act on instinct

Maybe Star Wars hasn’t been unique for a long time, but with an original vision (that everyone would have hated) I think it at least would have had a chance to be remembered in its own way, I now mostly hear it lumped together with the sea of other sequel reboots that all happened/are happening around the same time. After Guardians of the Galaxy I wondered how Star Wars could top it for the kids who were already getting their first kind of sci-fi adventure that way. I didn’t care for Avatar but I still am intrigued with what James Cameron will do for the sequel, I probably won’t like the story there either but I’m sure it will have more of the ambition I would have hoped from a next generation Star Wars. I think that’s why some are so excited for Dune, I remember being cautiously hopeful even for Valerian to deliver more of that lush world. For it to be a special event the event should be special, lately seems what we’re supposed to feel special about is that it’s Star Wars by default, I’m not willing to bow in allegiance to brand alone.

That’s what I expect too, and I wouldn’t blame ST if all future Star Wars shifted to exclusively streaming, more a change with the times. Hell, there should have been a live action show ages ago.

Broom Kid said:

Does anyone think watching Agents of SHIELD led to increased attendance for Marvel movies? Or had any effect on that attendance at all?

I’m calling apples to oranges here for a few reasons, though it isn’t a bad example. First being Agents of SHIELD largely failing to be a success, basically never achieved buzz for anything, fans were not making a choice between the movies or the show as the movies were the clear victors and the show itself seemed largely to be a low rent commercial for the movies anyway rather than its own thing. Netflix series like Daredevil made an impression but again were sort of downplayed, to the point where I’m not exactly sure what kind of limbo state those shows are in now. With Star Wars there is something more unique going on being the first of live action shows within the universe (AND placed in a time period within the saga fans seem to keep wanting to return to) and definitely is seeing production value much closer to that of the movies than a traditional network show. Fans never had this choice with Star Wars before, maybe they would have made it and bailed on the prequels if they had an equally budgeted KOTR show or the Mandalorian then.

“Oh no!”

That is definitely dedication, I wouldn’t say I’m apathetic but I would be by comparison. For me the disinterest started at Rogue One. I never read any of the expanded universe books or comics or watched the animated shows, I played some of the games but just like I had a toy lightsaber I didn’t exactly go out of my way to do that, everyone had one. The movies I considered separate. I’d probably agree with Bob Iger they got a bit overzealous and started planning too many projects too fast, before now theatrically released Star Wars films were a semi-rarity, the special event. When I gave Rogue One a chance personally I found it to be less like a movie and more like a collection of cut scenes, I understand what people mean when they say the new action polished up with heightened realism brought them to a certain point of immersion with Star Wars they haven’t felt since they were a kid, but I felt like I had already done that with the video games and what was left rang a little hollow to me.

From there I figured I just didn’t have the investment to be as interested in seeing every anthology movie, unless it otherwise hooked me. When I went to see TLJ I was still excited, but by the time I was hit by the crawl I realized I just didn’t have the same feeling I did when the iconic theme played over TFA, the brand already felt sort of diluted in a way. I’m not actually very cynical, I didn’t expect to react that way, but it has changed the feeling in the air.

Did you see Solo?

Mocata said:

I think there’s a difference between what might be “true” fans who would say Disney SW isn’t real SW and “hardcore” fans who just enjoy SW. I don’t consider myself in either of these camps though, since I don’t care for the ultra gritty grey style of the spinoff media but will go see TROS… even though I don’t have much hope for it.

Yes! That’s a lot to do with it I believe, there is a feeling out there among a group that have decanonized “Disney Wars” and don’t take it seriously or see it more as a reboot, both hardcore and casual, even if it’s just nostalgia goggles. That would answer the question as to why they wouldn’t be in for a new Star Wars film, they don’t consider it Star Wars. I also have never watched anything made by Dave Feloni but I understand he has an inner circle seal of approval by fans and Lucas. That accounts for the hardcore contingent, are they Lucas loyalists? After all this time?

Personally I wouldn’t mind if there was a fair amount of story appropriate time jumping in the series, a lot of us probably would enjoy Qui-Gon as a force ghost but I also like the idea of limited flashbacks, even playing with the ages considering that’s basically the new CGI trope these days.

My ideal version would be old Ben, the wandering Jedi, roaming the desert in hiding, maybe caught between the dilemma of helping another or exposing himself to the new Empire on high alert to track him down, interspersed with reflective moments ruminating over his past with some familiar faces, some prequel redemption.

Sort of like…El Camino?

DominicCobb said:

Does it? Are there hardcore fans in this thread who are unwilling to go?

There have been comments made on this forum if not this thread by those who have claimed to be not going, not that I am trying to lionize that side or suggest they represent the majority but to those who feel that way I would say fair enough, free to do as they choose. But I wouldn’t discount them as hardcore fans, especially if they’re here at all. I really don’t want to get caught into a semantics thing though with what qualifies as or defines hardcore, it’s about the segment of otherwise dedicated fans who don’t enjoy the current direction of the ST or anthology movies.

If so, I’d love to hear if Mandalorian would make them more likely to because I don’t understand that line of thinking.

That’s sort of twisting my question as though it were my conclusion, I wanted to lay out the optimistic scenario and pessimistic for discussion. With respect to the former, the idea to me isn’t so far-fetched that the Mandalorian as a success wouldn’t also function as an extended advertisement for not just Disney+ but Star Wars generally as a hype machine, getting everyone talking about new Star Wars content overall and being more in the spirit to readily accept where they may have previously reacted apprehensively i.e. Solo.

Mandalorian was not going to be a film. The Boba Fett movie was a separate project.

Is this not splitting hairs a little? And what about the Kenobi series?

For hardcore fans I don’t really believe that’s true for the most part.

For any fans what they respond to the most will be the leading creative direction of Star Wars for the foreseeable future. And with the two projects contrasted in tone being released within only a month of each other, due to the proximity alone I find it feels like turning a blind eye to presume both can exist in a vacuum without some influence on the fate of the other.

DominicCobb said:

Hardcore fans are going to see TROS either way. Mandalorian will have nothing to do with it.

The question was specifically about fans who were polarized and not going, I think this thread alone shows you can both be a hardcore Star Wars fan and still be unwilling to see TRoS, at least in theaters.

I don’t understand the idea that’s constant floated around here that people will only see the new Disney Star Wars thing if they liked the last one, these are separate projects and audiences are generally smart enough to understand that. Anyway, if the reception of a previous project will determine the success of the next, by that metric shouldn’t Mandalorian be in potential jeopardy because of Solo and TLJ? No. The truth is Mandalorian will do big numbers, but they will obviously nothing compared to TROS, and neither will have much to do with the other.

Well, considering there originally was going to be a Mandalorian based movie and now we’re even getting the same treatment for the upcoming Kenobi series I would say yes it is a factor. Really isn’t just about a single movie either it’s the whole direction of the brand and how fans feel about it. I agree the two projects won’t have much to do with each other, another way to say that is you could pick one without needing to see both. The question is does that satisfy the split (however hypothetically large or small) within the demographics of fans who are happy/unhappy with the ST, or lead to greater fracturing or at least compartmentalizing between the groups and respective content?

If anything Mandalorian is a risk for TROS’s potential. We’ve never had live action Star Wars on the small screen, and Mandalorian looks to be feature film quality. If audiences see that they can just get Star Wars in the comfort of their living room, they might be less incentivized to go out for it. But again, that’s not hardcore fans, who will show up either way.

It is part of the broader theatrical vs streaming conversation, for sure. Truly I don’t have the answer, was trying to leave room for opinion, I really can’t say if the Mandalorian undercuts IX or hypes everyone up for more after they’ve completed the first season. My point though being the success or failure of any of these projects does influence the surrounding universe movies and their potential future.

Here’s a question, how do we factor in The Mandalorian if it proves to be a hit with the same hardcore fans (for lack of a better word) who may have been polarized by the ST? Does it help or hurt IX’s numbers either as a sign of good faith and renewed interest or be just more incentive to stay home and watch their Star Wars the way they like it?

The shot of Luke looking up at the star destroyer as just a faint glint in the distance is one I wish still could have made it into the movie above all deleted scenes, yet the pacing obviously puts Luke earlier and indicates a more traditional pacing.

Broom Kid said:

act on instinct said:

Nailed it, the slapdash retroactive structuring with little coherence and all convenience.

That’s basically Star Wars. Since around 1980 forward.

Probably stands to reason why ANH is my favorite

pleasehello said:
I don’t want to be jerked around and I don’t want to be treated like a dummy.

Nailed it, the slapdash retroactive structuring with little coherence and all convenience.

ray_afraid said:

fmalover said:

Is there a reason why the Hutts are all portrayed in a negative way?

Seriously, they are always slimy scumbags, and I don’t recall a single Hutt with genuinely noble intentions.

This has bugged me, too.
In TPM some guy says “The Hutts are gangsters!” Like, all of em? The entire species?
Stupid.

I don’t find it stupid unless Star Wars is stupid, what about the Tusken Raiders? It’s way more classic fantasy in that way, the flying monkeys are bad, the orcs are evil orcs, unlike Warcraft orcs.

The obvious followup question is what happens to Rian but that should be its own discussion, still, he was said to also be working with Benioff & Weiss, did one project overtake the other? What was the potential partnership? Of course the story from their end is they left amicably and of their own choosing but from all sides what’s the real story?

Font choice is always a gamble, I just picture six people crowded around a monitor looking at 20 slightly different samples slowly going mad at 3am, very relatable by the way. What really stands out for me is that hard break between real Drew Struzan oil paints to photoshop by the end, I know there is painted artwork of the sequel characters more consistent with the older posters, they really all should look like a legacy set by the end.

may eventually revise to 680/1.4 if situation permits but still seems too early to predict the climate, and I definitely don’t buy into the presale as definitive of anything.

Frozen 2 is the real head scratcher here, it’s clearly going to be huge, why undercut IX?

Put my opening at 240,

It’s fun seeing some of those white hallways and appreciate the production design expanding on the style of the OT with less limitations. Not in love with everything but it was a damn fine trailer and the right move showing as much as they did, for those genuinely on the fence with the ST or cautiously optimistic of IX I believe this worked as show of good faith.

For the record since I’m not seeing the most favorable comments towards the new season I’ll just throw my hat in the ring to say I absolutely loved every minute of The Return.

I think it would be too disappointing, yes, for all the parallels you mentioned, but the idea of Vader’s extended rehabilitation is interesting. Depending on how you rearrange the timeline you could make it seem as though the process takes a long time, with other events taking place during the recovery.

Didn’t expect to bump the thread the day Robert Forster dies. RIP to Frank Truman.

SparkySywer said:

Luke projecting in TLJ had a lot more importance than Yoda projecting in the prequels would. It has consequences, for example Luke can’t be killed by Kylo Ren because he’s not really there. Yoda projecting would just be an unimportant detail since it doesn’t have any tangible effect, and would probably undermine Luke’s projection in TLJ.

Don’t let me get in the way of anything, but I think projection Yoda is a bad idea.

There may be a compromise, an important point is that Yoda cannot be there, undermining force projection in general would be dead right if he was still on Geonosis basically only miles away from being there physically, in a hypothetical 3-in-1 the timing of events may be shifted putting Yoda in a position (maybe kashyyyk?) far away and restricted, unable to attend for some other plot circumstance. Yoda would have consequence as he senses Dooku besting Obi-Wan and Anakin, the foretold chosen one they’ve been watching, early drafts of Return of the Jedi had projections of Yoda facing the Emperor in some capacity so I don’t think it’s that far of a stretch, mileage may vary on whether it’s a cool parallel or a half baked rip off.

How we all feel now?

Was watching this behind the scenes video with ILM model makers talking about the original designs for some of the ships compared to the final. I haven’t seen Solo and maybe they’ve done something clever as throwback to this before but was very intrigued by the idea brought up of the falcon having a rotating cockpit. Then I wondered with some stabilization or roto work can this simulated?