Agreed, I wanted to see a kiss and more in the film too. I just wish they talked to their feelings more than, “I will find you and turn you to the dark side.” and “Your Palpatine’s granddaughter.”
For some reason I picture their first scene going like,
Kylo: …your hair is different.
Rey: Same hair…
This is an interesting idea!
Some ideas popped into my head regarding what could be implemented from TROS, but honestly less might be more, depending on how much you cut from TFA and TLJ. I think putting the TROS montage of the Star Destroyers in between Leia saying “We have everything we need” and broom boy is enough really.
For the titling, you could just make it, STAR WARS: HEIR TO THE JEDI - Part I & II.
Yeah, I think the scene could’ve used an extra line, like Finn saying, “If we fire one good shot down the barrel of that cannon, it’ll overload!”
Then when we see his guns melt, we know that what he is doing is pointless by that point.
The person who started the whole thing with Boyega was a sock who pretends to be a female reylo fan to start shit, apparently. They’re on their third account now still trying to start shit, obviously Reylos in general don’t support that behavior. Also, a lot of Reylos are in fact women of color, so calling Reylos racist is really hypocritical and generalizing. They’re putting a whole group of fans in a bottle and saying they’re toxic. Not saying they’re not Reylos who say bad shit but I feel like they’re a scapegoat for both alt-right trolls (like that white supremacist guy who openly encourages John Boyega and antis to keep messing with Reylos), and the crazy cancel culture people on the left. “If I think it’s problematic, no one is allowed to like it.”
Just spoke with my sister and brother-in-law about the film, and they both felt the kiss felt out of left field. It’s so funny to me because I really felt the romantic vibes in TLJ.
For people who want to cut the kiss, that’s fine. But I definitely think if you want to keep the kiss, their feelings for each other need to be set up more. Either the Oracle mentions it or you change Kylo’s mask dialogue. Maybe both. Man, this movie…
Mauler seemed like a jerk but he actually harasses other YouTubers? Patrick H Willems and Jenny Nicholson are nice people, so is MovieBob. I don’t see why he feels he has to attack other people like that. It seems like he has his own issues and the only way he can deal with them is to project onto others and bully other people. I wouldn’t want give a person like that any views.
I know Nicholson has been getting shit for defending Reylos recently. Poor Reylos, man. They’ve been getting so much shit since, well, TFA, but especially since the Boyega tweets. People obviously have a lot of personal issues these days, and the only way they can feel better about themselves is to bully other people online.
I want to switch directions a little and talk about the First Order.
Over the years we have played around with how to portray the faction. Were they a faction hiding in the Unknown Regions, slowly rebuilding and biding their time?
After the whole “Final Order” thing with TROS, this is a route that I feel would work well for the trilogy, and be the least “complicated”.
I think the First Order should be portrayed as a faction that is composed of Imperial Remnants that have banded together under a new leader, Snoke, and funded by sympathizers and industrialists. Maybe the New Republic and the First Order are in a middle of a Cold War, but the Republic is unaware of Starkiller’s existence. And the Resistance is literally that, a resistance movement within First Order space.
After TFA, the First Order begins their invasion of the Republic, but word has yet to spread about Starkiller’s destruction, so most worlds back down under the threat of total destruction. The Resistance is desperate to get the word out and restore hope in a galaxy paralyzed by fear, but their allies either don’t believe them or they’re too afraid to take that chance. The First Order would likely do anything they can to deny it.
But after Luke takes a heroic stand against the First Order and the Resistance continues to fight, hope begins to return to the galaxy as they realize the First Order isn’t a strong as they appear. As the First Order tries to quell these uprisings, their resources slowly begin to dwindle. The First Order is losing.
Now we get into TROS. I personally don’t like the idea of the Final Order. I mean, the idea isn’t necessarily bad, but it so little explored or elaborated on in the film that I don’t think it is worth even keeping.
I think the set up could be more like this: the fleet we see on Exogol is a hidden fleet created by the Emperor during the Galactic Civil War. The Exogol Star Destroyers look like the ISD-Is, which were apparently replaced by the ISD-IIs between ANH and ESB. So maybe the Emperor decommissioned the ISD-Is and sent them to Exogol as a contingency, and between ROTJ and TFA they were modified by the Sith Cult under the command of the undead Emperor. So the Sith Troopers and all that are just new First Order units rather than a part of the “Final Order”, which any mention should be cut from the movie.
So, the crawl could mention that Kylo Ren is searching for a Sith Cult who protect the lost fleet of the Emperor. You could even mention that the Knights of Ren were on a quest to find them, to explain their absence in 7 and 8. Maybe they found a clue to their existence, which is what starts Kylo’s journey in 9. So the Emperor’s survival will not be mentioned in the crawl.
So securing resources is the primary motivation of the First Order, while Kylo’s could be to destroy the last remnants of the Sith, as part of his “let the last die” mantra. This would also have the added benefit of clarifying that the natives Kylo is killing at the beginning of 9 are Sith Cultists, ones who follow Darth Vader in particular.
This is a lot of detail, by I think this could be consolidated well in the crawl. You could simply say Kylo is looking for the source of Snoke’s power, but I think mentioning the fleet (as the Emperor’s lost or secret fleet) would be a clearer way to tie it into the First Order’s motivations and the stakes. I think mentioning the Sith Cult would be beneficial too, if it wouldn’t be too crammed with information.
Just to summarize, I think it would be better to differentiate the First Order from the “secret fleet” that we’re introduced to in Episode 9. So the First Order doesn’t operate extensively in the Unknown Regions, and they’re a more straightforward faction. Whereas the Sith Cult and the hidden fleet are the “hidden faction”, preferably not referred to as “The Final Order”.
EDIT: I like your thoughts about the Rey healing Kylo shot reorder Idir!
That is true, at least with Baby Yoda it clearly took a lot out of him to perform certain abilities. But then again, he is a baby.
Yeah, I also didn’t pick that up. Carl Weathers’ character in The Mandalorian had a fatal wound but Baby Yoda was still able to heal him. It’s my opinion, but I think as long as a person is still breathing, a Jedi can heal them from even fatal wounds, but once they’re dead they can’t. That’s it. Ben bringing Rey back to life was an exception made possible by their bond.
The Prequel-era Jedi weren’t able to do heal others because they weren’t aware of the ability at the time, or their ability to use the Force were diminished at that time.
I don’t necessarily agree with that. I think the idea of draining life and healing it ties in well with the themes of selfishness and selflessness, which are central to the Saga. I think what is unique to the Dyad, though, is the ability of resurrection.
In the prequels, Anakin had a vision that Padmé would die. To him, that meant her dying was inevitable, and he needed a power beyond just healing.
And just because others have not used this ability in the films beforehand doesn’t mean it didn’t exist. Perhaps it was a technique lost and was rediscovered by Rey in the ancient texts. Or, the waning and waxing of the Force’s strength over generations has an effect on people’s ability to perform it.
And regardless if you cut the power out of IX, it won’t change the fact that Baby Yoda uses the power in the Mandalorian. And maybe he can do it because it is a child, and children have been shown to have an innate connection to the Force, just like the Dyad is shown to have in IX.
If anything they won’t do it now because of the hashtag drama rather than any real conspiracy by the making of the film.
But the reality more likely will be that if there isn’t any deleted scenes, it is because many of them were related to plot points that were changed in reshoots, just like Rogue One. So maybe a part of it is because they don’t want to give people a major insight on how the story changed during production, it’s not because they’re hiding a “secret cut” of the film.
Thanks for brainstorming. If you removed any healing at all before Ben resurrects Rey, then I think it would feel out of left field, because nothing before that point would’ve shown Ben had that ability.
Since we see Rey use the power twice, and once on Ben himself, we can assume Ben learned how to do it too, just like Rey learned how to influence minds when Kylo tried to force Rey to show him the map in TFA.
I do think some more set up to elements in TROS would be nice, though. For example, I think it would be interesting if there was more set up to the Dyad concept. Kylo says, “Dyad” in TFA, and you probably can make Snoke say, “Dyad” somehow too, or if you dub him like you suggested. I think the dubbing idea you have could also be useful for the Oracle, if we get that deleted scene, and depending on its dialogue. Too early to say I guess.
Well that’s just the thing, though. If we went with the idea of using subtitles for Snoke, it would play out in the trilogy as an important part of Kylo’s sith journey. The idea of force healing would be referenced a few times in every film, recontextualizing Palp’s quote in RoS to make more sense than just being a reference. If done right, then Kylo using the ability at the end of the film would feel like a payoff, finally showing us the ability and showing him using something he acquired from his evil to do good. The power that has been teased since Anakin early in the saga is finally used in the climacting moment of the series.
Totally just an idea, though! I always love reading your input on this forum. I can’t wait to see what type of deleted material we get to use for this film.
That is a good point! I had an idea about giving Kylo a vision when he speaks to Vader’s helmet in TFA. It could go well with dubbing Snoke, or on its own if we can’t get that to work, but in a vision you could insert flashbacks or lines regarding “cheating death”, either from Palpatine or Anakin. So when Kylo says, “I will finish, what you started.” The implication might be that he is trying to learn that power.
And thanks for saying that!! I really like your perspective on things too. It’s funny because I’ve been waiting so long for IX so we would have the whole picture of what we have to work with, but I guess we still have to wait for the deleted scenes to see the whole whole picture. 😂
Thanks for brainstorming. If you removed any healing at all before Ben resurrects Rey, then I think it would feel out of left field, because nothing before that point would’ve shown Ben had that ability.
Since we see Rey use the power twice, and once on Ben himself, we can assume Ben learned how to do it too, just like Rey learned how to influence minds when Kylo tried to force Rey to show him the map in TFA.
I do think some more set up to elements in TROS would be nice, though. For example, I think it would be interesting if there was more set up to the Dyad concept. Kylo says, “Dyad” in TFA, and you probably can make Snoke say, “Dyad” somehow too, or if you dub him like you suggested. I think the dubbing idea you have could also be useful for the Oracle, if we get that deleted scene, and depending on its dialogue. Too early to say I guess.
Nev, you’re one of my favorite people on these forums and I think you’re super talented. I hate how TROS deflated your enthusiasm a bit, but I totally understand. Take as much time away from Star Wars as you need to, either to move on to other things, or to come back with some fresh ideas. I don’t know how you come up with half the things you do, but I can only begin to imagine what ideas you could come up with for future endeavors.
I’ve felt pretty deflated after TROS as well and if it makes any fixing we do pointless, but honestly I’m regaining a bit of that optimism as time goes by. Once the DVD comes out and we can break down the movie and any deleted scenes we might get, it might give us a better idea on how far we can really push that film. You might not ever be interested in messing with it yourself but I hope you stick around to provide some insight!
Now regarding Starlight.
The BB-8 scene. If you can’t get that to work, I wonder if you could revisit the idea about giving a line to Kylo that could segue right into Finn “rescuing” Poe? Since Kylo’s “I leave that to you” line was removed, maybe Kylo could say something like, “Kill the pilot.” Then we cut directly to a Stormtrooper escorting Poe, presumably to his death, but then it turns out to be Finn.
If you can’t get Rey’s pre-interrogation dream to work, maybe you could use one shot of the island, maybe the one from the original island/desert mirage, then it just hard cuts to Rey waking up. Brief but simple.
EDIT: This might be weird, but what if you just dropped that original ReyDream idea into this moment as the dream sequence?
It cuts to black on Leia, then fades back in on the establishing shot of Rey’s AT-AT home. She’s having a dream that’s back on Jakku (where she wants to go). She’s sitting there wearing the pilot helmet when she starts seeing the island mirage, and then suddenly it hard cuts to Rey waking up in the interrogation. Maybe you could have some VO of Rey saying something like, “Waiting for my family. They’ll be back. One day.”
I do get what people are saying regarding the climax and the Hosnian restructuring. I really like how you’ve done it and I do think you should keep it that way. Back in December I actually showed my dad both versions, and I also think he responded more to the one-two punch of Han’s death and the Hosnian destruction. But I think out of many of the changes you’ve made throughout your edit, this is one I feel really deserves playing around with more.
Honestly it is sort of vague-looking. It is basically dark Rey but with white eyes like Palpatine’s. And I think she is sitting on the dark throne but I think it is a midshot. Plus, it is literally a quick flash, basically a few frames.
To me it looks like it was Frankensteined together in post rather than shot with that intention. Plus, it is only Rey, and not Rey and Kylo together, as they described the vision in the film.
Is the oracle scene the one where we see the vision of Rey and Kylo on the throne? Because that was referenced several times in the final film and surely seems like something we should have seen, right?
I’m still not really sure where that vision fits, but I don’t think the leaks mentioned the Oracle giving Kylo a vision. I could be wrong though.
The one thing I worry about regarding not getting the Oracle scene would be that whatever his lines were related to plot threads that don’t exist in the theatrical film. I don’t think they will release deleted scenes that reference plot points that were later changed.
I’ve seen that! Thanks for bringing that up Darth Lucas!
To summarize:
I think the reverse shots could use some work to make them feel slightly different and less obviously reversed, like the way Ben’s hand moves on the back of Rey’s head (maybe you could just mask his hand out in that shot). I think you would need to rearrange the shots of them looking at each other a little differently too to try and sell it more. But Rey Kenobi’s version does have a clear sequence of events and maintains Ben’s act of selflessness, with his mother giving him one final gift.
I like the idea of Leia intervening in some way (either for Ben or Rey) because it reminds me a little of the Mortis arc from Clone Wars. Towards the end of that arc, Ahsoka dies, but The Daughter offers what was left of her own life Force to save her, but Anakin was necessary to act as a conduit for the life Force to be transferred.
So in this version of the film, it could play out similarly. Leia, the “daughter” of Anakin, gives what little of her life Force still lingered in this world to bring Rey back to life, with Ben, the grandson of Anakin, acting as a conduit like Anakin once did.
But you would get a similar idea whether she helps save Rey or Ben, I think.
Others are saying it is not true, but I guess we should keep up with the new today and see what else is said.
Lot of that arts look so good… what do you guys think the deal is with the floating ash that Kylo observes?
This might be a weird idea. I recall the Exogol scenes being pretty blue, or at least having a blue hazy tone. What if we regraded it to have a more neutral tone, or give it a monochromatic, almost black and grey look, to emphasize this Sith throne world as a world of literal darkness. And later when Rey/Kylo use their sabers, they’ll really stand out well against the blackness.
What do you have in mind?
I sent you a PM.
Ben can revive Rey and live because dyad. There. Problem solved.
So you don’t think people would question the logic at all? At the very least the Leia idea gives us a good reason to keep Leia becoming one with the Force in the same place without having to have Ben die as well.
That’s true! You could actually leave the shots in the same order, and not have to meddle with the soundtrack at all. Really, all you would need to do is add a line like, “We can still save her” to make it clearer that Leia played a role in saving Rey, and providing enough of an explanation as to how Ben also survived the process.
Then you can cut away before Ben’s smile begins to fade. Later, Rey and Ben can then meet up on Tatooine. And I have a practical idea for how to achieve that without shooting any new footage.
Hmm, would it involve using footage of Ren on Pasaana? That’s the thought that occurred to me recently.
It’s not what I had in mind, but that’s definitely an option. I’ve seen a few fan alt. endings on YouTube that reuse footage of Kylo on Pasaana, so that might be the simplest option.
That’s true! You could actually leave the shots in the same order, and not have to meddle with the soundtrack too much. Really, all you would need to do is add a Leia line like, “We can still save her…” to make it clearer that Leia played a role in saving Rey, and providing enough of an explanation as to how Ben also survived the process.
Then you can cut away before Ben’s smile begins to fade. Later, Rey and Ben can then meet up on Tatooine. And I have a practical idea for how to achieve that without shooting any new footage.
Honestly too I think having Anakin’s hand involved would just be kind of unintentionally funny, considering the romantic nature of the scene (and somewhat undercut the hand-taking throughline of their relationship).
Okay, fair enough! I just laughed out loud imagining it with that in mind and I see your point! 😂
What do you think of the Leia idea instead?
Just had another, simpler idea for this issue. What if during that moment of Ben trying to heal Rey, we cut to Leia’s body disappearing back at the Resistance base? The implication could be that a little bit of Leia’s life Force was still in this world, like when she communed to Ben through a vision of Han, but she gave that little bit of life left to ensure Ben wouldn’t die in the healing process. Would that be too vague? Maybe we could hear Leia whisper something to Ben?
Dom, I think you were trying to figure out what to do with that shot earlier. Maybe this could be where it goes. I know that originally the idea was putting Leia’s body disappearing right after the Ben and Han scene to imply it was Leia communicating to Ben. Maybe we could keep that implication by Ben hearing Leia say “Ben” after he throws his saber, which is what prompts him to turn around and look for the source of the voice. You could take the line from where she says “Ben” earlier, during Rey and Kylo’s duel. Maybe you could also use “Son”, then you could use “Ben” and “Son” interchangeably between the two scenes. Though I think that moment of Ben sensing her mother’s death might work better without her saying his name, since it also felt like Leia was trying to distract Ben so Rey could get the upper hand. Without her saying something, it might seem like he is just sensing it on his own.
EDIT: Leia does say, “We can sill save him” in TFA during her conversation with Han. Maybe when Ben is hugging Rey’s body, we could have Ben hear Leia say, “Son, we can still save her”, or “You can still save her”