Swift S. Lawliet

RU.08 said:

Swift S. Lawliet said:

Also, the lack of grain is actually the thing everyone should’ve done with the Star Wars prequels as they were shot digitally (at least for AOTC and ROTS, TPM should’ve had the grain).

I assume you’re kidding? If you’re going to go down that path then the resolution should be 1280×1024 since that’s what you saw in a digital cinema in 2002 or 2005. Most people, like I did, saw the movies on 35mm in higher quality.

I think the grain would have a more filmic look that kinda looks nice.

I think the 35mm grain is subjective for live action films.

And AOTC was a different version on the 35mm version rather than the digital cinema version (which is also on DVD).

Anyways, let us not derail the discussion further and let us talk about who would do the BATB restoration and how.

RU.08 said:

Swift S. Lawliet said:

Okay… But at least the overall quality will still be better.

Yes, almost certainly. Disney animations don’t contain the same level of detail as live-action, they were produced at 2K (2048x1080) and cropped from 1.66:1 to 1.85:1 on film (as per the pics). So I wouldn’t expect to find any more detail than already exists on bluray, at least in terms of luminance, but the chroma detail will be better whereas the BD is already at 8bits per channel - which means they’re crushed and that could prove a problem when regrading. As for grain - I’ve seen BATB, Aladdin and Lion King all projected from 35mm in a cinema and I can tell you the grain is fainter than you’d see on a scan. So in terms of graininess I actually agree the BD is better because it has no grain.

But look with all that said, I expect you could do a de-specialized, I’m just feel you’ll need more 35mm content then you might think! As mentioned, once we get this scanned you’re welcome to a 4K copy for the price of a HDD and you can knock yourself out with whatever projects you like - I don’t mind! You can regrade the scan to something entirely different if that’s to your taste. 😃

I told you, I can’t actually do it.

But maybe we can direct it together while someone else does the actual work.

Also, the lack of grain is actually the thing everyone should’ve done with the Star Wars prequels as they were shot digitally (at least for AOTC and ROTS, TPM should’ve had the grain).

I’m not sure why everyone wants to add a 35mm grain plate in AOTC and ROTS even if they were shot digitally and adding grain would make the quality worse IMO.

Avatar_Emil_Borg said:

Well, at least that would explain why 1-6 has 6.1 surround on Blu-ray.

No, they were discrete 6.1.

RU.08 said:

Your ideas are all fine, I’m just letting you know I think they recolored individual stuff - and the coloring is so different to the 35mm that you might loose quite a bit of quality regrading.

Okay… But at least the overall quality will still be better.

RU.08 said:

Swift S. Lawliet said:

Hey, if Harmy regraded the Star Wars Original Trilogy, someone can do this.

I think this would be a piece of cake compared to even one Star Wars movie.

Well the issue is that these come from modified CAPS files. If they recolor something digitally you will never get it back. From what I’ve seen of the CAPS films I am pretty certain that in particular scenes they have recolored individual items (characters, objects, backgrounds, etc).

If they didn’t do that then yes you can theoretically regrade the BD, but I am pretty sure there are parts that cannot be regraded. Nevertheless once we have the scan you’ll know exactly how it looks and can do whatever you would like. You can get a copy of the 4K files for the price of a hard drive if you want.

Okay… Anyways, I can’t actually do a restoration.

My PC is very weak and my hard drive is almost full.

I only gave some ideas.

Sorry.

RU.08 said:

Swift S. Lawliet said:

Anyways, my idea for sources for a Despecialized Edition (which I can’t actually do since my laptop is very weak) is:

1. 2010 Diamond Edition Blu-ray
2. 35mm scan
3. 2002 Special Edition HDTV recording
4. LaserDisc of theatrical edition

Right yes, whatever people want to do with it is fine. Personally, I am quite sure the scan will look very good as it is. I’m sending it to the same scanner that scanned THX-1138 for poita who is a professional, and I’ve been told I will not get better results anywhere else. I may have to pay to get the film professionally cleaned (as poita is currently doing for ESB).

I know I’ve said this many times, but there is no home video release of this movie that looks the way the theatrical prints do. Given the extent of recoloring on the BD, I am skeptical that it can be regraded at all!

Hey, if Harmy regraded the Star Wars Original Trilogy, someone can do this.

I think this would be a piece of cake compared to even one Star Wars movie.

^…^ said:

AFAIK, ADigitalMan released the three prequel episodes; I’ll use them as main guidelines to know where to insert deleted scenes; the others in the mysterious russian site could always serve for the same purpose.

UPDATE

• Found a new Rogue One korean trailer; I think it’s * possible * to use one of its brief shot, to replace a similar, unfinished shot of the EP6 deleted scene found on BD, “Jerjerrod’s Conflict”, the final one with the empty screen.
• Found further EP7 shots on trailers, teasers, TV spots, not found in the final movie, or different takes etc. - don’t know how much footage will be proved effectively cut/different, in total, but an educated guess could be around one minute, if not more, taken in account there are around two dozens of them, and each shot is few seconds long.
• Thinking to use “non canon” footage found on some TV spots - quality is very good, and scenes are plausible… got just to find out where to place them! With just three spots, total time is around one minute and half!

An audio editor is still needed!

By the way, that mysterious Russian site is actually RuTracker.

I just didn’t mention it in fear of banishment, but since other users always mention it’s name nowadays, I think it’s same.

RU.08 said:

Swift S. Lawliet said:

I think the 2010 Blu-ray can potentially be the best version of Beauty and the Beast since it came straight from the CAPS files if we fix it.

Well, once I’ve had BATB scanned I should be able to release a 1080p version of it fairly easily. The scan will be available for use to de-specialize the Bluray if anyone wants to do it that way of course.

And if we undo the alterations for the 2002 Special Edition DVD/IMAX and the 2010 Diamond Edition Blu-ray/3D, color correct it to match the LaserDisc or this 35mm print and add in all the alternate mixes.

The LD is not all that accurate either. In particular, the film is quite a bit darker than the LD.

It might be the best version of Beauty and the Beast we can get unless Disney just releases the unaltered version instead of repackaging the Diamond Edition over and over again.

Have you seen the release of Lady and the Tramp on MySpleen? I have personally seen that film on 35mm not that long ago, and I can tell you that is pretty much exactly how it looked. BATB is similar, but since it’s CAPS the coloring is much more stable than hand-done coloring on the older Disney films.

I think the title should be Beauty and the Beast: Despecialized Edition …
Just tell me if you’re interested for doing this kind of project and I can make own thread

I won’t be doing a de-specialized, no. Once I have BATB scanned I have two more Disney films to get scanned and organised. I’ve seen another Disney animation scan (well part of it) that is currently being done by another member, I’m not sure I can tell you anything more about it, and from what I have seen there would be very little benefit in terms of quality in using it to “de-specialize” the BD. Also that is true for Lady and the Tramp.

Well, you don’t have to do the Despecialized Edition, someone else could, anyways.

Anyways, my idea for sources for a Despecialized Edition (which I can’t actually do since my laptop is very weak) is:

1. 2010 Diamond Edition Blu-ray
2. 35mm scan
3. 2002 Special Edition HDTV recording
4. LaserDisc of theatrical edition

Audio from the LaserDisc, 2002 Special Edition HDTV and 2010 Diamond Edition Blu-ray.

Video is the 2010 Diamond Edition Blu-ray color corrected based on the 35mm scan and Despecialized with combinations of said 35mm scan, 2002 Special Edition and theatrical LaserDisc. Titles from the 2010 Diamond Edition Blu-ray “Theatrical” Edition which are very accurate to the original release. Logo probably from the Blu-ray of The Hunchback of Notre Dame.

P.S: For the audio, I also have Mandarin and Cantonese dubbed versions from a bootleg based on the Diamond Edition which I bought in Hong Kong, they are official and the Beast is voiced by Jackie Chan.

I knew that the Prequel Trilogy was originally shown in DTS-ES 6.1, even The Phantom Menace.

Now, what I found was that the DTS Cinema discs are oddly only in 5.1.

I think this may be a minor screw-up since I think the .wav filer are actually supposed to be encoded into DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 ES Matrix which can be matrixed to 6.1.

The official Blu-rays are in discrete 6.1. And there are many Blu-rays with discrete DTS-HD Master Audio 6.1 like Harry Potter 1 and 2 Ultimate Edition, The Lord of the Rings Extended Edition Trilogy and the Japanese Blu-ray of Spirited Away.

I don’t know which Blu-rays are only DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 ES Matrix (which can be matrixed to 6.1) but I do know that the Japanese Blu-ray of Howl’s Moving Castle had this, which was a contrast to the other Ghibli 6.1 Blu-rays (Spirited Away, Tales from Earthsea, Ponyo on the Cliff by the Sea) which were all discrete 6.1.

And if we decode the matrixed channel to a PCM file. Maybe we can recreate the DTS Cinema audio in discrete 6.1.

I know the only Star Wars movies in 6.1 are the prequels but we might as well do it for the Special Edition of the Original Trilogy as well.

I can’t actually do this since the conversion might be too much for my weak laptop and I don’t know where to get the files themselves, even in the Spleen, they are very rare.

If someone is going to do this and follow my idea. Then be my guest.

I found unofficial Extended Editions of all seven Star Wars movies on a certain popular Russian torrent site which I will not name in risk of banishment.

Unfortunately, the quality isn’t that good and the audio is only in Russian for some films like Episode V and VI.

Would still be interesting, though.

Dat_SW_Guy said:

AdBlock will do to save your woes of Star Wars Record-Hunting.

Actually tried it to get a request and it has helped me greatly.

But it’s still somewhat hard to navigate.

I think the 2010 Blu-ray can potentially be the best version of Beauty and the Beast since it came straight from the CAPS files if we fix it.

And Disney just misleadingly called it a digital restoration rather than what it actually is: an altered digital-to-digital transfer.

And if we undo the alterations for the 2002 Special Edition DVD/IMAX and the 2010 Diamond Edition Blu-ray/3D, color correct it to match the LaserDisc or this 35mm print and add in all the alternate mixes. It might be the best version of Beauty and the Beast we can get unless Disney just releases the unaltered version instead of repackaging the Diamond Edition over and over again.

I think the title should be Beauty and the Beast: Despecialized Edition (sorry, I really had to take the name from you, Harmy, and the first altered version of Beauty and the Beast was also called a Special Edition).

Just tell me if you’re interested for doing this kind of project and I can make own thread, unfortunately. I actually can’t do it since my laptop is too weak for editing SD video, let alone HD.

Maybe, I can still handle the distribution, if the Spleen will allow this restoration.

But if not, then someone else will probably do the distribution.

P.S: It would be really awesome if Harmy did the restoration here, and it would bring more justification to the use of the title Beauty and the Beast: Despecialized Edition.

CatBus said:

Regarding software, for rendering the graphical ones, I’ve gone through many pieces of software and decided I’m just too particular and wrote my own. It’s a Python script included in the project files (which in turn relies on ImageMagick, Pango, and some font files). It’s pretty customized to this project’s needs and I don’t know how well it would work for other projects.

Regarding Tagalog, just capture what you can and wait for the missing parts to get filled in later. I can wait a long time.

I can’t actually record it since I am always traveling and I am not in the Philippines as of now.

But maybe I can tune in to unauthorized TV live streams and record it with something like Fraps.

I am a member of a Filipino private tracker (I am a pure American but I speak Filipino, have lots of Filipino friends and often watch Filipino movies and TV shows because of how cheesy they are) and they sometimes release Filipino-dubbed versions of non-Filipino movies (usually Asian movies but they also released some American movies.

Maybe I can request Star Wars there but unfortunately, said site is very hard to navigate because you have constant pop-ups everywhere, everytime and sometimes, clicking a link will just redirect you to the same page you were when you clicked it.

They are going to show Revenge of the Sith dubbed this Saturday in TV5 when I just checked the schedule.

They will most likely show Star Wars next Saturday.

Attack of the Clones was shown last Saturday and if they are following the episode order, maybe it is.

But if they are showing it in the release date order, better luck next time.

Also, some unrealistic wishes: I really hope they show the 1997 Special Edition (let’s face it, OUT will never be broadcast ever again whether we like it or not) for at least The Empire Strikes Back so it will be easier for us to “Despecialize” the Emperor scene.

zxthehedgehog said:

Getting there. My priority is A Charlie Brown Christmas and finishing that before this upcoming holiday.

The new version will have a full CC to attempt to improve the rather muted colors. I plan on posting some images soon, but it’s corrected using the VHS as a reference.

Great job with this, zxthehedgehog! Congrats.

The only gripe I had is that the transitions aren’t as smooth as I had gotten used to with Harmy’s Despecialized Editions of the Star Wars Trilogy. But since this is a work-in-progress, I guess you still have some kinks to clean but it still looks really great, nonetheless.

And anyways, about ACBC… can we talk about it in my Peanuts Preservation thread?

P.S: I am currently contemplating on making another thread on an idea for making a full-on restoration of the entire series run of Clarissa Explains It All (which is where my profile pic came from, I originally planned to use a Han Solo profile pic but someone already had that and I just used my Spleen profile pic who just happens to be Clarissa Darling because the Spleen also loves '90s Nickelodeon and I had a Clarissa picture on my PC for some reason).

I would explain all [pun intended] the problems of the many widely known sources available depending on whether you people here think it’s a good idea.

How’s the project now?

CatBus said:

PM sent.

Regarding other dubs, the official Hong Kong DVDs and Blu-rays definitely don’t have a Cantonese dub (we have them; they don’t), I think Blu-ray.com just has some bad data on the Blu. There may very well be a Cantonese dub for television (lots of languages have these, not just Tagalog), and knowing how common bootlegs are over there, there may be a very official-looking DVD with the Cantonese dub that you can buy in Hong Kong, just not the kind you can buy in regular stores in the US. If you find that or the Tagalog dub, I’d love to hear them. I don’t care much if they’re well-done, they’re for accessibility–some of our other dubs are… interesting… too. If there’s one person out there who doesn’t know English very well, but knows Tagalog, that’s enough reason to have it.

Yeah, and TFA has a Korean dub, which is very unusual unless it’s an animated movie.

And I know that television-only dubs exist. I saw Anastasia in Vietnamese when I was having a vacation in Vietnam.

Which I initially found weird since the R3 DVD or Blu-ray of Anastasia never had a Vietnamese dub, not even in Vietnam itself.

Good news regarding the Tagalog dub of the Star Wars Saga: According to my friends in the Philippines, a Star Wars movie just aired last Saturday night in the Philippines (which means last Saturday morning if you’re in America like me) in TV5, who officially has the rights to release the Star Wars movies on free Philippine TV.

Bad news: It’s Attack of the Clones. But they also dubbed the first six films in Tagalog.

Worse news: I don’t think anyone recorded it, especially because most Filipinos prefer the movies in the original English version instead of being dubbed in Tagalog because most Filipinos speak English.

Not to mention the low reputation of Tagalog dubs in the Philippines where the Tagalog dubs are allegedly even more ridiculously awful than English dubs of old wuxia movies.

And the Tagalog dubs are TV-only, they don’t exist on the DVD or Blu-ray versions and weren’t shown in theaters.

Also, I think official Cantonese-dubbed versions exist in Hong Kong, apparently in the Hong Kong and Taiwan Blu-rays, only Revenge of the Sith and The Force Awakens have an official Mandarin version but official Cantonese versions exist for all of the films.

And that The Force Awakens is the only Star Wars movie with a Korean dub (usually, only kids’ movies and animation get Korean-dubbed versions).

zxthehedgehog said:

Need to redo the frame rate conversion on the LMW footage. Will post preview tomorrow.

Okay. I’m already waiting for it.

LordStarkiller said:

I would hope they would someday. Course in the case of Episode IV they’ll have to work out a deal with Fox as while Disney owns the prints, Fox has perpetual distribution rights.

I think if Disney will release the OUT in or after 2020. They will only release The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi will be released separately by Disney even if they will make a box set with Star Wars which will be released under license from 20th Century Fox.

Maybe Fox will do a standalone of Star Wars to go along the Disney releases.

This is almost the same case with The Incredible Hulk (released by Universal) in the Marvel Cinematic Universe: Phase One - Avengers Assembled box set, even if the Paramount movies were re-released by Disney thanks to being registered under Marvel rather than Paramount.

The Incredible Hulk is still released individually by Universal to this day thanks to being under Universal in perpetuity.

Again, Disney still included The Incredible Hulk in the MCU Phase One box set under license from Universal.

This also happened with Lupin III: The Castle of Cagliostro (released by Eastern Star Media in North America) in The Collected Works of Hayao Miyazaki box set, all the other Hayao Miyazaki movies are released by Disney in North America.

But the North American distribution rights of Lupin III: The Castle of Cagliostro are with Eastern Star Media.

Disney included Lupin III: The Castle of Cagliostro in the Hayao Miyazaki box set under license from Eastern Star Media.

Eastern Star Media also released Lupin III: The Castle of Cagliostro individually because they have the North American distribution rights.

If it happened with Hulk and Lupin III, it will probably also happen with Star Wars.

zxthehedgehog said:

Sometime after 9:30 PM EST. I’m working now.

PM it to me via MEGA when it’s done.

And do both Blu-ray compliant MKV and DVD ISO versions, please.

zxthehedgehog said:

Sometime after 9:30 PM EST. I’m working now.

Okay.

zxthehedgehog said:

ETA this Friday, as long as no unexpected complications occur. My life’s been kind of crazy lately, so I haven’t been able to work on projects as much as I’d like to.

I’ll post the intro on Vimeo tonight, to get some feedback.

Okay, in which timeslot?

I am currently in Hong Kong so night in America will be day in Hong Kong and vice versa.

Any news so far for v0.5?

I actually think it should be called v1.0.

And the newer version with the stereo and 5.1 versions should be called v2.0.

The DualDisc version of the soundtrack has a 24/96 remaster in 5.1. But only in lossy DTS 24/96.

^…^ said:
 046) … Hercules (1997) 15067 AS -> This Disney films all get 7.1 remixes nowadays, so the laserdisc DTS soundtrack is the original.
 048) … Hunchback of Notre Dame, The (1996) 12354 AS -> This Disney films all get 7.1 remixes nowadays, so the laserdisc DTS soundtrack is the original.
 075) … Pocahontas (1995) 12158 AS -> This Disney films all get 7.1 remixes nowadays, so the laserdisc DTS soundtrack is the original.

The Blu-rays are actually 5.1. Not sure if they are remixed, though.

And only the Platinum/Diamond/Signature Editions get 7.1 remixes, save for a few exceptions.