StarkillerAG

Movies Remastered said:

StarkillerAG said:

JakeRyan17 said:

I would argue that was by design. In life, things don’t happen in such a perfect order. I think he was trying to make the characters more fleshed out, especially as they had so little depth or development in The Force Awakens.

Well, movies aren’t real life. It’s like complaining about how nobody sneezes in Jurassic Park, or how nobody goes to the bathroom in Avengers. That sort of awkward stuff is typically removed in movies to increase tension. As a third-person observer, stupid jokes and awkward humor can kill tension flat.

The Diplodocus sneezes in Jurassic Park and iron man pees in his suit 😉

Goddammit MR, you ruined my point! 😉

Although technically, those were just one off gag sequences, and didn’t interfere with the tension of the movie. I was just contrasting that to TLJ’s nonstop use of bathos.

JakeRyan17 said:

Note that this conversation started with someone saying “I know people hate Last Jedi, but…” and asking about a deleted scene.

Replies started with how TLJ-friendly the site is and now it’s just people trashing it even after people have tried to get back on topic. Can we get back on topic now?

Yeah, this conversation got way out of hand. Let’s just agree to disagree.

DominicCobb said:

You guys do realize there are discussion threads for these movies right? You don’t need to keep making the same 5 dumb complaints over and over again here.

That’s why I said that we should probably take this somewhere else.

JakeRyan17 said:

Do films have to mimic life? No. Do some filmmakers choose to have that happen? Yes.

Yes, but most of the time movies that mimic real life are comedies. A supposedly “serious” movie doing that kind of stuff is just weird and awkward.

And can we not say characters were flat in Last Jedi when there was no character development present at all in Force Awakens? C’mon now…

That’s why there needed to be more development in The Last Jedi. The characters were flat in that movie because they were also flat in The Force Awakens, and Rian had no clue how to expand their stories in a satisfying way.

JakeRyan17 said:

I would argue that was by design. In life, things don’t happen in such a perfect order. I think he was trying to make the characters more fleshed out, especially as they had so little depth or development in The Force Awakens.

Well, movies aren’t real life. It’s like complaining about how nobody sneezes in Jurassic Park, or how nobody goes to the bathroom in Avengers. That sort of awkward stuff is typically removed in movies to increase tension. As a third-person observer, stupid jokes and awkward humor can kill tension flat.

JakeRyan17 said:

He went with the choices that deepened character arcs rather than Wookiepedia pages.

Who’s to say that alternate choices wouldn’t have deepened character arcs? If anything, Rian’s overly simplistic choices made the characters seem much more flat than they could have been. Most of TLJ’s character development is just “they did it in the first movie, they do it in this movie”. Rey tries to find an identity for herself, Finn joins the Resistance, and Kylo tries to avoid being good. There’s no new dimensions added to any of the characters, when alternate choices could have made character development much richer.

I agree with Ed that this is the wrong place for this discussion though.

thebluefrog said:

That was the basic problem with TLJ’s writing. The bathos. Every serious moment had to have a silly manchild moment to break the tension. Lucas had a bad habit of this too, but not nearly as much.

Talk about it. It seems like Rian ignored the first rule of works that mix drama and comedy: The amount of comedy decreases with the amount of drama that’s going on. The OT followed that rule to great effect, only cracking jokes when there’s not much dramatic stuff going on. In TLJ, comedy is just randomly inserted into dramatic scenes, and it kills the tension as a result.

JakeRyan17 said:

If JJ had only written his intention into the script so that things were set up, instead of only setting up exactly what Johnson did.

Well, he intentionally set it up so that Rian could go any way. But unfortunately, it seems like Rian has a serious lack of imagination when he’s working on a sequel to someone else’s work.

Why is Luke in exile? Because he just wanted to run away.
Where did Snoke come from? I don’t know, let’s just kill him instead.
Why is Rey so powerful? Doesn’t matter, and you’re stupid for asking.

It feels like Rian just went with the least creative option every time, and the story suffers as a result.

NeverarGreat said:

StarkillerAG said:

Movies Remastered said:

Was Grump Luke JJs idea? It seems to have come from Johnson.

Well, JJ kind of came up with the original idea. When talking about why Luke went away, Han says this line:

“He was training a new generation of Jedi. One boy, an apprentice, turned against him and destroyed it all. Luke felt responsible. He just walked away from everything.”

So the seeds were already planted in TFA, although Rian took that idea way beyond what JJ intended.

Actually, I think Rian didn’t take it far enough. Luke in TLJ puts a whole lot of emphasis on how he failed Kylo and almost glosses over the destruction of his school and students. That would have been reason enough for Luke to have ‘walked away from everything’, but Rian was too focused on his Rashomon angle to pick the low hanging fruit.

Yeah, the Rashomon thing was dumb too. I’m still not sure if “It was instinct, I didn’t mean it” is a good enough justification for Luke trying to kill his nephew.

Hal 9000 said:

I think Rian interpreted Luke in about the only way he could given TFA’s setup. At least the best way one could if they put more than 45 seconds of concerted effort toward.

Actually, I think the lack of screen time Luke has gives even more possibilities as to why he ran away. Just going off of TFA’s previously mentioned setup, I can think of some stuff already:

• Luke searched for the ancient Jedi texts in order to find a way to redeem Ben.
• Luke sensed that Ben’s turn had been caused by some unforeseen threat, and searched for the ancient Jedi texts in order to find a way to stop it.
• Luke’s exile was purely caused by guilt over Ben’s fall, nothing related to wanting the Jedi to end.

Those are just some ideas, but I could probably think of more. Either way, “time for the Jedi to end” was certainly not the only way they could have motivated Luke to exile himself.

JakeRyan17 said:

I don’t know if we can say “beyond what JJ intended” since Abrams didn’t intend anything beyond The Force Awakens. He scrapped all plans, and was reading Johnson’s script while filming.

He should have either made Luke a full character in his film, or not included the scene on Ahch-To. Abrams chose to make his film a trailer, locking Johnson into writing a film that took place immediately after, unlike every other film in the franchise.

Well, no matter what, he clearly didn’t intend for Luke to be a grumpy old man who wants the Jedi to end. The final scene portrays him much more dramatically and mystically for JJ to even consider doing that. Even though he removed the rocks floating everywhere in order to maintain continuity with Rian’s script, The two directors’ visions were clearly at odds.

Movies Remastered said:

Was Grump Luke JJs idea? It seems to have come from Johnson.

Well, JJ kind of came up with the original idea. When talking about why Luke went away, Han says this line:

“He was training a new generation of Jedi. One boy, an apprentice, turned against him and destroyed it all. Luke felt responsible. He just walked away from everything.”

So the seeds were already planted in TFA, although Rian took that idea way beyond what JJ intended.

Chase Adams said:

fmalover said:

OK, here’s an unpopular opinion regarding Star Wars.

I’ve no issues with Jar Jar Binks and don’t know why people are so incensed by said character.

Agreed. Jar Jar is wonderful.

Et tu, Chase?

StarkillerAG said:

What… What is wrong with you?
Are you okay?

Seriously, how don’t you see it? He’s insanely annoying, his “clumsy” antics just make him seem like an idiot, and he speaks in an accent that makes me want to jam pencils up my ears. If I could remove him from the trilogy completely, I would.

See thread rules. Nobody is going to want to post here anymore if they feel like they’re losing their freedom of unpopular opinions.

I know, I was just taken aback by how incredibly strange that opinion seems to me. I’ll be a little nicer next time.

Sounds like Hal 9000’s versions would be the perfect fit for you:

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/The-Custom-Special-Edition-That-Almost-Wasnt-But-Then-Was/id/61930

fmalover said:

OK, here’s an unpopular opinion regarding Star Wars.

I’ve no issues with Jar Jar Binks and don’t know why people are so incensed by said character.

What… What is wrong with you?
Are you okay?

Seriously, how don’t you see it? He’s insanely annoying, his “clumsy” antics just make him seem like an idiot, and he speaks in an accent that makes me want to jam pencils up my ears. If I could remove him from the trilogy completely, I would.

ray_afraid said:

StarkillerAG said:

I think that must just be a problem with your sound system. I’ve never had any trouble understanding him.

It’s not that. lol
This has happened my entire life. I know many others, including Ady, who feel the same. Frank Oz’s old-Yoda-about-to-die voice is very garbled and mumbly. Not the entire scene, just at the end when he seemingly decides to go to bed & die.
There was discussion on what to do about it years ago, but I don’t think anything could be done, really.

Oh yeah, that part. The actor really overplayed the “mumbling last words” thing there, especially in the last sentence. So I kind of agree with you.

JadedSkywalker said:

Why would they show the 2011 edit and not the 2020 4K version, or better yet a 1997 print or the original?
In the middle of Covid i don’t think i would even go to the theater to see the original Empire Strikes Back on 35mm. It would be risky to the point of insanity to be packed into a theater with so many people. Masks or no masks, distancing or not.

Did you read what the person who started this thread said? There are barely any people in movie theaters right now, so social distancing isn’t really a big concern.

The audio transition at the end sounds fine to me, didn’t notice any issues. I think you might just be second-guessing yourself.

I think that must just be a problem with your sound system. I’ve never had any trouble understanding him.

Ed Slushie said:

Brewzter said:

Is it possible to change around the voices Rey hears? It’s frustrating that she hears voices of Jedi who couldn’t preserve themselves past physical death. Keep the voices of Qui-Gon, Kenobi, Yoda, Anakin, and Luke- cut the rest? The gaps might be awkward so other lines from those characters could fill in.

You know there’s a designated Redux ideas thread, right? You don’t need to make everything Hal’s responsibility.

+3000

It’s so frustrating that no one posts in the Redux thread anymore, and everyone just uses this thread as a general ideas thread instead.

J0E said:

Relative to it’s budget, it’s the worst film ever made.

Come on, you know that’s not true. I’ve seen big budget Hollywood movies that are way worse than Attack of the Clones. It’s still the worst of the prequels, but it’s not the worst big-budget movie ever.

That’s an interesting thought experiment. I actually have an idea for something like that, and I’ve been thinking about it for a while. It would be a completely redone version of the trilogy, with almost everything changed. The plot would have some significant differences, character appearances, backstories and motivations would be redone, and the science would be much harder. Think of it as more of a re-imagining than a remake.

I’ll post more details in a new thread soon.

Tammer5 said:

There is no way that JJ is proud of this cut. This is not the caliber of film he would make. I know he is a hit and miss guy (some times), but this movie was a mess, not a JJ standard. I guarantee there was a lot of executives who were meddling with the story. I am sure there is a cut that JJ would prefer to have out, but the big wigs have the final say. JJ, or any director/actor, is always gonna respond to the media with excellent feed back regarding their work because it is in the best interest of the company and the film. He’s not gonna bash the hand that feeds him or something he co-created. He probably is just done with the lack of leadership and direction going on at LUCAS-FILM.

Umm, have you forgotten the Star Trek reboot movies? Those were pretty awful. I don’t think it’s impossible for JJ to make a bad movie, he’s done it before. And there’s no tangible evidence in any of the BTS stuff that suggests meddling producers. The whole reason we know about the “creative disputes” in the spinoff movies is because it was pretty out in the open, not secret at all. I can’t imagine why they’d suddenly try to hide production issues in TROS.

DuracellEnergizer said:

E. T. The Extra-Terrestrial is emotionally manipulative junk food.

Finally someone had the guts to say it!

I’ll go further: Spielberg isn’t a very good storyteller in the first place. He’s a great director of course, especially when coupled with a good script, but whenever he actually writes a story it typically turns out to be “emotionally manipulative junk food” as you described it.

He has the same problems as Lucas, just in the opposite direction. Whereas Lucas doesn’t add enough emotion to his stories, Spielberg adds too much emotion.

schizopolis23 said:

Broom Kid said:

I don’t think Justice League has actually changed any games at all. It’s an exception, and probably one that won’t pay off the way WB hopes, either.

Whatever unfinished scenes got cut from The Rise of Skywalker would likely need fans to do a lot of heavy lifting on the VFX and sound side of things - which is fine (fans have gotten amazingly great at that in the past 20 years) but there’s a huge, huge difference in someone saying “there’s a secret cut they’re not letting you see” and “there’s probably semi-usable odds & ends on the cutting room floor that fans could incorporate into their homemade projects.”

That’s a huge gulf. And as many a fan edit has proven, just because fans CAN edit stuff back into a movie doesn’t mean they should, or that they did it well. Plenty of fan-edits have just as many bad decisions put into them as the original films do.

Damn…I take it back, you’re not skeptical, you’re downright cynical. Your last post ^^ says it all. It indicates that you lack imagination or the belief in possibilities.

Yes Virginia, there is a JJ cut. 😛

Seriously though, what does imagination have to do with anything? The post-production process for TROS has been gone through with a bunch of different movies. They start with an ultra-long “assembly cut” featuring everything they filmed, then it gets cut down into a decent-length movie. It’s just that they cut a little too much in TROS. It has nothing to do with some secret “hidden cut” that was destroyed by the evil producers.