Smoking Lizard

DuracellEnergizer said:

You do realize I’m gonna have to swallow your soul now, right?

That’s OK. I speak many blasphemies.

TavorX said:

Still, since old EU is scrapped, it’s not difficult to imagine that saber fell into a random air chute…

Right. Then the vent opened up and the lightsaber fell out like Luke did and then fell to the core of the planet and melted.

DuracellEnergizer said:

Calling the Thrawn Trilogy tripe?

Good God, yes. Thrawn Trilogy = As Bad as The Phantom Menace.

TV’s Frink said:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Anakin_Skywalker’s_second_lightsaber

Shortly after this, Luke carried the weapon with him to the Cloud City on Bespin in a bid to rescue his friends from Darth Vader. Engaging the Sith Lord in a lightsaber duel, Luke demonstrated his vastly increased skill with the weapon, impressing its former wielder. Ultimately, however, Luke’s lightsaber hand was sliced off by Vader and fell, along with the lightsaber it carried, into the depths of Cloud City.[17]

The lightsaber, still clutched by Luke Skywalker’s hand, had become lodged in one of Cloud City’s lower air shafts and eventually was recovered by a maintenance drone. The drone deposited the hand and the lightsaber in Smelting Core D. There, it was discovered by Groggin, the Smelting Core’s supervisor.

In addition (and more importantly), I just watched the scene and there’s nothing to suggest the lightsaber fell out with him. There were even multiple shafts at the bottom so it could have fallen into any of those.

Next topic.

Clever attempt at a selective cut & paste. Let’s scroll down some more and copy more of your “source” wiki article:

Engaging the Sith Lord in a lightsaber duel, Luke demonstrated his vastly increased skill with the weapon, impressing its former wielder. Ultimately, however, Luke’s lightsaber hand was sliced off by Vader and fell, along with the lightsaber it carried, into the depths of Cloud City.[17]
The Emperor’s trophy (3–9 ABY)Edit
The lightsaber, still clutched by Luke Skywalker’s hand, had become lodged in one of Cloud City’s lower air shafts and eventually was recovered by a maintenance drone. The drone deposited the hand and the lightsaber in Smelting Core D. There, it was discovered by Groggin, the Smelting Core’s supervisor.

Groggin had no use for the hand and decided to have it incinerated while he would keep the lightsaber, which he planned to melt down. However, the arrival of Darth Vader in the smelting facility prevented Groggin from taking such action. After a round of aggressive negotiations, Vader left the facility with the hand and the lightsaber in his possession. Though he had other plans for the hand and the lightsaber in mind, Vader was compelled by Palpatine to bring the two items to the Mount Tantiss storehouse on Wayland. There, the Emperor made Vader turn Skywalker’s hand and lightsaber over to him.

Six years later, the mad Jedi clone Joruus C’baoth ordered that a clone of Luke be produced from the limb, and that he be armed with Anakin’s old weapon. When Skywalker arrived, leading a New Republic strike team to destroy the cloning tanks of Wayland, he was forced to fight the clone, which was being controlled by C’baoth. It was ultimately killed by Mara Jade who then used Anakin’s old saber to kill C’baoth himself. Upon the team’s return to Coruscant, Luke presented her with the weapon as a gift.

So we go from canon to EU tripe. And we all know the EU was jettisoned (thankfully) by Disney.

Bingowings said:

Is Bespin a gas giant?
I thought it was just rich in a gas that was mined there.
It’s certainly got a breathable atmosphere (unless there is some sort of protective bubble around the city.

From StarWars.com:

An immense gas giant surrounded by a number of moons, the planet contains a band of habitable atmosphere among its endless clouds. In this stratum of life, enterprising prospectors have established floating mining complexes devoted to extracting valuable gasses from deep within the planet. The most well known of these ventures is the opulent Cloud City, formerly under the administration of Lando Calrissian. During the tail end of the Galactic Civil War, the Empire garrisoned Bespin and took over Cloud City, though the outpost and the planet enjoyed freedom after the defeat of the Emperor at the Battle of Endor.

SilverWook said:

Also, we don’t know when exactly when Luke’s old saber was found. Probably after he left. Lightsabers, (and the skills to make them) are a rare thing in the galaxy, so whoever found it on Bespin probably tried to sell it.

Let’s think this through, here. Luke drops his lightsaber on a gas giant planet, one very much like the planet Jupiter or Saturn. So it would fall and fall and fall until it hit the planet’s solid surface…

…which is as hot as the surface of the sun!

So how, exactly, did the lightsaber survive? Never mind, for now, how Maz got it.

I know, I know…it’s fantasy. Anything is allowed now in Star Wars. Anything at all. To explain anything, just say, “The Force,” “It’s a movie,” or, “It’s different than our universe.”

TavorX said:

Smoking Lizard said:
No. I never said that and I never implied it. But Luke most certainly would have. If you object to the word “certainly” then put it this way: It is far more likely that Luke would have told everyone his father’s story than not.

Curious, but why do you think so? I ask because I’ve been thinking about this and I lean more towards him not. Luke to me is not the kind of hero to boast about his adventure and how he heroically vanquished evil/redeemed his father. I think back to the scene in ROTJ where he burns his father’s remains… alone. Why didn’t he have at least Leia, his sister, join him for the Vader bonfire?

Also, I think Luke would had been proud to say, in an alternative universe, he killed Vader if say Vader wasn’t his father or didn’t know Vader was his father. However, since Luke learned that Vader was his father, it’s something that struck him more emotionally. I mean, would you be proud to tell someone your father was some criminal? Someone whom was greatly feared and hated for unspeakable crimes against humanity?

Finally, Luke only told Leia who their father was. Luke told no one else. Leia told no one else except for the fact to Han that Luke and her are siblings. To me, this was a secret formed between Luke and Leia regarding Vader. Luke may have matured a lot over the trilogy, but doesn’t mean he’s not without flaws, and perhaps him being not open about his confrontation with his father is one of them.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Lord Haseo said:

Are you implying that literally ALL heroic deeds are documented? Puh…lease.

No. I never said that and I never implied it. But Luke most certainly would have. If you object to the word “certainly” then put it this way: It is far more likely that Luke would have told everyone his father’s story than not.

Virtually every living historian agrees that Hitler committed suicide, but the only evidence we have is the testimony of a handful of witnesses. And that’s with those witnesses lying and trying to tell the world that Hitler did not commit suicide. It wasn’t until after Germany surrendered that the Nazis came clean.

You literally just killed your own argument. Witnesses are unreliable. Even if Luke made it public knowledge how would you know he’s telling the truth if you live in that Universe?

No I did not. I proved it. You attempted this argument: “Witnesses are unreliable.”

But you believe that Hitler committed suicide, DO YOU NOT?! If you personally believe that Hitler committed suicide, think about it, your “witnesses are unreliable” claim immediately falls apart.

Instead of trying to disprove the analogy, instead, if you would, open your mind and ask yourself, “OK, why is his analogy good? Why does it make sense?” If you do that earnestly, sincerely, with a fully open mind the analogy will make sense to you. But if you dig in your heels and refuse to see it, well, of course you never will.

Maybe I’m just too cynical but I can understand why Kylo could dismiss such a baseless claim.

Baseless? Think about what you’re saying. Clearly Ren was a child once, right? Presumably a normal child. Logically, his mother Leia, his uncle Luke, his father Han, his droid C3PO, and perhaps even his father’s best friend Lando would have all told young Ren about Anakin’s redemption. It’s just common sense. So all his family members would tell him this and then you conclude that he would dismiss them as “baseless”?

“Search your feelings, Luke, you know it to be true.”

So if Ren had any doubts that Luke was telling him the truth about Anakin, all Ren had to do was search his own feelings through the Force and then he’d know that what Luke was telling him was the truth.

Anyway, it’s been a very engaging, lively discussion. Thanks!

Lord Haseo said:

This is all your interpretation but not even the scripts says that R2 piloted it.

Agree. It’s not in the scripts, but it is in the radio drama. So I suppose it depends on whether we’re confining the discussion to the films or to the original canon.

Even so, the explanation is plausible. It’s perfectly plausible that R2 piloted the pod. So R2 landing so close to Obi Wan is not a “eye roll” moment like the crashed TIE fighter is.

Why? Sure, there were probably other sandcrawlers, but the Jawas logically broke up the territory into different patrol zones. “You guys search west of the dragon bones, we’ll search the east side. We’ll meet up at lunchtime.” Again, in no way does this even stretch the imagination. It’s a perfectly reasonable explanation.

…something like that isn’t even something common sense can account for.

Good God…how not? Now I think you’re just being coy. It’s absolutely 100% plausible that the Jawas in a mechanized transport could easily catch both R2 and C3PO, especially considering C3PO walks at 2 miles per hour and was walking on a wide open expanse of desert. I mean, come on.

Sure, it’s a nitpick. That’s what the debate is about.

It is? I thought it was a debate over how the sort of absurd conveniences in TFA are also in ANH?

I don’t deny that. I couldn’t see why he would omit that.

Right. So clearly my critiques on these points do not indicate that I did not comprehend the film, as you claimed.

Which of course implies that he made the fact that Darth Vader turned good again public knowledge.

Again, come on. For real? Are you really suggesting that Luke would have any reason at all to not make this public? Such a grand story, such grand evidence of how good triumphed over evil, such a grand story of how his own father was redeemed. And Luke would keep that private? Puh…lease.

If anything he would tell Leia and rest of the crew but no one else with the exception of his future students…

Again, why would he keep that private?! If someone does something heroic, why keep that private?! Do we keep the stories of our Medal of Honor war heroes private? Good God, no. No. We publicize them and celebrate and honor their heroism. This is just getting silly and argumentative.

I think the photos and videos of Berlin being bombed to oblivion should be sufficient to sway anyone that the Nazis lost. Darth Vader betraying Palpatine is something that happened in an enclosed space and as only witnessed by 3 people. Terrible analogy.

It’s an absolute perfect analogy, if you just think about it. We accept history even though we weren’t there to witness it. You want a more refined analogy? Fine. You accept that Hitler committed suicide, yes? Virtually every living historian agrees that Hitler committed suicide, but the only evidence we have is the testimony of a handful of witnesses. And that’s with those witnesses lying and trying to tell the world that Hitler did not commit suicide. It wasn’t until after Germany surrendered that the Nazis came clean.

When Darth Vader turned to the light 2/3 of the people there died. If Luke didn’t tell anyone it would die with him.

Again, there is absolutely no logical reason for Luke to have kept that a secret; on the contrary, he would have told the entire galaxy the story of the triumph of good over evil.

Lord Haseo said:

That would be cool if it didn’t look like the escape pod was in freefall.

That’s the basic way space flight works. You propel yourself forward and then allow inertia to take you in the general direction you want to go. Then, when you approach your target, THEN you engage your navigation to fine tune your landing. It’s like allowing your car to coast to the stop sign instead of pressing the gas all the way to the sign and then hitting the brakes at the last second to stop. Conserves fuel. That’s obvious what the film is portraying there.

Still kind of a stretch that in all that time there were no other sandcrawler’s around.

Why? Sure, there were probably other sandcrawlers, but the Jawas logically broke up the territory into different patrol zones. “You guys search west of the dragon bones, we’ll search the east side. We’ll meet up at lunchtime.” Again, in no way does this even stretch the imagination. It’s a perfectly reasonable explanation.

R2D2 and C3P0 crash on Tatooine - R2 and C3P0 split up - Both are captured by the same Jawas - C3P0 and red Astromech are sold to Owen and Beru - Red Astromech blows up because convenience and R2 is then sold in it’s place…

If R2 and C3PO just randomly crashed so close to Obi Wan, yes, I would agree with you – that would be overly convenient. That would be a consequential convenience. But they did not randomly crash. R2 piloted the escape pod.

And the red R2 unit getting picked first and how the two droids, as explained above, wound up on the same Sandcrawler are NOT consequential, because the movie would have wound up the same way either way.

Second, can you explain to me how these two observations of mine somehow suggest that I did not comprehend TFA? Because I see it the other way around – that because I comprehended TFA, I was able to make these observations.

So in 30 years Luke trained ZERO new Jedis? Ren somehow killed them ALL?!

It was blatantly said that Luke had an academy and everything went to shit. Then there’s a Force Flashback which shows the aftermath of the destruction.

Right. That’s exactly what I said in my observation. We’re supposed to believe that Ren killed ALL of the new Jedi that Luke trained over a 30 year period?! ALL of them?! Ren couldn’t even defeat Rey, an untrained Jedi, but he killed ALL of Luke’s Jedi? I mean, Luke had 30 years! How many high school students does a high school teacher teach over 30 years? Granted, it probably it takes longer to train a new jedi than teach a high school kid, but still. Not to mention that once Luke trained his first batch of students, some of them would begin taking on students of their own. Come on. Overly convenient.

So Kylo Ren is Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader’s grandson? Kylo Ren, in private, “prays” to his grandfather to “show him the way” to resist the pull of the light side of the Force. Um, hello? Anakin Skywalker is probably the WORST person to ask for advice on how to resist the light side?

If Kylo Ren still idolizes Vader after what he did he either isn’t privy to the fact that Vader turned back to the light…

Luke most certainly would have told him!

Ren: “Uncle Luke, thanks for agreeing to train me as a Jedi. I’m excited. By the way, how did you defeat the Emperor?”

Luke: “Oh, that. Your grandfather, my father, Anakin, who was Darth Vader, saw the Emperor trying to kill me and stopped him. He grabbed him and threw him down a shaft.”

or he simply refuses to believe that such a thing would happen…

Why wouldn’t he? The Empire fell, yes? The Emperor is dead, yes? Surely there has to be an explanation. In fact, it would probably be a basic lesson in all the elementary schools in the galaxy. Every kid would learn the history of how the Empire was defeated, just like how you and I learned how the Allies defeated the Nazis. Were we there to witness it? No. Do we believe it happened? Yes.

Now…is it possible Snoke convinced Ren that Vader never turned back to the light? Sure. Is it plausible? It’s ridiculous.

How hadn’t this thought occured to you?

Of course that thought has occurred to me, but that thought is illogical for the reasons I listed above, so my mind rejects it.

Lord Haseo said:

1. R2 and C3P0 happen to land somewhere conveniently on the side of the planet where Luke is

R2 piloted the escape pod to the location Leia told him to go. The escape pod was navigable, unlike the TIE fighter Poe and Finn were in in TFA

That was never established in the film. Nice rationalization though.

I don’t want to sound argumentative, but basic inference is permitted in any movie. It’s perfectly logical that the escape pod should be able to be steered. Even the life boats on the Titanic could be steered. Life rafts can be steered. Considering an escape pod on a space ship would take its passengers into deep space, it only makes sense that someone should be able to steer it.

I know, I know – but R2 didn’t say out loud, “I’m piloting the escape pod!”, so in your mind the idea of a steerable escape pod is not allowed.

2. Then later when they’re separated they somehow conveniently meet up on the sandcrawler so they can be sold to Owen and Beru.

They didn’t conveniently “meet up.” The Jawas are scavengers. It’s what they do. All day long. Considering how slow C3PO walks and the rocky terrain, the two droids were not far apart. Not a stretch at all, considering how close the droids were to each other and considering the fact that C3PO actually called the Sandcrawler to him. Moreover this is an inconsequential convenience, like the one below. More storytelling than plot. The droids didn’t have to separate. That was just story telling.

Those aren’t the only Jawa’s on the planet that scavenge. The fact that parallel opposite directions and still end up on the SAME sandcrawler is convnient. There’s no way around that.

No way around it? I already explained it. Considering the fact the C3PO literally walks at a pace of about 2 miles per hour, he and R2 were likely at most 4 or 5 miles apart. So the Jawas are out, looking for scrap, and C3PO sees them in the distance and calls out to them. It’s the Jawas’ lucky day. After they pick up C3PO, they continue their route and, as luck would have it, they find R2, who wasn’t that far away. Damn, dude, that’s not that hard to imagine.

Also I wouldn’t exactly call them inconsequential because those are things that push the plot forward.

No, they don’t. These two story elements do not push the plot forward at all. They are not necessary to push the plot along. Think about it: In the movie, the droids part ways, then get captured separately by the same Jawas. The other way Lucas could have done this is just not have the droids part ways and then they get caught together. The end result is the same – they’re in the same Sandcrawler. So yes, the “convenience” is inconsequential.

Also seeing as how you said

[Smoking Lizard said:]
So in 30 years Luke trained ZERO new Jedis? Ren somehow killed them ALL?!

and

[Smoking Lizard said:]
So Kylo Ren is Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader’s grandson? Kylo Ren, in private, “prays” to his grandfather to “show him the way” to resist the pull of the light side of the Force. Um, hello? Anakin Skywalker is probably the WORST person to ask for advice on how to resist the light side?

I’d be weary of calling anyone out on comprehending the film.

First, you did mean “wary,” right?

Second, can you explain to me how these two observations of mine somehow suggest that I did not comprehend TFA? Because I see it the other way around – that because I comprehended TFA, I was able to make these observations.

But I could be wrong. Maybe you have something else in mind? Maybe there was something I missed? Please explain. I’m interested in reading you thoughts on this, as it’s an interesting element of TFA that would probably be fun to discuss.

Guys, there is a difference between TFA and ANH, as far as the quality of the stories and plot are concerned.

We all know STAR WARS is the superior film on paper, but it still not prefect and suffers from some of the same issues TFA has.

Not by a long shot. Are there moments in ANH where you have to give Lucas a pass? Sure. Of course. But those are nickels and dimes compared to the absurdities of TFA.

TV’s Frink said:

I’m reposting this here because it will be fun watching some of you try to explain it away or insist it’s not the same thing.

Lord Haseo said:

RicOlie_2 said:

It isn’t the existence of those that bothers me, it’s the number and density of them at the beginning of TFA that I disliked. Had they been more spread out, and/or with a couple of them feeling less coincidental, it would have been far better.

STAR WARS had a lot of plot conveniences

1. R2 and C3P0 happen to land somewhere conveniently on the side of the planet where Luke is

R2 piloted the escape pod to the location Leia told him to go. The escape pod was navigable, unlike the TIE fighter Poe and Finn were in in TFA, where the TIE fighter was shot and crash landed on Jakku.

2. Then later when they’re separated they somehow conveniently meet up on the sandcrawler so they can be sold to Owen and Beru.

They didn’t conveniently “meet up.” The Jawas are scavengers. It’s what they do. All day long. Considering how slow C3PO walks and the rocky terrain, the two droids were not far apart. Not a stretch at all, considering how close the droids were to each other and considering the fact that C3PO actually called the Sandcrawler to him. Moreover this is an inconsequential convenience, like the one below. More storytelling than plot. The droids didn’t have to separate. That was just story telling.

3. Then the other Astromech poops out conveniently so that R2 can be purchased

An inconsequential convenience, like the one above. More part of the story than the plot. The “convenience” could be quickly undone by the director or script writer simply telling the actor to buy R2 and not the red droid first and you wind up with the same result.

4. Then Luke somehow conveniently finds part of Leia’s message while cleaning R2

Did this person actually watch ANH? R2 deliberately showed Luke an innocuous piece of the message to trick Luke into removing the restraining bolt from R2 so R2 could escape uncle Owen’s farm and continue his mission.

and this doesn’t necessarily bother me because it’s just one of those things that has always been in Star Wars.

Guys, there is a difference between TFA and ANH, as far as the quality of the stories and plot are concerned. But to see the difference, you have to have an earnest, open mind and just allow the evidence to take you wherever it leads.

imperialscum said:

That is pretty much the opposite as it should be. Establishing a weak villain is a bullet in a knee for a film. If he kicked their asses and “sent” them back home training, it would at least add some motive to the story/characters.

Very well put. I’m reminded of a great quote by Alfred Hitchcock: “The more successful the villain, the more successful the picture.”

But in fairness, I suppose that rule doesn’t apply to Star Wars. Star Wars has established that pretty much anything with the Star Wars logo on it will make money.

SpilkaBilka said:

You keep saying this, but WHY is it absurd? Is it so unreasonable to believe that it was so important for the map to not fall into the hands of the enemy, that they decided to use a courier to retrieve that information? Like, maybe the FO could intercept the transmission and then they’d be able to find and kill Luke? Maybe Max von Sydow doesn’t have the capability/expertise to send encrypted transmissions to the Resistance?

Right. I don’t think you understand my point, and that’s my fault for not being more clear. Allow me illustrate with an example:

1. There is some piece of intelligence information President Obama needs. The information is being held by someone in, say, wherever, let’s say Iraq, just for the sake of the discussion.

2. How do you get the information? Well, you first consider some sort of encrypted electronic transmission on a secure channel. But let’s suppose for the sake of the discussion that that’s not possible, for whatever reason.

3. President Obama does not want our enemies to find out we’re coming to get this information, or, for that matter, that the guy in Iraq even has it.

4. So now President Obama needs to send someone to retrieve the information. So…would he send his best F-16 fighter pilot in an F-16, wearing an American F-16 flight suit?!? No! Of course not! He’d send some intelligence operative under deep cover. Now granted, fine, I get that maybe Poe changed his clothes before going to Von Sydow…but him flying there in an X-Wing alone is silly. An X-Wing would stick out like a sore thumb. Instead, someone would be quietly sent, someone totally unassuming and average looking, probably arriving on a standard commercial flight. He’d quietly meet with the guy in Iraq in some innocuous place like a bar or bowling alley, receive the information on the sly, and then fly back to Washington on a commercial flight. The enemy would never even know that a courier had been sent and the information had already changed hands and arrived back in Washington.

“The Defense Courier Service (DCS) is established under the United States Transportation Command (USTRANSCOM), and is a global courier network for the expeditious, cost-effective, and secure distribution of highly classified and sensitive material.”

Just FYI: I’ve worked for the Department of Defense for the past 25 years. Trust me, the way I described above is the way it would work. DoD does not dispatch DCS to receive intelligence from secret operatives in foreign locations. That’s not the way it works.

ZkinandBonez said:

I think details such as the TIE pilots having spacesuits on comes down to two things;

1. Suspension of disbelief. Even in something has scientifically illogical as SW there’s a requirement for certain familiar imagery since the setting is already recognizable as sci-fi. However since it’s not really important, they manage to stretch that logic in the scenes where it’s more obviously fantasy/myth inspired, e.g. the space-slug, anything Force related, etc.

2. Aesthetics. Like I’ve said before SW seems to often just goes for what looks cool and interesting. Also it’s important, especially for the kids, that the stormtroopers remain faceless, both to make their deaths seem less violent and for its symbolic value. And since there’s not much reason for someone to wear their armour inside a fighter, the Rebels simply wear helmets after all (even though a space suits would make more scientific sense, but they’re mirroring WWII fighter planes not real space travel), they simply added a space-suit-armour allowing them to make even the TIE pilots as faceless as all the other Imperial grunts.

I do see your point there. It’s well thought out. I especially agree with you on the notion of making the bad guys being faceless – it makes it easier for the audience when they are killed and it makes them look more menacing.

Still, however, I think space fantasy has its limits. Humans floating about the vacuum of space goes over the line, in my mind.

Doggone it. Double post.

Ryan McAvoy said:

It’s really difficult to feel “outraged” when you’ve been force-fed excrement for 18 years and somebody suddenly takes it away and gives you a juicy cheeseburger. Sure it’s maybe not quite the prime steak you remember eating back before the enforced sh*t eating began, but you sure feel grateful nonetheless.

I see your point. That is a very good point. I suppose that’s where I differ from most fans – most fans, I think, see TFA being a step up from the PT, whereas I see it as being just as bad.

hydrospanner said:

Smoking Lizard said:

Absolutely. Remake, retread, reboot, carbon copy, whatever term you want to call it, it’s just a fan service ripoff of ANH. That’s just a given. If anyone says they don’t see it, well, there may be some cognitive dissonance at work.

I am shocked there is not more fan outrage over this.

How is TFA a remake or a reboot exactly? It looks like a sequel to me.

Smoking Lizard said:Remake, retread, reboot, carbon copy, whatever term you want to call it, it’s just a fan service ripoff of ANH.

TV’s Frink said:

Irritation is in the leg of the beholder.

And I’m sorry if you don’t understand this, but most of that list is not opinion. It’s either extreme nitpicking, a lack of awareness, or just being flat-out wrong (see the “uniform” complaint in the very first point).

Emphasis added to the word “nitpicking.” I’ll come back to that below.

It’s either extreme nitpicking, a lack of awareness, or just being flat-out wrong (see the “uniform” complaint in the very first point).

I guess the irony here is that you are literally nitpicking my critique. Like pointing out the fact that Poe Dameron wasn’t in uniform. Maybe I was wrong about that one detail. But you’re using being mistaken about one detail as a conflated attempt to discredit the entire bullet. The point stands – it’s laughably absurd for a military general to send a combat fighter pilot to retrieve a piece of intelligence. Absurd. If you can’t or won’t agree on that or see that, well, we’ll just have to agree to disagree on that point. But seriously, I think there’s no real argument there. That point of the movie was just silly.

And I’m sorry if I missed it – did Poe not wear his X-wing flight suit and flight helmet when he flew his X-wing from the Resistance planet to Jakku? I thought he did. I could be wrong.

…a lack of awareness…

My “lack of awareness” or, perhaps better stated, my brain’s refusal to accept, is what involves a bunch of ad hoc rationalizations to explain away the movie’s glaring absurdities.

That_OT_Ruler said:

The definition of nitpicking for one person might be very different from someone else’s. I’ve encountered tons of fanboys in the past week or so, and whenever I bring up that the movie is a remake of A New Hope, they say I’m nitpicking.

Exactly. I’ve noticed that this word “nitpicking” has become extremely popular amongst Star Wars fans now that TFA has been released. Any critique is a “nitpick.”

That_OT_Ruler said:

…whenever I bring up that the movie is a remake of A New Hope, they say I’m nitpicking…

Absolutely. Remake, retread, reboot, carbon copy, whatever term you want to call it, it’s just a fan service ripoff of ANH. That’s just a given. If anyone says they don’t see it, well, there may be some cognitive dissonance at work.

I am shocked there is not more fan outrage over this.

That_OT_Ruler said:

Also, am I invited for a beer?

Heck yeah! In my mind, anyone who likes Star Wars enough to hang around a discussion board is cool!

TV’s Frink said:

Frustration, mainly. I admit I should tone it down a bit, but your post really frustrated me to no end.

I’m not sure why. As you said yourself, it’s a discussion board. For fun. To discuss a silly movie.

I could be wrong, but it seems to me you very much enjoyed the movie and didn’t appreciate my harsh treatment of it. That’s understandable. I have to be honest here though, dude – I think you’re employing an extreme amount of ad hoc reasoning to debunk my review, which is fine; we all do it. I was doing it earlier in defense of ANH in that other thread. I hope I don’t sound too pretentious in saying that…it’s just my observation.

A lot of the points in my review were also rhetorical. Didn’t really require a response. It was intended as satire, which may or may not have been effective.

In the end, seriously, if you and I ever met in person, we’d probably enjoy a beer together and laugh about how bad TFA really was. Ha ha.

Also, my responses made my wife laugh.

She’s not invited for the beer.

TV’s Frink said:

Hell yes. Thank god it was a good movie.

My only question for you at this point is, is there some reason why you’re so unnecessarily hostile? Is it an attempt to be admired by others on the board? An ego thing? Maybe trying to appear witty? Would you treat someone you just met this way? It’s just so strange and unbecoming…I’d really like to understand why people often behave this way online. It’s an interesting phenomenon to me.

TV’s Frink said:

I don’t see how one affects the other. tehparadox is how you get the links. Jdownloader (and other options) are how you download the links. Once you have the links, you don’t need tehparadox anymore.

Good news. I think I may have it working. At your recommendation, I went to JDownloader.org and downloaded their version 2 of the software. Windows allowed it to install. Then I went to the “Can’t access tehParadox” instructions in the Google docs instruction guide and followed those instructions, and it seems to be working.

So far, so good. Thank you so much for your help. I’d really love to have an HD version of ANH without dinosaurs.

TV’s Frink said:

I use jdownloader2 with absolutely no problem. Do make sure you turn off / reject all add-ons.

Where did you get your copy from? The one I downloaded from the Google Doc guide is blocked by Windows 10.

And you don’t have to use jdownloader anyway. There are several other options to download the links.

Any recommendations?

FWIW I’ve had no problems with tehparadox either.

I’m sure I wouldn’t, either, if the moderators would approve my account. But…it looks like I have a way forward, if you can help me get the JDownloader to work.

Danfun128 said:

Smoking Lizard said:

Hey! Check it out! It’s the new Darth Vader with the guy from KISS!

…Odd, he doesn’t look ugly like he does in the movie. Still doesn’t seem like someone who could have been the child of Han and Leia though.

I wouldn’t be so hard on the guy to call him ugly, but he’s just not imposing.

Vader is imposing because the actor, David Prowse, was imposing. He carries himself with the upright heft of a very confident competitive bodybuilder. Adam Driver, meanwhile, carries himself like one of those extremely tall, lanky kids in high school who were not athletic enough to play basketball. Very, very strange casting choice.