RogueLeader

Now that we have the whole Sequel Trilogy, I wanted to re-outline how the Superweapon aspect of Starkiller Base could be removed. Starkiller Base is mentioned briefly one time in TROS, but it could easily be removed I believe. This was arguably one of the weaker, eye-rolling aspects of The Force Awakens, and if a major fan editing project is to be done to the Sequel Trilogy, why not remove this aspect if it can be done? In the past I was concerned with not diverging too much with canon, but I personally would like to see major changes from the canon in TROS, so removing Death Star III from TFA does not seem so bad anymore.

This change would require some new visual effects shots and some voice acting for new OS character lines to provide plot context. I’m going to lay out what I think needs to be done to accomplish this:

First, I think it would be beneficial to delete all of Snoke’s scenes, or at least the last scene where the room is collapsing.

Any establishing shots of the planet need to be replaced with a planet with no trench or laser cannon. (But something still visually distinct). Also add a sizable fleet to its orbit.

Use Restructured’s Act 2 where a Star Destroyer arrives at Takodana.

After Hux gives his speech (remove, “This fierce machine which you have built, upon which we stand.”), we see the First Order fleet jump to hyperspace.

During Act 3 there will be a new scene where the First Order fleet arrives at the Republic capital (perhaps Coruscant). Using cg models and other filmmaking tools, we’ll create a brief battle sequence, which ends with Dreadnoughts bombarding the Senate building and killing Kor Sella and the Chancellor. With this in mind, we could create a brief sequence where Republic fighters escort Kor Sella’s ship to the planet. These scene would be intercut with the battle on Starkiller Base.

When Kylo Ren interrogates Poe, he mentions that they have the rest of the map. (Dialogue taken from Rey’s interrogation).

During the Resistance Base scenes, when 3PO looks at the map, we’ll generate a new line mentioning that the First Order likely has the rest of the map. Something to that degree, at least.

We totally cut the Resistance briefing scene. At this point we will have heard that the First Order has the rest of the map three times (Poe’s interrogation, 3PO’s analysis, and Rey’s interrogation). There is enough information that the audience should pick up what the objective is.

Scenes on Starkiller Base should be regraded to appear as if it is nighttime or twilight.

Cut Finn’s line about the shields during the hyperspace approach, but keep Han’s line about “if we get any higher they’ll see us!”

Cut Han’s line, “Then how do you know how to disable the shields?”

Cut Han’s later line where he mentions the shields again after they enter the base.

Cut Finn’s line to Phasma, “lower the shields!” and change the screen graphics to show the other half of the map. Possibly generate a new shot of data chip popping out of a terminal. Have Phasma trigger an alarm.

Create new ADR for Resistance officers, pilots, and First Order officers mentioning the planetary tractor beam and referring to the oscillator as the tractor beam. Could change the sun draining computer graphic with one related to the tractor beam, something reminiscent to the graphic of Obi-Wan deactivating the Death Star’s tractor beam.

So after they trigger the alarm, the First Order activates the tractor beam, then the Resistance sends in pilots to destroy it so they can escape with the map. Would be nice to have a pilot ask, “Where is their fleet?”

Remove any shots of the sun being drained. The scene of Kylo killing Han, the draining sun will be replaced by a moon, and a Star Destroyer will pass infront of it, mirroring the opening scene of the movie.

Cut any shots of the planet falling apart. Possibly create a new shot of the Falcon and X-Wings leaving the planet.

When they put Finn on the gurney, replace the line “we got a heartbeat” with “He has the map!”

The shot of Leia mourning, have a rebel officer OS say, “We’re downloading the map, now, General.”

BB-8 wakes up R2 to tell him the good news, and 3PO says something along the lines of, “Come, R2 we must find Master Luke at once!” R2 then plugs in somewhere to download the map and then projects it.

If we could create new space battle sequences, I think it would be interesting if this could extended to TLJ and TROS. TLJ could open with Republic fleets being defeated by First Order surprise attacks. And even with TROS, we could open with more ragtag groups ambushing First Order fleets. We could even move one or two of the First Order Star Destroyer destruction shots to the beginning of the film, to emphasize the stakes for the First Order to find an upper hand to the growing opposition.

EC Henry explains in this video pretty well how he made a “space battle” video for Eckhart’s Ladder’s channel. Henry aka Aalenfae also has some great ship models that he shows off on his YouTube channel that would be fun to use. It could show off some more interesting ship designs people felt were lacking from the ST. Angelos Karderinis, also known as Angel, does a lot of the renders for his designs. But Henry has a lot of cool designs that would be fitting for some New Republic vs First Order action, like New Republic X-Wings, Y-Wings, B-Wings, a new Tri-Fighter ship, as well as the TIE-Vector and a First Order Bomber.

It is also more about the story than the reality, and that story spread.

What? It’s a practical effect, he is on set?

And maybe instead of “erase the echoes of the past” it could be “silence the echoes of the past”.

Dr. Krogshöj said:

RogueLeader said:

I think the crawl does not need to mention Palpatine by name at all. Because it makes the reveal not surprising whatsoever. I think it could go something like this:

After Luke’s heroic stand against the First Order, hope began returning to the galaxy and the First Order has expended a lot of resources trying to maintain fear and quell the growing resistance.

Something something about the Resistance.

As the First Order becomes desperate to find a solution to their growing problem, Kylo Ren uses one of Snoke’s old artifacts to find the source of his mysterious power.

I think a crawl in the vein of this could help justify where all of those ships came from at the end.

STAR WARS

Episode IX
THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

The galaxy’s fate hangs in the balance.
Luke Skywalker’s heroic stand on Crait
has inspired countless worlds to stand
up for freedom and push back against
the tyrannical First Order.

To keep the Jedi alive in the wake of
Luke’s sacrifice, young Rey is trying
to contact the spirits of past masters
as she continues her training under
the guidance of General Leia Organa.

Meanwhile, Supreme Leader Kylo Ren
is seeking clues to the mysterious power
of his former master Snoke so he can
turn the tide of war and erase the
echos of the past once and for all…

This is beautiful! I love it.

After learning Palpatine was still alive and manipulating things like he had before, I felt it was a mistake for them to not double down on Rey Nobody. Imagine after all of Palpatine’s planning and machinations, that a total anonymous girl would come in and bring it all crashing down. Palpatine was using Ben Solo as a pawn, just like his grandfather, and someone he could have never predicted showed Ben he actually wasn’t alone.

Luke and Leia knowing who she was, but not telling her, raises so many questions. Are Luke and Leia any better than Ben Kenobi and Yoda manipulating Luke and not telling him the truth about his father? How are they any better than Palpatine, who manipulated a Skywalker to accomplish his goals? Leia had plenty of opportunities to tell Rey, but she didn’t.

There was one shot that I really loved in the movie and keep thinking about. It’s when Rey is entering the Sith temple and it’s this super wide shot of her walking through it, with the dark floor and dark ceiling making her feel tiny in comparison. And during it, we hear the Emperor’s theme play in the background.

While I’m not a fan of Rey Palpatine, I think it would’ve been awesome if at this moment we had heard a version of the Emperor’s theme, but with a female chorus. It would be like the theme for her newfound past and potential future, the power she could have if she gave in.

But John Williams probably finished scoring by the time they changed that in reshoots!

Do you mean the dream you’re adding to TFA: Starlight?

Another vision template we sort of got from TROS was the quick flashes Rey and Kylo shared when he touched Vader’s helmet. I’m thinking if I, or others, were to give Kylo another dark side vision when he prays to Vader’s helmet in TFA, it could follow that ‘quick flash’ format.

I think it would be appropriate if Rey’s vision of Sith Rey has the slow frame rate like the Dagobah cave.

I do think Force-related stuff should play fast and loose with “how it works”, but it would be interesting if Force visions followed a certain format throughout the saga.

Regarding the Emperor, I think the implication is that he’s not giving the throne to another, but he would possess whoever would open themselves to the dark side and kill him.

Shopping Maul said:

I know this is completely off-canon but Palpatine in TROS was, to me, more like an extension of the original TESB Emperor with the monkey-eyes. This version didn’t feel like the Naboo Senator gone bad or even the hammy ROTJ guy to me. The idea of the Sith as this secret cult of gothic sorcerers really worked for me too, even if it doesn’t necessarily line up with what has gone before.

I swear, no SW film has messed with my head-canon more than this one! But god I love it…

Yeah, it is pretty interesting and I honestly like the idea! Though it does raises questions, because now the opera scene has a whole new layer of meaning. In the scene, Palpatine seems a little smug about telling the story of how he killed his master (without Anakin realizing), but if all the Banite Sith are one, how does context change for this line, “Ironic, he could save others from death, but not himself.”

You could argue Palpatine is just manipulating Anakin at this point, but that line in particular seems to mean something to Palpatine. Like there is a glimmer in his eye.

Yeah, it seems like the movie is implying that Sith cultists pulled Palpatine’s broken body from the wreckage of the Death Star, and whatever is left of Palpatine’s spirit is latched onto it. Palpatine is basically a lich, which makes sense if all the Banite Sith are actually just one Sith that possesses apprentice after apprentice.

This is more speculative, but maybe when Vader killed him, Palpatine tried to possess Vader, but failed. Instead, his spirit latched onto Vader’s armor/helmet. In the interim between ROTJ and TFA, Sith cultists retrieved Palpatine’s mangled corpse and the mask of Vader. Through a mix of mechanics, cloning tech and Sith alchemy, they were able to sustain his body enough for Palpatine’s spirit to reanimate it.

ZkinandBonez said:

RogueLeader said:

ZkinandBonez said:

It just occurred to me that one of the funnier coincidences regarding the Rey Palpatine retcon is that now it finally makes sense that a scavenger on Jakku speaks with a British accent. Granted her parents, even if they were genuine “nobodies”, could come from the core worlds, though that seems a little weird for “filthy junk traders” that sold off their own child for drinking money. It doesn’t really matter, but at least the EU writers won’t have figure it out in the future.

Unkar Plutt had a British accent.

That’s true. So much for that idea.

I wonder why they had Boyega do an American accent when they ignore accent inconsistencies in other characters.

I think they went with an American accent for John since stormtroopers typically have American accents. I heard they played around with Rey having an American accent as well, but I think Daisy was more comfortable with her natural accent.

Has someone removed the Snoke hologram scenes from TFA before? Can the movie work without them?

ZkinandBonez said:

It just occurred to me that one of the funnier coincidences regarding the Rey Palpatine retcon is that now it finally makes sense that a scavenger on Jakku speaks with a British accent. Granted her parents, even if they were genuine “nobodies”, could come from the core worlds, though that seems a little weird for “filthy junk traders” that sold off their own child for drinking money. It doesn’t really matter, but at least the EU writers won’t have figure it out in the future.

Unkar Plutt had a British accent.

Regarding poppa’s post about Rey Palpatine:

Honestly, I do think for fan edits that keep that there are some things you could maybe build off of for fan edits. But regarding to the production of these films, I think any connection Rey might have to Palpatine in previous films is purely coincidental. I think JJ set up the mystery box of Rey well in TFA, and if they had gone with Rey Skywalker or Rey Kenobi it would seem as equally as valid.

I believe Rey Palpatine was a decision made in reshoots. Maybe I’m wrong but that’s what I think.

I think it is possible, with a combination of partially new footage, some old footage, and not showing Hayden directly. But I guess it also depends on the context you might want to show him in.

Deloreanhunter12 said:

RogueLeader said:
This is just my own wishes, but I think it would’ve been interesting if they said that the dyad could’ve been a manifestation of that balance. And when Rey, one half of the dyad, died, imagine the spirit of Anakin appearing and bringing her back to life, finally having the power to save someone from death, and restoring the “balance”.

Sorry, I just read this and I think you have nailed it. This would have been a much more fitting end to the trilogy as well as the saga.

I’m glad you like it! At the moment this is what I’m planning to do.

No worries ptrule! But we might get better stuff going forward, and I don’t think it is fair to say it is all objectively bad before we even see what the future has in store. I mean, it is fair to say Star Wars may never be as good as the original films, but it sort of invalidates those fans who like anything beyond those films.

I hope you’re wrong about a Sequel Sequel Trilogy, but I also wouldn’t be too surprised if we did. I think we could get stories set after Episode IX, but I doubt they’ll call them Episode X, etc. If anything, numerical sequels are something Hollywood is trying to avoid in general nowadays.

I’m not really arguing that, but it exists. And people are talking about how it fits in the context of the new films. The fact these movies are 7-9, then it sort of becomes relevant to what the rest of the saga contains. They could’ve not called these new films 7-9, but they decided to make it a part of a 9 film saga. But I get what you’re saying.

EDIT: If they had moved the restoring balance stuff to IX, then it takes the “balance shit” off the OT, making it more like it was before the prequels.

The films seem to imply that balance isn’t permanent.

Luke in TLJ, “For many years there was balance… until, Ben.”
Anakin in TROS, “Rey, restore the balance, as I did.”

Master & Apprentice, a recent canon novel, actually laid out the prophecy itself.

“A Chosen One shall come, born of no father, and through him will ultimate balance in the Force be restored.”

The “through him” piece of the prophecy makes it a little open to interpretation in-universe as well. Could that mean Anakin’s descendants are also responsible for restoring balance? Also, how is ultimate balance different from just balance? And how does the dyad, that TROS introduces, relate to the prophecy, if at all?

I think an interesting theme to have explored would have been that once balance is achieved, it is something that has to be maintained. Anakin brought ultimate balance when he killed the Emperor and brought down the Empire through that act, but future generations would have to maintain that balance. I think this what the ST is trying to imply.

Maybe Anakin didn’t bring balance by killing the Emperor, but saving his son, the last Jedi. Like Lor San Tekka said, “Without the Jedi, there can be no balance in the Force.” The Jedi work to maintain balance, so by saving Luke, Anakin saved the Jedi. So the Emperor living or dying, the Sith existing, doesn’t contradict Anakin as the Chosen One or bringing balance. The prophecy, as canon states, never mentions destroying the Sith. “A prophecy misread”. And to me, the act of saving a life rather than killing one makes more sense to be the way that balance is restored.

This is just my own wishes, but I think it would’ve been interesting if they said that the dyad could’ve been a manifestation of that balance. And when Rey, one half of the dyad, died, imagine the spirit of Anakin appearing and bringing her back to life, finally having the power to save someone from death, and restoring the “balance”.

That is true. At the very least we could add Anakin’s voice saying “Rey” earlier on in the trilogy. I just like the idea that Anakin could be Rey’s guardian [young Anakin voice] angel.

Regardless of Lucas’ opinion on it, I like the idea of a prophecy being misinterpreted. The more I think about it though, I kind of wish bringing balance had less to do with destroying or killing someone, and more about saving or creating something. What if destroying the Sith wasn’t the prerequisite for bringing balance, but the Jedi just assumed that’s what bringing balance meant.

To add to that thought, I wonder if it would make more sense if certain voices like Obi-Wan saying “These are your first steps” to Rey should actually be Anakin trying to commune with Rey. Having Anakin being more active in trying to push Rey toward her destiny could help show how Anakin might be helping restore or maintain balance and fulfilling his apparent destiny as Chosen One. Though I guess it also depends if you maintain that aspect or not.

I do agree that the pace felt way less jarring on the second viewing, too.

NeverarGreat said:

There’s toxicity on all sides. It’s tough to express enjoyment for Star Wars.

Shopping Maul said:

I second this Rogue - I’ve never known you to be anything but reasonable and pleasant. I think we forget how good we have it here (thanks mods!). On that note, happy holidays/life-day everyone and may the Force do whatever your head-canon deems appropriate…

Thank you guys, you’re both awesome! You’re right that there are a lot of varying opinions and when in comes to Star Wars there are always gonna be people who disagree with you about something!

Z6PO said:

Did Rey flew Luke’s X-Wing without an astromech droid?

Yes, but I’m assuming the Wayfinder may have fulfilled that need. Luke also reached Ach-To without an astromech, so either that X-Wing doesn’t need an astromech or maybe both Rey and Luke used the Force to guide them. Or a mix of both.

I’m kind of curious if Ben Solo took an Imperial TIE from the wrecked Death Star, because they don’t have a hyperdrive, right?