RogueLeader

ray_afraid said:

ZkinandBonez said:

in the new canon even the crystals inside [the lightsabers] have gone from simple rocks to living crystals with force-related powers.

…Really?

Kyber crystals in the new canon are described as having organic properties, and are connected to the Force. So a crystal and a Force-user can be drawn together, almost like magnets. Honestly this isn’t really a stretch from what has been established, Yoda says the Force can flow through people, plants, even rocks.

For real. BroomKid, Dre, y’all are great and I think it is important that the community has these different perspectives and we can have actual conversations about them. If we all had the same opinion it wouldn’t be the same.

I think that is a fair view, basically an auteur theory perspective.

So, do you think it is possible for future films/shows made under Disney-Lucasfilm could be considered more artistic if the right artist came in and had enough creative freedom to create a unique, new story?

This gets into a big philosophical question but Star Wars is simultaneously both a work of art and a product. George wanted to tell interesting stories while simultaneously selling toys. That’s clear from the beginning, when Lucas bargained for full merchandising rights for the first film, which continued into the other films (what is that Lucas quote about Ewoks and Benji?) as well as the prequels. So are you saying the new films are more product and less art than George’s films, which were more art and less product? I think that’s splitting hairs, and a bit unfair to the new storytellers who might being in fact trying to tell interesting stories despite it still being a product.

EDIT: Is there a difference in the apparent legitimacy of the Disney-era films between a scenario where Disney takes Star Wars from Lucas’ cold, dead hands, and Lucas giving Star Wars to Disney with the knowledge they would continue the story without him?

The writer gives a story to another storyteller knowing they will continue that story without him. Is that consent irrelevant to the validity of the stories post-Author?

Well, if interviews with JJ and Kennedy recently are to be believed and Lucas was consulted for IX, then it is possible that he did okay it (it may have been his idea!). That may or may not be true, but it might be worth keeping an open mind until we learn more information regarding the development of the story and how much Lucas was involved. Like I’ve said before, I do wonder if there is a correlation between Lucas’ apparent involvement in the film and Palpatine’s sudden return.

I assumed he also meant keeping Vader standing on the bridge of his Star Destroyer as well.

EDIT: Jarbear, did you have a thread for you edit too? Wanted to see your change list!

I kind of like the idea of the Chosen One prophecy, but more so in a way that the Jedi’s obsession with prophecy is one of the flaws of their Order. Anakin being set up as a Christ-figure, only to become an anti-christ, is an interesting subversion of the chosen one trope that you rarely see. The prophecy being ambiguous and open to interpretation makes it far more interesting to me, in my opinion.

Thanks for resurrecting this thread! I am not sure if you are referring to jarbear’s videos specifically, or my changelist, or both, but I appreciate the thoughts.

I do think I’m going to pull back on a few more radical ideas. I like the idea of using the first-half of the Mustafar scene to set up Vader’s arrival at the end of the battle. Maybe I could give that servant new dialogue regarding Tarkin or the battle. Also, I think it would be helpful to replace Krennic’s shuttle with a regular Imperial shuttle that we see Vader use later in the film in those Mustafar establishing shots. Might be some extra work, but it would be like Vader’s shuttle coming down from the Devastator to pick up Vader and take him to Scarif. Then you could just change the dialogue to, “My lord, your shuttle has arrived.”

Regarding the disk, my original intention was to keep continuity with ANH when Vader says, “Several transmissions were beamed aboard this ship by rebel spies.” The plans being carried physically aboard seems to contradict that. If the viewer had never seen this scene before, I like to think they would still feel tension for the rebels being able to make it off the stranded ship in time, or if the other ship could escape before Vader boards it. But, it seems a lot of people feel the tension would be lost altogether without the disk element, so maybe it is a contradiction we’ll have to live with?

I’m also curious whether or not I should still deemphasize Galen actually “laying a trap” within the Death Star’s design, and if that undermines Luke’s impossible shot at the end of ANH. There seems to be fair arguments for and against.

But really, all these things are not the most important changes I want to make. Instead, it is characterization and dramatic arcs that I want to focus on, but I am still curious if these changes were worth the trouble to maintain continuity with the original Star Wars. Maybe people have better ideas to make the two films more cohesive than I have suggested.

What?! EC Henry IS Aalenfae?? I remember when I first stumbled across the fan editing community here and discovered aalenfae’s edit videos on Vimeo. He had some really great ideas that I think still inspire people on here. I’ve subscribed to EC for a few years now, and discovering that they’re the same person is just mind-blowing.

I don’t think he’s been on these threads since 2016 (I don’t know how I missed this post when he first made it), but it is great to know Aalenfae is still actively creating things (now in the form of his YouTube channel). Now that I know he has a fan-editing background, it would be interesting to hear if he has any new ideas for edits once IX releases.

You didn’t do anything wrong Tammer. To help clarify what you’re referring to, it helps to put what you’re quoting first, followed by your reply. And it helps to quote only the specific paragraph or sentences you’re commenting on rather the entire post as well.

The only idea I can think of to help support the ‘mask’ approach would be to change his appearance anytime Palpatine is disguised as Darth Sidious before the transformation. So when we see him with Maul on Coruscant in TPM, or with Dooku in AOTC, you could either desaturate his skin to be similar to his deformed look, or use deepfake technology to replace his regular face with the deformed face. It would be harder to implement this with hologram appearance (like his conversation with Grievous in ROTS or with Nute Gunray in TPM. Maybe you could obscure his entire face in darkness, or do something similar to what Ady did for ESB:R), but this idea could help make it clearer that Palpatine has always looked like that, but has just hid his true form with his ‘unlimited power’. But for LOE, I think it works fine and is still better than the theatrical, like Dom said. Might be something to consider in future edits though.

Yeah, I think Snoke wants to destroy the last remnants of the Jedi by destroying both the Last Jedi and the site of the first Jedi temple. End it where it all began. I don’t think it is really related to the caretakers, but I can see that being an added motivation for Rey to stop Snoke.

I assumed that particular island is significant to Snoke because it is the birthplace of the Jedi and site of the first Jedi Temple.

I like the attempt at the subtitles! I think the direction you’re taking is definitely a clever way to try to improve or support what is already there in the film. I do wonder if the audience would be confused by the Stormtrooper calling him a janitor, since it isn’t really touched on again until the third act. The way I understand it, Finn was a First Order/Stormtrooper ensign who was assigned to maintenance duty until he was promoted by Kylo Ren for whatever reason. Before the First Order was in any kind of conflict, I imagine a lot of their child-soldiers were being used as labor, so the logic makes sense to me. I just wonder, to a first-time viewer, if these additions would be more confusing than clarifying, you know? Like, is there enough context yet that connects all these little details? Because you’re still left wondering why Ren promoted him.

I wonder if Kylo’s line, “The one from the village, FN-2187” could be changed since in this version of events, Kylo would’ve been familiar with Finn before the village attack. You’re obviously pretty limited by available dialogue, but there might be a way you can alter this line to also help support this idea you have.

As far as the dialogue you’ve written, I think it sounds really good though. I can imagine hearing it and it fitting well.

EDIT: Maybe he could say, “Ren should have left you with the trash, like the captain wanted.” since, “let you rot in the trash” might be more ambiguous, like they wanted to kill him or something.

MalàStrana said:

I missed when Star Wars (from 1977 to 2005) were serious movies without irony that break the fourth wall.

This is why I think studios listening to fans can sometimes be a problem. Kennedy, Iger and Abrams were probably reluctant to use George’s treatments because of how poorly fans received the prequels (yeah, people still hated the prequels as recently as 2012), so they wanted to go in a different direction. But sentiment has changed and fans apparently love George Lucas and the prequels now, so after Carrie passed away and they had to scrap Trevorrow’s script entirely (assuming) to rewrite the story without Carrie, Abrams and Kennedy may have seen this as an opportunity to work with George and reestablish some of his ideas in order to please the new fan consensus and add legitimacy to the trilogy in the eyes of detractors. Personally, I don’t know how much they really care about this, but I can see a number of reasons why they would want to consult with George. But from an optics perspective it definitely wouldn’t hurt them either, not the same way it would’ve been seen only seven years ago.

I’ve started wondering if resurrecting Palpatine might have been in George’s original treatments. There is one particular piece of concept art in the TFA book that shows Darth Talon posing with a dark, ethereal figure standing over her (pg. 27). I wonder how much the artists knew about this “Uber” character beyond the him/it being powerful in the dark side that and pulling the strings from the shadows. It could be similar to how I think the Jedi Killer might have always been Han and Leia’s son, but it was kept secret for sometime before they told the artists, which has led some people to speculate that young Solo and Jedi Killer being different characters at some point during development.

Maybe the Talon-character was a servant of Palpatine, and was ordered by him to seduce the son of Han and Leia (Seduction 001-005, pg. 35). If IX reveals that Snoke was somehow a pawn of Palpatine, then Snoke may have been the merger of the ‘Uber’ and ‘Seducer’ characters, since Snoke functioned like Talon by seducing young Solo to the dark side.

There is another piece called Jedi Killer Contemplation, with this quote from one concept artist, Alzmann. “This was back when the MacGuffin was the melted helmet of Vader…” (pg. 79)

There’s also several pieces of the Death Star II submerged underwater, which we know they are bringing back into IX. Regarding one piece, Ian McCaig says, “So when the adventure is over, Kira finds a hidden map inside the Emperor’s tower of the second Death Star. And the map tells you where the Jedi are and where Luke is hiding.” (pg. 34). While the MacGuffin clearly evolved by this point, I can’t help but wonder if the importance of Vader’s helmet and the site of the Emperor’s “death” may have played some role involving Palpatine himself.

So let’s say that Abrams, Johnson and Kennedy weren’t 100% sure about bringing back Palpatine when producing TFA and TLJ, if the idea was at least there from the beginning, in the form of George’s treatments, then that might be why she is saying it was in the plans from the start (even though they obviously decided to diverge from his treatments while developing TFA).

But would George actually bring back Palpatine? It isn’t impossible. Tom Veitch, the writer of the Dark Empire comic, said the original antagonist of the story was going to be a Vader imposter, but George himself had him change it to the clone of Palpatine. So clearly Palpatine’s resurrection wasn’t blasphemy to even the creator.

While clearly context has changed significantly from when he first had the idea of Episodes 7-9, before 6 was released, he had the idea of 6 culminating in just a confrontation with Vader, and 7-9 being about Luke finding his long-lost sister and finally confronting the Emperor in Episode IX. It makes me think of early drafts of Star Wars, where the climax was reminiscent of ROTJ, where natives (Wookiees) helped play a role in destroying the Death Star. George realized it was too much for one movie, and while not entirely accurate, I think this is where George says he split the one movie into three movies. But instead of inventing a new climax for the third movie, he brought back the natives idea, as well as another Death Star that must be destroyed. So if this is George’s idea, he’s basically done the same thing, but with Palpatine.

Abrams has said they consulted George for this film, which gives some credence to the idea that bringing back Palpatine is somehow related to Lucas. Also, if bringing back Palpatine is an idea that came from George himself, it would give legitimacy to this plot point that could be controversial to some fans. It wouldn’t be the first time fans have been perplexed by George’s ideas (midichlorians, Ahsoka Tano, etc.), but if the man who invented the Chosen One prophecy doesn’t think resurrecting the last Sith undermines that idea, then I think some fans who feel skeptical are more likely to eventually accept it.

I really like her videos, and I think it is a good example of an interesting perspective on the films that we typically don’t see on this forum!

ChainsawAsh said:

RogueLeader said:

That vid actually makes me think of something that would’ve been in Petrovelly’s Star Wars Remastered project.

Did you see the username of the video’s uploader?

Lol. No wonder it looked familiar. 😅

But I do agree that even just replicating the original shots with new CG shots with X-Wing models with unique markings would be a great update for the film.

That vid actually makes me think of something that would’ve been in Petrovelly’s Star Wars Remastered project.

Yeah, I think one of the most common hopes I see people have is that Anakin’s Force ghost will show up. I know some people wouldn’t want that, but I think if Anakin, as a Force ghost, somehow took part in purging the last remnants of Sidious from the galaxy, it would help keep that prophecy/story element from George in tact.

It would actually make a lot of sense. If Sidious was in a corporeal form, and can’t physically be destroyed, it would present a great challenge for Rey, whose physicality is one of her strengths. If she was shown to struggle to tap into her spiritual side throughout the whole movie, and then at the climax she completely let’s go of her own fears and puts all of her faith in the Force, maybe that would be the way she has to defeat Sidious.

I’m going to ramble on somewhat of a theory regarding Force ghosts. In ESB, Obi-Wan tells Luke that he can’t interfere in his confrontation with the Vader, but maybe that is because someone on the spiritual plane can’t physically harm with someone on the physical plane, and vice versa.

I also think it is possible that living Force users have to act as conduits for Force ghosts to manifest themselves, so Force ghosts can’t just appear on their own alone. So imagine Rey being unable destroy the spirit of Palpatine on her own, and in her most hopeless moment, she finally let’s the Force flow through her completely, and suddenly the Force ghosts of Luke, Leia, Yoda, Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon (and Ahsoka?) appear and join forces to try and purge Palpatine’s spirit. Then finally, Anakin appears and delivers the final blow, destroying the last remnants of the last Sith Lord from galaxy.

I know I’m just setting myself up for disappointment, but it could be a good way to tie into Rey’s characterization, make the Force ghost ability that Qui-Gon apparently discovered in Episode I suddenly very important to the overall narrative in Episode IX, and also maintain Anakin’s role as Chosen One.

I think Hal and I both have expressed some concern about it.

I know early on there was a lot of speculation regarding who Matt Smith was/is going to play, because it seemed he was in the movie, then he wasn’t. He still might be, but maybe it is still heavily guarded.

I know there were rumors that he might’ve played a young, rejuvenated Palpatine. I don’t think I’m the only one that has had this theory, but I think it is possible that in an earlier version of the film, Matt Smith played a Sith acolyte that allowed the spirit of Palpatine to possess him, and this would’ve been the person Rey and Kylo would’ve fought in the climax of the film. Maybe we would’ve seen McDiarmid briefly, but only as a spirit that was attached to some kind of object or phylactery, possibly Vader’s helmet. But after the warm reception McDiarmid received at Celebration, they might’ve have changed that to give Ian more screen time, and thus now he appears physically throughout the whole film without a satisfying explanation for those of us who care to know how.

This might be a stretch, but I don’t think it is impossible either. Alternatively, maybe Palpatine was only in physical form, and Matt Smith just played his rejuvenated self, but that was changed in reshoots for the reasons stated above.

I would have preferred the Sith spirit angle, because at least that makes some sense. Hell, at this point I wouldn’t be too upset if they went full-on Dark Empire and said it was a clone vessel. I just don’t understand how Palpatine could have physically survived being thrown down a reactor shaft and then the Death Star’s destruction.

Another possibility (that I’m 90% sure wouldn’t be explained in the film itself) could be that Palpatine was somehow saved by someone who was able to pull him into the World Between Worlds that Rebels introduced. Ahsoka was saved by Ezra in a similar manner, so it’s possible the same thing happened to Palpatine, and since then he has been in hiding in the Unknown Regions, becoming older and weaker, but biding his time for the right moment to return. It feels pretty convoluted to me, but to not even give a semblance of an explanation in the film would be pretty head-scratching to me.

Awesome, I didn’t know this. Thanks, Jay!

Mocata said:

“R2, you’re facing the wrong direction… Can you turn, just, never mind let’s just take the picture”

Do you think the artist thought the back of R2 was actually the front, or what? Artistic choice?

Thanks, Hal. I’m sure there will be a way it can be spun to make sense narratively, but its effectiveness won’t be clear until we actually see how exactly the movie pulls it off.

On an unrelated note, I was trying to get cleaner audio of C-3PO saying his line from the trailer, but I’m having trouble with it. Does anyone think they could do a better job of it?
I do know in this TV spot, 3PO actually says, “I’m taking one last look, at my friends.”