StarkillerAG

Mocata said:

OK weird thing I happened to think about today for real… but at the end of the movie just as the music swells and the iris effect closes to credits there’s this weird laugh? Is that like an Ewok? Both this and R2 beeping are louder than the score just for a second.

https://youtu.be/TvXm5HuR72k?t=148

It’s Palpatine. His return was part of George’s plan all along! /s

But you shouldn’t just ignore world-building, plot, and character arcs in service of themes. That was one of TLJ’s major failings in my opinion. Themes were put above all else, even when it resulted in an uninteresting premise, nonsensical plot points, and confusing character arcs. I understand that themes are an important part of cinema, but they aren’t the only important part of cinema, and I feel like that’s something Rian misunderstands with a lot of his movies.

(I’m responding to NFBisms)

I mean, it’s kind of obvious…

idir_hh said:

I find that taking out Rey palpatine leaves little to no personal stakes/conflict between the main protagonist and main antagonist since there is no personal connection.

But does there need to be a personal connection in order to have stakes and conflict? Palpatine wants to destroy the entire galaxy. That should be enough of a reason for Rey wanting to confront Palpatine, instead of a shameless ripoff of Empire’s plot twist.

NeverarGreat said:

I like the creativity of this idea, but if the base were home to a large civilian population, it would cast the Resistance in a pretty terrible light to nuke the whole thing.

But what if they don’t nuke the whole thing? I actually think it would be a good idea to keep Starkiller Base as a threat throughout the entire trilogy, explaining why the remnants of the New Republic don’t rise up against the First Order.

idir_hh said:

Ian McDiarmid discusses Palpatine being a clone + deleted lines
https://twitter.com/senatesidious/status/1233995580709449729

Ian said that in the “original script that is no longer with us” (hmm) Kylo points out Palpatine’s a clone, and Palpatine responds:

"More than a clone… less than a man.

Sounds like another one of Jason Ward’s leaks has been confirmed. One of his leaks from around September described the scene of Kylo meeting Palpatine. According to him, Kylo asks “What are you?” to which Palpatine replies “Not a clone, not yet a man.” The phrasing in this version is different, but the point is basically the same. So this just gives more credibility to the leaks representing an earlier version of the movie.

SparkySywer said:

Edit them to be absolutely jam-packed with stimulation, pop ups every few seconds, incredibly loud and distracting music, text pointing out details, jokes and memes thrown in there for good measure, and cut from scene to scene before they finish.

So basically the Crappy Piracy Website cuts?

OutboundFlight said:

Overall, I think a lot of the hate towards TLJ comes to… ok I’m sorry for bringing this quote up again… but your subversion of expectations.

TLJ set some concepts up and I think maybe in part of the constant debate that’s ensued over the past two years, the majority has come to a basic conclusion of what Episode 9 must do. Without considering RJ left things very open.
–Rey should struggle with being no one
–Rey should find a balance between the old and new
–Rey should rebuild the Jedi Order

I understand your point of view. It is kind of hypocritical that TLJ fans constantly say, “You just didn’t like TLJ because your fan theories didn’t come true!” while simultaneously making fan theories about TROS and being upset when they don’t come true.

The thing is TROS goes in another direction that remains consistent with The Last Jedi. Rey never was too shocked about being no one in TLJ. She cried, yes, but an hour later was happy as can be and two hours later talking to Leia about rebuilding. So why do we have to follow Rey coming to terms with something she already did off-screen? TROS gives us something new, and honestly, I was invested in whether Rey would join Palpatine and we’d get a dark Rey / good Ben fight. Kinda sad we didn’t actually.

Maybe you were invested, but a lot of people weren’t. I feel like TROS shouldn’t have brought up Rey’s parentage at all. Rey already came to terms with it in TLJ, and most people didn’t like the “I am your father” ripoff twist pulled out at the last minute.

OutboundFlight said:

StarkillerAG said:

OutboundFlight said:

I think the issue is a lot of people wanted “Rey Solana” to be the message. That anyone can be a Jedi. TROS keeps this idea but renames it, now anyone can be a Skywalker. It actually builds on the themes of the TLJ, where Luke Skywalker was a legend. Now, anyone can be a legend.

I really don’t agree with this. Why does Rey have to be an honorary Skywalker in order to show that anyone can be a legend? Why can’t Rey make her own legacy, beyond the words “Skywalker” and “Palpatine”? Is it impossible to be a legend unless you change your last name to Skywalker? This is the kind of stuff TLJ was trying to avoid, so I don’t understand why you think Rey Palpawalker builds on the themes of TLJ any more than keeping Rey Nobody would.

I suppose we saw different TLJs, because it’s clear to me the only impact Luke had at the Battle of Crait was his name. Had he been some random Jedi, no one would have cared. Then Luke claims he will not be the Last Jedi, and we Rey: evidence that she will carry on the traditions, not create new ones. It’s not ideal: I agree there’s a lot of errors in the concept, what about the other Jedi etc. But I see it as consistent throughout the ST.

I guess we have seen different movies, because I never got the implication that Rey was going to become an honorary Skywalker from TLJ. Luke said “I will not be the last Jedi,” not “I will not be the last Skywalker.” And just because Luke’s last name is famous doesn’t mean Rey has to adopt it.

NeverarGreat said:

The issue with her taking the name Skywalker is that it is a quixotic conclusion to her character arc. Rey spends three movies searching for a family, and ends by taking the name of a family that is now vanished from the galaxy. Sure, she feels comfortable carrying on the Skywalker legacy (at least the good one(s) anyway), but this does little to satisfy her need for a real living family in whatever form that takes. It’s a big missed opportunity because now there is a galaxy of young people who have been stripped of their parents, potentially forever. Will they all take the name Skywalker? Will Finn? There is no indication of this, and it throws into tension her emotional reunion with Finn and Poe, her presumed new ‘family’. The movie also seems to forget that Rey’s real parents died heroically to save her, so not taking their name is another instance of the film throwing a rake in front of itself to trip over.

Beyond these particular tensions, there is an even larger tension with the final scene, and it has to do with the hero’s journey. In the archetypal tale our hero goes forth on adventure and returns home fundamentally changed in some way. The final scene of a mythic tale gives answer to the final question regarding the hero, that of whether they will return to society or whether the journey has changed them too much to ever truly return. Frodo cannot return to the Shire, instead sailing to the Undying Lands to be healed. Luke does return to society in the final scene of Return of the Jedi, leaving the ghosts of the past to join in the celebration. So what does Rey do?

The penultimate scene of TROS implies that despite being changed by her journey, she will return to society and live happily among them. This is a sufficient answer and completes her arc. However the final scene flips this assumption. Now she is reviving the ghosts of the past through her name and ending the film alone on a desert planet. If she were merely going there to bury the past it wouldn’t necessarily be an issue, but the name implies a connection with this isolation that she will never be rid of. She both does and does not return to society simultaneously, and this is why I find it so frustrating.

I never interested the final scene as Rey forever being the Last Jedi. She only came there to end off the saga. After looking into the binary sunrise (symbolizing a new beginning) Rey will go back to her friends and hopefully rebuild the Jedi Order.

I agree with this. I’ve never understood the argument that “Rey ends the movie on Tatooine, therefore she’s going to spend the rest of her life there!” She was just going there to bury the sabers at Luke’s childhood home. After that she’ll probably go back to the Resistance and continue the Jedi legacy.

And Rey still struggles with the ideas of family. It’s just not in the ways most interpreted based off TLJ. She has already answered the obvious question of if she can have a family in the resistance (she was never too sad by the fact she’s a nobody). Instead, it’s all about if she can keep it: she is afraid the others will distance her for being the granddaughter of Palpatine. It’s more a test of what she has accomplished so far, after spending TFA and most of TLJ yearning to return to the past, she now stands firmly with the future.

I understand that point of view, I just wish it was made more clear in the movie. As it stands, Rey’s character arc in TROS is basically, “Oh no, this evil person is my ancestor! Will I become good like my friends or evil like him?” That’s essentially just Luke’s arc repeated again, so it seems less original than keeping Rey as a nobody.

OutboundFlight said:

I think the issue is a lot of people wanted “Rey Solana” to be the message. That anyone can be a Jedi. TROS keeps this idea but renames it, now anyone can be a Skywalker. It actually builds on the themes of the TLJ, where Luke Skywalker was a legend. Now, anyone can be a legend.

I really don’t agree with this. Why does Rey have to be an honorary Skywalker in order to show that anyone can be a legend? Why can’t Rey make her own legacy, beyond the words “Skywalker” and “Palpatine”? Is it impossible to be a legend unless you change your last name to Skywalker? This is the kind of stuff TLJ was trying to avoid, so I don’t understand why you think Rey Palpawalker builds on the themes of TLJ any more than keeping Rey Nobody would.

pleasehello said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Mocata said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Mocata said:

Vader’s redemption kind of comes out of nowhere. But it doesn’t matter unless you expect a fully realised villain, with many facets and deep characterisation. The Empire might seem like fascist super state, but meaningful comparisons to real historical figures are not really appropriate. It’s just Star Wars.

All the more reason why Trek is the superior Star franchise.

Maybe once, not so much these days.

Difference is modern Trek doesn’t retroactively ruin what came before. At least not for me.

Have you seen the new Picard show?

Yeah, and it’s pretty good. It seems like a lot of the problems people have with the show are just problems with Nemesis and Star Trek '09. They couldn’t just erase those movies without messing up the canon, so they took the least disruptive way of continuing the series in my opinion. I don’t think it “retroactively ruins” anything.

Excellent work, seamless as always. Ever since I first noticed that continuity error, I’ve never been able to unsee it. Great job for fixing something I thought was unfixable. The choreography in the rest of the fight is still really sloppy, but there’s not really much you can do about it.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

I believe that he-who-must-not-be-named was given access to that visual effects fix for his “fan-edit”, so I see no reason as to why Immersion VFX wouldn’t oblige. And it was a version without the lightsabers.

Actually, I’m pretty sure Iv*n used the original version of the Praetorian fight. He tried to make the disappearing knife less noticeable by cutting from the guard pinning Rey to Rey dropping the lightsaber, but it didn’t really work (just like a lot of other things in his edit).

Hal 9000 said:

What was done to the Broom Boy scene?

The last two shots of the scene have been extended, allowing the rebel ring to be removed without disrupting the music. If you didn’t notice any changes, then it probably worked.

FreezingTNT2 said:

StarkillerAG said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

@Poppasketti, do you plan on fixing the editing error in the throne room fight?

How, exactly?

It’s not very noticable, and trying to fix it would probably create even more problems, so it’s not really worth it in my opinion.

Simple: VFX.

That’s what I was asking though. What kind of VFX? What is your idea of how to fix it? I’ve seen many attempted solutions, but none of them really work.

Too dark and contrasty. I like what you’re going for, but I don’t like the crushed blacks.

FreezingTNT2 said:

@Poppasketti, do you plan on fixing the editing error in the throne room fight?

How, exactly?

It’s not very noticable, and trying to fix it would probably create even more problems, so it’s not really worth it in my opinion.

RogueLeader said:

The way I’m seeing some people talk about this online has me worried a little. Despite Lucasfilm trying to do something brand new, people are already comparing it to the Old Republic, and saying how they would’ve preferred that.

Guys, give it a chance. People want new things, and you give it to them and then they complain that it’s not the old thing.

Star Wars fans are a fickle lot. No matter what Disney does, professional malcontents will find a way to hate it. Just ignore them and form your own opinions.

Personally, I’m really excited for this. The thousand year era of peace between the founding of the Second Republic and the Clone Wars hasn’t really been covered in any previous media, EU or canon. It seems like they’re going for a “mythic golden age” aesthetic here, and I’ve always liked that style of epic fantasy. These books have a huge potential, I just hope it isn’t squandered.

The dead speak!

Mocata said:

Is this even a movie/TV thing or just another weird multimedia project?

Neither of those. It’s an interconnected series of books and comics, similar to the New Jedi Order saga. Two novels, a children’s book, and two comic books have already been planned, and more stuff is coming soon.

Absolutely seamless, great work! You should definitely add this to the final version.

Count me as one of the people who opposes “saving the reveal”. Despite what Lucas says, the prequels were never meant to be watched before the originals. All 3 prequels were marketed exclusively to people who had seen the originals, so the movies were obviously intended to be watched in release order. “Saving the reveal” is a complete non-issue for people who watch the movies the way they were actually intended to be watched.

liambrazier said:

DominicCobb said:

• Extend the lightspeed skipping scene using a shot from the trailer, so that we get a bit more time to register what’s happening.

Can I ask a bit more about this? What shot is in the trailer that helps the pacing here?

He probably means the shot in the first teaser trailer, with the Falcon coming out of hyperspace.

stevepaynter said:

Also, what is everyone feeling about the lesbian kiss at the celebration near the end of the movie? Is this something that will be on the cut list? Did it feel forced and out of place for a Star Wars movie?

I actually do want to cut it, but for the exact opposite reason you do. It just feels like a token, an excuse for not giving Finn and Poe some kind of romance. “We’re totally not homophobes, look! We added a kiss between two women who have never been seen before, that was edited out for Muslim nations! Diversity for the win!”

nl0428 said:

There is one other hope out there. What if the deleted scenes are released with the expensive Skywalker Saga box set or possibly in the coming months with a Special Release on Blu-ray? We can be hopeful.