reference:
Harmy’s: 32:30.14/46768-46918, Number of frames: 151
Renegade Grindhouse: 32:29.18/46748-46898, Number of frames: 151

Here is my analysis of the shots that have missing frames from a portion of Reel 2 of the German print of ESB.
GOUT Reference: Harmy’s ESB Despecialized Edition. MKV video, 23.975fps.
Additional Reference: Renegade Grindhouse ESB. M2ts video of release print scan, 23.975fps.

For each source of each shot, I’ll be using this format to describe position of the length of the video:
Time (mm:ss.ff) / Frames numbers,

Han Fixing Falcon

GOUT: 21:22.05/30743-30834, Number of Frames: 101
Renegade Grindhouse: 21:21.13/30727-30825, Number of Frames: 99 (missing frames from the head-end of this shot)
UK Print: 00:00.01/1-91, Number of Frames: 91
Comments: 10 missing of the GOUT from the head-end of this shot

Veers leaves Vader, upper half of Vader’s chamber lifts to reveal viewing screen

GOUT: 23:11.15/33366-33788, Number of Frames: 423
Renegade Grindhouse: 23:10.21/33348-33770, Number of Frames: 423
UK Print: 01:44.14/2614-3029, Number of Frames: 416
Comments: Missing 7 frames. To be honest, I can’t find where the skip-frame is in the UK print. The shot looks physically clean.

Vader’s Medium Shot

GOUT: 23:29.06/33789-33910, Number of Frames: 122
Renegade Grindhouse: 23:28.12/33771-33892, Number of Frames: 122
UK Print: 02:01.05/3030-3127, Number of Frames: 98
Comments: Missing 24 frames. I am taking a guess that the missing frames are from the tail-end of this shot because of the shot that follows…

Vader’s Viewing Screen: Ozzel gasps for air, Piett reacts

GOUT: 23:34.08/33911-34025, Number of Frames: 115
Renegade Grindhouse: 23:33.14/33893-34007, Number of Frames: 115
UK Print: 02:05.03/3128-3144, Number of Frames: 17
Comments: 98 frames missing from the the head-end of this shot.

Luke opens belly compartment of snowwalker with lightsaber

GOUT: 32:30.14/46768-46918, Number of Frames: 151
Renegade Grindhouse: 32:29.18/46748-46898, Number of Frames: 151
UK Print: 10:35.12/15887-16000, Number of Frames: 114
Comments: 37 missing from the tail-end of this shot.

Total Number of Missing Frames: 176, over 7 seconds of footage

What is impressive about this print is that even though I know where the skip-frame is in a shot, I see no evidence of where a frame may have been damaged-- dried-on adhesive markings, a torn frame that is poorly pieced together, etc. Either some digital enhancement has been applied to the frame to remove the said anomalies or the person maintained this print very well.

JEDIT:
UK Print… Of course, I meant the German print. I’m sorry for that

poita said:

If someone wants to go through the 16000 frames of the German reel I had partially scanned and look for missing frames vs the GOUT, feel free to do so 😃

Should we report our findings via a post or through PM?

Swift S. Lawliet said:

Excuse me, but how do I convert the raw .wav files of the 1993 mixes from schorman’s collection to DTS-HD Master Audio?

I am planning on doing a separate MKA with lossless 1993 mixes since Harmy only added the 1993 mixes in lossy Dolby Digital format.

I know the 1993 mixes aren’t theatrical mixes but I am partial to them since they were the most polished pre-1997 mixes IMO and are my favorite.

To encode the .wav file of the 2-channel ’93 mix to DTS-HD MA bitstream, you’ll need the software, DTS Master Suite and that costs $1500.

A much cheaper and effective alternative would be to download the free audio software, Audacity, sync up the ‘93 two-channel mix to the audio of the despecialized edition, and save your edit as one 2-channel .wav file. Your new edited .wav file of the ’93 mix will still be lossless–no compression is applied. Then, add (or mux) your new wav file to the MKV video using another free software, MKVToolNix

That is how I did it when I edited schorman13’s LaserDisc audio rip of Raiders of the Lost Ark to fit litemakr’s Raiders LPP scan.

It is possible to insert 6.1 sound from the Blu Ray to the Despecialized edition, however the Blu Ray is the special edition cut with added shots not seen in the Despecialized edition. Therefore, the audio would have to be edited down to fit the Despecialized edition. Also, special edition audio that would be inappropriate for the Despecialized edition have to be removed and replaced with the Despecialized audio, like Luke’s scream as he falls down the Bespin reactor shaft in the SE cut (what I hear among the OT community, that is a pet peeve).

As for audio files for LaserDisc audio mixes, our member–schorman13–made an archive where he ripped audio tracks–AC3 bitstream, digital and analogue stereo tracks–from all the LaserDisc releases and uploaded them. They are on the usual place.

You can read about it here:
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Star-Wars-Laser-Disc-Audio-Archive/id/14542

Mind you, these audio files are not Blu-Disc ready, so, if you are making discs of these, you are going to have do the work in:

1. Upsampling them from 44.1kHz to 48kHz
2. Sync’ing these tracks to what ever version of the video you like