Thanks for the screen shots. Pleased to see the battle-droid’s head made it into the new edit. Images look great-very crisp and sharp.
Wrong thread.
I do t think there is, but perhaps a mod can merge these threads.
Your project looks fresh, by the way. 😃Ha, thanks! I appreciate it. It’s more of a conceptual idea, not quite in line with your edits which I’ve always been a fan of!
Very excited to view your vision for this movie later today. Thank you for time and effort that went into this project.
This can’t be why he was banned, can it be?
He was banned because he was constantly spamming the boards with PM requests and multiple posts that could have been contained in one single post.
He literally just answered your question.
When I said Disney, I was referring to Lucasfilm specifically. Guess I fell victim to that misconception too. 😉
The people behind the live action remakes are different than the people behind Lucasfilm. One of the most common misconceptions from Disney Star Wars haters is the idea that Disney is a monolithic entertainment organization where every movie is produced by the same 5 people. In reality, Lucasfilm and Marvel are pretty separate from mainstream Disney.
Why are Star Wars fans always so cynical? I don’t think Disney will make a 4th trilogy, they wouldn’t be that lazy.
Actually the Luke of TLJ is the one who has finally internalized the lessons of TESB. Rey says herself that Luke is purposefully ignoring his success in ROTJ (which repudiated Yoda and Obi-wan), but he has a reason for doing so - saving Anakin did not destroy the Death Star in the short term, nor the Empire in the long term. On the contrary, Luke sees his victory there and elsewhere as having a direct line to his hubris in training Ben.
And anyway, Luke in ROTJ is very pointedly not able to avoid the emotions affiliated with the dark side. He brings his weapon with him when he goes to see Vader. He gives in to his fear, anger, and hatred. It is only when he is on the verge of killing his father does his rationality come in, and he realizes what he has done - it is an exact mirror of the flashback in TLJ. Of course the argument then is that “he should have known better.” Well fine if you feel that way. But in my mind, the dark side is a constant temptation, and the factors leading to that moment in Ben’s hut were such that Luke was, in his arrogance, unaware of what he was getting into (it was a far more subversive challenge than the explicit manipulation of the Emperor on the Death Star). This arrogance is of course a mirror to the arrogance of the Jedi in the PT not realizing the fear and the anger they were giving into, which caused their downfall. Luke, seeing the cycle of things he’s found himself perpetuating, decides to end the Jedi for good. I don’t see any regression at all.
To me this presents a very narrow point of view, and just like much of Luke’s character development seems to be ignored, reducing him down to his mistakes at some moment in the past, so too the Jedi are reduced to their mistakes at the darkest time in their history. Like Luke there is much more to the Jedi than their mistakes at a specific moment in time. The Jedi guarded the peace in the galaxy for over a thousand generations. That to me is clear proof, that the Jedi code works, and that Luke in TLJ was turned into a fool, not being able to look beyond the flaws of a couple of individual Jedi, who by no means seem to be representative of the Jedi over their millenia long history.
I mean, yeah, Luke is looking at it the wrong way, and he’s ultimately proven to be wrong. But Luke is no fool. All we know about the Jedi is that they were the guardians of peace for a thousands generations, but even that doesn’t mean there were a thousand generations of peace. They were exerting their will of the Force over the galaxy. Luke only cites the rise of Darth Sidious and the creation of Vader (because these are things we can connect to as we’ve seen those films), but the whole point of him being on the island is to study the long history of the Jedi, and this is the conclusion he came to, that the Jedi must end. You can nitpick that they didn’t give you sufficient explanation, but in my opinion the implication is clear, that there are more flaws to the order than just the ones we’ve seen in the films.
Yet, Luke then changes his mind.
He doesn’t change his mind about the Jedi, he changes his mind about helping the Resistance. This is shown very well in the Yoda scene. Yoda tells Luke that the teachings of the Jedi were flawed, and tells Luke to pass on everything he learned, both success and failure. Luke still believes that the old Jedi were flawed, but he decides to create a new order of Jedi, learning from the failures of the old.
I didn’t hear anything about a new order of Jedi. All I saw was Yoda chastising Luke for not living up to his potential as a Jedi.
You obviously weren’t paying attention during that scene. Yoda specifically says:
“Heeded my words not, did you. Pass on what you have learned. Strength, mastery, but weakness, folly, failure also. Yes, failure most of all. The greatest teacher, failure is. Luke, we are what they grow beyond. That is the true burden of all masters.”
It was Luke who chose to only see the Jedi through the lens of his own failure, and thus couldn’t see the bigger picture.
Yes, but Yoda’s speech allowed Luke to see the bigger picture. Once again, the quote above clearly contradicts the point you’re trying to make.
No it doesn’t. There is nothing in Yoda’s lesson to Luke, that indicates he’s presenting Luke with some new insight, that did not exist when the Jedi were in their prime.
I never said anything like that. Yoda isn’t giving Luke some revolutionary insight, he’s telling Luke what he already knows deep down.
In fact Yoda saying “heeded my words not”, suggests the opposite of what you are suggesting. What Yoda is telling Luke is, that he did not do as he was taught.
Yes, that’s exactly what Yoda said. But the scene isn’t just about scolding Luke for his mistakes, it’s about teaching Luke to learn from his mistakes.
He should not only pass on his successes, but also allow others to learn from his failures, a lesson he probably gave to many Jedi in the past.
That’s the problem though. He didn’t give that lesson to Jedi in the past, which resulted in their downfall.
Actually the Luke of TLJ is the one who has finally internalized the lessons of TESB. Rey says herself that Luke is purposefully ignoring his success in ROTJ (which repudiated Yoda and Obi-wan), but he has a reason for doing so - saving Anakin did not destroy the Death Star in the short term, nor the Empire in the long term. On the contrary, Luke sees his victory there and elsewhere as having a direct line to his hubris in training Ben.
And anyway, Luke in ROTJ is very pointedly not able to avoid the emotions affiliated with the dark side. He brings his weapon with him when he goes to see Vader. He gives in to his fear, anger, and hatred. It is only when he is on the verge of killing his father does his rationality come in, and he realizes what he has done - it is an exact mirror of the flashback in TLJ. Of course the argument then is that “he should have known better.” Well fine if you feel that way. But in my mind, the dark side is a constant temptation, and the factors leading to that moment in Ben’s hut were such that Luke was, in his arrogance, unaware of what he was getting into (it was a far more subversive challenge than the explicit manipulation of the Emperor on the Death Star). This arrogance is of course a mirror to the arrogance of the Jedi in the PT not realizing the fear and the anger they were giving into, which caused their downfall. Luke, seeing the cycle of things he’s found himself perpetuating, decides to end the Jedi for good. I don’t see any regression at all.
To me this presents a very narrow point of view, and just like much of Luke’s character development seems to be ignored, reducing him down to his mistakes at some moment in the past, so too the Jedi are reduced to their mistakes at the darkest time in their history. Like Luke there is much more to the Jedi than their mistakes at a specific moment in time. The Jedi guarded the peace in the galaxy for over a thousand generations. That to me is clear proof, that the Jedi code works, and that Luke in TLJ was turned into a fool, not being able to look beyond the flaws of a couple of individual Jedi, who by no means seem to be representative of the Jedi over their millenia long history.
I mean, yeah, Luke is looking at it the wrong way, and he’s ultimately proven to be wrong. But Luke is no fool. All we know about the Jedi is that they were the guardians of peace for a thousands generations, but even that doesn’t mean there were a thousand generations of peace. They were exerting their will of the Force over the galaxy. Luke only cites the rise of Darth Sidious and the creation of Vader (because these are things we can connect to as we’ve seen those films), but the whole point of him being on the island is to study the long history of the Jedi, and this is the conclusion he came to, that the Jedi must end. You can nitpick that they didn’t give you sufficient explanation, but in my opinion the implication is clear, that there are more flaws to the order than just the ones we’ve seen in the films.
Yet, Luke then changes his mind.
He doesn’t change his mind about the Jedi, he changes his mind about helping the Resistance. This is shown very well in the Yoda scene. Yoda tells Luke that the teachings of the Jedi were flawed, and tells Luke to pass on everything he learned, both success and failure. Luke still believes that the old Jedi were flawed, but he decides to create a new order of Jedi, learning from the failures of the old.
I didn’t hear anything about a new order of Jedi. All I saw was Yoda chastising Luke for not living up to his potential as a Jedi.
You obviously weren’t paying attention during that scene. Yoda specifically says:
“Heeded my words not, did you. Pass on what you have learned. Strength, mastery, but weakness, folly, failure also. Yes, failure most of all. The greatest teacher, failure is. Luke, we are what they grow beyond. That is the true burden of all masters.”
It was Luke who chose to only see the Jedi through the lens of his own failure, and thus couldn’t see the bigger picture.
Yes, but Yoda’s speech allowed Luke to see the bigger picture. Once again, the quote above clearly contradicts the point you’re trying to make.
Actually the Luke of TLJ is the one who has finally internalized the lessons of TESB. Rey says herself that Luke is purposefully ignoring his success in ROTJ (which repudiated Yoda and Obi-wan), but he has a reason for doing so - saving Anakin did not destroy the Death Star in the short term, nor the Empire in the long term. On the contrary, Luke sees his victory there and elsewhere as having a direct line to his hubris in training Ben.
And anyway, Luke in ROTJ is very pointedly not able to avoid the emotions affiliated with the dark side. He brings his weapon with him when he goes to see Vader. He gives in to his fear, anger, and hatred. It is only when he is on the verge of killing his father does his rationality come in, and he realizes what he has done - it is an exact mirror of the flashback in TLJ. Of course the argument then is that “he should have known better.” Well fine if you feel that way. But in my mind, the dark side is a constant temptation, and the factors leading to that moment in Ben’s hut were such that Luke was, in his arrogance, unaware of what he was getting into (it was a far more subversive challenge than the explicit manipulation of the Emperor on the Death Star). This arrogance is of course a mirror to the arrogance of the Jedi in the PT not realizing the fear and the anger they were giving into, which caused their downfall. Luke, seeing the cycle of things he’s found himself perpetuating, decides to end the Jedi for good. I don’t see any regression at all.
To me this presents a very narrow point of view, and just like much of Luke’s character development seems to be ignored, reducing him down to his mistakes at some moment in the past, so too the Jedi are reduced to their mistakes at the darkest time in their history. Like Luke there is much more to the Jedi than their mistakes at a specific moment in time. The Jedi guarded the peace in the galaxy for over a thousand generations. That to me is clear proof, that the Jedi code works, and that Luke in TLJ was turned into a fool, not being able to look beyond the flaws of a couple of individual Jedi, who by no means seem to be representative of the Jedi over their millenia long history.
I mean, yeah, Luke is looking at it the wrong way, and he’s ultimately proven to be wrong. But Luke is no fool. All we know about the Jedi is that they were the guardians of peace for a thousands generations, but even that doesn’t mean there were a thousand generations of peace. They were exerting their will of the Force over the galaxy. Luke only cites the rise of Darth Sidious and the creation of Vader (because these are things we can connect to as we’ve seen those films), but the whole point of him being on the island is to study the long history of the Jedi, and this is the conclusion he came to, that the Jedi must end. You can nitpick that they didn’t give you sufficient explanation, but in my opinion the implication is clear, that there are more flaws to the order than just the ones we’ve seen in the films.
But why allude to some unknown flaws, deflating the Jedi as a whole, only to then go back to business as usual? That seems pretty pointless, to just use it as a plot device to keep Luke in one place up till, and for the duration of the story, have him repeating how he has good reasons for wanting the Jedi to end, only to have him recant, when it’s convenient for the writer of the story. That’s my issue with this kind of storytelling. There appears to be more to the story, but we are never shown. I just read a comic about Kylo Ren and Snoke, and there’s more development of both characters in those 20 pages then there ever was in the movies. Such character development would go a long way in providing some much needed emotional resonance to Kylo’s betrayal in TLJ.
What do you mean, “unknown flaws?” The flaws of the Jedi order were clearly shown in both the prequels and the OT. They considered emotion to be a weakness, they focused more on “maintaining balance” than actually helping the galaxy, and their blindness to the world around them allowed Palpatine to take over. And Luke didn’t just magically change his mind because the writer felt like it, the advice of his old master convinced him to put the flaws of the old order behind him and focus on creating a new order. I don’t know where you’re coming from with the “no character development” thing.
Actually the Luke of TLJ is the one who has finally internalized the lessons of TESB. Rey says herself that Luke is purposefully ignoring his success in ROTJ (which repudiated Yoda and Obi-wan), but he has a reason for doing so - saving Anakin did not destroy the Death Star in the short term, nor the Empire in the long term. On the contrary, Luke sees his victory there and elsewhere as having a direct line to his hubris in training Ben.
And anyway, Luke in ROTJ is very pointedly not able to avoid the emotions affiliated with the dark side. He brings his weapon with him when he goes to see Vader. He gives in to his fear, anger, and hatred. It is only when he is on the verge of killing his father does his rationality come in, and he realizes what he has done - it is an exact mirror of the flashback in TLJ. Of course the argument then is that “he should have known better.” Well fine if you feel that way. But in my mind, the dark side is a constant temptation, and the factors leading to that moment in Ben’s hut were such that Luke was, in his arrogance, unaware of what he was getting into (it was a far more subversive challenge than the explicit manipulation of the Emperor on the Death Star). This arrogance is of course a mirror to the arrogance of the Jedi in the PT not realizing the fear and the anger they were giving into, which caused their downfall. Luke, seeing the cycle of things he’s found himself perpetuating, decides to end the Jedi for good. I don’t see any regression at all.
To me this presents a very narrow point of view, and just like much of Luke’s character development seems to be ignored, reducing him down to his mistakes at some moment in the past, so too the Jedi are reduced to their mistakes at the darkest time in their history. Like Luke there is much more to the Jedi than their mistakes at a specific moment in time. The Jedi guarded the peace in the galaxy for over a thousand generations. That to me is clear proof, that the Jedi code works, and that Luke in TLJ was turned into a fool, not being able to look beyond the flaws of a couple of individual Jedi, who by no means seem to be representative of the Jedi over their millenia long history.
I mean, yeah, Luke is looking at it the wrong way, and he’s ultimately proven to be wrong. But Luke is no fool. All we know about the Jedi is that they were the guardians of peace for a thousands generations, but even that doesn’t mean there were a thousand generations of peace. They were exerting their will of the Force over the galaxy. Luke only cites the rise of Darth Sidious and the creation of Vader (because these are things we can connect to as we’ve seen those films), but the whole point of him being on the island is to study the long history of the Jedi, and this is the conclusion he came to, that the Jedi must end. You can nitpick that they didn’t give you sufficient explanation, but in my opinion the implication is clear, that there are more flaws to the order than just the ones we’ve seen in the films.
Yet, Luke then changes his mind.
He doesn’t change his mind about the Jedi, he changes his mind about helping the Resistance. This is shown very well in the Yoda scene. Yoda tells Luke that the teachings of the Jedi were flawed, and tells Luke to pass on everything he learned, both success and failure. Luke still believes that the old Jedi were flawed, but he decides to create a new order of Jedi, learning from the failures of the old.
Yes, TLJ is postmodern. But does that mean it’s bad? I actually felt like the postmodern attitude of TLJ was a nice change of pace, especially after the boring corporate nostalgia bait that was TFA.
I don’t know why you like Mauler so much. Most of his videos are multiple-hour rants about surface-level nitpicks and complaints that don’t even make sense. He’s one of my least favorite film analysis Youtubers.
If anyone wants to read the full plot leak, here it is:
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/cxmfsv/the_basic_plot_of_episode_ix_the_rise_of/
Each Bond film is the exact same movie, but the series has established that formula pretty well. Schlocky action, cheesy one-liners and a general feeling that it should not be taken seriously. Audiences go in knowing and expecting that.
You could say the same thing about the MCU.
Using a 5-star scale for rankings is an interesting idea. Here’s my personal ranking:
Five stars
Four stars
Three stars
Two stars
One star
That crawl is way too wordy. Here’s my idea:
It is a time of despair.
Luke Skywalker, the legendary
Jedi Master, has vanished.
In his absence, the sinister
First Order has risen, wielding
a deadly weapon capable of
destroying any star system
in the galaxy.
Held hostage by this dreaded
threat, the New Republic
organizes a covert Resistance
to find Skywalker and destroy
the First Order…
What do you think about this?
http://www.framecompare.com/image-compare/screenshotcomparison/DLGZWNNX
Looks pretty good.
What is it that you don’t like?
It’s really oversaturated. You might want to turn the saturation down a little bit.
Unfortunately, no. It’s really unfinished, and would look jarring next to the theatrical footage.
I repeat, I’m ending this conversation. Now please shut up.
You don’t seem to be remembering AotC right.
Really? How about you describe the romance in AOTC. I’ll wait.
Refute my Finn points then we’ll talk.
Okay.
Finn’s character development in TFA is mostly centered on his unwillingness to fight. He starts out as a First Order janitor: he’s technically part of the First Order, but he isn’t really committed to their cause. The movie starts with Finn’s first battle, where he experiences the horrors of war for the first time. One of his stormtrooper friends dies, and he is ordered to slaughter hundreds of innocent civilians. Finn decides that he doesn’t want to fight for the First Order, and frees Poe so that he can help Finn escape. Poe wants to go back to Jakku to help the Resistance, but Finn wants to get away from the war. After they crash land on Jakku, Finn meets Rey and BB-8, and Finn agrees to help return BB-8 to the Resistance, but he still doesn’t want to fight. After they meet Han and travel to Maz’s castle, Maz argues with Finn. Maz urges Finn to fight against the Dark Side, but Finn says that fighting the First Order is futile, and he decides to leave. The only reason he doesn’t leave is because he wants to find Rey. Then, the First Order attacks, leaving Finn no choice but to fight. After the battle, Rey gets captured, and all the other characters, including Finn, go to the Resistance base. Finn creates a plan to disable the shields on Starkiller Base, but secretly, he just wants to help Rey. After he disables the shields and finds Rey, Han decides to help the Resistance blow up the base, leaving Finn no choice but to fight once again. Kylo kills Han, and Finn and Rey encounter Kylo in the woods. Kylo slices Finn’s back, leaving him unconscious for the rest of the movie.
By the end of the movie, Finn has left the First Order, but he still hasn’t joined the Resistance. This is made clear many times in the movie. His motivations are obvious and his arc is clear.
Your turn. Describe the romance in AOTC. I’ll wait.
You didn’t engage with my points at all you just typed up an on paper summary.
I did engage with your points, though: The “on paper summary” proves that Finn’s character arc is consistent and clear. But since it’s obvious that you can’t be reasoned with, I’m ending this conversation.
You don’t seem to be remembering AotC right.
Really? How about you describe the romance in AOTC. I’ll wait.
Refute my Finn points then we’ll talk.
Okay.
Finn’s character development in TFA is mostly centered on his unwillingness to fight. He starts out as a First Order janitor: he’s technically part of the First Order, but he isn’t really committed to their cause. The movie starts with Finn’s first battle, where he experiences the horrors of war for the first time. One of his stormtrooper friends dies, and he is ordered to slaughter hundreds of innocent civilians. Finn decides that he doesn’t want to fight for the First Order, and frees Poe so that he can help Finn escape. Poe wants to go back to Jakku to help the Resistance, but Finn wants to get away from the war. After they crash land on Jakku, Finn meets Rey and BB-8, and Finn agrees to help return BB-8 to the Resistance, but he still doesn’t want to fight. After they meet Han and travel to Maz’s castle, Maz argues with Finn. Maz urges Finn to fight against the Dark Side, but Finn says that fighting the First Order is futile, and he decides to leave. The only reason he doesn’t leave is because he wants to find Rey. Then, the First Order attacks, leaving Finn no choice but to fight. After the battle, Rey gets captured, and all the other characters, including Finn, go to the Resistance base. Finn creates a plan to disable the shields on Starkiller Base, but secretly, he just wants to help Rey. After he disables the shields and finds Rey, Han decides to help the Resistance blow up the base, leaving Finn no choice but to fight once again. Kylo kills Han, and Finn and Rey encounter Kylo in the woods. Kylo slices Finn’s back, leaving him unconscious for the rest of the movie.
By the end of the movie, Finn has left the First Order, but he still hasn’t joined the Resistance. This is made clear many times in the movie. His motivations are obvious and his arc is clear.
Your turn. Describe the romance in AOTC. I’ll wait.
You don’t seem to be remembering AotC right.
Really? How about you describe the romance in AOTC. I’ll wait.
“Objective”???
Yes, objective.
Anakin in AOTC is one of the worst written characters in film history. Nothing about his character or his romance with Padme is consistent or logical. At first, he seems like a complete creep. He says that Padme has “grown more beautiful,” stares at her longingly in every scene, and talks about how she appears in his wet dreams. Then, for some reason, Anakin begins to act less and less creepy. In the picnic scene, it seems like Anakin and Padme actually like each other, for no explained reason. Then, in the sunset scene, Anakin starts to act creepy again, and Padme says that she doesn’t like Anakin, completely contradicting the previous scene. After Anakin slaughters the Sand People, he starts ranting about it to Padme, and Padme is shocked. The next time the romance is mentioned is in the arena scene, where Padme, out of nowhere, says that she actually loves Anakin, contradicting almost every scene they had together. They get married at the end, but it doesn’t feel earned, because they only liked each other for 2 scenes.
It’s objectively wrong to say that AOTC had anything even resembling consistent plotting. TFA isn’t the best Star Wars movie, but the characters have consistent traits and clear arcs.
The closest to bad would be Episode 2, but it’s still far less narratively incoherent than Kasdan’s Episode 7.
I have to disagree with that. Episode 7 is derivative and forced, but it has a much more coherent narrative than the mess that is Episode 2.