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RogueLeader

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11-Jun-2015
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Post
#1304753
Topic
Worst Ideas in Star Wars/Good Ideas that went Horribly Wrong
Time

I get what you’re coming from but I don’t think they’re the worst ideas, personally.

I felt the Jedi of the prequels were based off Buddhist monks who grow up in the temple and follow of a doctrine of non-attachment. George creating the flaws of this mindset were intentional, and the Jedi fearing attachment was meant to be their downfall.

Pop Culture Detective’s video The Case Against The Jedi Order highlights the problems you mention, but also comes to the conclusion that it was a mistake on Lucas’ part to portray them this way. But like I said, I believe portraying them this way was the point. Maybe the Jedi weren’t always this way, but after countless wars against Sith and fallen Jedi, the Order eventually became more dogmatic in an attempt to avoid that cycle.

Regarding the Force, I think it really depends on your interpretation. If the Force is meant to be taken as a form of religious belief, then the Jedi’s power stems purely from faith, believing in the Force. For Luke in ESB, the idea that he could lift his lightsaber from the snow, or a rock from the ground, is more believable than lifting a large ship from a swamp. Like Yoda says, size matters not. But of course, believing in yourself, or the Force, is still easier said than done, and this ability to let go of control is what separates a student from a master.

Really, the belief in lifting a ship is an extension of Luke believing he could make that impossible shot when destroying the Death Star. He let go and put his faith in the Force, and he did it.

All power in the Force stems from one’s belief that the Force can do anything, and letting go of one’s own preconceptions of what they, and the Force, are capable of. I think the simplicity in this message regarding the Force, which is faith and the power of belief, is what makes Star Wars so universal.

EDIT: Since this is a worse ideas thread I’ll throw out one or two.

I think Jar Jar Binks was one of George’s worst ideas, or at least the execution of it.

I also think Starkiller Base was a totally unnecessary idea. I can live with it but if I could change it I would.

Post
#1304412
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

POTENTIAL JEDI: FALLEN ORDER SPOILERS

Some datamined files from Jedi: Fallen Order over on r/StarWarsLeaks seems to show an image that all but confirms that the Jedi world of Ilum is Starkiller Base. This image appears to be Ilum around the height of the Empire.

Maybe this could be shown on one of the blank view screens in the Emperor’s throne room in ROTJ?

Post
#1304411
Topic
Idea: OT Edits to Fit the PT and/or the Larger Saga (A Resource Thread, Hopefully)
Time

Ben shows no recognition toward R2 and C-3PO. Suggested edit: “Come here my old friend.” Could also cut out Ben saying he doesn’t remember owning a droid, even though it doesn’t technically contradict anything.

Looking back at this and I definitely think this would be the simplest change that would address this issue. If you had Obi-Wan acknowledge R2 while Luke is unconscious, but then pretend to not recognize him or 3PO later on, it can be written off as Obi-Wan just keeping the whole truth from Luke for the time being.

Post
#1304247
Topic
General Star Wars <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> Thread
Time

Duracell, do you mean you were hoping Kylo might’ve been pretending to be bad, like he was undercover or something?

Yeah, I think the term “bleeding” has been a gripe for some people regarding the new lore surrounding Kyber crystals, but I just understand it as a turn of phrase. If you just think of bleeding as “corrupting” a crystal rather than it literally bleeding, it makes more sense.

Post
#1304233
Topic
Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith, Another Happy Sanding. (Released)
Time

Octorox said:

Huh, I actually really like this idea in theory, but without any scenes of Padme and Obi-Wan interacting, I don’t think the implication that she’s talking about Obi-Wan and not Anakin will be as a strong as needed to sell the idea. I’ll think on it.

The crazy thing is, there actually is a deleted scene of Obi-Wan and Padme interacting. And guess what outfit she is wearing?

It’s the exact same one from the other deleted scene, where she talks about wanting to speak with a Jedi she trusts. I used to think she clearly was referring to Anakin in that scene, but based off the fact she is wearing the same costume, she must have really been talking about Obi-Wan. The music in the scene sort of hints at it as well, since the Force theme is more closely associated with Obi-Wan.

Here is this scene in the script:

93 EXT. CORUSCANT-PADME’S APARTMENT-EARLY MORNING
Padme’s apartment building is surrounded by the smog-shrouded city of Coruscant.

94 INT. CORUSCANT-PADME’S APARTMENT-LIVING ROOM-EARLY MORNING
PADME and OBI-WAN sit on one of the couches.

OBI-WAN: Has Anakin been to see you?

PADME: Several times . . . I was so happy to hear he was accepted on the Jedi Council.

OBI-WAN: I know … he deserves it. He is impatient, strong willed, very opinionated, but truly gifted.

They laugh.

PADME: You’re not just here to say hello. Something is wrong, isn’t it?

OBI-WAN: You should be a Jedi, Padme.

PADME: You’re not very good at hiding your feelings.

OBI-WAN: It’s Anakin . . . He’s becoming moody and detached. He’s been put in a difficult position as the Chancellor’s representative . . . but I think it’s more than that. I was hoping he may have talked to you.

PADME: Why would he talk to me about his work?

OBI-WAN studies her.

OBI-WAN: Neither of you is very good at hiding your feelings either.

PADME: Don’t give me that look.

OBI-WAN: I know how he feels about you.

PADME: (nervous) What did he say?

OBI-WAN: Nothing. He didn’t have to.

PADME is a little flustered. She stands and Obi-Wan follows. She walks to the balcony.

PADME: I don’t know what you’re talking about.

OBI-WAN: I know you both too well. I can see you two are in love. Padme, I’m worried about him.

PADME looks down and doesn’t answer.

OBI-WAN: (continuing) I fear your relationship has confused him. He’s changed considerably since we returned . . .

They stand on the balcony and look off at the early morning city. OBI-WAN starts to leave. PADME stays looking off into the distant city.

OBI-WAN: (continuing) Padme, I’m not telling the Council about any of this. I … I hope I didn’t upset you. We’re all friends, I care about both of you . . .

PADME: Thank you, Obi-Wan.

OBI-WAN: Please do what you can to help him.

The fact that scene starts on the couch could help imply we’re jumping in mid-conversation. The sad thing is we may never get this scene, but a part of me hopes that if a Saga movie set comes out next year, maybe they will include some never-before-seen deleted scenes. This seems like it would be a great deleted scene to include, I guess we’ll see though.

A part of me still thinks the movie can work well without the scene, and perhaps even be a strength, but I guess it might be one of those things where you would need to show a first-time viewer and see if they would understand what it is implying. Padme says she wants to speak to a Jedi she trusts, and the next time we see her, she tells Anakin, “[Obi-Wan] came by this morning.”

Post
#1304176
Topic
Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith, Another Happy Sanding. (Released)
Time

Sure! Basically, the idea stems from two issues I had with the movie. First, Padme is heavily underutilized in this movie, and second, the “seeds of rebellion” scenes are not as significant as they seem. Yes, the first two deleted scenes do establish that Padme had meetings with what would become the rebellion, but all it builds up to is her confrontation with Palpatine as part of the “Petition of 2000”, and nothing comes of that meeting whatsoever. She never really seems to contribute to the proto-rebellion in any way. You could argue that Padme represents the last attempt at democracy before the Republic falls apart, but it ends up giving Padme little impact on the movie.

While I have never attempted it, I believe that if you could rearrange the scenes, it could recontextualize her story a lot.

So, chronologically, the first deleted scene we see would be when Padmé meets with Palpatine about the Petition of 2000. Palpatine “reassures” them that he’ll do the right thing, but does not promise that he will make no further amendments. This version would cut the reference to the regional governors, and just refer to more constitutional amendments in general. This scene would occur right after Anakin and Obi-Wan’s conversation about spying on the Chancellor. Both scenes are sunset scenes, so I think they fit pretty well one after the other time-wise. So, Obi-Wan asks Anakin off-the-record to spy on Palpatine, and then he would immediately go back to Palpatine’s office, where he is meeting with Padme on behalf of the Petition of 2000. Palpatine begins sewing doubt in Anakin regarding Padme’s honesty early on in the film.

The next deleted scene would be the meeting in Bail’s apartment. In this scene, the senators discuss Palpatine appointing Regional Governors across the Republic, which goes against the Petition of 2000’s wishes of making no further amendments to the constitution. This can’t go on any longer for them. Now, the “organization” that Bail alludes to more obviously appears to be referring to what eventually will be the Rebellion rather than the Petition, and going forward, everything Padme does is clearly for this new Alliance. The stakes have risen, and they can no long rely on simply democracy in a corrupt system. I do think this scene could be trimmed too, like how Padmé is being a Palpatine apologist, since she would have already seen that Palpatine can’t be trusted.

This scene should take place right before Anakin and Padme’s conversation about the Republic (where Padme is wearing the same outfit). Now, Padme’s hesitation to agree to not tell anyone clearly relates to wanting to talk to Anakin about it. Anakin, having previously been made suspicious by Palpatine, calls out Padme for sounding like a Separatist and snaps at her for pushing the subject. Padme drops it, and realizes that she can’t talk about this with Anakin.

The third deleted scene would be when Padme talks to the Senators about involving the Jedi in their “conspiracy”. The senators are hesitant, but Padme wants to talk to a Jedi she trusts. Originally, this scene ends with Bail telling her to wait, and try to see what the Petition of 2000 can do first, but we would cut all of that and leave the senators thinking on her request, not knowing if they agreed to it or not. This would make the scene rather brief, but I think it is important to keep. This scene would take place after the Opera scene (preferably right after), but before the “Has Obi-Wan been here?” scene between Anakin and Padme. By putting it before that scene, the “Jedi she trusts” would be heavily implied to be Obi-Wan. Plus, since the previous deleted scene established that Padme can’t talk to Anakin about it, it helps support the idea that Padme is getting Obi-Wan involved with the Alliance instead. That connection could also add further rationale for Bail’s connection with the Jedi, since Bail goes the temple immediately after the purge begins, and then goes looking for Obi-Wan and Yoda soon after. It could give the implication that Padme helped establish that connection between the Jedi and the future Rebellion leader.

Also, not having an actual scene where Padme and Obi-Wan meet could be a benefit, because it could put the audience in the shoes of Anakin, giving us the feeling that Padme and Obi-Wan are going behind our (and Anakin’s) back. The “not knowing” could help add some legitimacy to Anakin’s paranoia. In this version of events, Palpatine isn’t wrong about the seeds of doubt he plants in Anakin. Even though they have good intentions, the Jedi and a group of Senators are really making plans against the Chancellor. For obvious reasons, of course, but Palpatine is still technically right. He made them react exactly the way he wanted them to, and now when Anakin sees Padme and Obi-Wan together, it all but confirms to him what we have been seeing throughout the movie. By Palpatine sewing seeds of doubt earlier in the film, as well as giving Padme further motivations, I think it could actually add more perceived subtext to scenes with Padme just by the audience knowing there is more going on behind the scenes. Now everything Padme says could be interpreted in different ways.

To sum it up:

  1. Padme deleted scene #3 after scene where Obi asks Anakin to spy on Chancellor
  2. Padme deleted scene #1 before scene where Padme tries to talk to Anakin about the Republic
  3. Padme deleted scene #2 right after Opera scene (at the very least before Obi leaves Coruscant).
    [Trims throughout to remove any contradictions.]
Post
#1304150
Topic
Idea: OT Edits to Fit the PT and/or the Larger Saga (A Resource Thread, Hopefully)
Time

It is kind of hand-wavy, but sort of like Dom said, maybe Yoda did know Leia would be okay, but he was more concerned with Luke making the wise choice, basically as a way to test him. If Luke couldn’t make the right choice, then maybe he shouldn’t become a Jedi (and Leia should instead once she escapes). Maybe Obi-Wan, knowing who Leia is, couldn’t sense what would happen to her like Yoda could, so he did feel like Luke was their last shot.

Still, the way Yoda says it definitely makes it seem like he is referring to someone Obi-Wan doesn’t know. While “the other” didn’t make sense to me at first, I get why you are suggesting it now.

Post
#1304148
Topic
Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith, Another Happy Sanding. (Released)
Time

Hope we’re not hijacking you’re thread, Octorox, by having this discussion. Just let us know if you want us to move it someplace else.

sade makes a good point that there still seems to be this element dropped where Anakin is suspicious of Padme hiding something from him. Anakin seems to think something is going on between Obi-Wan and Padme (not necessarily romantic), and so when Anakin sees them together on Mustafar, it is like his fears are almost immediately justified, causing him to have such an extreme reaction and choking Padme. This is sort of where I got the idea to restructure the seeds of Rebellion scenes to imply Padme might be meeting with Obi-Wan, “a Jedi she trusts”, about the Rebellion and the conspiracy against Palpatine.

Additionally, I wonder if you could somehow tie Anakin executing Dooku with Anakin not being made a master (maybe the Jedi could review security hologram footage of his death), if that would help solidify Anakin’s views as the Jedi being hypocritical, and just as selfish as the Sith.

Alternatively, you could cut out more of the “Jedi are evil” lines and try to focus more on him just wanting to save Padme and selling his soul for it.

Post
#1304146
Topic
General Star Wars <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> Thread
Time

ray_afraid said:

ZkinandBonez said:

in the new canon even the crystals inside [the lightsabers] have gone from simple rocks to living crystals with force-related powers.

…Really?

Kyber crystals in the new canon are described as having organic properties, and are connected to the Force. So a crystal and a Force-user can be drawn together, almost like magnets. Honestly this isn’t really a stretch from what has been established, Yoda says the Force can flow through people, plants, even rocks.

Post
#1303978
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

This gets into a big philosophical question but Star Wars is simultaneously both a work of art and a product. George wanted to tell interesting stories while simultaneously selling toys. That’s clear from the beginning, when Lucas bargained for full merchandising rights for the first film, which continued into the other films (what is that Lucas quote about Ewoks and Benji?) as well as the prequels. So are you saying the new films are more product and less art than George’s films, which were more art and less product? I think that’s splitting hairs, and a bit unfair to the new storytellers who might being in fact trying to tell interesting stories despite it still being a product.

EDIT: Is there a difference in the apparent legitimacy of the Disney-era films between a scenario where Disney takes Star Wars from Lucas’ cold, dead hands, and Lucas giving Star Wars to Disney with the knowledge they would continue the story without him?

The writer gives a story to another storyteller knowing they will continue that story without him. Is that consent irrelevant to the validity of the stories post-Author?

Post
#1303942
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Well, if interviews with JJ and Kennedy recently are to be believed and Lucas was consulted for IX, then it is possible that he did okay it (it may have been his idea!). That may or may not be true, but it might be worth keeping an open mind until we learn more information regarding the development of the story and how much Lucas was involved. Like I’ve said before, I do wonder if there is a correlation between Lucas’ apparent involvement in the film and Palpatine’s sudden return.

Post
#1303910
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

I kind of like the idea of the Chosen One prophecy, but more so in a way that the Jedi’s obsession with prophecy is one of the flaws of their Order. Anakin being set up as a Christ-figure, only to become an anti-christ, is an interesting subversion of the chosen one trope that you rarely see. The prophecy being ambiguous and open to interpretation makes it far more interesting to me, in my opinion.

Post
#1303907
Topic
RogueLeader's Rogue One Edit (* unfinished project *)
Time

Thanks for resurrecting this thread! I am not sure if you are referring to jarbear’s videos specifically, or my changelist, or both, but I appreciate the thoughts.

I do think I’m going to pull back on a few more radical ideas. I like the idea of using the first-half of the Mustafar scene to set up Vader’s arrival at the end of the battle. Maybe I could give that servant new dialogue regarding Tarkin or the battle. Also, I think it would be helpful to replace Krennic’s shuttle with a regular Imperial shuttle that we see Vader use later in the film in those Mustafar establishing shots. Might be some extra work, but it would be like Vader’s shuttle coming down from the Devastator to pick up Vader and take him to Scarif. Then you could just change the dialogue to, “My lord, your shuttle has arrived.”

Regarding the disk, my original intention was to keep continuity with ANH when Vader says, “Several transmissions were beamed aboard this ship by rebel spies.” The plans being carried physically aboard seems to contradict that. If the viewer had never seen this scene before, I like to think they would still feel tension for the rebels being able to make it off the stranded ship in time, or if the other ship could escape before Vader boards it. But, it seems a lot of people feel the tension would be lost altogether without the disk element, so maybe it is a contradiction we’ll have to live with?

I’m also curious whether or not I should still deemphasize Galen actually “laying a trap” within the Death Star’s design, and if that undermines Luke’s impossible shot at the end of ANH. There seems to be fair arguments for and against.

But really, all these things are not the most important changes I want to make. Instead, it is characterization and dramatic arcs that I want to focus on, but I am still curious if these changes were worth the trouble to maintain continuity with the original Star Wars. Maybe people have better ideas to make the two films more cohesive than I have suggested.

Post
#1303787
Topic
Aalenfae's Star Wars Video Essays
Time

What?! EC Henry IS Aalenfae?? I remember when I first stumbled across the fan editing community here and discovered aalenfae’s edit videos on Vimeo. He had some really great ideas that I think still inspire people on here. I’ve subscribed to EC for a few years now, and discovering that they’re the same person is just mind-blowing.

I don’t think he’s been on these threads since 2016 (I don’t know how I missed this post when he first made it), but it is great to know Aalenfae is still actively creating things (now in the form of his YouTube channel). Now that I know he has a fan-editing background, it would be interesting to hear if he has any new ideas for edits once IX releases.

Post
#1303684
Topic
Star Wars Episode III: Labyrinth Of Evil (Released)
Time

The only idea I can think of to help support the ‘mask’ approach would be to change his appearance anytime Palpatine is disguised as Darth Sidious before the transformation. So when we see him with Maul on Coruscant in TPM, or with Dooku in AOTC, you could either desaturate his skin to be similar to his deformed look, or use deepfake technology to replace his regular face with the deformed face. It would be harder to implement this with hologram appearance (like his conversation with Grievous in ROTS or with Nute Gunray in TPM. Maybe you could obscure his entire face in darkness, or do something similar to what Ady did for ESB:R), but this idea could help make it clearer that Palpatine has always looked like that, but has just hid his true form with his ‘unlimited power’. But for LOE, I think it works fine and is still better than the theatrical, like Dom said. Might be something to consider in future edits though.