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Smoking Lizard

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17-Dec-2015
Last activity
20-Dec-2019
Posts
146

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Post
#892874
Topic
Star Wars (ANH) makes no sense Logically, therefore it's good Cinematically - (YouTube video "Plot Holes and Artistic License in Star Wars" Discussion.)
Time

SilverWook said:

Flash Gordon is 1930’s. 😉

Touche.

Trying to explain the space slug scene is like trying to find scientific accuracy in the Monstro the whale sequence in Pinocchio.

True. But we’re not trying to find scientific accuracy in the space slug. At least I’m not.

Post
#892872
Topic
<strong>Despecialized Editions</strong> by Harmy : Index of 'How-To's &amp; Help' Threads | Index of 'General Despecialized Threads' | ‘Where are they? And how do I get them?’ mega-merge thread...
Time

TavorX said:

Users awaiting email confirmation will not be able to post or use the search feature.

Says nothing about not being able to view forum posts and seeing the download links provided in said forum post. I never validated my account, but didn’t see the need to since it’s all right there.

Granted, maybe I’m in the wrong since I never actually attempted to download any of the files (data caps man). Maybe it blocks you from using the download links if not validated, but not sure how that would be the case.

Edit: Welp, appears even you can get your account working, the recent posters are saying most of the links are missing/broken now. So never mind then.

Edit 2: There’s an updated thread with working links. If you cannot get a validated account and unable to use the search function, go to that guide, click the original thread link to Tehparadox it gives. Then, scroll to the bottom where the “Tags” are listed. Click “harmy” and it will take you to another page where it lists all the threads containing the word harmy. Click the second thread link, and there you go, updated links.

Thanks for trying to help. There are many problems with this method and this document. Not the least of which is Microsoft views that JDownloader as malware and blocks it from being installed.

I get that what Harmy is doing is just barely on this side of legal and could be viewed as piracy, but I would think there’d be a better way to download it.

Post
#892862
Topic
<strong>Despecialized Editions</strong> by Harmy : Index of 'How-To's &amp; Help' Threads | Index of 'General Despecialized Threads' | ‘Where are they? And how do I get them?’ mega-merge thread...
Time

I have to chime in here and agree with the OP. Maybe I’m just a nitwit, but I’ve never been able to get that document or Harmy’s instructions to work. The whole thing seems to hinge on an account on tehParadox, which is a forum, but you have to sign up for an account, which then needs to be validated by a moderator, and no one ever bothers to validate. So you never get an account and you’re dead in the water.

Post
#892859
Topic
Star Wars (ANH) makes no sense Logically, therefore it's good Cinematically - (YouTube video &quot;Plot Holes and Artistic License in Star Wars&quot; Discussion.)
Time

ZkinandBonez said:

The big confusion here I think comes from the fact that SW borrows from so much sci-fi that it does give the impression that it actually does make some scientific sense at times, but then all of a sudden there’s a space-slug with it’s own ‘gravitational pull’.

My objection to the space slug isn’t so much that it has its own gravity, as maybe the asteroid it lives on is large enough to have its own gravity, but that the slug is living in a vacuum. And worse, the characters step out of the MF into what they believe is a vacuum. That, I think, is a case of TESB breaking its own rules. If TIE pilots need life support space suits to survive space, so does Han Solo, when he leaves the safe confines of his ship.

However, I wouldn’t say that the space-slug scene is “stupid” because it works well within the narrative, as well as within it’s fantasy logic…So I’d argue that the space-slug is anything but stupid, I’d say it’s pretty brilliant.

I’m not so sure about that. I see your point, but I think the whole slug thing was unnecessary. Just sort of a 1950s “Flash Gordon” thing that Lucas was fond of.

Post
#892841
Topic
Star Wars (ANH) makes no sense Logically, therefore it's good Cinematically - (YouTube video &quot;Plot Holes and Artistic License in Star Wars&quot; Discussion.)
Time

ZkinandBonez said:

Also I disagree that ANH, or any SW film for that matter, follow it’s own rules. I’d barely say that is has any form of rules. It doesn’t need any “rules”, because unlike something like Star Trek it doesn’t have to obey the laws of physics. It’s a fantasy, and you don’t have to explain it any more than you need to explain magic in a fantasy film.

Yeah, this is a hard concept for me to put into words. When I say a fantasy has to obey its own rules, I’m not saying it has to obey the laws of physics. I’m saying it has to, well, obey its own rules.

For example, if you and I made a movie about vampires, and we establish that the only way to kill these vampires is to drive a wooden stake through the vampire’s heart, if, at the end of the movie, the hero kills the main vampire by shooting it with a pistol, you’d conclude that was stupid, correct?

Indeed, vampires are fantasy. There’s no such thing. And they certainly don’t have to obey the laws of physics, but if you establish in your vampire universe that the only way to kill them is with the wooden stake, killing one with a pistol would be absurd. It would be a contradiction, a logic trap. But the problem is, often times when critics point out these logic traps, these absurdities, the defenders of the film are quick to say things like, “It’s a fantasy! It doesn’t have to obey the laws of physics!” and, “It’s just a movie!” and, “It’s a vampire movie! You’re trying to inject logic into a vampire movie?! News flash! VAMPIRES AREN’T REAL!”

All of these defenses completely miss the point.

Take the space-slug scene from ESB as an example…

Agreed. The space slug was stupid. Lucas just loves to have big monsters attempt to eat things in his movies. It’s ironic when I saw TESB at the age of 11, I attempted to explain why the space slug was stupid and I got the very same, “It’s a movie!” and “It’s science fiction, not science science!” defenses.

It’s just one of those things you’ve got to give a pass.

Post
#892799
Topic
Star Wars (ANH) makes no sense Logically, therefore it's good Cinematically - (YouTube video &quot;Plot Holes and Artistic License in Star Wars&quot; Discussion.)
Time

ZkinandBonez said:

Hang on a minute, I’m a bit confused. You’re using a picture of a building to disprove the “Death Star is just a big house in space” statement?

The Death Star is NOT a big house in space; the Death Star is a small planet (or, well, moon) in space. Imagine it this way. When the Empire built the Death Star, they build a surface. A plain, flat surface, like the surface of a planet. And then they build city structures along that surface.

The thing that the MF flew into was a really large building that was constructed on the SURFACE of the Death Star.

Also my point with the image I posted earlier is that they enter by the equator trench…

No, they did not. See the above comment. Yes, it’s difficult to imagine at first, but once you get it, it will be intuitive. You won’t be able to “unsee” it.

However, we can clearly see people standing on the same horizontal plane as the falcon does entering the hangar. They are essentially standing with the south-pole downwards, and the north-pole upwards, and with the Death Star core to their side.

No. They are standing with the core at their feet, their heads facing space, and the north and south poles are immaterial, just like on earth or the moon.

So when Darth Vader came in and said, “Send a scan team in,” he was standing in a building built on the surface of the Death Star, not in the guts of the Death Star. The Death Star is a small planet. You build stuff on the surface.

Are they “lasers” though?

According to Han Solo they are: “That wasn’t a laser blast…something hit us!”

Post
#892793
Topic
Star Wars (ANH) makes no sense Logically, therefore it's good Cinematically - (YouTube video &quot;Plot Holes and Artistic License in Star Wars&quot; Discussion.)
Time

ZkinandBonez said:

Well, the film “flipflops” the logic of the Death Star so to speak. When the Falcon is pulled into the hangar the gravity is clearly downwards;

No, it doesn’t. It’s just a perception illusion. Imagine the hangar the MF is flying into is at the top of the Empire State building. See it? Now imagine the Empire State building has an opening for ships to fly through to land. Is that opening in the roof of the Empire State Building? No. It’s on the side. Like this:

It’s like he says in the video, the film makes up whatever logic it needs to tell an interesting story, as well as be visually interesting.

Well the Death Star gravity thing does not prove his point, as I illustrated above.

Also how is he shooting out a window on a space-station?

Lasers in the visible spectrum (red) pass through glass. They’re light. Just like your laser pointer.

It looks cool, and the more down-to-earth feel adds a level familiarity that the audience can connect to while at the same time making it more interesting and entertaining by putting it into space.

Yes. This is true. Something I say over and over again, is it’s OK to create a fantasy universe, but once the fantasy universe is created, you have to obey that universe’s laws. Otherwise your movie is stupid.

ANH, by and large, obeys its own rules. The only glaring plot holes that I can think of and fans have known about for almost 40 years are the “They’re tracking us” scene, the droids wandering around Mos Eisley unhidden, the ease of disabling the tractor beam (although possibly explained by “The Imperials let them do it so they can escape and be tracked”), and the medal ceremony.

The PT and TFA do NOT obey the established laws of the OT universe. The PT grotesquely so.

Post
#892774
Topic
Star Wars (ANH) makes no sense Logically, therefore it's good Cinematically - (YouTube video &quot;Plot Holes and Artistic License in Star Wars&quot; Discussion.)
Time

ZkinandBonez said:
Well, first off, he does point out how he’s a casual viewer of SW. Not everyone is as well versed in SW lore as the fans are, and not everyone has seen ANH enough times to know every detail by heart.

If he doesn’t understand the basic story elements of the movie, he’s not qualified to comment on the story elements, and his commentary is worthless.

He analyzing the film’s strengths not as a part of the franchise, but as a standalone film.

Yes and no. He flipflops. At one point he’s just talking about ANH but then he complains about how Leia refers to her father on Alderaan when, in later movies, as he points out, Darth Vader is her father.

Smoking Lizard said:
…the Death Star pulls everything downwards (wrong!)

I understand that that editing sequence is misleading. The Death Star is built with buildings jutting up from its surface, just as building are built on earth. The gravity is at the core of the space station. So the hangar bay the MF flew into was a tall building structure. See here:

Smoking Lizard said:
EDIT

Oh! And the medal ceremony at the end. That stupid ceremony bothered me more than anything else.

I’m not quite sure what you’re trying to say here. Are you still disagreeing with him, or are you agreeing with him here?

Yes, I’m agreeing with him. The medal ceremony certainly played a critical role in wrapping up the film with a happy ending, but logically, as far story goes, it makes no sense. The Rebels just destroyed the Empire’s greatest new asset…but they lollygag around to give out medals when surely the Imperial fleet is on its way to retaliate?

Post
#892753
Topic
Star Wars (ANH) makes no sense Logically, therefore it's good Cinematically - (YouTube video &quot;Plot Holes and Artistic License in Star Wars&quot; Discussion.)
Time

Alderaan said:

None of that stuff is plot holes.

This. Those “documentaries” weren’t even worth watching, as they were clearly written by someone who barely understood the movie. Half of it was just plain dumb: Lasers shot into the trash compactor water would electrocute everyone; why was Leia “wasting time” going to visit Obi Wan when it was urgent to get the plans to the Rebels; the gas giant Yavin would be too far from its sun for the Rebel base to be habitable (wrong!); the Death Star pulls everything downwards (wrong!); etc., etc.

He gets the one about Leia guessing that the Imperials are tracking them right, and the one about Obi Wan shutting the tractor beam off, but that’s about it.

All in all? Not worth watching.

EDIT

Oh! And the medal ceremony at the end. That stupid ceremony bothered me more than anything else.

Post
#892629
Topic
What didn't you like about TFA? <em>SPOILERS</em>
Time

TV’s Frink said:

Luke wasn’t exactly a Master. Doing and teaching are also two different skills. Perhaps Luke wasn’t a good teacher.

I suppose that’s possible. If so, all hope is lost for the Jedi. Oh, wait – no. Rey is good at everything, so she’ll succeed where Luke failed. So maybe she was the “there is another”? Oh, wait. She wasn’t born yet. But then maybe Yoda could see that far into the future. We just needed Luke to carry us past Darth Vader and the Emperor and then let Rey take over from there. Or something.

As far as Rey’s journey to the Force goes, Luke learned almost as quickly. Granted he had a bit of teaching from Obi-Wan, but not much.

I’m not so sure I agree with you on this point. In ANH, Luke was only beginning to discover the Force. Then there were 3 years between ANH and TESB, and I’m sure Luke practised every day. In fact, he probably went to the MF, got his remote lightsaber training ball…oh, wait…no he didn’t – Finn found that still aboard the MF, right where Luke left it. I guess Luke just shadow boxed instead.

Post
#892523
Topic
What didn't you like about TFA? <em>SPOILERS</em>
Time

TV’s Frink said:

Do we know they were actually Jedi? As opposed to being in-training, or at the very least very inexperienced…the Jedi slaughtered in the PT were battle-tested and even Masters. Big difference.

True. That’s a fair point, but what was Luke doing for the past 30 years? Yoda told him to pass on what he had learned…did other things take priority? Does it take 30 years to train new Jedi?

Evidently not, considering it appears Rey has learned pretty much on her own…in ten minutes.

Post
#892500
Topic
What didn't you like about TFA? <em>SPOILERS</em>
Time

TavorX said:

I thought I was being nice enough not to bring up the PT when the discussion was driven primarily with the OT.

Yes, the PT is inherently contradictory.

Yes, you’re making a very good point and I’m not trying to use PT to discount your well thought out “Too much other stuff going on to do that” theory; I’m just saying that by expanding the powers of the Force (as in levitating the X-wing out of the bog) leads to gratuitous stuff, like hurling senate stadium seats and freezing blaster bolts midair.

It quickly descends into a juvenile game of one-up-manship. I’m reminded of a kid I went to grade school with named Ricky. When we were 10, this one very creative kid named Omar drew a cool futuristic tank with a big ion cannon on it. When I praised the tank for being cool, Ricky got jealous and drew a similar tank but with six ion cannons on it and then insisted his was better.

Post
#892498
Topic
What didn't you like about TFA? <em>SPOILERS</em>
Time

TavorX said:

Yeah, why didn’t Vader do this on the Blockade Runner either?

Kylo Ren could freeze that blaster bolt since that was the only threat to him and he could focus just on that. A Force user trying to do impressive stuff with many things going on leaves them vulnerable to being attacked from multiple sides. Imagine Yoda trying to stop a whole fleet of Star Destroyers while laser bombardment rained on his location. I don’t think he could do it with so much chaos.

And, well, that’s how we wound up with this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DI8kkR9G0Q

Post
#892485
Topic
What didn't you like about TFA? <em>SPOILERS</em>
Time

The prequel fights were garbage because it was just good guy vs. bad guy trying to outfight each other. Who cares.

Exactly. The reason why the lightsaber duels were so epic in the OT – particularly TESB – is because we are emotionally invested in the characters. In TESB, we are actually afraid for Luke as Luke cautiously steps up and ignites his saber and Vader coolly, nonchalantly ignites his. We get the sense that Luke is outmatched. And then the emotional buildup swells from there. When we get to the big reveal, holy crap! It’s thrilling.

The PT duels were just a bunch of acrobatics and stunt acting for the purpose of “dazzling” the audience. Quite frankly, the villains – Maul, Dooku, and Grievous – who cares? I really couldn’t quite sense why, exactly, they were bad and what they had to gain out of all of it. It’s all just…whatever. Hey, look at that – someone got an arm cut off. Woopee.

It’s stuff like this that leads me to very strongly believe that someone else was writing Star Wars for Lucas. Lucas was coming up with rough ideas: “Let’s do an ice fortress! Let’s have a city in the clouds! Let’s have snow lizards!” and someone else was stitching it all into great stories. And evidently, whoever that person was, was gone by the time the PT was done.

Lord Haseo said:
That’s fine and all but the scene in which Kylo Ren freezes the blaster bolt isn’t even a fight scene it’s a moment in the first scene of the film that establishes how powerful our villain is (which of course ends up being misdirection.). There weren’t any other factors that could have enhanced the tension or importance of the scene. It’s unfair to compare the scenes to be honest.

Like I said earlier, it’s a “Sharknado” moment. Any time you get into the, “But then why couldn’t…” moment, you’ve created something contrived. That is, if Ren can freeze blaster bolts in midair, why couldn’t Vader have frozen the blaster bolts fired by the crew of the Blockade Runner in the first movie?

Admittedly, some of the Force powers shown in TESB cross the line of being gratuitous. I love the idea of being able to use telekinesis to pull small objects like a blaster or your lightsaber to your hand, but the idea of being able to pull an X-wing out of a bog was too much. For then it opened up all other obvious “But then why couldn’t…” moments.

Why couldn’t Vader have caught Luke in his fall?
Why couldn’t the Emperor have floated back up to the platform?
Why couldn’t Luke have thrown the Rancor across the dungeon?
Why couldn’t Luke have bent the bars to let himself out of the Rancor’s dungeon?
Why couldn’t Luke levitate Lando out of the Sarlaac pit?
Why couldn’t Luke push all of Jabba’s bad guys into the Sarlaac pit?

I suppose that last one would be using the dark side, so it wouldn’t count, but you get my drift.

Post
#892336
Topic
What didn't you like about TFA? <em>SPOILERS</em>
Time

Lord Haseo said:

I don’t know how Kylo Ren freezing a blaster bolt in midair is a bad thing.

Corny? Sure, it appeals big to the 10-year-olds and the hardened comic book readers in the audience, but for many of the fans of the original, un-specialized trilogy, it’s over the top.

There’s this fine line in space fantasy movies: It’s OK to stretch the imagination, but it’s easy to go too far and then insult the intelligence. Cool quickly becomes silly.

There is a subtlety to the Force in the first two movies. The Force grants powers that aren’t so, well, garish, for lack of a better word. But now, it seems, anything goes.

Star Wars is fast approaching Sharknado.