That is true! Maybe I’m not crazy about it because I would rather not have the crawl for IX mention him at all, and let his reveal be when Kylo finds him on Exogol. I guess I’d rather push his reveal back than bring it forward. But I think it is fair to test out both ideas though.
Making a Palpatine cliffhanger in TLJ seems to be a popular idea right now, but to be honest I feel like that would be a distraction to the conclusion of that story.
The one thing I do like about the current placement poppasketti and others are attempting is that it basically has the broadcast go out immediately after the death of Luke Skywalker, which seems to be the reason why Palpatine has once again been pulling the strings in hiding. The primary goal of Snoke and the First Order was to destroy Luke, so his radio broadcast could be like a way to announce his return after the death of his last, great threat. Any reveal before that would feel too soon imo.
But, I feel like it does take away from Kylo Ren’s “ascension” a little bit. Kylo Ren literally just became Supreme Leader and then immediately we realize there is another big bad making his way on stage, never giving Supreme Leader Ren a chance to shine. I do like the general foreshadowing throughout the trilogy though. Maybe I just don’t like the idea of ole Palpatine making a whole radio debut!
I posted this on Hal’s thread, should have put it here:
A big picture fix that is improbable but not impossible would be tweaking a few lines about Palp’s resurrection to reframe him as Sith Incarnate, rather than Palp Alive again. In other words, the reason he was brought back was not his own power (he still dies in ROTJ), but the power of the Sith/Dark Side and he operates now as little more than a puppet of the Sith spirits. It is implied enough in the movie (that he was a corpse not a person); I wish he spoke more in terms of “we” like Gollum to hit that home.
The weird thing is, isn’t this the implication from the film? That there is one Sith spirit that possesses one host after the other? I think it is kind of muddied by making Rey a Palpatine and focusing on his bloodline, and trying to say the saga is about the Skywalkers vs the Palpatines. Sheev Palpatine is merely one stepping stone for the past millennia of Sith Lords.
I actually think the idea of replacing instances of “I” with “we” is a simple idea that would help remind the audience of that concept. You just would have to find a good sample of him saying we. I think Palpatine calls Rey “weak” at one point. Maybe that could fit, not sure.
I think the question regarding the effectiveness of the Leia scenes won’t really be answered for another 10-15 years, where a whole new generation who weren’t even around when Carrie was alive can experience these movies without the knowledge of Carrie’s passing during the making of this new trilogy. We’re lifelong fans who consume whatever Star Wars news we come across. How will it be for a first time viewer, or a brand new fan?
I hadn’t even considered that last point! I think there is a lot to chew on with this idea.
You’re right, it is outside the typical scope for a fan edit, but the more and more I think about it, the more I feel compelled to film new material for this movie. But I don’t think it is as impractical as it could be if we can think of clever and efficient ways to portray it. I was already planning to create new shots for TROS, and if any saga film deserves new material to improve it, it is arguably the film that is suppose to tie up this 40-year saga.
Here’s another wacky, radical idea no one asked for, so bear with me.
This is definitely radical in the sense that it would require to shoot new footage. Technically, maybe you wouldn’t have to, but it would add clarity by making the stakes more apparent.
So, in the film it is mentioned twice that the First Order is harvesting more children in order to man the new fleet, but based off what we see in the film, it appears that the fleet is preparing to invade the galaxy within what seems like a few days upon discovering it. How are they using these children exactly? I mean, it will still take years to train and indoctrinate them until adulthood, so my only guess is they mean it will bolster their future army, but bolstering their future army seems less important than the immenent invasion of the Sith Fleet. So, what if these two things could be tied together?
What if, out of desperation, the First Order is kidnapping children and “Lobot”-omizing them? Imagine children with those Lobot head implants manning the bridges of the Sith Star Destroyers, basically acting as living computers to help navigate them out of the Unknown Regions.
So now, the final mission changes from destroying the control tower that they’ll use to help navigate the ships out of the UR, to destroying the tower that is controlling the cybernetic implants on the children. After it is the destroyed, the children would “wake up”, and the Star Destroyers would be dead in the water.
Cons: Like I said, this would definitely require dialogue changes and additions, at the very least to the Resistance briefing and the final battle. I could see a benefit of inserting new characters into both the First Order meeting and the Resistance briefing. Secondly, if you wanted to show the kids you would have to create a few new shots. At least one costume, two to three kid actors, and at the very least a green screen. Luckily I have some younger cousins that I already know would be more than willing to do it, if it ever came to trying it out. But hey, this is the Radical redux thread!
Pros: To me, this could tie everything together really well, plus make for a more compelling final battle. Now their goal goes from “stopping the Star Destroyers” to “save the children”, which becomes challenging for our heroes since the children are on board the ships they want to destroy. Think of how wonderfully this would play into Finn’s arc as well, and add more reason for him and Jannah to work together on this mission. We never got a Stormtrooper rebellion, but this could be the next best thing to help bring Finn’s arc full circle.
Also, it ironically would parallel Episode I, where the objective of the final battle was to destroy the command ship that controlled the battle droids.
Obviously some shots of Star Destroyers being destroyed would need to be changed, but luckily many shots focus on the Resistance destroying the laser canons (not planet-killing laser cannons), rather than destroying the Destroyers entirely. So their actions could be reinterpreted as them disarming the ships rather than destroying them.
I’ll definitely have to wait until I go through the movie again to determine the overall feasibility, but this idea is really interesting to me.
I’m just going to picture you as Doc Brown from now on, if that’s okay with you.
Despite those issues, a lot of women seem to like it. I mean, it’s in the same vein as Pride and Prejudice or Beauty and the Beast. I don’t think it is as simple as “bad man is bad”.
Do you think Rey’s yellow lightsaber should be removed altogether from the final scene in this franchise? She has truly brought balance to the Force, Darth Sidious and his followers have been destroyed once and for all, the Skywalker bloodline is now extinct (no, Rey doesn’t count as a biological Skywalker), and tyranny has come to an end, so the Jedi have already served their purpose and now no longer have a reason to exist.
I think this is a fair question. If this is suppose to be an ultimate victory, then maybe. If you’re stressing that fascism and tyranny can rise when you least expect it and do-gooders have to remain vigilant, then maybe not.
For me, I hate the idea of an ‘ultimate victory.’ I’d like to hope there’s a deleted scene or something that stresses it isn’t that, otherwise I’m still not sure what to do to convey that idea. I saw a clip with JJ before the movie came out where he said something like the fight against the dark side is a constant struggle, so I was really disappointed with how the film concluded. But the fact that he feels that way does give me some semblance of hope that there’ll be something along those lines in deleted material.
Regarding Ben and Rey’s kiss, I think some people didn’t like it because they felt it wasn’t set up. While I think it was (“I offered you my hand once”), I don’t think it was set up as explicitly as Han/Leia or Anakin/Padmé. Both pairs talk about their feelings explicitly, whereas the Ben/Rey romance could be written off as a special connection. According to leaks, in the deleted scene of Kylo Ren’s confrontation with the Oracle, the Oracle would’ve mentioned his feelings for Rey. Maybe Kylo could be given new dialogue that makes those feelings clearer. I’ll have to go through Driver’s filmography and see what kind of dialogue we have to work with.
I’m of the opinion that the romance was obvious, but they definitely wanted it to be a lingering question until the big kiss. I’d definitely prefer an establishment of the fact earlier, if there is a deleted scene that does that like you say.
You just don’t like it when characters live happily ever after.
I think his reasoning is more nuanced than that, man.
Do you think Rey’s yellow lightsaber should be removed altogether from the final scene in this franchise? She has truly brought balance to the Force, Darth Sidious and his followers have been destroyed once and for all, the Skywalker bloodline is now extinct (no, Rey doesn’t count as a biological Skywalker), and tyranny has come to an end, so the Jedi have already served their purpose and now no longer have a reason to exist.
I think this is a fair question. If this is suppose to be an ultimate victory, then maybe. If you’re stressing that fascism and tyranny can rise when you least expect it and do-gooders have to remain vigilant, then maybe not.
Regarding Ben and Rey’s kiss, I think some people didn’t like it because they felt it wasn’t set up. While I think it was (“I offered you my hand once”), I don’t think it was set up as explicitly as Han/Leia or Anakin/Padmé. Both pairs talk about their feelings explicitly, whereas the Ben/Rey romance could be written off as a special connection. According to leaks, in the deleted scene of Kylo Ren’s confrontation with the Oracle, the Oracle would’ve mentioned his feelings for Rey. Maybe Kylo could be given new dialogue that makes those feelings clearer. I’ll have to go through Driver’s filmography and see what kind of dialogue we have to work with.
Would you make her parents ship a different model than the ship we see in TFA? Since it is the same as Ochi’s?
Yeah, I understand the rationale for Ben’s death, but I would still like to see a version where he lives for different reasons too. I think that would be a popular alternate ending for a lot of people.
Someone pointed out how as Ben is holding Rey’s dead body in his arms, he looks around the room as if he is hoping someone, anyone, is there to help. But no one ever shows up. It’s weird how the Force ghosts will talk to Rey but not to Ben.
Yes! That idea with R2 and 3PO is exactly what I want try and do with the end.
Whoa. I’ve heard and seen clips regarding Ben’s death scene, but I had not seen that Rey on Tatooine/Pasana frame comparison. How do you think the final shot was different?
I had heard rumors about the whole gang being there with Rey at the end, but do you think the original ending had Ben and Rey together? I’m confused by all of that.
And RogueLeader, might you post what you’ve got so far with that Han thing?
I’m out of town for a few days so I won’t be able to, but all I did was take Han saying “Huh” from when Rey says, “I bypassed the compressor!”, lowered the volume and had him say it when his face was looking away from camera. I can share it when I get back though.
Maybe if they didn’t waste so much time reintroducing Palpatine they wouldn’t have needed two parts!
Regarding Han shooting without looking, I played with a version where after he made the shot, he looked at the dead trooper and said, “Huh”, like he actually was surprised he managed to do it.
Now that the Saga is done I imagine we’ll start seeing more prequel edits in the coming years!
I think it would be ironic if in future canon material Snoke turned out to be Plagueis’ failed attempts at cloning a host body for himself once he died, so he didn’t have to jump into another apprentice once that time came. But, Palpatine eventually did kill Plagueis and discovered his master’s failed experiments.
Then after Palpatine’s “death”, Palpatine made use of his master’s clone bodies as puppets until he could remove the incorruptible Luke and his Jedi from the picture.
If a clone body can’t host a Force spirit, then it would explain why they just reanimated Palpatine’s own corpse instead of cloning him a fresh body.
I like the idea of Snoke being a puppet, because the imagery is already there. Think of how Snoke moves Rey around like a puppet on a string.
And also, not directly related, but the line, “tied on the end of a string”. Maybe I’m grasping for straws, or should I say strings? There’s also a lot of parallels between Snoke and Oz, the massive holograms, the giant curtain in his throne room. And Palpatine is the Man Behind the Curtain.
If Palpatine used the voice of his apprentice to manipulate young Ben, it’d also make sense for him to use the voice of his master. I think it’s fitting. And to me the line, “I have been every voice you’ve ever heard inside your head” implies that Sidious did in fact control Snoke.
This seems to be a popular idea right now but I’d rather not give Palpatine a Thanos cliffhanger moment in TLJ. I’d like to add more little hints to his survival and machinations throughout the trilogy though.
I think if he keeps Rey Palpatine, he should also keep Ben dying. Although I do want to see an edit that changes both, I can appreciate wanting to make an edit that ends in the same place as the theatrical version.
Yeah, I think I would just remove them from the ending. Especially since it repeats the ending montage of ROTJ.
EDIT: I also think it’d be beneficial if Ben Solo lived in this edit, because what becomes of the First Order after his death might leave the film with too many questions.
I wanted to post this here instead of Hal’s new Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant thread because I feel it might be beyond what he is wanting to do, but I wanted to speculate on some ideas regarding this edit thought he has:
Seemed weird to me that once he turns to the Light Side, Kylo doesn’t take advantage of his role as supreme leader. Research of mine indicates that the emperor sensed this and put General Pryde in charge at that point. If a deleted scene is presented to this effect it would be welcome. The existing scene doesn’t make this clear.
I wonder if the ending could be somehow altered to where a part of the First Order fleet actually came to help the Resistance. At the very least a new shot could be generated to where we see First Order ships arrive and start attacking the Final Order (rolls eyes) ships.
A more ambitious idea might be to have the “people’s fleet”, as Hal put it, arrive at the same time as the Resistance fleet. Then, when things are looking dire, the First Order arrives and actually helps the Resistance. The First Order arriving to help the Resistance would also parallel Kylo arriving to help Rey. This would require a lot of changes, but I could see how this would make the final battle feel more epic, and differentiate it from ROTJ more. It also appeals to me because it lends itself to theme of reunification and peace rather than just blatantly “destroying the enemy” like how ROTJ ended.
Yeah, this would require a lot of new visual effects shots and other alterations, but just imagine this kind of ending… the children of the Old Republic coming together to defeat the man who brought it down.
I like your edit ideas! A lot of them are similar to my initial thoughts.
Regarding how to tie the civilian fleet to Luke’s sacrifice, maybe someone over the comms could say, “For Skywalker!” I believe someone may have made this suggestion earlier.
I have the game but I haven’t gotten this far into it. Let me look at some playthroughs and see what I can find. I assumed this shot was the initial approach to the planet, since it has the title card on the bottom.
EDIT: Apparently when you return to the planet after you beat the game, the trench is visible in the approach cinematic.
This video shows the difference at the 0:45 mark.
Regarding Starkiller Base, I think it would be interesting to use “Ilum” from Jedi: Fallen Order, which is Starkiller before the laser was built. Still having that trench could help make it clearly be Starkiller, but now the implication could be that the First Order just mined the planet for resources.
