Smoking Lizard

RU.08 said:
In the original trilogy, Darth Vader is never referred to as a Sith, he’s a Jedi that has been converted to the dark side (for example I’ve always understood “Your sad devotion to that ancient religion …” to be referring to him as a Jedi not Sith).

It is unfortunate, I think, that there is now so much convoluted garbage in the Star Wars franchise that modern fans don’t understand the original trilogy.

From the original 1976 script:

The awesome, seven-foot-tall Dark Lord of the SITH makes his way into the blinding light of the main passageway. This is Darth Vader, right hand of the Emperor.

MalàStrana said:

LOL I hated the first episode. Looks like a cheap Marvel tvseries with random guys playing cosplay at a fan convention. I just can’t stand how they label anything “Star Wars” just because there is a guy wearing a SW helmet 😕 It was lame from minute one to the ridiculous baby Yoda reveal. It’s terrible…

Rebels S3/4, TFA, Rogue One, Solo, and now this… let the past die please 😄

I’ll just watch episode 9 because I have to finish this damned ST, but after that I’m done with Star Wars. It’s no longer Star Wars since 1997 anyway, so it’s time to say good bye.

Agreed. I will say “Rogue One” was sensational, but everything else Disney has done in Star Wars has been beyond awful. In fairness, I can’t comment on the animated series, as I’ve not watched them, but everything else I have and it’s bad.

I have long tried to understand why fans like this dreck so much and the only things I can come up with are nostalgia, community identity, and brand loyalty.

TavorX said:

…uhh so tell the bounty hunter all the details, and on the off chance he gets captured/interrogated, someone else not beholden to original contract could bargen with that Imperial dude for stipulations he didn’t want to be a part of.

That’s usually the way it works. If you want someone caught by a bounty hunter or killed by a hitman, you have to identify the person.

I mean, c’mon.

TavorX said:

Point #7 seems weird to gripe about. It would be so plain-jane to dryly say and spell out every plot point all at once. The show had me in the dark most of the time of what the hell was going to happen, in a good way of course.

Because it’s corny? Contrived? Stilted? Not a logical way for people to behave?

Good God, this show was terrible. Terrible. Signed up last night for Disney+ to watch…canceled this morning.

At random:

1. You like Boba Fett? We got him! What’s that? Boba Fett’s dead? Well, this is Broba Fett! He’s a bounty hunter with the same cool armor! Because all people from a planet enter the same profession!

2. You like IG-88? We got him! Well, we have IG-11. Same thing. Different number. Also a bounty hunter. Just as good!

REDACTED No TROS spoilers in here.

5. We have doors in this universe that, if you forget your hat and turn back for it, will chop you in half.

6. Ice sea monster that bites stuff! Lucas loved monsters that live in the water that bite stuff! We’ve got one, too!

7. What’s the bounty? I’m not telling you! You have to figure that out yourself! All I’m telling you is his age – 50! Why the games? Do you want the guy or not? Why won’t you just tell me? Because if I tell you, it’ll ruin the stupid surprise for the audience!

8. Roasting Salacious Crumb! And his buddy pitifully trembling in the cage! Can you get any more gratuitously disturbing?

9. Carbon freezing prisoners! Because encasing them in an extremely heavy material that requires a crane to lift is soooooooo much more efficient than, say, handcuffing him to a pole.

10. BABY YODA! Or maybe Yoda’s nephew…or something! Because Yoda people have mitichlorians teeming in their blood! Let’s catch a baby and CLONE HIM! Because clones will always make the same decisions and be the same personality as their source! And they’ll always be Force sentient!

I mean, come guys! Snap out of it! They have you in a spell! An evil Disney spell! They’re trying to sell you Baby Yodas at the theme parks! I promise you, this is terrible! Don’t make me burn you with the torch.

digitalfreaknyc said:

That’s exactly what he said. How should I take it any differently?

Because you’re being too literal.

DominicCobb said:

Well are you? Do you really think Johnson is going to direct his film towards 5-10 year olds?

Well, in my mind, that’s what’s great about Rogue One – it’s changed the discussion. It’s changing fan expectations. All in extremely good ways.

Rogue One is a home run. It’s a spectacular film. A game changer. My only criticism is the music score. It was good but not great. Other than that, I could not have asked for a better Star Wars film. Third-best film in the franchise, easily.

digitalfreaknyc said:

Lord Haseo said:

That type of thinking can enable me to poke a million hopes in the OT as it suffers from that type of writing too. Even if those films didn’t have shit like that in them you’re overthinking it. It’s a chaotic encounter in a narrow, dark hallway. Vader was probably fixated on blast deflection and just trying to kill everyone instead of devoting useful mental resources to think about one Rebel.

So…he was just trying to kill everyone? Not get the plans? And that’s why he stares at the Tantive IV as it takes off? Because he didn’t get to kill more people?

Riiiiiiight.

Damn, dude. Please tell me you don’t really think that’s what Haseo is saying, right?

Double post. Sorry.

TV’s Frink said:

You already thought TFA was irrelevant so your statement makes no sense. Anyone who liked TFA would not suddenly dislike it just because RO was also good.

You’re not comprehending the use of the word relevant in this particular context.

digitalfreaknyc said:

Give me the heart of Eps 4-7 on the regular and I’ll be very, very happy.

What the hell does “heart” even mean, anyway? Post a vague, eye-of-the-beholder rationale for liking or disliking a movie?

digitalfreaknyc said:

Yeah ok. Good luck with that. RO will make a percentage of what TFA did, which was all because of repeat business and the OT actors.

Agree. TFA made money because of the cheap trick of injecting the OT actors into the movie, not because the movie was actually good.

If the movie sucked people wouldn’t have come back to it.

Argumentum ad populum.

And, btw, reviews for TFA are better than RO.

Moving target. The audience score on Rotten Tomatoes is 89% for TFA, 90% for RO.

There’s MUCH more “heart” in TFA than there is in RO and you care a helluva lot more about the characters.

Couldn’t possibly disagree with you more.

TV’s Frink said:

Watching TFA last year and RO this year have made the PT even more irrelevant in my mind because they’ve hammered home how poorly executed the PT is.

RO also renders TFA irrelevant. The reality for the fan base hasn’t fully burned in yet, but RO has grabbed the reins of the SW franchise and jammed it back on track. It’s a coup. In the end, Disney is going to have to rethink the direction of episodes 8 and 9 based on the sensational execution of RO.

joefavs said:

I feel exactly the same way. This film and Rebels work so well as connective tissue that the PT feels much more relevant than it ever has for me.

I’m not sure I see it that way. To me, this movie has accomplished the exact opposite – it has rendered the prequels irrelevant. Vader floating in the bacta in a black castle somewhere completely expunges the awful vision of Hayden Christensen and his “I hate you!” and the “Noooooooooo!”

Vader is wrapped back up in his veil of mystery. Shrouded by fog and only-on-the-screen-for-two-seconds camera angles.

DominicCobb said:

I’m curious where you think Episodes 2 and 3 would fit in before 4.

In the garbage.

The new Star Wars canon should be this: RO, ANH, TESB, ROTJ.

The end.

“Rogue One” was absolutely sensational.

Damn how I wish TFA was never made and this movie be the first Disney release. Think of the possibilities!

Gareth Edwards is the new George Lucas. The reins of the franchise need to be handed over to him.

I don’t have the words to express how awesome this movie was. I am sad that Disney chose to market this film as an anthology and as standalone. There is nothing “standalone” about it. It’s the new Episode 1.

ZkinandBonez said:
If you go from a OT purist perspective then yes, her sudden appearance in ROTJ s kinda weird, but in the whole franchise that’s developed since, there’s plenty to choose from.

I may well be the most annoying OT purist you’ll ever meet and I have absolutely no problem with Mon Mothma suddenly appearing in ROTJ.

ZkinandBonez said:

Didn’t Leia say that she had an adoptive mother in the ROTJ novel? Or do I remember that wrong?

It’s mentioned in the original film. Luke: “Leia… do you remember your mother? Your real mother?”

ZkinandBonez said:

Keep in mind that there are many factions of the Rebel Alliance, so I don’t see why she has to be everywhere Luke, Leia, Han, etc. is.

I have to point out that this is not true in the original movies. I suppose this might be suggested in the EU stuff, but in the original 1977 film, the Empire is attempting to find one hidden Rebel base and Darth Vader is confident that destroying that one base will result in the end of the Rebellion.

ZkinandBonez said:

Smoking Lizard said:

Never mind the fact that according to the original ROTJ script, Mon Mothma was never mentioned as being a member of the Imperial Senate.

Mon Mothma’s character hadn’t even been created during the production of ANH, so I hardly see how that has any impact on a prequel movie made in 2016.

It’s irrelevant what year the script is written. I’m simply saying that in order for the 2016 script to be consistent with the 1983 script, you have to be able to explain why Mon Mothma appears to be in a leadership role in events prior to the 1977 script.

(And as a somewhat relevant side-note, she was part of the Republic Senate in the PT and Clone Wars series which is part of the DisneyEU, so it’s not improbable that her role as an Imperial Senate member will be re-canonized)

That’s a good point. I must concede that I very often forget that the PT is canon and, frankly, I had forgotten her character appears in one of those prequel films.

So you say she was a senator in the PT? If that’s the case, then her timeline must be something like this:

1. Is in the Republic Senate.

2. Gets involved with the Rebellion. Presumably she becomes a leader of the Rebellion of some sort.

3. Commissions spies to intercept the Death Star plans.

4. Disappears roughly at that point from the events of ANH and TESB.

5. Returns somehow in ROTJ as the leader of the Rebellion.

Lord Haseo said:

You’re still ignoring the fact that it wasn’t explained in ROTJ as to why she wasn’t in STAR WARS or ESB. So why should another film have to pick up the slack because the OT had so so writing in that department?

It’s a very simple explanation – Mon Mothma has assumed the leadership role of the Rebel Alliance sometime between TESB and ROTJ.

yotsuya said:
As for Mon Mothma, they don’t really need to explain anything.

For the story to make sense and not be sloppy writing like the prequels and TFA, they do.

She appears to be on the 4th moon of Yavin in RO and she was not there by the time the Millenium Falcon landed. There is quite a bit of time in between that includes the Emperor disolving the Senate and the destruction of Alderaan, not to mention the success of the the plot to steal the Death Star plans.

Where is she during the attack on the Death Star? It’s the Rebellion’s most crucial hour and she’s leading some futile protest of the dissolution of the Senate?

Never mind the fact that according to the original ROTJ script, Mon Mothma was never mentioned as being a member of the Imperial Senate.

Where was she during the medal ceremony? Luke, Han, Chewie, and, I suppose Wedge, just saved the entire galaxy and the entire Rebellion and she’s not present?

Where was she on Hoth?

She likely couldn’t just hide out at the rebel base and needed to get back to work.

Get back to work doing what?

ZkinandBonez said:

Well, this film does take place before the attack on the Death Star. So there are plenty of potentially good explanations for why Mon Mothma would be on Yavin IV for a scene in RO, but not during the events of ANH.

Right. And that’s why I’m hoping that this movie will somehow logically explain her presence in this storyline when she does not appear in ANH or TESB. If it’s logical, fine. I’m all in. But if they just add her so that we have another familiar face for nostalgia reasons, well, that’s BS.

Mithrandir said:

Maybe she leaves to Coruscant after the battle. Maybe she’s requested for an emergency session of the Imperial Senate where some good old Emperor decides that due to the Empire being attacked it is about time to dissolve the Congress. Maybe.

The Emperor dissolved the Senate before the attack on the Death Star.

But that’s just what I would have done to solve the continuity issue. Perhaps they just do not care.

This. You are probably correct.

Tobar said:

Mon Mothma’s been a founding member of the Rebel Alliance for as long as there’s been an expanded universe.

True. Thankfully, Disney expunged the expanded universe, so they still need a logical explanation for the inclusion of Mon Mothma in this timeline. And by “need” I mean they need a logical explanation so that the story makes sense, if they care about that at all anymore.

Please try to remember it’s a Rebel Alliance. It’s made up of a lot of different cells across the galaxy. Mothma was probably running a different division before they were all united in ROTJ.

This is not correct. In the original 1977 movie, the Empire is very clearly obsessed with finding the hidden Rebel base. Base. Singular. Not bases. See here: “This will be a day long remembered. It has seen the end of Kenobi, it will soon see the end of the Rebellion.” - Darth Vader.

Unless, that is, there were other Rebel bases that Vader and the rest of the Empire were not aware of…and that existed despite not being mentioned in the original movies or scripts.

That_OT_Ruler said:

Looks WAY better than anything from The Force Awakens. I can excuse any use of nostalgia factor, because this movie does take place at the time of A New Hope. It’s different than just recycling ideas and making another Death Star. I’m excited for it! Gareth Edwards did an absolutely fantastic job with the 2014 Godzilla, and the shot of the Death Star casting a shadow on the Star Destroyers is just amazing. Really looking forward to his direction and seeing a real Star Wars movie.

Agree. It does look a heeeeeeeell of a lot better than TFA. I am willing to overlook the Mon Mothma break in continuity.

Bingowings said:

She was in ROTS played by the same actress wearing different clothes.

The prequel trilogy is stupid.

Again, I suppose there’s some “logical” explanation why Mon Mothma does not appear at the Death Star attack run briefing, does not appear as the attack on the Death Star is unfolding, does not appear at the medal ceremony, does not appear anywhere on Hoth…

But now, hey! She’s hanging out in a leadership role in the Rebel alliance in a movie scene that predates the 1977 movie.

Disney did not waste any money on continuity experts.

Obi Wan wore the same clothes for six movies (even when he was meant to be on the run under a slightly assumed name).

The prequel trilogy is stupid.