StarkillerAG

But the way those lines are differed is markedly different than it is in ESB. Seriously, compare this scene in ANH:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLgsf8Pei6Q&t=238

To this scene in ESB:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDeCqvyfkdA&t=42

I don’t know about you, but Vader seems a lot more angry in the ANH clip.

I actually think Vader’s anger level depends on the movie. Most people arguing that Vader is calm and emotionless use ESB as an example, but Vader was at his coldest in that movie. In ANH, Vader got angry a lot, raising his voice and expressing frustration often. ROTJ also gives Vader more emotion, but in the other way around: his more compassionate side that he was hiding is brought out.

Could I have access too? I’ve been following this for a while, and it sounds interesting.

Well, this is my own personal recommendation in that style, where the focus is how many movies that person is willing to watch:

One:
ANH

Two:
ANH
ESB

Three:
ANH
ESB
ROTJ

Four:
ANH
ESB
Rogue One
ROTJ

Five:
ANH
ESB
AOTC
ROTS
ROTJ

Six:
ANH
ESB
TPM
AOTC
ROTS
ROTJ

Seven:
ANH
ESB
TPM
AOTC
ROTS
Rogue One
ROTJ

Eight:
ANH
ESB
TPM
AOTC
ROTS
ROTJ
TFA
TLJ

Nine:
ANH
ESB
TPM
AOTC
ROTS
ROTJ
TFA
TLJ
TROS

Ten:
ANH
ESB
TPM
AOTC
ROTS
Rogue One
ROTJ
TFA
TLJ
TROS

Eleven:
ANH
ESB
TPM
AOTC
ROTS
Solo
Rogue One
ROTJ
TFA
TLJ
TROS

I don’t really consider Clone Wars 2003 a movie, so I didn’t include it. And I decided to use flashback structure, where all the prequels to ANH are placed between ESB and ROTJ, because I felt that was the most satisfying first-time viewing experience.

idir_hh said:

This video: George Lucas King of Wooden Dialogue,
really softened my view on the prequels:
https://youtu.be/S5E-eSdRjXs

I hear this sort of argument all the time. “The dialogue was actually bad on purpose, you just don’t understand Lucas’s hidden genius!” Uh, no it wasn’t. If you want to create a believable tragedy, you need to get your audience invested in the characters, and I believe that’s what Lucas was trying to do. He just has no idea how to write convincing dialogue.

DuracellEnergizer said:

StarkillerAG said:

Or, as I pointed out, it’s almost as if a lot of the things that “don’t make sense” in ROTJ actually make complete sense if you look at the subtext, and a lot of ROTJ haters just don’t want to engage with the movie with that level of depth.

Exactly. Don’t want to waste anymore time polishing a turd.

As I already said, it’s not a turd. If you examine it closely, you’ll realize it’s actually a chocolate Easter bunny.

Sorry, that was a terrible metaphor. But I’d still recommend actually bothering to try and figure out what the movie was trying to say, rather than immediately dismissing it as the worst thing ever. Jedi isn’t a perfect movie, but I’m glad we got that instead of an ending with practically no substance at all. glances towards TROS

RicOlie_2 said:

StarkillerAG said:

jedi_bendu said:

No offence meant at all Duracell, but for a Star Wars fan it sounds like you really hate most of Star Wars!

I don’t think he even identifies as a Star Wars fan. He’s pretty much just here to shitpost.

For someone who spends as much time on Star Wars rewrites as he does, and has read as much EU-content, he is certainly not just shitposting.

I mean, I’m not denying that he used to love the franchise. But even he has admitted that he stopped enjoying the franchise after Phantom Menace was released. Which just brings us back to the topic of the thread.

jedi_bendu said:

No offence meant at all Duracell, but for a Star Wars fan it sounds like you really hate most of Star Wars!

I don’t think he even identifies as a Star Wars fan. He’s pretty much just here to shitpost.

G&G-Fan said:

Yeah, you know, the scenes on Dagobah, the suspense with Shuttle Tydirium, Luke and Vader’s confrontation on the bridge, Vader’s redemption, Vader’s death and funeral… all incompetently made garbage… it’s not like those are beautifully made and some of the best scenes in all of Star Wars.

Give him a bit of a break. He probably hasn’t seen the movie since the 90s.

Wow, SilverWook! You put an end to this argument once and for all!

I will admit that I was suspecting FatedDualist to be an Oojason sock, given their very similar posting style. But knowing that OOJ doesn’t have any sock accounts makes me relieved, and I hope people can stop these unfounded conspiracy theories now.

JakeRyan17 said:

It would make it so that Finn wanted to join the First Order, which in and of itself wouldn’t make sense.

I think it could be possible. We know he was a janitor for most of his First Order career, and the raid on the Jakku village was his first battle. It’s possible that he just joined the lowest ranks of the First Order to make a living, but upon seeing the atrocities that the First Order committed he had a change of heart. The other troopers don’t have that excuse, they’ve presumably been beating down and oppressing people for a long time.

And brainwashing can happen at any age, either way there would be a level of brainwashing happening. I feel like we’re just looking for excuses to not care about people dying, which… I dunno. Kinda goes against the “empathy” argument to me.

Well, people tend to be less receptive to brainwashing at an older age. It’s why so many authoritarian governments turn the school system into a propaganda machine: they want to make their citizens into brainwashed servants at the youngest age possible. If the stormtroopers were voluntary adult recruits, that would mean they agreed with the First Order’s neo-Imperial ideas at least somewhat. And I don’t think getting revenge on oppressive mass murderers signifies a lack of empathy, if anything it signals the opposite: you can recognize when someone is being oppressed, and will do whatever it takes to stop it.

Or, as I pointed out, it’s almost as if a lot of the things that “don’t make sense” in ROTJ actually make complete sense if you look at the subtext, and a lot of ROTJ haters just don’t want to engage with the movie with that level of depth.

Well, I just have much more sympathy for someone who was indoctrinated and forced to join a fascist army, while I have very little sympathy for someone who joined a fascist army by choice. In the former option, they aren’t bad at heart, they were just brainwashed. In the latter option, most of them would have to be really bad in order to willingly sign up for this. It’s not really the same in my opinion.

Here’s all the things we would need to change in order to do this, from what I can tell:

• Cut Finn saying that his only name is FN-2187, replace with audio of him saying “I’m Finn.”
• Cut Phasma looking at a picture of Finn as a kid and talking about his indoctrination process.
• Cut Finn saying that he was taken from a family he’ll never know and raised to fight.
• Cut Finn telling Phasma his new name (most edits cut this scene due to excessive comedy anyways).
• Cut the First Order officer talking about harvesting the galaxy’s young.
• Cut Jannah talking about being conscripted as a kid, possibly inserting the Falcon cockpit bit to cover up the position change.

I think it could definitely be possible, and wouldn’t affect the runtime very much.

JadedSkywalker said:

Or at best they are matched and Lukes fury gives him the edge.

Congrats, you figured out the intended goal of the scene. It’s supposed to show how powerful anger can be, showing why people would be tempted by its power. Luke trained himself before the duel, him and Vader are very similar in pure skill. But when Luke gave into anger, it allowed him to win easily. “Quicker, easier, more seductive,” as Yoda said.

I actually think it would be much easier to just remove all lines referring to the First Order stormtroopers being taken as children. I think it was just a few lines in TFA that mentioned it, so it should be pretty easy. It would make Finn’s decision to leave seem more unique, as if he was one of the few troopers who didn’t support genocidal fascism. It would also make it less weird that he kills his former comrades without a second thought.

JackNapier said:

StarkillerAG said:

JackNapier said:

JadedSkywalker said:

People would have been bored out of their minds watching Luke train Younglings, Leia sitting behind a desk signing bills as Chancellor of the republic, or Han training pilots for the new republic academy.

That is most likely what would have happened in Lucas sequels.

Naw ruining characters doesn’t make a good story Rian.

What does RJ have to do with any of this? You may not have liked the direction he took the characters, but you gotta admit that a boring, relatively conflict-free sequel trilogy would not be good either.

Or you know just adapt the respectful Thrawn Trilogy and not ruin original characters just to introduce new ones.

How could they do that? All the original cast are old. They couldn’t reprise their roles without weird uncanny valley CGI effects, and any recast would just look wrong. And I believe the Thrawn trilogy story was much better suited to novel format. Trimming it so that each book fits a 2.5 hour movie runtime would make it worse in my opinion.

It’s one of those things that fans always clamor for, but if they actually got it they would realize the grass is always greener on the other side.

Mocata said:

Okay I’ve just thought of something, but Obi-wan says his pupil was called Darth Vader. As in that was his first and last name, a normal name. Not some dumbass evil moniker like every other dumbass red saber swinging goof in the universe.

That wasn’t changed by the prequels though, it was changed by Return of the Jedi. Obi-Wan reveals that Vader’s real name was Anakin Skywalker, resulting in the implication that “Darth Vader” is a code name. If you’re looking for a part of the Star Wars franchise that the prequels “OBJECTIVELY RUINED FOREVER”, that’s not it.

JackNapier said:

JadedSkywalker said:

People would have been bored out of their minds watching Luke train Younglings, Leia sitting behind a desk signing bills as Chancellor of the republic, or Han training pilots for the new republic academy.

That is most likely what would have happened in Lucas sequels.

Naw ruining characters doesn’t make a good story Rian.

What does RJ have to do with any of this? You may not have liked the direction he took the characters, but you gotta admit that a boring, relatively conflict-free sequel trilogy would not be good either.

Chase Adams said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

Fennec Shand is a non-character. Remove her and her introductory episode (one of the worst episodes) and nothing changes. She’s so forgettable when she’s reintroduced in S2 and Din recognizes her I had to take a moment to figure out who she was.

Still more characterisation in that brief conversation she has in Chapter 5 than anyone across all three prequels.

Uh, what? You sound like a sequel hater here. Anakin is a bad character, but he has ten times more depth than Fennec could ever hope to have.

They could’ve at least given her a unique design or something.

It’s all about the flashy looks, isn’t it? Obviously the quality of a character is assessed by their costume.

That’s not what he’s saying at all, in fact he’s saying the opposite. Fennec has practically zero character, so if they want to make her memorable they could at least pull a Boba Fett and make her look cool.

JackNapier said:

The sequels are trash and are an insult to the characters from the original trilogy.

That ain’t unpopular, man.

I felt like I understood what is going on slightly more, but just when I thought I did, the Great Purge of 2018 happened all over again. From being on the internet for long enough, it seems like the natural life cycle of an internet forum is for the mods and the users to turn on each other.

I’m out of off-topic for a little while, and everyone gets delusions of grandeur.

Seriously though, I have no idea what’s going on here, and I don’t know if I want to know. From what I understand, it seems like Oojason came back just to randomly ban Handman? I don’t remember Handman doing anything wrong, so this seems really weird to me.

Slavicuss said:

I haven’t seen SOLO (don’t particularly want to), so I can’t be sure, but I think THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK may be the only STAR WARS film not to have subtitles for alien languages?

Not the only one. Revenge of the Sith doesn’t have any, and neither does The Last Jedi.

In general, it seems like the movies trying to be more serious avoid subtitles for some reason.

Looks seamless, dude! I don’t see any trace of the dots from the original scene.

If you could get the alternate Phasma scene restored to a decent quality, that would be great to be inserted in a fan edit that’s not quite as focused on being seamless. It really adds depth to Finn’s character.

Could I also have a link to the workprint? I remember being really excited for this edit before it went into limbo.